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Wall Street Protests and the Media Blackout - Page 8

post #351 of 456

Carolla's take...not surprised he completely missed what the movement is about.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJD8pZiRIzs&feature=player_embedded

post #352 of 456
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambler View Post



What's happening in Europe?  I'm not being snarky, I'm curious.


Austerity the banks controlling even more? Collateralized Debt Obligations going through the roof.

 

post #353 of 456
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambler View Post

Carolla's take...not surprised he completely missed what the movement is about.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJD8pZiRIzs&feature=player_embedded



My fav youtube comment:

 

 

Quote:

Wtf... Adam Corolla's rant has nothing to do with the privatization of wall street firms.. he doesn't discuss anything about toxic mortgages, credit default swaps, collateralized debt obligations... he doesn't mention one thing about how Wall Street firms privatize their gains and socialize their losses via taxpayer bailouts.. he doesn't even confront the fact that our politicians are bought and paid for by Goldman Sachs Inc. All he does is rant pointlessly about hippies occupying the plaza....

 

 

post #354 of 456

The elite and their thoughtless followers (sometimes without even knowing it) do their best to flame and disparage those they disagree with. Usually they have no facts or a foundation for their opinions or facts.

 

People are more aware then ever (not always focused on the right issues mind you) and thats a great thing.

post #355 of 456


You don't understand my position because if you did, you'd know that the incredible corruption is a given.  I don't know how many times I have argued about this with people because everyone seems to like to point their fingers at Washington and say, They're the problem!  They're corrupt!  What no one ever does is look in a mirror.  Where were you over the past 30 years while of this was being put in place?  What were you doing to fight this implacable rise of corporate power to the dominant point it enjoys today?  What have you done to start untangling the traps that have been so skillfully set for anyone who even contemplates serving in office?  Are you aware of what those traps are?  Are you aware of what the solutions are?  Are you involved with people or organizations that are working on untangling those traps?  

 

Let's start with elections.  Federally, we are stuck with a two-party system, for now (there are ways to change that but all of the Obama haters on the left seem to have no interest in finding out how).  This is a fact.  If you vote for anyone other than a Democrat, you are voting for a Republican.  Period.  Next, we come to campaigns.  You need at least a million dollars to run a congressional campaign today, probably 10 million to run a Senate campaign and a billion to run for President.  Why is that, you ask?  Because regardless of your ethics, if you don't get on TV, if you don't have a ground game, if you can't hire staff, you can't get elected -- especially post Citizens United wherein even if you have that, you can be outspent by corporate dollars and voted out by an electorate barely paying attention (just ask Alan Grayson and Russ Feingold).  Now, there's a way to change this inevitability but, again, people seem much more interested in pointing out corruption in Washington than realizing that it didn't get this way in a vacuum--it got this way because we let it happen.  And also again, people are only now starting to come around to realize what can be done to fight this. 

 

Now, we move on to Washington itself.  Every day in Washington is a repulsive orgy of corruption.  Lobbyists--the richest people in the Beltway--are wining and dining virtually anyone who is on any congressional or senate committee in a position to help their clients.  This happens all day every day.  Why?  Because to raise the kind of cash it takes to run for reelection, you need to rub elbows with these monsters and cretins, and there is a quid pro quo because if you take the money and don't do their bidding, they will primary you.  This is Grover Norquist's power over those idiots in the GOP who signed his stupid pledge.  Anyone who doesn't sign or speaks out against it will get primaried, and Norquist has huge money behind him.

 

This is the reality of our political system today.  This is what happens to any form of government if the people let it.  The price of democracy is awareness and involvement.  People have to be aware of what's going on, they have to know what's happening in the news, they have to know how they're being represented, and yet, and yet... we have allowed the media to consolidate into monopolies, we have stopped paying attention, and we have stopped voting.  Turnout is only something like 20-30%.  People are either disinterested, misled by the idiotic corporate media, or too busy trying to feed their families to pay attention, or too brainwashed by Fox or Limbaugh to really understand anything. 

 

So, all of this is what we're up against.  I'm an optimist and I believe that the worm will turn, and sooner rather than later, but you have to understand what you're dealing with and how it got there before you can fix it.  You can't just point and shout Corruption!  You can't "blame Washington."  I know a lot of lefties think we need to throw this system out and start afresh.  Tea Partiers think that too.  Whatever you came up with would be corrupted in short order.  Money finds a way.  It's true in science and technology, it's true in moviemaking, it's true in politics.  Democracy is a great system, but it requires constant engagement with it -- because money never takes its eye off the ball, never. 

 

So, given all of this, we have two choices:  Republican and Democrat.  If you want even a ghost of changing any of the above on a federal level, vote for a Democrat.  If you think you're being ideologically pure, then you better spend every waking hour working for public financing of elections, instant run-off voting, and an end to corporate personhood--three great places to start.   You can't choose not to do anything yourself and expect Obama to singlehandedly fix Washington when half the people in the U.S. don't understand what needs to be fixed.  Hell, most people still think the "irresponsible" poor caused the financial meltdown.  It took 40 years to get to this place; it's not going to change overnight, and it's not going to change without the public understanding what needs to be changed and working to change it. 

 

ETA: This is a subject that pisses me off to no end, so apologies for the over-the-topedness of my rant.

post #356 of 456
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Daywalker View Post


Austerity the banks controlling even more? Collateralized Debt Obligations going through the roof.

 


In terms of CDOs and other instruments, that horse has already left the barn.  It started here, then fanned out over the world, particularly the UK.  And the only thing standing between us and austerity is that politician you hate, Barack Obama.  The Republicans have been drooling over cutting all federal aid since they took over the House.

 

*Edited for unfair characterization.


Edited by yt - 12/2/11 at 3:57pm
post #357 of 456

I don't hate anyone and I don't appreciate your assumption at all.

 

Look I don't disagree with you much on what you're saying but where I am at is I won't turn a blind eye to this corruption or to this mass consolidation of power.

 

We have to admit there is a problem before we can even start to get to a solution. The country isn't there especially those dopes that blame the victim (as Ron Paul correctly said) when it comes to the housing boom.

 

Democrats that support any of these GATT, NAFTA, Patriot Act, TSA'ing America/the world, Banker bailouts, MIC Military Industrial Complex. Continued Federal Reserve manipulation, The United Europe/America/World of Goldman Sachs is not looking out for the little guy or the people.

 

They are a part of the enemy they are a traitor. This goes to the right as well and Republicans on their face don't usually have a leg to stand on.

 

Now what?

 

post #358 of 456
Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Daywalker View Post

 

Look I don't disagree with you much on what you're saying but where I am at is I won't turn a blind eye to this corruption or to this mass consolidation of power.

 

Now what?


I invite you to read my long-winded response to this above.

post #359 of 456

I respectfully call a truce if I have offended thee. Thus not my intention. Hate the sin not the sinner.

post #360 of 456

Truce accepted.  I think our ideas are similar, but I'm like the hard-bitten, cynical old cop and you're my idealistic newly badged partner. 

post #361 of 456

Its easier to destroy bridges than it is to build them. I am for restoring old rotten bridges and building more.

 

I don't believe in destruction. Call me an idiot but I just want to fix this and have liberty and justice for all.

 

Not some not a few not any special interest group but for all.

 

We agree there are problems and we need constructive solutions I stand side by side with anyone who agrees.

post #362 of 456

good post YT.....

Gods, don't get me started on Norquist......that man is serious slime!

 

Moving the verbal attacks toward Washington DC instead of Wall Street would be incredibly misguided seeing as they are close to becoming nothing more than pawns to be sacrificed by the corporatists that helped to put them into power.

 

The source of the disease that currently infects the politics in this country is located on Wall Street and they will continue to infect any politician that happens to wander by looking to get elected.....at this point the cure is going to have to be the american populace.

post #363 of 456

Anyone who takes aim first at Washington isn't exactly getting it but if Washington or the SEC did what it was supposed to do would we be here?

 

Leadership and accountability over Washington, Wall Street/Corporations isn't exactly bursting with fruit flavor here.

post #364 of 456

Agree with both.  "Blaming Washington" is exactly what the CEOs of Wall St. want because then there's no real actionable intelligence.  It's just Washington being Washington, Democrats and Republicans are all the same, throw up your hands and do nothing.  Occupying Wall Street sends a clear, concise, east-to-understand and hard-to-defend message.   It gets too close to the ugly truth behind the "all Washington is bad" talking point.  All Washington isn't bad -- it's the money.  Focusing on Washington takes the focus off the money, which is why Frank Luntz--who understands the power of OWS' message--wants it. 

 

ETA:  Johnny Daywalker, the SEC BS is all true, but Occupying Washington is not specific enough to address it.  The symbology of Wall Street includes the govt's enabling and coddling of the financial services industry at everyone else's expense, and Occupy Wall St. is having an impact.  Before the protests, they would never allow a stet tax on trades to even be discussed, and I don't know if congressmen would get any traction on legislation that's being proposed about ending corporate campaign financing and corporate personhood. 

post #365 of 456

Right and like I posted earlier in this thread people like Bill Black who prosecuted the Saving and Loan scandal has been put out there as someone who should be our Attorney General.

 

Let me tell you something Wall Street and Bankers shake with fear at thought of someone like Bill Black prosecuting them.

post #366 of 456

everyone here remembers Frank Miller's tirade from several weeks back......

 

 

Quote:

Alan Moore slams Frank Miller for ‘Occupy Wall Street’ comments

 

“Occupy Wall Street” has accomplished many things in its over two month existence. And now, the latest accomplishment could be starting a war between prominent comic book figures Frank Miller and Alan Moore.

 

In responding to Miller’s remorseless slamming of the protests last month on his blog, Moore wasn’t afraid to tell Honest Publishing in an interview how he really felt about the Sin City creator.

“Well, Frank Miller is someone whose work I’ve barely looked at for the past twenty years,” he said. “I thought the Sin City stuff was unreconstructed misogyny, 300 appeared to be wildly ahistoric, homophobic and just completely misguided. I think that there has probably been a rather unpleasant sensibility apparent in Frank Miller’s work for quite a long time. Since I don’t have anything to do with the comics industry, I don’t have anything to do with the people in it.”

 

Moore, who is famous for creating popular series such as Watchmen and V for Vendetta, than gave his candid thoughts on both Miller’s “Occupy” comments and how he differs politically from the rest in the comics industry.

 

“I heard about the latest outpourings regarding the Occupy movement,” he said. “It’s about what I’d expect from him. It’s always seemed to me that the majority of the comics field, if you had to place them politically, you’d have to say centre-right. That would be as far towards the liberal end of the spectrum as they would go.”

 

“I don’t even know if I’m centre-left. I’ve been outspoken about that since the beginning of my career. So yes I think it would be fair to say that me and Frank Miller have diametrically opposing views upon all sorts of things, but certainly upon the “Occupy” movement.

 

Moore went on to signal how he stands in solidarity with the demonstrations.

 

“As far as I can see, the Occupy movement is just ordinary people reclaiming rights which should always have been theirs,” he said. “I can’t think of any reason why as a population we should be expected to stand by and see a gross reduction in the living standards of ourselves and our kids, possibly for generations, when the people who have got us into this have been rewarded for it; they’ve certainly not been punished in any way because they’re too big to fail.”

 

He added: “I think that the “Occupy” movement is, in one sense, the public saying that they should be the ones to decide who’s too big to fail. It’s a completely justified howl of moral outrage and it seems to be handled in a very intelligent, non-violent way, which is probably another reason why Frank Miller would be less than pleased with it.”

“I’m sure if it had been a bunch of young, sociopathic vigilantes with Batman make-up on their faces, he’d be more in favor of it. We would definitely have to agree to differ on that one.”

 

 

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/12/03/alan-moore-slams-frank-miller-for-occupy-wall-street-comments/

 

I wonder if Miller will respond to this.....?

post #367 of 456

Yes but what does Chris Claremont think about all of this? We need to know!

post #368 of 456
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Decade View Post

Yes but what does Chris Claremont think about all of this? We need to know!



I'm really holding out for the brilliance of 'Secret Wars' creator Jim Shooter to chime in on OWS.....

biggrin.gif

post #369 of 456

I love Alan Moore's response, particularly this part:

 

Quote:

 

“As far as I can see, the Occupy movement is just ordinary people reclaiming rights which should always have been theirs,” he said. “I can’t think of any reason why as a population we should be expected to stand by and see a gross reduction in the living standards of ourselves and our kids, possibly for generations, when the people who have got us into this have been rewarded for it; they’ve certainly not been punished in any way because they’re too big to fail.”

 

He added: “I think that the “Occupy” movement is, in one sense, the public saying that they should be the ones to decide who’s too big to fail. It’s a completely justified howl of moral outrage and it seems to be handled in a very intelligent, non-violent way, which is probably another reason why Frank Miller would be less than pleased with it.”

“I’m sure if it had been a bunch of young, sociopathic vigilantes with Batman make-up on their faces, he’d be more in favor of it. We would definitely have to agree to differ on that one.”

 

 

post #370 of 456

 

Quote:Art Decade

Yes but what does Chris Claremont think about all of this? We need to know!

 

 

Something something "Kitty Pryde/bondage gear" something.

post #371 of 456

Social Movements vs. "Social Movements": Comparing Occupy and the Tea Party

 

 

Quote:
A major problem with the Tea Party, in terms of "building a bridge" between its members and Occupy Wall Street, is that very few Tea Partiers (only 15 percent) even blame Wall Street for the current problems we are facing today. While their rage at the stagnation of American prosperity is very legitimate, their attribution of responsibility for this stagnation is so childishly naive, staggeringly ignorant and disturbingly proto-fascist that it makes working with them difficult, if not impossible. How do you work with people who think Obama is a Nazi, socialist, Kenyan Muslim terrorist? Pick your pejorative adjective as applied to Obama, and Tea Partiers likely agree with it.
 
Tea Party supporters increasingly cling to romantic and ignorant notions that if we could somehow return to the "good old days" of "free market," deregulatory capitalism, we would put ourselves back on the path to prosperity. They seem totally unwilling or unable to recognize that it was this very deregulation, and the corresponding assault on the welfare state, that put us on the path to economic ruin. They want the Republican Party to move further to the right, failing to recognize that this rightward drift is the primary cause of America's problems, not the solution to them.

 

snip

 

 

Quote:
The Tea Party organizers were largely autocratic, only interested in directing the agenda from the top down with the help of local "Tea Party" candidates who were really just Republicans running for office. This is radically different from the participatory principle stressed by Occupy Wall Street chapters. Local (Tea Party) leaders were quite open with me that their primary goal was returning a largely discredited and extremely unpopular Republican Party to power, contrary to the public rhetoric of the Tea Party that the "movement" had "nothing to do" with partisan politics. 

 

Most interesting was the revelation that I quickly stumbled upon that this "movement" is for all intents and purposes a mile wide and an inch deep. There were virtually no local chapters throughout the Chicago area, a disturbing revelation considering that Illinois had the largest number of Tea Partiers elected in the 2010 midterms of any state, and considering that the vast majority of them were elected in the Chicago area. 

 

The few local chapters that existed throughout Chicago and its suburbs rarely saw much attendance or participation from members who did bother to show up. This pattern was repeated nationally, with just 8 percent of cities claiming a Tea Party rally on April 15, 2010, actually displaying evidence through their local web site, or the national Tea Party Patriots' web site, of any sort of regular, monthly meetings.  

 

Local Tea Party organizers did from time to time get a sizable (albeit relatively small) number of people to show up at rallies. These organizers were very honest about how they managed to accomplish this, considering that they had meager to nonexistent participation at the local level across the city and its suburbs. They made use of what they called the "email blast" strategy: send out a massive number of emails to people who have visited local Tea Party sites and get people to show up for their yearly (or sometimes twice-yearly) protest and photo-op in celebration of the Tea Party "revolution."

 

This strategy was actually quite effective in getting a larger number of people (relative to anemic meeting turnout) to occasionally attend rallies, but there was literally nothing behind it in terms of building a movement, and it showed at rallies. No institutions or Tea Party organizations were present in terms of tabling or leafleting at the April 15, 2010, Chicago rally, nor could they be, considering there is virtually no organizing to begin with. At other rallies, I occasionally found some evidence of local organizing, but it was almost entirely booths and tabling for local Republicans running for office and engaging in promotional public relations efforts. This is hardly the stuff of social movements, as anyone familiar with movements knows all too well. In short, the Tea Party revealed itself through my observations to be largely a partisan, top-down, elitist affair.

 

post #372 of 456

Simplicity was on the Tea Party's side. Their message was very easy to articulate: tear down everything. Health care? Repeal it. Regulations? Gut them. Obama? Just do the opposite. Everything was in the negative, which is easy to get across. But when you're talking about reforming the government's relationship with entrenched big money interests... you can't put that on poster board! It's so much more complicated than the primal scream of "HEALTH CARE, BAD!"

post #373 of 456

Holy Shit! I'm watching a Deep Space 9 two parter called "Past Tense" from Season 3. It has Sisko, Bashir and Dax being zapped  back to San Francisco 2024. Where "Dims" (aka unemployed people, people with mental disorders who can't afford treatment, Hipsters, etc) are put into "Sanctuaries" where the rest of society tries to forget they exist. Until they stage a mass protest that results in the Police getting violent. This show aired in 1994.

post #374 of 456
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren Peace View Post

Simplicity was on the Tea Party's side. Their message was very easy to articulate: tear down everything. Health care? Repeal it. Regulations? Gut them. Obama? Just do the opposite. Everything was in the negative, which is easy to get across. But when you're talking about reforming the government's relationship with entrenched big money interests... you can't put that on poster board! It's so much more complicated than the primal scream of "HEALTH CARE, BAD!"



Yes, but the difference is also that the Tea Party is not so much a movement, but a bunch of disgruntled folks who are manipulated by Republican party leaders and whom occasionally show up to a rally. In contrast, the Occupy moment is truly participatory with protests spontaneously popping up everywhere and hundreds of thousands of people willing to sleep in tents to stand up for what they think is right. Occupiers also aren't afraid of facts.

post #375 of 456
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon Baby View Post

Holy Shit! I'm watching a Deep Space 9 two parter called "Past Tense" from Season 3. It has Sisko, Bashir and Dax being zapped  back to San Francisco 2024. Where "Dims" (aka unemployed people, people with mental disorders who can't afford treatment, Hipsters, etc) are put into "Sanctuaries" where the rest of society tries to forget they exist. Until they stage a mass protest that results in the Police getting violent. This show aired in 1994.



Don't mean to be snarky, but predictions that the marginalized and economically disadvantaged will be mistreated and swept under the rug aren't exactly prophetic. It's basically happening now, it basically happened in 1994, it's basically been happening since the dawn of time.

post #376 of 456

Sure, Prankster, but these episodes were pretty specific in how these things play out, that were close to what's happening now (Main difference is, the homeless don't even get the minimal services portrayed in DS9).


As for SF's record for predictions: bear in mind that NOT ONE serious SF author predicted the fall of Communism and the end of the Cold War.

post #377 of 456

irony...........?

 

 

Quote:

 

Zuccotti Park owners Brookfield Properties owe city $139G in back taxes

 

City taxpayers have poured millions of dollars and hundreds of police hours into keeping the peace at the privately owned Zuccotti Park during the Occupy Wall Street protests.

The least the park’s owners could do is pay their taxes.

The city Finance Department says park owner Brookfield Properties and its parent company, Brookfield US Corp., currently owe the city more than $139,000 in unpaid business taxes from 2006, 2007, 2008 and 2009.

 

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/zuccotti-park-owners-brookfied-properties-owe-city-139g-back-taxes-article-1.986720

 

post #378 of 456

So OWS tried to shut down 11 major ports on the US West Coast today, with mixed success. I get the rationale behind their actions, but the people most hurt by this stoppage will be the Longshoremen and truckers who will lose a day's pay. But fuck the workers, amiright?

 

Now wait, we need to support the workers, amiright?!

 

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/12/12/BAJK1MBE5E.DTL

post #379 of 456
post #380 of 456
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon Baby View Post

but the people most hurt by this stoppage will be the Longshoremen and truckers who will lose a day's pay. But fuck the workers, amiright?

 

 

ahem...
 

qFJ4C.jpg

post #381 of 456

Ha fucking ha.

 

"Screw your rent and your bills and your family! We gotta take it to TEH MAN!"

 

But hey, what's a few more people out of work, of kicked out of their homes anyway. Can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs, right Ambler?

 

Oh and FYI OWS didn't bother to reach out to the Labor unions for the Longshoremen, and the Unions did not support it. This movement may now be eating it's own.

post #382 of 456
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon Baby View Post

Ha fucking ha.

 

"Screw your rent and your bills and your family! We gotta take it to TEH MAN!"

 

But hey, what's a few more people out of work, of kicked out of their homes anyway. Can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs, right Ambler?

 

Oh and FYI OWS didn't bother to reach out to the Labor unions for the Longshoremen, and the Unions did not support it. This movement may now be eating it's own.



Much more people are affected by Wall Street's actions (including being kicked out of homes and out of work) than the protesters. Your point is beyond moot. 

Also, plenty of unions have supported OWS, so that points moot too. Sorry about the Longshoreman, but something tells me they're gonna be okay, unlike our democracy, economy and country (unless, of course, they go down with all of us, which they will).

post #383 of 456

Well I'd want to ask some of the people directly affected by this lockout, you know? Some (maybe most) of whom supported the General Strike in Oakland, but apparently didn't get a say in this action. Or are we now at the point where the Revolutionary Vanguard will take these decisions for everyone else?

 

Oh and please explain how Wall Street was affected by this. At all. They have insurance and derivatives that protect them from just such events as these.

 

Sorry guys, OWS has left it's moorings, at least in the West Coast (honestly why there was ever an Occupy Oakland?). My understanding is that in NYC there are actual committees drafting real, actionable proposals. Ones which, you know, might HELP ADDRESS THE PROBLEMS. Not as fun or as dramatic, I know, but as they say, "If you aren't part of the solution, you are part of the problem". And as I see it, OWS West is not part of the solution, not with stunts like this.

post #384 of 456

Yes, it's a tidy narrative, but slightly different when not reported by the crappy US news:

 

Quote:

Port truck drivers thank ‘Occupy Wall Street’ protesters

By Agence France-Presse
Monday, December 12, 2011
 
 
 

A group of port truck drivers thanked the "99 percenters" on Monday for bringing attention to their profession, which they claim is rife with labor abuses.

 

“Occupy” protesters disrupted traffic at ports along the U.S. west coast on Monday, as a small number were arrested for seeking to shut down the major trade cargo hub, officials said.

 

The port truck drivers, who were affiliated with the Coalition for Clean & Safe Ports, stopped short of supporting the effort to shut down the ports. But they were “humbled and overwhelmed” by the attention the action brought. “Normally we are invisible,” they said.

 

The biggest action was in Oakland, California where the anti-Wall Street demonstrators closed the major U.S. port for 24 hours last month, as protests were called from southern California up to Alaska.

 

Hundreds of demonstrators marched on the port early in the day, at one point preventing trucks from entering or leaving a couple of gates. And some 150 of 200 longshoremen were sent home to due to companies shutting docks due to safety concerns, said the International Longshore and Warehouse Union.

 

But port authorities said operations continued despite some disruption and delays.

 

“The companies we work for call us independent contractors, as if we were our own bosses, but they boss us around,” the truck drivers said. “We receive Third World wages and drive sweatshops on wheels. We cannot negotiate our rates.”

 

“Why are companies like SSA Marine, the Seattle-based global terminal operator that runs one of the West Coast’s major trucking carriers, Shippers’ Transport Express, doing this?” they continued. “Why would mega-rich Maersk, a huge Danish shipping and trucking conglomerate that wants to drill for more oil with Exxon Mobil in the Gulf Coast conduct business this way too?”

 

“To cheat on taxes, drive down business costs, and deny us the right to belong to a union, that’s why.”

 

Despite the hardships, they did not want to quit their jobs. The drivers would rather stick together and transform the industry from within by organizing themselves.

 

“Nowadays greedy corporations are treated as ‘people’ while the politicians they bankroll cast union members who try to improve their workplaces as ‘thugs,’” they said.

 

“But we believe in the power and potential behind a truly united 99%. We admire the strength and perseverance of the longshoremen. We are fighting like mad to overcome our exploitation, so please, stick by us long after December 12.”

 

The rest is here:  http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/12/12/port-truck-drivers-thank-occupy-wall-street-protesters/

 

post #385 of 456
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon Baby View Post

Well I'd want to ask some of the people directly affected by this lockout, you know? Some (maybe most) of whom supported the General Strike in Oakland, but apparently didn't get a say in this action. Or are we now at the point where the Revolutionary Vanguard will take these decisions for everyone else?

 

Oh and please explain how Wall Street was affected by this. At all. They have insurance and derivatives that protect them from just such events as these.

 

Sorry guys, OWS has left it's moorings, at least in the West Coast (honestly why there was ever an Occupy Oakland?). My understanding is that in NYC there are actual committees drafting real, actionable proposals. Ones which, you know, might HELP ADDRESS THE PROBLEMS. Not as fun or as dramatic, I know, but as they say, "If you aren't part of the solution, you are part of the problem". And as I see it, OWS West is not part of the solution, not with stunts like this.



You really don't understand the idea of protesting at all, do you?

Let me put it this way: the more people everywhere spread the word, the more the media reports it. How much was the media reporting on wealth inequality or corrupt financial institutions before OWS (including OWS West). You might think of them as stunts, and I'm not denying they're cries for attention to a certain extent. But it's what they're trying to do with that attention that's the important part of all this. Hopefully, when enough people wake up we can actually do something about it. You know, after people stop recycling stuff like "dirty hippies," "get a job," and "go join the drum circle." 


Edited by Parker - 12/12/11 at 8:36pm
post #386 of 456

Sure I understand protesting. I'm not knocking the whole movement to date. I agree the protests in NYC, SF and London have woken a lot of people up and created a debate that needed to happen. And that day they urged people to move their money to Credit Unions was great.

 

But when the Civil Rights movement wanted to protest inequalities in Civil Rights, that's what they did. OWS is too defuse. I suppose you could say that the abuses by Wall Street are so pervasive that in essence they can protest almost anything. But if the object is to draw attention to the abuses of Wall Street, they missed the target here.

 

To the population at large, which I assume is the target audience, this type of action is, in fact, playing right into the "recycled dirty Hippie" meme.


Why not show up at some bankruptcy hearings, or picket at someone's home that's been foreclosed?

post #387 of 456
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon Baby View Post

Sure I understand protesting. I'm not knocking the whole movement to date. I agree the protests in NYC, SF and London have woken a lot of people up and created a debate that needed to happen. And that day they urged people to move their money to Credit Unions was great.

 

But when the Civil Rights movement wanted to protest inequalities in Civil Rights, that's what they did. OWS is too defuse. I suppose you could say that the abuses by Wall Street are so pervasive that in essence they can protest almost anything. But if the object is to draw attention to the abuses of Wall Street, they missed the target here.

 

To the population at large, which I assume is the target audience, this type of action is, in fact, playing right into the "recycled dirty Hippie" meme.


Why not show up at some bankruptcy hearings, or picket at someone's home that's been foreclosed?



The elephant in the room with all this tho is the mainstream medias (mis)representation of the entire movement. Plenty of people will buy into the filthy hippy meme regardless becasue 

 

a) it stops them having to ask any questions about the way the world works or

 

b) they believe whatever narrative tv frames for them.

post #388 of 456
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon Baby View Post


Why not show up at some bankruptcy hearings, or picket at someone's home that's been foreclosed?



They're doing this.  It's called Occupy Our Homes.  http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/dec/07/occupy-our-homes-families-foreclosure

 

They're also occupying K Street.  But where there's no police brutality, the media is choosing to instead focus of such important news developments as Rick Perry's latest gaff or Newt Gingrich's "rise."

 

 

post #389 of 456
Quote:
Originally Posted by yt View Post



They're doing this.  It's called Occupy Our Homes.  http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/dec/07/occupy-our-homes-families-foreclosure

 

They're also occupying K Street.  But where there's no police brutality, the media is choosing to instead focus of such important news developments as Rick Perry's latest gaff or Newt Gingrich's "rise."

 

 


Zats a bingo. Don't buy the narrative being sold to you cylon. It's deep fried, elite-maintaining, agenda-pushing bullshit.

 

post #390 of 456

I'm not buying anything, but you guys need to recognize that the Mainstream media is in fact playing off negative stereotypes of 60's radicals, and events like today's Dock shutdown play into that quite well.

 

And I'm glad to see the K Street and Occupy our Homes. Glad to see word is at least trickling out. Is Colbert or Maher covering any of this? (Don't have cable so I'm out of the loop on TV).

post #391 of 456

I'm pretty sure I posted a video of protestors at a Brooklyn foreclosure mtg. Perhaps it was on Facebook. In any case, they have been doing this for months. Just not a lot of press when cops aren't beating the ever loving shit out of people.

 

Saw this today. Fucking awesome! City of Cleveland Passes Emergency Vote to Support OWS

 

Quote:

The Cleveland City Council pass an emergency resolution 1720-11 in support of Occupy Cleveland and the Occupy Movement in general. The final vote from all the Wards was 18 yea and 1 nay.

 

With the passing of the 1720-11 resolution Cleveland’s largest city council joins other cities (Seattle, LA and Chicago etc.) that also have voiced their official support of the Occupy Movement. The following Resolution was sent to President Barack Obama and all members of the U.S. Congress.

 

Cleveland’s Resolution No. 1720-11

Council Members Cummins, Westbrook,Zone, Cimperman, Cleveland, Mitchell,J. Johnson, Brancatelli, Brady, Polensek, Pruitt, Conwell, K. Johnson, Dow. FOR ADOPTION December 5, 2012

 

AN EMERGENCY RESOLUTION

 

Recognizing and supporting the principles of the Occupy Movement and the peaceful and lawful exercise of the First Amendment as a cherished and fundamental right in the effort to seek solutions for economically distressed Americans at the federal,state and local levels; committing to work with the Jackson administration to take steps to minimize economic insecurity and destructive disparities in the City of Cleveland; and requesting our County, State and U.S. elected leaders generate solutions for economically distressed Americans.

 

WHEREAS, Cleveland community members, like others across the United States, are frustrated by the continuing economic crisis that threatens individual, family, small local business and City finances, and our community’s quality of life, and are participating in Occupy protests to make their voices heard; and

 

WHEREAS, the economic roots of these protests are varied, including sustained unemployment, growing income disparity, banking system failures, stalled earning power, and unjust tax systems, that all contribute to ongoing wealth disparities; and

 

WHEREAS, the political roots of these protests are also varied, including the growing political power of corporations, influence of money on elections and public policy and inability of average citizens to have their voices heard and needs met through formal political forums,thus contributing to citizens pursuing alternative political arenas; and

 

WHEREAS, this prolonged economic downturn has hurt nearly all Americans, in the areas of wealth loss, unemployment, and housing access, it has taken an even greater toll on people of color and women. Women are 29% more likely to be poor than men. The poverty rate for single mother families has increased to 40.7%. Economic gains made by people of color since the Civil Rights Movement have been substantially reduced by the Great Recession; and Caucasian Americans experienced a net wealth loss of 16 percent from 2005 to 2009. African Americans lost about half of their wealth and Latinos lost two-thirds of their wealth in this same period [Ref: Census Bureau, Income, Poverty, and Health Insurance Coverage in the United States: 2010]

 

WHEREAS, more than 25 million Americans are unemployed and seeking work; more than 50 million Americans are living without health insurance; and, more than one in five American children are growing up in households living in poverty without sufficient resources tomeet basic survival needs, such as food, clothing, and shelter
[Ref: unemployed defined as unemployed,marginally attached to the labor force, or working only part-time for economic reasons, U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, Table A-15.Alternative measures of labor underutilization];
and

 

WHEREAS, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control (CDC), in its report, a “CDC Health Disparities & Inequalities Report – United States, 2011″ documents that income inequality in the United States is the highest among advanced industrialized nations, with wide-spread inequities in U.S. health outcomes by income, race, and gender; and

 

WHEREAS, over the past 30 years, gains in our economy have accrued largely to the top1% of Americans, who now control 43% of the total net wealth, and to the next 19% on the top that control 50% of the wealth in the United States (top 20% controls 93% of wealth with the bottom 80% controlling only 7%) due in part to public policies that can be changed
[Ref:Wealth Income and Power , by G. William Domhoff, UC Santa Cruz, 2011]
; and

 

WHEREAS, one of the largest problems distressing our economy is the prolonged foreclosure crisis, with many owners struggling to obtain loan adjustments and too many banks continuing the use of flawed review procedures which end up flooding the housing market with foreclosures and result in blighted and de-valued housing stock due to the high number of properties being left vacant and abandoned and poorly maintained; and

 

WHEREAS, the Cleveland-Lorain-Elyria metropolitan area has been particularly hard-hit by the foreclosure crisis, ranking 27th of 366 metropolitan statistical areas in the rate of foreclosures (8.2%) according to a March, 2011 ranking compiled by an analysis of LPS Applied Analytics Data by Local Initiatives Support Corporation (LISC); and

 

WHEREAS, the Cleveland-Lorain-Elyria metropolitan areas ranked eighth amongst the nation’s 25 largest metro areas in its percentage of underwater mortgages (41.5%) according to third quarter 2011 data provided by Zillow Real Estate Market reports; and

 

WHEREAS, local governments are straining under the increasing weight of responsibility to provide for basic support services at a time of declining tax revenues and as a result of budget reductions by the state and federal government; and

 

WHEREAS, the structural causes of the economic crisis facing our society require decisive and sustained action at the national and state levels. Cities are harmed by the crisis and must play an important role in the development of public policy to address it; and

 

WHEREAS, this Council commits to working with the Jackson administration to continue taking steps to minimize economic insecurity and destructive disparities in the City by:

 

1. following the City’s Community Reinvestment Act practices to ensure that public funds are invested in responsible financial institutions that demonstrate strong support for our community. The Council may also consider future legislation to promote responsible banking and provide an incentive for banking institutions to invest more in our City, particularly with regard to stabilizing the housing market and supporting the creation of new businesses. This review should include evaluating City policies on responsible depositing and management of City funds;

 

2. examining the number of home foreclosures in Cleveland, the geographic neighborhoods in which the foreclosures are occurring, and lender information on homes involved in the foreclosure process, including real estate owned homes; working with the Cuyahoga County Land Bank, the City of Cleveland Housing Court, and Case Western Reserve University’s NEOCanDo to gather qualitative data on the circumstances and causes of foreclosures and the foreclosure methods and practices of lenders, including reviewing apparent inequities many people in Cleveland face when lender foreclosure proceedings occur;

 

3. consulting with advocates of tax reform and experts on equitable taxation and review past tax reform efforts in order to work effectively with the County and State Legislature towarda more equitable tax structure;

 

4. as federal and state assistance dwindles, continuing to use available resources to provide assistance for the most vulnerable people in Cleveland; and

 

5. because reforms in education and career preparation are essential for building a viable future and disparities in these areas begin very early in life and often continue through adulthood,seeking maximum possible funding for Early Learning and Basic Education in the State Legislative Agenda; and recognizing the critical importance of supporting community colleges,technical colleges, and state universities as they provide access to retraining and workforce development opportunities; and

 

WHEREAS, Congress must generate solutions for economically distressed Americans by:

 

1. Supporting job creation, making substantial investments in the nation’s critical physical and technological infrastructure, and reducing the deficit by adopting fiscal policies with equitable corporate and individual taxation and by allowing the 2010 extension of President Bush’s tax cuts to expire in 2012 as the law currently requires;

 

2. Tightening regulation of the banking and financial sector, including adoption of new rules and vigorous investigation and prosecution of individuals and corporations that violate the fraud, theft, and securities laws; and

 

3. Retaining or increasing community-building block grants for local schools and social services and protect public education from devastating cuts and prevent tuition levels that block fair access to higher education; and

 

WHEREAS, this Council does not condone actions that infringe upon the lawful rights of others, obstruct or interfere with the efforts of law enforcement officers to protect such rights, or cause personal injury or property destruction; and

 

WHEREAS, Americans can and must resolve the divisive economic and social realitiesfacing our nation in a peaceful way that honors our commitment to democracy, equality and justice; and

 

WHEREAS, this resolution constitutes an emergency measure for the immediate preservation of public peace, property, health, or safety, now, therefore,

 

BE IT RESOLVED BY THE COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF CLEVELAND:

 

Section 1. That this Council recognizes and supports the principles of the Occupy Movement and the peaceful and lawful exercise of the First Amendment as a cherished and fundamental right in the effort to seek solutions for economically distressed Americans at the federal, state and local levels.

 

Section 2. That this Council commits to working with the Jackson administration to continue taking steps to minimize economic insecurity and destructive disparities in the City of Cleveland.

 

Section 3.That this Council requests our Congressional leaders generate solutions for economically distressed Americans.

 

Section 4. That the Clerk of Council is directed to transmit copies of this resolution to President Barack Obama and all members of the U.S. Congress.

 

Section 5. That this resolution is hereby declared to be an emergency measure and, provided it receives the affirmative vote of two-thirds of all the members elected to Council, it shall take effect and be in force immediately upon its adoption and approval by the Mayor; otherwise, it shall take effect and be in force from and after the earliest period allowed by law.

 

 

post #392 of 456
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon Baby View Post

Ha fucking ha.

 

"Screw your rent and your bills and your family! We gotta take it to TEH MAN!"

 

But hey, what's a few more people out of work, of kicked out of their homes anyway. Can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs, right Ambler?

 

Oh and FYI OWS didn't bother to reach out to the Labor unions for the Longshoremen, and the Unions did not support it. This movement may now be eating it's own.


That's because a lot of people in labor unions are the type low education morons who vote conservative. They're people who've had nice cushy jobs for years, if not decades, and think that anyone who isn't in the same position as them are just lazy fucking bums. As if they fucking worked to get where they are as opposed to the reality that they got their job right out of high school (depending on how old they are) or because they had a family member working in the company or been lucky enough never to be laid off. They may be skilled but they aren't educated. There's a difference.

 

Example; I have an uncle who works in a steel plant. He got the job 30 years ago because his father had been there for 25 years by that point. This was circa 1980. He's taken a few courses but only enough to keep his job and has been lucky enough to have never been laid off. He votes conservative because he thinks that everyone who doesn't have a job is a fucking bum and stealing money from him. 

 

He's pretty much, I'd say, 80% of most people within a Union are like. They only care if something hits their wallet. Until then, fuck everyone else as long as they got theirs.

 

post #393 of 456
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon Baby View Post

Ha fucking ha.

 

"Screw your rent and your bills and your family! We gotta take it to TEH MAN!"

 

But hey, what's a few more people out of work, of kicked out of their homes anyway. Can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs, right Ambler?

 

Oh and FYI OWS didn't bother to reach out to the Labor unions for the Longshoremen, and the Unions did not support it. This movement may now be eating it's own.


Can't make an omlet without breaking some eggs, unfortunately yes.  In the long run they're actually doing these union workers, and their kids, a favor by reminding this country that the true power lies with the people...the entire reason for a "union" in the first place.  It's a contradiction to sheeple who don't want their routine interrupted because it's much more comfortable to be asleep.

 

post #394 of 456
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tax Master View Post


That's because a lot of people in labor unions are the type low education morons who vote conservative. They're people who've had nice cushy jobs for years, if not decades, and think that anyone who isn't in the same position as them are just lazy fucking bums. As if they fucking worked to get where they are as opposed to the reality that they got their job right out of high school (depending on how old they are) or because they had a family member working in the company or been lucky enough never to be laid off. They may be skilled but they aren't educated. There's a difference.

 

Example; I have an uncle who works in a steel plant. He got the job 30 years ago because his father had been there for 25 years by that point. This was circa 1980. He's taken a few courses but only enough to keep his job and has been lucky enough to have never been laid off. He votes conservative because he thinks that everyone who doesn't have a job is a fucking bum and stealing money from him. 

 

He's pretty much, I'd say, 80% of most people within a Union are like. They only care if something hits their wallet. Until then, fuck everyone else as long as they got theirs.

 

 

I lived with a family like this for two years during high school.  My best friend and his family owned a construction company...now one of the sons is working for the father with an eye on taking over the business some day.  They love NASCAR and go to church every Sunday.  And I'm pretty sure they vote republican. 
 

 

post #395 of 456

Here's a great article from a woman who tried to organize workers at Amazon. There is some good discussion in the Comments section as well:

 

http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2011/12/in-the-wake-of-protest-one-womans-attempt-to-unionize-amazon/249853/

post #396 of 456
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tax Master View Post


That's because a lot of people in labor unions are the type low education morons who vote conservative. They're people who've had nice cushy jobs for years, if not decades, and think that anyone who isn't in the same position as them are just lazy fucking bums. As if they fucking worked to get where they are as opposed to the reality that they got their job right out of high school (depending on how old they are) or because they had a family member working in the company or been lucky enough never to be laid off. They may be skilled but they aren't educated. There's a difference.

 

Example; I have an uncle who works in a steel plant. He got the job 30 years ago because his father had been there for 25 years by that point. This was circa 1980. He's taken a few courses but only enough to keep his job and has been lucky enough to have never been laid off. He votes conservative because he thinks that everyone who doesn't have a job is a fucking bum and stealing money from him. 

 

He's pretty much, I'd say, 80% of most people within a Union are like. They only care if something hits their wallet. Until then, fuck everyone else as long as they got theirs.

 



The people you describe are by and large NOT part of unions. And your uncle is clearly not in a union. Management types who get their jobs via Nepotism do tend to be obnoxiously conservative.

 

post #397 of 456

Cylon, I don't know if you've learned more about the Longshoreman, unions, etc. since your post on the subject, but the Occupiers did and do, in fact, reach out to the union members.  The Longshoremen were unable to join the demonstration because of the contract they signed but they are by and large in solidarity, as detailed in the article I posted earlier.  The union participation in NYC made a huge difference and helped the Occupiers with infrastructure and force. 

 

A lot of people can't stomach Olbermann, but if you're interested in the day-to-day, play-by-play activities of the Occupy movement, he's the only game in town, providing detailed reports and interviews daily on Current TV.  (Democracy Now is good too).

post #398 of 456

in the wake of that article about Amazon (pun?) and here's some fuzzy kitty, feel good, warm coco reality I saw over on truthdig today...

from Moore's "Capitalism: a Love Story"

 

post #399 of 456
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon Baby View Post



The people you describe are by and large NOT part of unions. And your uncle is clearly not in a union. Management types who get their jobs via Nepotism do tend to be obnoxiously conservative.

 



You're wrong, he's in a Union and not in a management position, more of a supervisor position that he only got because he's been there soo long. No college or university education. And he representative of 90% of blue-collar people I've known who are in Unions, from construction workers to steel plant laborers,  who vote Conservative.  People who are in a Union and well educated are a bit more liberal in their views because they have the credentials that they can get work easily. As the old saying goes, knowledge is power and the power if the freedom to do what you like. But the majority of blue-collar workers swing towards the right because, although possessing skills and technical credentials, they don't possess a view of the bigger picture because of their limited intellectual curiosity which is why they are mostly in trade or labor intensive jobs. They know they don't have the education to do as well if they were laid off which is why there is always an underlying fear which is exactly the type of mentality that most Conservatives have i.e. people are stealing my money, minorities and illegals are taking our jobs etc...

 

You can call me a fucking snob all you like but my observations are based on numerous people that I've encountered, both blue and white collar. People from colleges or universities, or just very well read on sociological issues, are the majority of those protesting in the OWS movement. The only time Union's protest is if something or someone is threatening their wallet. 

post #400 of 456

I'm in a union and I'm an obvious lefty.  I know a guy who's in an electrician's union and would have voted for McCain in '08 but his union convinced him to vote for Obama.  I'm not saying you're 100% wrong, but I don't think you're 100% right either. 

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