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Mise en abyme

post #1 of 33
9/26/11 at 8:31am
Thread Starter 

 

So I discovered a literary/film term today (while reading an academic journal on Lost) that got me very excited: mise-en-abyme. Wikipedia can explain it better than I...:

 

 

'Mise-en-abîme occurs within a text when there is a reduplication of images or concepts referring to the textual whole. Mise-en-abîme is a play of signifiers within a text, of sub-texts mirroring each other. This mirroring can get to the point where meaning can be rendered unstable and in this respect can be seen as part of the process of deconstruction. The film-within-a-film is an example of mise-en-abîme. The film being made within the film refers through its mise-en-scène to the real film being made. The spectator sees film equipment, stars getting ready for the take, crew sorting out the various directorial needs. The narrative of the film within the film may directly reflect the one in the real film.

In film, the meaning of "mise en abyme" is similar to the artistic definition, but also includes the idea of a "dream within a dream". For example, a character awakens from a dream and later discovers that he or she is still dreaming. Activities similar to dreaming, such as unconsciousness and virtual reality, are also described as "mise en abyme". This is seen in the film eXistenZ where the two protagonists never truly know whether or not they are out of the game. It also becomes the prominent plot in Synecdoche, New York. A more recent instance of this can be found in the film Inception.'

 

You'll have to pardon me if this is old hat, but I'm an amateur (but life-long) cinephile and tend to stumble upon these concepts by accident. I'm a voracious reader, however, and love running into concepts in film reviews I don't recognize and looking them up and applying them to pop cultural texts in my life. I'd heard of mise-en-scene before, although it's apparently a term that is up for debate. 

 

So what are the best examples of mise an abyme you've encountered, and the worst?

 

The play-within-a-play aspect of Hamlet is especially prominent in critical theory, in how the mirroring aspects play on one another. Scream 3, however, comes to mind with a film-within-a-film structure that does not take full advantage of the potential for commentary. 

 

In a bit of a rush right now, more later...

 

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post #2 of 33
9/28/11 at 8:21pm
Thread Starter 

Alright so no one jumped in to get the ball rolling, figure I will.

 

My favorite example might be from Inglorious Basterds. As the Nazis are watching a propaganda film in which one of their own is slaughtering American soldiers, American soldiers barge in and start shooting up the Nazis.

 

There was a lot of discussion about this in the post-release discussion, but I love how Tarantino gives us a fist-pumping moment (who wouldn't fill Hitler with holes?) while indicting us for reveling in the violence. When I was watching the movie in the theater, I realized the Nazi audience was mirroring my own audience.

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post #3 of 33
9/29/11 at 1:06pm

First, let me applaud you for another very smart post and thread start. This stuff is seriously great.

 

Second, I wish I had something smart to add, but I don't. I'm blanking out on films I've seen and that I can remark on somewhat intelligently that feature this sort of device. THE STUNT MAN comes to mind, as it definitely has the film-within-a-film going, but it's been literally decades since I've seen it. You mention INGLOURIOUS BASTERDS, but also mention what I would have brought up.

 

I think it could be said to be in play in THE MATRIX (if you disregard the second and third films). Also possibly DARK CITY, but it's been a while since I've seen that and can't say with certainty it's part of the club.

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post #4 of 33
9/29/11 at 2:18pm

I wonder if you could count GROUNDHOG'S DAY in this. He's certainly doing something similar to dreaming if he keeps waking up to the prior day. Maybe he's a man who keeps waking up from a dream within a dream. He's an example of what happens when you get stuck in limbo, it's not the same for everybody.

 

Or FORREST GUMP as he watches Elvis do the dance that he showed him, or the many times Forrest is in past, real-life footage. 

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post #5 of 33
9/29/11 at 2:47pm

Let's go into some Verhoven!

 

Total Recall.  Is Quaid living in his pre-ordered movie life?

 

Starship Troopers.  How do the clips from the Federal News Network inform the story of Rico?

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post #6 of 33
9/29/11 at 3:02pm
Would Coppola's split second cameo as a (news) director who's screaming directions at the soldiers on the beach in Apocalypse Now count?

[must..think..harder..dammit]
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post #7 of 33
9/29/11 at 3:20pm

Art's mention of Coppola reminded me of Lost in Translation where Anna Faris is pretty clearly supposed to represent Cameron Diaz promoting Charlie's Angels with Giovanni Ribisi playing a Spike Jonze figure.

 

I don't know if it applies to the thread though...

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post #8 of 33
9/29/11 at 3:26pm
A-ha! Shadow Of The Vampire! A film about the making of a (real) film, who's subject, in the film's reality, is what the film is portraying. Whew!
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post #9 of 33
9/29/11 at 3:35pm

And that reminds me of Morgan Spurlock's recent film: Pom Wonderful Presents: The Greatest Movie Ever Sold

 

A film about Morgan Spurlock going around trying to find sponsors to fund a film which tries to explore that very topic.

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post #10 of 33
9/29/11 at 3:37pm
Stardust Memories applies here, I think. Most if not all scenes in that film are taking place in the protagonist's mind, and filmgoers saw so many similarities with Woody Allen that they berated him for hating on his fans. (something which Woody vehemently denies).
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post #11 of 33
9/29/11 at 3:43pm
292
A film about a madman who hires a small army to pull a steamship over a mountain, directed by a madman who actually hires a small army to pull a steamship over a mountain. The movie is practically a documentary of the making of a movie that is a documentary of the making of a movie that is....
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post #12 of 33
9/29/11 at 3:52pm

BOWFINGER!?

 

Chubby Rain as a complete confirmation of Kit Ramsey's Mind Head beliefs!

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post #13 of 33
9/29/11 at 6:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Decade View Post

292
A film about a madman who hires a small army to pull a steamship over a mountain, directed by a madman who actually hires a small army to pull a steamship over a mountain. The movie is practically a documentary of the making of a movie that is a documentary of the making of a movie that is....

...that was then the subject of a documentary (Burden of Dreams).
120
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post #14 of 33
9/29/11 at 10:06pm

Gods and Monsters is a fictionalized adaptation of the final days of the real life director of the the real life adaptation of the seminal work of science fiction, Frankenstein.

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post #15 of 33
9/29/11 at 10:34pm
Robert Altman's The Player

Tim Robbins plays a studio exec who mistakenly murders a screenwriter after receiving threatening postcards & eventually gets away with it. In the final scene, a triumphant Robbins is on a conference call with a screenwriter who pitches a film about a studio exec who murders a screenwriter after receiving threatening postcards & gets away with it. Robbins asks what the name of the picture is, "I'm calling it The Player" says the screenwriter.
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post #16 of 33
9/30/11 at 3:13am
I haven't seen it, but from what I've read, I suspect ADAPTATION belongs in this thread.
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post #17 of 33
9/30/11 at 3:26am

UNFORGIVABLE.

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post #18 of 33
9/30/11 at 6:22am

Believe me, that's among the least of my sins re: revered films I haven't seen.

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post #19 of 33
9/30/11 at 6:50am

The implication of The Ring is that you die seven days after watching it.

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post #20 of 33
9/30/11 at 10:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelM View Post

Believe me, that's among the least of my sins re: revered films I haven't seen.


Actually, I was directing that UNFORGIVABLE towards myself for not thinking of it.

 

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post #21 of 33
9/30/11 at 11:05am
Would The Tree Of Life count here? The early development of a child is a micro-examination parallel of the macro-development of the universe & life itself?
Edited by Art Decade - 9/30/11 at 2:03pm
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post #22 of 33
9/30/11 at 1:57pm

DEMONS:   A movie that takes place in a movie theater full of people watching a movie about people transforming into demons.  Said movie theater is soon itself overrun with people turning into demons.  One of them symbolically rips right through the movie screen as if jumping from film to "reality."

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post #23 of 33
9/30/11 at 2:01pm

Rubber. 

 

A movie which follows the exploits of a serial killer tire which is followed by an audience watching said exploits from afar in the desert.

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post #24 of 33
9/30/11 at 8:42pm

Would The Last Action Hero fit in here?

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post #25 of 33
10/1/11 at 3:46am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by The K Man View Post

Would The Last Action Hero fit in here?



For all it's criticized, Last Action Hero fits the criteria very well. Not only are there movies within a movie, but those movies comment on the movie we're watching. The role of the action hero is examined (Stallone in Terminator 2), the celebrity (Schwarzenegger himelf at the movie premiere), and scenes in the "real world" that directly mirror scenes from the "movie world" (Ah-Nuld can't shoot straight in the real world, hurts his hand punching through glass).

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post #26 of 33
10/1/11 at 4:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Decade View Post

Robert Altman's The Player
Tim Robbins plays a studio exec who mistakenly murders a screenwriter after receiving threatening postcards & eventually gets away with it. In the final scene, a triumphant Robbins is on a conference call with a screenwriter who pitches a film about a studio exec who murders a screenwriter after receiving threatening postcards & gets away with it. Robbins asks what the name of the picture is, "I'm calling it The Player" says the screenwriter.


That the first thing shown is the clapboard starting the first scene in this thing, I'd say it's a perfect representation of mise en abyme.  The movie you're watching is the one they're talking about at the end.  So, in effect, the movie you're watching is just *implied*.  No....wait....

 

Also, never better Julia Roberts and Bruce Willis cameos.

 

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post #27 of 33
10/2/11 at 10:08am
A couple more come to mind:

Bewitched, where Nicole Kidman plays Samantha the witch who plays "Samantha" in an adaptation of the TV show.

The French Lieutenant's Woman, where Meryl Streep & Jeremy Irons play actors who are filming a movie adaptation of the titular book & whose burgeoning romance mirrors that of the film's characters.
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post #28 of 33
10/2/11 at 2:26pm

No one has mentioned Drive yet!

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post #29 of 33
10/3/11 at 6:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Decade View Post

The French Lieutenant's Woman, where Meryl Streep & Jeremy Irons play actors who are filming a movie adaptation of the titular book & whose burgeoning romance mirrors that of the film's characters.


Similarly, Tristram Shandy: A Cock and Bull Story: a movie about a movie within a movie that is struggling to get made.

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post #30 of 33
10/4/11 at 12:52pm

I don't know if this counts, but I adore how the old school opening cartoon of WHO FRAMED ROGER RABBIT is actually the beginning of the movie, as it's revealed to be filmed on a set with "actual actors", setting up the world-building immediately.

 

INCIDENT AT LOCH NESS is a great mockumentary about a documentary (HERZOG IN WONDERLAND) about filming a documentary (ENIGMA OF LOCH NESS). Is Penn's obsession and manipulation a commentary on Herzog as a director?

 

Would the BACK TO THE FUTURE series count, especially part 2, as we actually revisit scenes from the first film (albeit it from different POVs) through Marty 2? It's not film-within-a-film as originally posted, but it is revisiting events that couldn't be without time travel, the premise of the film.

 

What about "girl visits magical land" stories as seen in WIZARD OF OZ, ALICE IN WONDERLAND, PETER PAN, MIRRORMASK, etc, where it's a bit more ambiguous if she's actually gone there at all. The film version of OZ definitely includes dream analogs of her life in Kansas and her journey and friendships help her learn the value of her home-life, Alice learns the value of rules, Wendy learns the value of sneaking out the window to spend time with homeless delinquents , etc.


Edited by DARKMITE8 - 10/4/11 at 1:03pm
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post #31 of 33
10/16/11 at 12:00pm
Thread Starter 

Adding another layer to this thread, I was contemplating today what I like to call "the serpent eating its own tail". This is the point in a film franchise that surpasses perfecting the formula (that would be Friday the 13th Part IV) and starts looking inward, becoming a movie not just about movies but about itself.  

 

Friday the 13th Part VI: Jason Lives is a good example of a movie that is more concerned with being a Jason movie than a film itself. This is actually my favorite of the Jason films, and I'm not criticizing as the Fourth Wall Breaking aspects are what elevate the whole endeavor into something special.

 

The majority of the scenes in the film have a commentary or critique element on not just the nature of violence in, and status in society of, horror films in general but Friday the 13th films specifically: Jason himself has become a super-zombie, heightening the silly elements of the immortal mortal slasher. The teens are all ironic, aware of where and when they are and yet indifferent (ten years before Scream). The cops, by contrast, are actually very active and competent, dismissing the oblivious police of most other Slasher films while also showing Jason (who kills them all) to be that much of a threat. Tommy Jarvis, meanwhile, fills the role of the fan, as he keeps track of the (somewhat conflicting) continuity and his vested interest is the only thing bringing Jason back against ridiculous odds. 

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post #32 of 33
10/16/11 at 12:50pm

I'd submit that Rocky IV is an example of franchise eating it's own tail & puking it out as red, white, & blue. The original film's intimate, unglamorous, & character focused "underdog made good" story is reappropriated & refurbished with a high-budget, Reagan-esque sheen & used as Anti-Commie propaganda-lite on the bullhorn of the Rocky phenomenon.

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post #33 of 33
10/19/11 at 1:55am

Inspired by the Funniest Films of the 90s thread!

 

GALAXY QUEST.

 

Former stars of an old sci-fi adventure series become real heroes when an alien civilization inspired by the 'historical documents' make contact with them to help defeat an evil intergalactic warlord.  Their once make-believe roles are now a reality.  The film makes sure that every member of the cast fulfill their silly purpose on the show and become heroes as a result.

 

A loving tribute to Star Trek, its fans, and the cliches and conventions of TV shows. 

 

Sam Rockwell spends most of the movie dreading his eventual red-shirt demise.  His character wasn't important enough for a last name.  He's the guy that dies so that the audience knows the situation is serious.  He doesn't want to remain on the ship because he might be the crewman that dies while the group is away.  Just as quickly, he changes his mind because he could be the guy that gets killed by some monster five minutes after they land on a planet.

 

http://www.cynthiajoylevi.com/alpha/test/GuyFleegman.gif


Edited by mcnooj82 - 10/19/11 at 2:42am
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