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Troy Davis executed

post #1 of 39
9/21/11 at 8:47pm
Thread Starter 

Apologies if I missed a thread but nothing came up in search.

 

No mention of this around here? Or are my American chewer friends pretty much inured to southern states executing innocent black men these days?

 

 

 

Quote:

Media representatives who witnessed the execution have just made public statements, explaining that it was a sombre event, but Troy Davis remained defiant until the very end and maintained his innocence.

One journalist explained that Davis spoke to the family of the victim and said despite the situation, he was not the one who killed Mark Macphail. Davis said he was not personally responsible for what happened that night, that he did not have a gun but that he was sorry for their loss

“I did not personally kill your son, father and brother. I am innocent,” said Davis.

Just before he was killed by officials, he turned to them and said: “For those who are about to take my life, may god have mercy on your souls, may god bless your souls”.

http://www.crikey.com.au/2011/09/22/an-innocent-man-set-to-be-executed/

 

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post #2 of 39
9/21/11 at 8:51pm

Not inured. Just whipped. The US Supreme Court gave me a brief glimmer of hope, but it was faint and it was brief.

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post #3 of 39
9/21/11 at 10:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rain Dog View Post

Apologies if I missed a thread but nothing came up in search.

 

No mention of this around here? Or are my American chewer friends pretty much inured to southern states executing innocent black men these days?

 

 

 

 


Inured? No, but hardly surprised; we're talking about the part of the country that fought a bloody five-year war to keep generations of black Americans permanently enslaved and stripped of all human dignity. A form of slavery unique to the history of the world: based on race and inherited at birth. Those values are not American values, and it is my government's continuing solemn obligation to correct in the people and institutions of the American South these deficiencies of character and conscience

Know Australia does not stand alone in her objection to today's possible state sanctioned murder

PS To southerners: obviously there are plenty of patriots and modern thinkers in the south, but today's events speak for themselves, that a southern governor wouldn't have cause to fear for his job were he to potentially execute innocent people
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post #4 of 39
9/21/11 at 11:45pm

I simply cannot reconcile an advanced civil society in 2011 with the death penalty. Maybe there can be some adjustments to the law.

 

I don't know if there are any death penalty proponents here but I have this question. Say, if a man that was executed is after the fact proven to be innocent, would they be OK with the death penalty being imposed on the judge and the DA if it is found that there was a miscarriage of justice in the case?

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post #5 of 39
9/22/11 at 12:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelios View Post

I simply cannot reconcile an advanced civil society in 2011 with the death penalty. Maybe there can be some adjustments to the law.

 

I don't know if there are any death penalty proponents here but I have this question. Say, if a man that was executed is after the fact proven to be innocent, would they be OK with the death penalty being imposed on the judge and the DA if it is found that there was a miscarriage of justice in the case?


And what of the prison workers who carried it out? Surely they would be guilty of something too, by that logic
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post #6 of 39
9/22/11 at 12:27am

Why not? If a society decides that an eye for an eye is something they believe in, go all out. Fuck all that post-enlightenment sissy shit. 

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post #7 of 39
9/22/11 at 3:47pm

A site that's worth checking out:

 

"The Innocence Project has obtained the exonerations of 273 wrongful convictions since 1992, including 17 who were serving time on Death Row.

70% of those exonerated were members of minority groups."

 

The Innocence Project


R
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post #8 of 39
9/22/11 at 5:09pm

Come on, Kate. Your distates of anything south of New Jersey is well known.  The governor of the state of Georgia doesn't have the ability to commute sentences or to pardon. That is constitutionally placed in the hands of the Georgia State Board of Pardons and Paroles.

 

 

Quote:

In August 1943 Georgia voters ratified, by a ratio of four and a half to one, a landmark amendment to the State Constitution. It established in that document the Parole Board's authority to grant paroles, pardons, and reprieves, to commute sentences, including death sentences, to remit sentences, and to remove disabilities imposed by law. It was given a staff of parole officers to investigate cases and supervise persons granted parole.

The Constitution provided that the Governor would appoint the Board members to seven-year terms subject to confirmation by the State Senate. Once confirmed, members would be insulated from political pressures by the fact that no one official could remove them from office until they completed their terms. Their autonomy was enhanced by their right to elect their own chairman annually.

 

That being said... check out http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/documents/FactSheet.pdf

 

It is a pretty comprehensive fact sheet.

 

States that have executed someone in 2011:

Texas 11
Virginia  1
Oklahoma 2
Missouri  1
Alabama  4
Georgia 4
Ohio  4
S. Carolina  1
Mississippi  2
Delaware  1

Arizona  4

 

5 of those are not Southern states and I don't really know if you can count Texas. Texas is Texas. Ohio executed more people last year than everyone but Texas and is four-way tied for 2nd this year.

 

 

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post #9 of 39
9/22/11 at 5:31pm

Goddamn, Texas loves frying motherfuckers.

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post #10 of 39
9/22/11 at 6:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarence Boddicker View Post

Goddamn, Texas loves frying motherfuckers.


The joke is "You kill us, we kill ya' back."

 

 

I hate that joke.

 

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post #11 of 39
9/22/11 at 6:25pm

Fuck this country.

 

ETA - "this country" referring to the one that applauds executions during presidential debates. I know a lot of you are from some (hopefully) more evolved societies. Or you would be, if evolution was real.

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post #12 of 39
9/23/11 at 7:38pm

Texas, you cold, cold bastards.

 

     http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-15034970

     Texas jails abolish last meals after uneaten banquet

The abolition followed a complaint by Texan Senator John Whitmire, who called the meal privilege "inappropriate".

Senator Whitmire, a Democrat and chairman of the state Senate Criminal Justice Committee, threatened to introduce legislation if the last meal offer was not withdrawn.

"Enough is enough," he said. "It is extremely inappropriate to give a person sentenced to death such a privilege. It's a privilege which the perpetrator did not provide to their victim."


Edited by SeanCE - 9/23/11 at 8:29pm
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post #13 of 39
9/23/11 at 8:19pm

I wonder how many of you have done your homework on this case?

 

 

Quote:
For decades, liberals tried persuading Americans to abolish the death penalty, using their usual argument: hysterical sobbing.

Only when the media began lying about innocent people being executed did support for the death penalty begin to waver, falling from 80 percent to about 60 percent in a little more than a decade. (Silver lining: That's still more Americans than believe in man-made global warming.)

Fifty-nine percent of Americans now believe that an innocent man has been executed in the last five years. There is more credible evidence that space aliens have walked among us than that an innocent person has been executed in this country in the past 60 years, much less the past five years.

But unless members of the public are going to personally review trial transcripts in every death penalty case, they have no way of knowing the truth. The media certainly won't tell them.

It's nearly impossible to receive a death sentence these days -- unless you do something completely crazy like shoot a cop in full view of dozens of witnesses in a Burger King parking lot, only a few hours after shooting at a passing car while exiting a party.

That's what Troy Davis did in August 1989. Davis is the media's current baby seal of death row.

After a two-week trial with 34 witnesses for the state and six witnesses for the defense, the jury of seven blacks and five whites took less than two hours to convict Davis of Officer Mark MacPhail's murder, as well as various other crimes. Two days later, the jury sentenced Davis to death.

Now, a brisk 22 years after Davis murdered Officer MacPhail, his sentence will finally be administered this week -- barring any more of the legal shenanigans that have kept taxpayers on the hook for Davis' room and board for the past two decades.

(The average time on death row is 14 years. Then liberals turn around and triumphantly claim the death penalty doesn't have any noticeable deterrent effect. As the kids say: Duh.)

It has been claimed -- in The New York Times and Time magazine, for example -- that there was no "physical evidence" connecting Davis to the crimes that night.

Davis pulled out a gun and shot two strangers in public. What "physical evidence" were they expecting? No houses were broken into, no cars stolen, no rapes or fistfights accompanied the shootings. Where exactly would you look for DNA? And to prove what?

I suppose it would be nice if the shell casings from both shootings that night matched. Oh wait -- they did. That's "physical evidence."

It's true that the bulk of the evidence against Davis was eyewitness testimony. That tends to happen when you shoot someone in a busy Burger King parking lot.

Eyewitness testimony, like all evidence tending to show guilt, has gotten a bad name recently, but the "eyewitness" testimony in this case did not consist simply of strangers trying to distinguish one tall black man from another. For one thing, several of the eyewitnesses knew Davis personally.

The bulk of the eyewitness testimony established the following:

Two tall, young black men were harassing a vagrant in the Burger King parking lot, one in a yellow shirt and the other in a white Batman shirt. The one in the white shirt used a brown revolver to pistol-whip the vagrant. When a cop yelled at them to stop, the man in the white shirt ran, then wheeled around and shot the cop, walked over to his body and shot him again, smiling.

Some eyewitnesses described the shooter as wearing a white shirt, some said it was a white shirt with writing, and some identified it specifically as a white Batman shirt. Not one witness said the man in the yellow shirt pistol-whipped the vagrant or shot the cop.

Several of Davis' friends testified -- without recantation -- that he was the one in a white shirt. Several eyewitnesses, both acquaintances and strangers, specifically identified Davis as the one who shot Officer MacPhail.

Now the media claim that seven of the nine witnesses against Davis at trial have recanted.

First of all, the state presented 34 witnesses against Davis -- not nine -- which should give you some idea of how punctilious the media are about their facts in death penalty cases.

Among the witnesses who did not recant a word of their testimony against Davis were three members of the Air Force, who saw the shooting from their van in the Burger King drive-in lane. The airman who saw events clearly enough to positively identify Davis as the shooter explained on cross-examination, "You don't forget someone that stands over and shoots someone."

Recanted testimony is the least believable evidence since it proves only that defense lawyers managed to pressure some witnesses to alter their testimony, conveniently after the trial has ended. Even criminal lobbyist Justice William Brennan ridiculed post-trial recantations.

Three recantations were from friends of Davis, making minor or completely unbelievable modifications to their trial testimony. For example, one said he was no longer sure he saw Davis shoot the cop, even though he was five feet away at the time. His remaining testimony still implicated Davis.

One alleged recantation, from the vagrant's girlfriend (since deceased), wasn't a recantation at all, but rather reiterated all relevant parts of her trial testimony, which included a direct identification of Davis as the shooter.

Only two of the seven alleged "recantations" (out of 34 witnesses) actually recanted anything of value -- and those two affidavits were discounted by the court because Davis refused to allow the affiants to testify at the post-trial evidentiary hearing, even though one was seated right outside the courtroom, waiting to appear.

The court specifically warned Davis that his refusal to call his only two genuinely recanting witnesses would make their affidavits worthless. But Davis still refused to call them -- suggesting, as the court said, that their lawyer-drafted affidavits would not have held up under cross-examination.

With death penalty opponents so fixated on Davis' race -- he's black -- it ought to be noted that all the above witnesses are themselves African-American. The first man Davis shot in the car that night was African-American.

I notice that the people so anxious to return this sociopathic cop-killer to the street don't live in his neighborhood.

There's a reason more than a dozen courts have looked at Davis' case and refused to overturn his death sentence. He is as innocent as every other executed man since at least 1950, which is to say, guilty as hell.

 

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Ann Coulter in case you were wondering.  But that knowledge probably brings some of you back to fawning over a cop killer regardless of the "evidence".

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post #14 of 39
9/23/11 at 8:39pm

How is posting her unsourced quote "doing your homework"? I also love the way she positions "the media" as if she isn't the media. She's the fucking media as well, Tzu.

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post #15 of 39
9/23/11 at 9:01pm

RainDog, all the action was on Facebook. My feed blew up with articles, petitions, phone call pleas in the days leading up to his execution.

 

If you haven't read Troy's message "To All", you should.

 

And on the heels of Davis' death, shit like this happens. White guy who admitted to a murder and was found with physical evidence connecting to the crime vs. Black guy who had no evidence connecting him to the crime and unreliable eye witness testimony. Guess who's still alive.

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post #16 of 39
9/23/11 at 9:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TzuDohNihm View Post
 
Blah blah blah

 

1. Killing people is wrong. And killing someone for killing is not justice, it's vengeance.

 

2. You should look up the work of Elizabeth Loftus*. Eye witness testimony is generally unreliable. Perceptions are affected by all sorts of things. Studies show that people see and hear things that didn't actually happen by just manipulating subtle things in the context, or asking them about something else before hand.

 

*Or read this: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/dna/interviews/loftus.html

 


 

 

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post #17 of 39
9/23/11 at 9:15pm

Well, I'm kinda borderline South. By that, I mean I live just slightly below the Mason-Dixon Line. (Racism, unfortunately, exists everywhere.) I know it's more rampant in the South. I'm not proud of that fact (who the hell would be?). But we are a part of the United States. My thinking is...if people up "North" didn't think racism is all from the South, maybe they'd understand the South is sadly, as a rule, in the bottom tier when it comes to education. A lot of places, rural places at that, are obviously less populated. Therefore, there's less exposure to other races. Point being, we're all one country. Lincoln kept this Union together, but it's all our jobs to spread awareness--b/c America itself has lagged behind in progress as a whole. It wasn't ultimately the South, even though it played a part, that killed this man (and there was tons of reasonable doubt)...it was the Supreme Court--an AMERICAN institution.

 

PEACE

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post #18 of 39
9/23/11 at 9:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanCE View Post

Texas, you cold, cold bastards.

 

     http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-15034970

     Texas jails abolish last meals after uneaten banquet


Barbarism. What is next? No blankets or toilets for those on death row? Just revolting..
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post #19 of 39
9/24/11 at 3:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TzuDohNihm View Post

I wonder how many of you have done your homework on this case?

 

 

 

Ann Coulter in case you were wondering.  But that knowledge probably brings some of you back to fawning over a cop killer regardless of the "evidence".



Dude, the guy's guilt or innocence is completely not the point. At least for me. No one should be getting the death penalty. That's the point.

 

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post #20 of 39
9/24/11 at 6:58am


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by stelios View Post





Dude, the guy's guilt or innocence is completely not the point. At least for me. No one should be getting the death penalty. That's the point.

 



That would be you co-opting the point. The original post was definitely about innocence/guilt.

 

I'm much more concerned with how terribly our society treats the massive number of people jailed for victimless crimes, and how horribly we treat people after they have served their time and are supposed to be due a second chance. The treatment of that small percentage deemed so irredeemable as to never be allowed back in society? Not high on my list.

 

In this particular case, I'd be wary of executing anyone based on eyewitness testimony. It should definitely take a higher standard of proof to enact an irrevokable punishment.

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post #21 of 39
9/24/11 at 9:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanCE View Post

Texas, you cold, cold bastards.

 

     http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-15034970

     Texas jails abolish last meals after uneaten banquet


The final meal in question was for that sack of shit that dragged James Byrd to his death.

 

So, you know, fuck that guy right in his eye.

 

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post #22 of 39
9/24/11 at 9:49am

Rules for avoiding the blind wrath of Texas justice:

 

1) Don't be poor.

 

2) If you're gonna be poor, for God's sake don't be black.

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post #23 of 39
9/24/11 at 10:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben W View Post




The final meal in question was for that sack of shit that dragged James Byrd to his death.

 

So, you know, fuck that guy right in his eye.

 


They're bitching he didn't eat a final meal? I don't care who it was. The lack of an appetite is, under the circumstances, perfectly understandable
 to any normal person

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post #24 of 39
9/24/11 at 10:27am

Maybe we should just Human Centipede the death row inmates. Issue resolved! 

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post #25 of 39
9/24/11 at 10:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TzuDohNihm View Post

I wonder how many of you have done your homework on this case?

 

 



A sourceless article from a hate monger. Check mate! Well played, sir. You showed those bleeding hearts. 

 

 

 

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post #26 of 39
9/24/11 at 2:14pm

To be fair, neither side seemed particularly interested in sourcing their statements.

 

It's impossible to tell where the truth lies when everyone talking about the case has such clear agendas.

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post #27 of 39
9/24/11 at 3:59pm
Thread Starter 

Fuck, I love living in a world where the idea of the state murdering its own citizens being utterly repugnant is 'an agenda'.

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post #28 of 39
9/24/11 at 5:21pm

When nobody can discuss whether this particular man was innocent or guilty without heavily filtering it through their opinion on his punishment, yes, that's an agenda.

 

If he had been sentenced to life w/o parole, how many of these people would've given a shit? Would you?

 

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post #29 of 39
9/24/11 at 6:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben W View Post

The final meal in question was for that sack of shit that dragged James Byrd to his death.

 

So, you know, fuck that guy right in his eye.

 


Doesn't really matter what he did. If you're being murdered by the state, even if you're the worlds worst human being, you should still be allowed a final meal.

 

To stop anyone else, after this guy didn't eat it, is pathetic. Bunch of screaming babies. "I had to go and get all this food, urghhhhhh and he dosn''t eat it! Fuck that guy and fuck alls the rests of yous toos!"

 

 

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post #30 of 39
9/26/11 at 2:24pm

An Indefensible Punishment:

 

Quote:
When the Supreme Court reinstituted the death penalty 35 years ago, it did so provisionally. Since then, it has sought to articulate legal standards for states to follow that would ensure the fair administration of capital punishment and avoid the arbitrariness and discrimination that had led it to strike down all state death penalty statutes in 1972.

 

As the unconscionable execution of Troy Davis in Georgia last week underscores, the court has failed because it is impossible to succeed at this task. The death penalty is grotesque and immoral and should be repealed.

 

The court’s 1976 framework for administering the death penalty, balancing aggravating factors like the cruelty of the crime against mitigating ones like the defendant’s lack of a prior criminal record, came from the American Law Institute, the nonpartisan group of judges, lawyers and law professors. In 2009, after a review of decades of executions, the group concluded that the system could not be fixed and abandoned trying.

 

Sentencing people to death without taking account of aggravating and mitigating circumstances leads to arbitrary results. Yet, the review found, so does considering such circumstances because it requires jurors to weigh competing factors and makes sentencing vulnerable to their biases.

 

Those biases are driven by race, class and politics, which influence all aspects of American life. As a result, they have made discrimination and arbitrariness the hallmarks of the death

penalty in this country.

 

For example, two-thirds of all those sentenced to death since 1976 have been in five Southern states where “vigilante values” persist, according to the legal scholar Franklin Zimring. Racism continues to infect the system, as study after study has found in the past three decades.

 

The problems go on: Many defendants in capital cases are too poor to afford legal counsel. Many of the lawyers assigned to represent them are poorly equipped for the job. A major study done for the Senate Judiciary Committee found that “egregiously incompetent defense lawyering” accounted for about two-fifths of the errors in capital cases. Apart from the issue of counsel, these cases are more expensive at every stage of the criminal process than noncapital cases.

 

Politics also permeates the death penalty, adding to chances of arbitrary administration. Most prosecutors in jurisdictions with the penalty are elected and control the decision to seek the punishment. Within the same state, differing politics from county to county have led to huge disparities in use of the penalty, when the crime rates and demographics were similar. This has been true in Pennsylvania, Georgia, Texas and many other states.

 

So far, under this horrifying system, 17 innocent people sentenced to death have been exonerated and released based on DNA evidence, and 112 other people based on other evidence. All but a few developed nations have abolished the death penalty. It is time Americans acknowledged that the death penalty cannot be made to comply with the Constitution and is in every way indefensible.

 

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post #31 of 39
9/26/11 at 2:40pm

 

Indeed, a reading of his judgement indicates that by not calling two of its recantation witnesses (one was waiting in the courthouse to testify and the other, the homeless man who was beaten, was readily available), the Davis defence team was preserving something they knew would damage his case in court if tested but if left intact could be of publicity value. There has never been a scintilla of evidence that Davis's race has ever been a factor in his initial conviction or in it being upheld.

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post #32 of 39
9/26/11 at 2:49pm

I'd like to think, after the Willingham debacle in Texas, and all the people that have been cleared by DNA evidence, that the US will be done with the death penalty in the near future.  But I'm not holding my breath.

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post #33 of 39
9/26/11 at 3:34pm

That Telegraph article Tzu linked has more sourced facts about this case than any other I've seen in the thread. It makes it clear to me that this case is an awful one for people trying to connect it o anything involving the murder of innocents. It is highly likely that the only innocent killed in this case was killed by Troy Davis.

 

Starting your anti-death-penalty case off with a faulty premise ("He was -clearly- innocent!") doesn't help your argument.

 

Compared to 1975, the US jails more than 5x as many people (per-capita) than we used to (thanks, war on drugs!). 48% of those in state prison and ---92%--- of those in federal prison are non-violent offenders. 70% of prisoners are non-white. The US has <5% of the world's population, but >23% of the world's prison population.

 

If you want to campaign for reform, why not start there? Why begin with the most contentious issue that affects about 40 people a year, instead of the other 2.3 million inmates?

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post #34 of 39
9/26/11 at 4:36pm

Because some people really find the death penalty morally repugnant? Like I know you don't really regard it as a big deal in the scheme of things, but a lot of people feel kinda uncomfortable with the idea of the state taking somebody's life. Even more so in an era where we've become even more aware that new evidence can always be found, cops have bias of their own, and witnesses can be unreliable.

 

Did Troy Davis murder somebody? I don't know, he might have. But if he was even if he just got life in prison there was a greater chance he could eventually clear his name, or stay locked up without any chance of seeing the outside world again. But with him dead? That's never going to happen, and if by some chance we find out somebody really screwed the pooch? It'll mean somebody innocent got dead at the state's hands.

 

I really don't think it's that hard to see why people care fucking deeply about this.

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post #35 of 39
9/26/11 at 4:45pm

There are lots of groups fighting for prison reform and ending the unequal jailing of people of color compared to Whites. At the same time, studies have found that people respond better when you can put a face to the issue. It's easier to latch on to a Troy Davis, than the millions of unnamed masses jailed each year. I also think because people being put to death is so rare, it puts a spotlight on the justice system when the death penalty is put to use. Personally, I think the Rockefella Drug Laws are some of the worst on record, and have personally lobbied my legislators to end them. And while my thread on Lindsay Lohan's troubles is mostly in jest, I often document her offenses in comparison to her crimes to show how she consistently flaunts the law and gets away with it. Whether its her celebrity status or not, she is privileged in ways that the average person is not and it is a slap in the face of our justice system every time a judge lets her escape jail time. Just thinking about what she's gotten away with makes me furious. I digress. Our justice system is a joke. But that doesn't mean that people can't rally behind one cause (eliminating the death penalty) because there are other ones as well. It's hard to get past the barbaric nature of the death penalty. For a country that prides itself on being "enlightened", this is a huge blemish.

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post #36 of 39
9/26/11 at 5:06pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaurenOrtega View Post

Because some people really find the death penalty morally repugnant? Like I know you don't really regard it as a big deal in the scheme of things, but a lot of people feel kinda uncomfortable with the idea of the state taking somebody's life. Even more so in an era where we've become even more aware that new evidence can always be found, cops have bias of their own, and witnesses can be unreliable.

 

Did Troy Davis murder somebody? I don't know, he might have. But if he was even if he just got life in prison there was a greater chance he could eventually clear his name, or stay locked up without any chance of seeing the outside world again. But with him dead? That's never going to happen, and if by some chance we find out somebody really screwed the pooch? It'll mean somebody innocent got dead at the state's hands.

 

I really don't think it's that hard to see why people care fucking deeply about this.



I love that this actually needs to be fucking spelled out for some people.

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post #37 of 39
9/26/11 at 5:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farsight View Post

...It is highly likely that the only innocent killed in this case was killed by Troy Davis.

 

"Higly likely" is circumstantial evidence.

 



 

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post #38 of 39
9/27/11 at 7:43am

I worked as a corrections officer in the Ohio Department of Corrections for a few years when I was younger. Prison is no fucking joke. You want to really punish someone don't kill them just lock them up. Believe me the gruesome shit that goes down in lock up makes you sick. It made me sick enough to quit my job. The Death Penalty is a lose lose proposition in my mind. It ends the suffering of the guilty that need punished and removes the possibility of exoneration for the truly innocent.

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post #39 of 39
10/1/11 at 10:09am
I object to capital punishment on the grounds that it's more expensive than lifetime incarceration, it doesn't seem to be much of a deterrent, and there's always the possibility you have the wrong guy. This isn't hysterical sobbing. I object to the death penalty even though it makes the Ann Coulters of the world feel all righteous and just and rock-ribbed and flag-wavey. I don't care about their feelings, they can whine about liberals all they want.

But I think it's great that someone's trying to commit emotional blackmail using an Ann Coulter piece. Good luck with that.
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