REAL STEEL Post-Release Discussion

Queastion: Is Evangline Lily in a bikini at any point during this movie that is totally not a Rock'Em Sock'Em Robots live action movie?

Shouldn't this be in the Focused Film section?

Nope!

Interestingly enough, this is actually the first negative review I have read for this.

I think the saving grace of this movie is that it's just trying to be likeable. There's nothing going on under the surface, and the science fiction is there simply to give the film a new twist on an old genre. In fact I'd argue it's set in the future to disengage the film with anything resembling too much reality, which works for the film. But the robot effects are great, and the fights are staged well. After this summer's mostly misfires - even something like Captain America, which falls apart in the third act - it's nice to see something like this that delivers. It's pure corn, but arguably it's better put together than 90% of the most recent blockbusters.

Why there is so much understanding of what this movie is "trying" to do, and so little for other retarded blockbusters? It's very sharp, but the action gets hideously stale and predictable towards the end. There is absolutely no reason a film like this should get accolades when Warrior couldn't get an audience for shit. I get that this is a kid's film, but it's still dumber than is excusable, and the answers for a better movie are all right there. I don't understand why so many critics decided to get all sunshiney and pull punches for this one. It's filled with stupid crap like "Oh, this entire body of one of the most sophisticated robots ever built is worthless because it lost a fight," and one scene later, "Nice find on that piece of metal in a scrapyard kid! This random joint will surely help me build a fighting robot..."

It's also inexcusably insulting about how it treats Atom, which is given the seeds of a heart and character, and then is completely ignored. Why does he look at himself in the mirror after being left behind, and yet never get the chance to really connect with Charlie or Max again? How could this film so flatly fail to pay off its adorable robot? He's sacrificed at the alter of the father-son payoff.

 

Also, why wasn't Atom a bot that Mashido designed or experimented on when he was younger? When they specifically mention Tak Mashido being "a child prodigy" I thought that surely meant Atom would turn out to be one of his early experiments, which would explain him having the feelings/thoughts/undefined-humanity that apparently no other robot of his model had. It would also make it much more sensical that he could defeat the cartoonishly monolithic, advance design of Zeus because ultimately they'd be working off the same basic programming, but Atom triumphing because more love and care was put into his traing. That shit is how you do Rocky with robots.

I guess when a film is about Robots getting into fights, the level of intellectual involvement is lowered to a level of most comic book and kids movies. The robot is simply a tool, Jackman said that he doesn't think that there's anything going on in the robot, but because of the Kuleshov effect many people see a soul into the robot. I think it's the kids way of relating to his father - if he can love the robot fighter, he can love his father, and so the film is about the two finding each other through a proxy. It's pretty basic building blocks. It feels like you've read the film wrong.

I think the film sets its tone early when Jackman loses a fight because he's looking at a woman. Perhaps it's funny that a film about robots has such naked mechanics. And perhaps REAL STEEL is a comment on the industry we're in, but and I hate to say this, but even though everything is heightened to the level of absurdity - I mean James Rebhorn is wearing an ascot, for christ's sake - every scene leads to the next, and the emotions are understandable. On top of that the film is inoffensive, and it's got a charming cast. On that level the film is "good junk."

I don't care what Jackman's said. The film takes careful time out to give Max and this robot special moments. Again, I get that at its core it does a decent (if unremarkable) job of bringing Max and Charlie together. But it then sets up the robots in ways it doesn't have the interest or the ability to pay off. Whether those moments are actually trying to say that the robot has a soul or whatever is irrelevant, as they're not taken to a place of completion. What's the point of the moment that dwells on Atom staring at himself in a mirror? Sure, it doesn't necessarily mean the thing has got a soul in there, but it's a quiet moment in which the bot that's actually taking punches in the ring is being left behind by its owners to go flirt with the big, flashy robot. As it looks out after them leaving the room it then seems to contemplate itself. That's an emotional beat that goes nowhere, and in a children's film designed for an audience that is of course going to latch on to the big robot with a smiley face as a character, it's just weird that he doesn't get his moment. Especially since Charley and Max have already reconciled, and Charley has gone out of his way to get him back. Give the damn robot a moment to fight for himself-- it doesn't rob Charley and Max of anything since its their time and dedication coming through, and hell, it sets up a more fun sequel.

 

The action and the spectacle are nothing special, and certainly not enough to warrant a "turn your brain off" level of criticism any more than a Captain America or an X-Men or The Smurfs. It's not a piece of shit, but calling it "great" is a weird and cheap double-standard, and I'm seeing it happen. I don't want to sound like a complete grump out for blood with the robot movie, but there's a real cognitive dissonance I'm dealing with when seeing this film become especially lauded.

 

And frankly, the thoughtless production design and shameless corporate tie-ins that actively drag down the look of the film leave a really bad taste in my mouth from this otherwise harmless, well manufactured tripe that will be shoveled in front of kids.

But Atom has Shadow mode. It's possibly looking into the mirror trying to imitate itself. Your criticism is so weird because it's about Jackman's victory at the end. It's his Rocky moment. To an extent I think the film leaves some of that up to the viewer, but many of the moments where Atom seems to have a soul is a reflection of it imitating the boy or Jackman. And again, if the film functions on any higher brain levels, it's how the two use the robot to get closer.

The spectacle is better than most films because they create a great reality to the boxing robots. There are some dodgy effects (mostly the bull stuff), but a lot of it looks photo-realistic (and a lot was done practically), and watching robots fight is to my mind good spectacle.

As per "great" or the tie-in marketing, I never said the film was great, I just think it works a well worn formula in all the right ways and frankly I don't think the people who are championing the movie don't do so without noting their caveats. As per the advertising I can see how that would be irritating, I guess, but no more so with this than any other film like it. The Dr. Pepper stuff is no better or worse than the obvious placement in the first Spider-Man, and arena fights are going to be littered with ads because that's modern sports.

 

This is how I generally feel about critics' treatment of the "post-ironman" spat of Marvel films.  They range from mediocre to awful, yet they get by completely on nerd cred and the "....but it's fun!!!" argument.

 

 

With that said, this thread has kinda made me more interested in Real Steel than I was previously. 

You've seen this movie before.   This movie does everything you expect it to.   The Formula is adhered to religiously.   And it's directed by the master of anti-cinema Shawn Levy.   I loved it.

 

It won't get on anybody's best of lists but Real Steel is one of those movies that delivers a well worn story with some panache and entertainment value.   The robot designs are great (except for Zeus which might be the point), the fights are very well staged, and the special effects are amazingly photo realistic.   Hugh Jackman and Dakota (forget his last name) have great comraderie together and the kid especially toes the line from stepping into "annoying child actor" territory.   He's right there but on the right side of the line.   I gotta think that has everything to do with the Beard producing.  

 

Also, I liked that it wasn't just wall to wall Robot on Robot violence.    Some real time was taken with the drama which I wasn't expecting.  

 

I can understand why some on CHUD don't like the film and it does have flaws but I thought there was enough good stuff in here to tip the scales toward the "good/almost great" category.   Super 8 was trying REALLY hard to be that Amblin movie from the 80's.   This was that movie.   Granted it was a "batteries not included" and not a "Gremlins".   A minor work but one worth seeing especially if you have a 12 year old boy.  

 

 

ETA:   I like the fact that the question wasn't answered conclusively if Atom was sentient or not.   I like that bit of ambiguity .   It also works to ground the film into a sort of reality.   I would say having Atom suddenly gain sentience and fight for himself would have been a step too far and I'm not sure Levy would have had the chops to make that leap plausible.    I love the idea of having the Japanese guy design Atom and I'm willing to bet that was a dropped plotline.   The fact that they wanted to buy him at one point might be a clue.

 

With all its flaws, I would be down with a sequel if only to see the world this movie is set in expanded.   I have to imagine the sequel would have to go international and involve kung fu.   I'd pay to see that

Edited by dynamotv - 10/7/11 at 11:18pm

The Japanese guy denigrated Atom quite a bit though, unless that's cover or they wrote over that the idea that he designed Atom and not everything was completely taken out.

 

I think making Atom fully autonomous would have been too much for the movie, since it was very much about Jackman and the kid.  The sequel, if there is one, can go in that direction given the hints that were there.

 

Overall, I generally liked it, even if it was covering some well-worn territory.  It was a fun time at the movies.

 

If there is a sequel, I agree, let's see some true world wide robot boxing.  I want to see a Russian robot boxer.

Just got back from this, and I agree that this is certainly a fun time at the movies.  It strictly adheres to the "underdog story" we all know and love, and some of the family drama doesn't exactly work; but, goddamn does this film get amazing when it focuses on the fights.  The robots all look great and have their own personality (something Michael Bay could learn something from), and Jackman and the kid have such great chemistry together.

Fascinating. I can't believe people are responding to this film. I wanted to like REAL STEEL pretty hard - love Jackman, love the silly premise - but it was fighting me every step of the way. And I was overlooking a lot too. Possibly the good buzz hurt it for me. I was fully anticipating a turn-your-brain-off good time, but even with my brain at 50% red flags were constantly popping up.

 

That said, I guess I'm glad (for Jackman) that people are liking it.

Well, what exactly was it that bothered you about the film.  The film has its share of flaws, but I don't think they necessarily detract from the overall enjoyment of the movie.
 

 

http://www.chud.com/69710/worms-eye-view-5-ways-to-fix-real-steal/

 

This is a tough movie to debate, because no one who likes it is going to argue that the film is good -- something every positive review I've read has acknowledged. We're talking about a knowingly brainless popcorn film that people either enjoy or don't. I wanted to enjoy it, but I just couldn't get into it. I loved the opening bull fight, and was excited at that point, but hated how he lost that fight and things mostly just spiraled from there for me. If the action had been really amazing I likely could've overlooked all the issues I note in my article, but other than the bull fight and Atom's first match in the Zoo, I didn't find the boxing scenes that exciting/noteworthy.

After reading that, I'm wondering why they didn't use Noisy Boy's design as Zeus'.  It's design is closer to "Japanese," which you would think would be the case for the star robot made by a Japanese dude.  It's also one of the best robot designs in the movie.

 

Or maybe he or Lemkova likes Greek mythology.

Zeus was the least interesting robot design in the film. That's a total nitpick, but still. An all black version of Noisy Boy would've been cooler, indeed.

Also, I like to imagine that Zeus was a reference to the Hulk Hogan "classic" NO HOLDS BARRED.

He sold his kid.  Fuck this movie.

But, he didn't accept the other half of the payment.  He learned a valuable lesson.

Marry me.

He should've taken the money and spent it on the kid!

Don't bring your logic in here.

 

Loved all the boxing stuff, but the kid just worked my nerves throughout the film.  However, Jackman and Lily were both terrific, so I have mixed emotions about the film.  I cannot entirely hate a movie that has a robot with a mohawk.   

 

How stupidly unfair was the fight with Twin Cities?   Shouldn't TWO-headed robots have their own division?   BULLSHIT!

 

 

Be glad it didn't have four arms.

I was really fucking glad the robots were just machines. The kid was projecting onto the robot at points, but to me it was refreshing that Atom wasn't Iron Giant. Same goes for hoping/thinking Atom was somehow tied to the villainous Japanese inventor. One thing this movie didn't need was MORE cliches.

I still fail to see a good reason to give the dumb robot a moment of mournful self-contemplation.

Well, maybe if they went the self-aware/self-contemplative route Atom could have discovered that he's in control of his actions, and that he's a jerk that just likes beating the hell out of his fellow robots.

I barely remember the moment. What made it mournful? Music?

The doggy style tilted head.

WHAT? now I have to see this, thought it was a  PG-13.

I was about to go with cocked head, but...yeah.

 

Why must you make everything unclean?

 

I saw this at the drive-in, so maybe I missed some auido cues, but

 

 

 

Wasn't there a big deal about how like 8 guys were working Zeus' joysticks, culminating in Asian inventor shoving one out of the way and taking it over during the end of the fight? I never got the impression he fought autonomously; he just had all the money and tech behind him, like a robot Yankee.

 

And from there:

 

Not seeing the same level of magic sentience you did (Atom stops fighting when the voice command fails and just stands there being pounded on until they turn on his shadow function), but if you lose the idea that Zeus is "autonomous", does that reduce your disappointment in Atom just being a robot? Is a shot of him looking in a mirror the only niggling point on that "magic sentience" tip?

 

I think the kid anthropomorphizing the robot is one thing, and if the mirror scene enforced that, it's a misstep, but it's another thing to consider it a "major character" in the film. The robot is what they bond over, like a soapbox derby car or a schooner or something.

Edited by Phil - 10/10/11 at 10:56am

The capabilities of Zeus were contradictory.  Tak went on about Zeus being able to learn from the fights and use that to beat his opponents.  But, there were a bunch of guys controlling the robot like all of the robots.  Maybe it was just marketing bullshit.

Or, dare I say, so-so writing?

 

The guys at the console were monitoring Zeus, but he fought autonomously as greatly hyped earlier in the film. When the fight goes south and Tak hops behind the wheel (so to speak), the announcers make a big deal about him overriding control himself (which did zero to change the dynamic of the fight, of course).

 

Also, the moment with Atoms follows the cute exchange between a high-strung Charlie being talked down by Max. Suddenly they're invited to go to the private suite, and they drop tools and walk out, leaving behind their dirty, cheap-looking robot. The scene lingers with poor left-behind Atom, and he then contemplates himself in a mirror. The scene pretty specifically conveys an either sad, lonely or metaphysically loaded tone.

It just seemed to come and go really quickly, to the extent that it didn't make me feel like it was a missed opportunity and dangling plot thread. I just never really viewed the robot as a character, though the little boy may well have.

 

Sidebar: "Steel", a season 5 episode of Twilight Zone, is based on the same Matheson story this was inspired by. On Instant, for the curious.

 

 

Had a lot of fun watching this flick. It's very much a throwback, with a frame stolen from better movies (ex: Rocky). But maybe it's just a case of diminished expectations after having waded through years of non-sensical, cynical, and hopelessly mediocre summer blockbusters, but I really did enjoy it. It's earnest, without a trace of post Generation X irony and detachment, and just decidedly odd, in a style reeking of 80s era sports movie (that fucking robot from Rocky, what, II I think, had to have been an inspiration) and cult sci-fi/fantasy. It doesn't really try to justify its gonzo futuristic back-yard wrestling milieu, and I even appreciated its unpolished and great in-a-can't-believe-they-included-this-in-a-major-release edges (a father sells his son. And he's our hero. That's hilarious).

 

It did speed past some opportunities that would have better exploited the setting's potential. Personally, there could have been more fights, and they could have been more inventive. But all in all, this is really fulfilling blockbuster action adventure fodder. And that's pretty rare (at least for me).

Just wanted to mention this thread is in the wrong FORUM. It belongs in FEATURED FILMS, no?

When this was announced I thought it'd be Movie Microscope material. I gnarl and say it's good. Shallow, but fun and got me teary-eyed.

 

Watched this last night in a bargain theater.  I really enjoyed it, but I think Renn has some really good points about his misgivings with the film.  In my case, I simply didn't mind too much.  

 

I both liked how vague everything was kept (in regards to the future, the details about the family situation, the history of robot fighting) and was left wanting to know more.  That doesn't result in the tightest narrative, but the movie's formulaic energy and charm (love the robot designs) got it through.

 

One thing I didn't quite understand.  In their 'people's victory,' Charlie and Max have a moment in which Charlie tries to tell him something but can't get it out.  Max just says, "Your secret is safe with me."  Was there an actual secret?  Or was it just Max's way of saying, "I know you love me."

 

Considering the fact that Levy has some kind of definite plan for a sequel to this movie, I wonder how much stuff was left open for future installments (Atom's mirror scene did feel like a setup for a bigger payoff).  Of course, that might not even happen considering the fact that the movie wasn't that big of a hit.  It really seemed to come and go from theaters.

 

 

From Joshua's piece on the film:

 

 

Hahahahahahah, I was so weirded out by this too!  They later say the robots weigh about a ton!  And the kid just carts it around like nothing!

 

Charlie should've been knocked over by Max's flurry of angry kiddie punches!

Zeus's design notwithstanding the film is pretty on the nose with the fact that Atom is a first gen design of Zeus.  From the fact that the two robots are bookends of the alphabet to the knowing looks between the paper thin villains to the offer to purchase the upstart phenom bot.

I saw this today at the dollar(our dollar theatre charges $2... Kate, wanna go see a movie together?) theatre.  Other than being blurry for most of the film I thought it was good but had so many problems that have been addressed by the three articles on CHUD.

 

Nooj, as to the secret, something that was hinted at that no one has brought up is that Charlie, when visited by the friends who tell him of his ex's death says that he hasn't seen the woman in nine or ten years.  Several times that time frame is mentioned and then later on Charlie and Max discuss his age, Max says he is eleven and Charlie sorta balks at this for a very, very, very split second.  There is another very minor beat later on that Charlie makes mention of maybe leaving when Max was born or almost two.  it definitely sounds more like he bolted around the time the kid was born or something.  All this to say though that the timeline and some of the character reactions suggested to me that Charlie may not be Max's father.  Maybe I misread a few of those scenes but the "secret" at the end made me think that Max somehow knows he isn't Charlie's son.  More likely it was just sloppy writing I would say but with the other mishandled story cues I wonder if there were some re-writes that weren't vetted with the rest of the script.

 

And the cart that Max was moving Atom around on was motorized, you could hear the motorized wheels as he walked down the road.  Plus they mention it has a winch so that suggests a motor as well.

 

There is a much more solid film in the dropped plot lines of this movie.  It reminded me a little of The King's Speech where I walked out wanting to see two or three films that focused on different characters in that movie.  I would really love to see the movie that could have been made from some of the setups in this one.