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Role Replacement

post #1 of 46
Thread Starter 

In sequels, or even franchises, there are instances of actors being unable to return to a role. This can be due to trouble on set (Terrence Howard with Iron Man) or a dissatisfaction with performance (Katie Holmes in Batman Begins), among other things. In some cases, like these examples, the role is recast and we're left to forever debate the pros and cons of each performance of the same character. In other cases, however, an entirely new character is created that fills the same role.

 

To provide an example, City Slickers II: The Legend of Curly's Gold. Now this isn't a particularly notable film. In fact, what's most notable about it is what lengths it goes to in order to recapture the formula of the original. The obvious example is Jack Palance returning but as the twin brother of Curly. With Bruno Kirby opting to not return as the character of Ed Furillo from the original, however, he is replaced by an entirely different actor, Jon Lovitz, as an entirely original character, Glen Robbins. When I say original it's in the strictest sense, because although this Godfather quoting character (get it, Bruno Kirby was in The Godfather...) gets a few chuckles, he doesn't bring much to the table. All he does is fill the role of tag along #2, because there needed to be two friends with Billy Crystal's Mitch just like in the original. 

 

With that said, what are notable role replacements in film history? In each case, did the new character/actor earn their place in their ensemble, or try too hard to recapture the old magic? 

post #2 of 46

Even without having seen the first 2, it could not have been any more obvious in Transformers 3 that the British chick was a replacement love interest that was only brought in because of off-screen issues with established one.

post #3 of 46

Not too sure how John Goodman could be seen as a replacement for John Belushi besides them both being fatter than Aykroyd.

post #4 of 46

Julianne Moore, fine actress that she is, just could not inhabit Clarice Starling the way Jodie Foster could.  

post #5 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratty View Post

Julianne Moore, fine actress that she is, just could not inhabit Clarice Starling the way Jodie Foster could.  



To be fair (and I am waaaaay more than fair when it comes to Ms. Moore), she was in a much worse movie to begin with.

post #6 of 46

Sadly, this replacement scenario came to effect the role of the ORACLE in the MATRIX TRILOGY. Gloria Foster portrayed the program in the first two films, only to be swapped out for Mary Alice in REVOLUTIONS

 

The reason behind the swap was explained in a videogame, as I recall, but it didn't really make alot of sense if you were watching the movies, as Neo seemed to acknowledge that she was different, but there was never a follow up

post #7 of 46

Sadly Mark Ruffalo is being called in to take away HULK from Edward Norton. I don't know yet whether or not the 'magic' is gone, but I don't think Ruffalo is the right presence for the role

post #8 of 46

Sabertooth was a professional wrestler in X-MEN, and yet became talented thespian Liev Schreiber for XMO:W

post #9 of 46
Thread Starter 

Actually guys, I'm not asking about re-casting (see first post). I'm talking about creating an entirely new character that fits in the same role, ie. love interest, like Schwartz points out in his post.

 

For instance, Kate, Harold Perrineau as Link in The Matrix Reloaded obviously replaces Marcus Chong as Tank in the original as the Operator. The question is why, and whether or not Link is a superior character to Tank. The replacement is probably something the Wachowskis didn't ask for (Tank could easily have fit into the sequel), so how well did they roll with the punches? 

post #10 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven View Post

Actually guys, I'm not asking about re-casting (see first post). I'm talking about creating an entirely new character that fits in the same role, ie. love interest, like Schwartz points out in his post.

 

For instance, Kate, Harold Perrineau as Link in The Matrix Reloaded obviously replaces Marcus Chong as Tank in the original as the Operator. The question is why, and whether or not Link is a superior character to Tank. The replacement is probably something the Wachowskis didn't ask for (Tank could easily have fit into the sequel), so how well did they roll with the punches? 

Ah, my mistake, and apologies. To get this back on topic then, what was the deal with Marcus Chong? I recall hearing rumors circa 2003 that it was a Terrance Howard situation, that he was an extremely difficult person to deal with or some such thing. It seems like the Wachowskis would have had the power to keep him around had they wanted to (unless there is some part of this story I'm not familiar with)

 

One more... how about Ken replacing Mark in ABT2? Probably the best example there is! CYF brought his A game as always, but ultimately some of the emotional impact of the story was lost since it's, you know, an inexplicable twin and not the character who bonded with our leads in ABT1
 

EDIT: Re: TANK vs LINK:

 

I liked Link, but I feel like it did kind of hurt that we'd just been introduced to that character, and so he never really felt a part of Morpheus' 'family'. It was well acted, but it seems like the story would have been better served had Tank returned to fill that role


Edited by Princess Kate - 9/30/11 at 8:25am
post #11 of 46

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven View Post

Actually guys, I'm not asking about re-casting (see first post). I'm talking about creating an entirely new character that fits in the same role, ie. love interest, like Schwartz points out in his post.

 

For instance, Kate, Harold Perrineau as Link in The Matrix Reloaded obviously replaces Marcus Chong as Tank in the original as the Operator. The question is why, and whether or not Link is a superior character to Tank. The replacement is probably something the Wachowskis didn't ask for (Tank could easily have fit into the sequel), so how well did they roll with the punches? 


I am pretty sure the why is because Chong sorta lost his mind and asked for boatloads more money, despite being a relatively minor supporting role that, while crucial to the plot, in no way was really related to the reasons for the movie's success. Given that, I think the W Bros rolled pretty well with it, were able to explain Link's connection in just a few lines of dialogue, and kept things going. I do think having Tank back might have helped with some emotional continuity, but I think any ripple effects were minor. This wasn't akin to Morpheus dying or hieing off to another adventure and another de facto mentor figure entering the story. 

 

The Bourne movies do this, to some degree. In IDENTITY, we have Chris Cooper leading the team to find Bourne, with Brian Cox being the shifty and dangerous supervisor. In the second film, the Pamela Landy character steps in for Cooper's character, but instead of being wholly antagonistic and bent on Bourne's death, Landy has a bigger, deeper aim - but again, the Cox character is working against her in the shadows, though he's ultimately undone by his own greed and pride. In the third film, Landy's still around, but Cox's character is replaced by not one but two characters, again trying to thwart her efforts to find out the hidden truth behind Treadstone and Bourne's break with the agency.

 

post #12 of 46

I've never actually seen the movie, but wasn't George Hamilton basically filling in a part that was meant to be Robert Duvall as Tom Hagen again?

post #13 of 46

Jason Patric coming in for Keanu in SPEED 2 seems to be a pretty glaring example.  

post #14 of 46

John Cleese coming in as the new Q in Die Another Day?

post #15 of 46

Best role replacement: Chop Top stepping in for Hitchhiker, Texas Chainsaw Massacre Part 2.

 

And though not the topic of the thread, saying Katie Holmes was replaced due to "dissatisfaction" - that's still 100% conjecture, isn't it? Anyone on record with that? I'd be surprised.

post #16 of 46

I always thought that Holmes was dropped from Nolan's Batman movies when she turned the promotional part of her job into a I HEART TOM CRUISE tour instead.  But that's probably conjecture too.

 

 

post #17 of 46

Clemenza ('The Godfather') being replaced by Frank Pantangioli ('The Godfather, Part 2').  From what I recall, the actor who played Clemenza wanted too much money to return for the sequel, so he was killed off with a heart attack and replaced with Frank.

 

I had no problem with this.  Frank was a great character with a fantastic voice.  Storywise, it would have been nice to have the Tessio/Clemenza arc kinda repeat itself, but no big deal.

post #18 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil View Post

Best role replacement: Chop Top stepping in for Hitchhiker, Texas Chainsaw Massacre Part 2.

 


God damn right! Excellent choice there. I always loved how they brought back HitchHiker anyway, as a dummy corpse. Inspired. 



Quote:
Originally Posted by Judas Booth View Post

Clemenza ('The Godfather') being replaced by Frank Pantangioli ('The Godfather, Part 2').  From what I recall, the actor who played Clemenza wanted too much money to return for the sequel, so he was killed off with a heart attack and replaced with Frank.

 

I had no problem with this.  Frank was a great character with a fantastic voice.  Storywise, it would have been nice to have the Tessio/Clemenza arc kinda repeat itself, but no big deal.


I have never heard that, and it makes the lack of Clemenza in Part II hurt even more, especially with the role he plays in the flashback sections. However, as you said, Frank was such a memorable character... I almost prefer it the way it worked out. If Clemenza had been in Part II in addition to Frank, that would have been interesting. Not sure how that would have played out. Still, I hate that "Oh, he died" shit when an actor refuses to return, but what are you gonna do? Sort of like Brando remaining off-screen in the final sequence... it almost works better. I imagine it as too distracting otherwise. 

 

post #19 of 46

Ice Cube taking on the role of the new xXx from Vin Diesel.   Does it work?   Way better than it has any right to.

 

And as stated from the "OP", this isn't a thread about replacing a part but Michael Gambon did an amazing job taking over for Professor Dumbledore so much that he's the guy I picture in the role.

post #20 of 46
Does Kate Capshaw in Temple of Doom count? At an unsuccessful attempt at least?
post #21 of 46

Do TV shows apply to this thread?  Or is that a different beast?  Charlie Sheen replacing Michael J. Fox as the star of Spin City.  Robert Patrick replacing David Duchovny.  Ashton Kutcher replacing Charlie Sheen.

 

Is it just too common in the world of television?

post #22 of 46
Weaver, Alien: Resurrection. What sounded like a forced sequel on paper actually works as a role replacement that is new and a continuation. If there really has to be a sequel, it's a good logical next step. In the original, Ripley just barely escaped her nightmare. In the sequel, she reluctantly returns to face it again, and in 3 she finally has it even closer, in her. In 4, RIpley finally has become her nightmare and is at peace with it. You could argue that her character already drastically changes over one to three, but the clone isn't a direct continuation of that character, only in theme. Old Ripley would have never behaved liked that or gotten there.
post #23 of 46
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Myers View Post

Weaver, Alien: Resurrection. What sounded like a forced sequel on paper actually works as a role replacement that is new and a continuation. If there really has to be a sequel, it's a good logical next step. In the original, Ripley just barely escaped her nightmare. In the sequel, she reluctantly returns to face it again, and in 3 she finally has it even closer, in her. In 4, RIpley finally has become her nightmare and is at peace with it. You could argue that her character already drastically changes over one to three, but the clone isn't a direct continuation of that character, only in theme. Old Ripley would have never behaved liked that or gotten there.


I like this one. The same actor returns fulfilling the same role, but I've always held that #8 is not Ripley but an entirely new character. With that in mind, it actually improves the movie.

post #24 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil View Post

Best role replacement: Chop Top stepping in for Hitchhiker, Texas Chainsaw Massacre Part 2.

 

And though not the topic of the thread, saying Katie Holmes was replaced due to "dissatisfaction" - that's still 100% conjecture, isn't it? Anyone on record with that? I'd be surprised.


AFAIK, the official reason is that she had a conflicting schedule with that heist movie she filmed with Queen Latifah and someone else (can't remember who). But the rumors all had it because of Cruise's batshit behavior and her poor reviews for her performance in BEGINS - nothing official or from a credible source (again, as far as I know).

Whatever the reason, I remain very, very glad for the switch.
post #25 of 46

Chris Tucker in Friday as Smokey was replaced by Mike Epps In Next Friday as Day-Day apparently because Tucker became a born-again Christian and gave up the weed.

 

Bill Murray's brilliant Carl Spackler in Caddyshack was replaced by Dan Aykroyd's not-so-brilliant Captain Tom Everett in Cadyshack II. In fact, that whole movie was a replacement with Rodney Dangerfield swapped out for Jackie Mason and Ted Knight replaced with Robert Stack.

post #26 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post

Robert Patrick replacing David Duchovny.

This is an interesting one, because while Doggett was becoming the new male lead, he was actually replacing Scully as the new skeptic character, as opposed to Mulder. Well, for a while anyway.

 

post #27 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Princess Kate View Post

Sadly, this replacement scenario came to effect the role of the ORACLE in the MATRIX TRILOGY. Gloria Foster portrayed the program in the first two films, only to be swapped out for Mary Alice in REVOLUTIONS


Only to be swapped out? Foster died.

Quote:
Originally Posted by User_32 View Post

Chris Tucker in Friday as Smokey was replaced by Mike Epps In Next Friday as Day-Day apparently because Tucker became a born-again Christian and gave up the weed.


And he became a born-again "I don't really want to work". Hence the 6 year gap b/t RUSH HOUR 2 & 3 and not much else on the old resume. Guess that weed made him lazy.

 

post #28 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post

Do TV shows apply to this thread?  Or is that a different beast?  Charlie Sheen replacing Michael J. Fox as the star of Spin City.  Robert Patrick replacing David Duchovny.  Ashton Kutcher replacing Charlie Sheen.

 

Is it just too common in the world of television?

Pretty common I'd think. Norman Fell's fine and all, but he's no Don Knotts. Trading up!


threescompanycast5.jpg tripper_jack8.jpg

 

 

 

post #29 of 46

don't forget 'Bewitched' with the two Dicks.

post #30 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by DARKMITE8 View Post




Only to be swapped out? Foster died


One can be swapped out by death. I was simply trying to word things in a sensitive manner
post #31 of 46

You failed.  'Swapped out' implies that it was an intentional replacement of a disposable item, not recasting forced by the culmination of a tragic illness.

post #32 of 46

The Avengers

The Avengers' ladies2.jpg

Role replacement done right.

post #33 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fafhrd View Post

You failed.  'Swapped out' implies that it was an intentional replacement of a disposable item, not recasting forced by the culmination of a tragic illness.


I will adapt and learn
post #34 of 46

The cool B.J. Hunnicutt (Mike Farrell) was a massive upgrade from the dorky Trapper John (Wayne Rogers).

images.jpg

post #35 of 46

The thing about the Oracle role going from Gloria Foster to Mary Alice is that the character seemed to go through a big switch in tone.  Gloria Foster had a lightness to her even when she was delivering the most dire and clunkiest of exposition.  With Mary Alice, everything was doom and gloom.  Now, the Oracle's lines in Revolutions WERE actually more doomy and gloomy... but still, it seemed like a conscious choice made by the Wachowski Bros to play her that way to explain the change in her appearance. 

 

From what I've seen in the behind-the-scenes features for the movies, Mary Alice seemed just as capable of giving the Oracle a similarly loving touch that Foster brought to the role.  But I'm thinking that they were intentionally trying not to have her mimic Foster's performance.  So to me, the Oracle in Revolutions was very much a different character.

post #36 of 46

As great as Mary Alice is, her Oracle had a quietly optimistic yet utterly defeated energy (not unlike President Obama), while Foster was decidedly spunky & full of fight (not unlike Candidate Obama).

post #37 of 46

Well said.  And considering the fact that whatever the Merovingian does to her in between the two sequels is clumsily explained in a few lines of perfunctory dialogue (I don't care if it was covered in the video game cutscenes or whatever), that change definitely seems to have been made in reaction to Foster's passing.

post #38 of 46

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexus-7 View Post

This is an interesting one, because while Doggett was becoming the new male lead, he was actually replacing Scully as the new skeptic character, as opposed to Mulder. Well, for a while anyway.

 

 

 

I still think the show should have let Anderson go, and had some fun with Reyes and Doggett being the inverted Mulder and Scully. Keeping Anderson on made things worse, and forced the show to keep making its already fucked-beyond-sense mythology even more contradictory and boring.

 



Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Decade View Post

The cool B.J. Hunnicutt (Mike Farrell) was a massive upgrade from the dorky Trapper John (Wayne Rogers).

images.jpg


ITYM "the boring and sanctimonious BJ Hunnicut was a discouraging downgrade from the funny and more likable Trapper John."

 

I can't watch any shows past the season where Trapper left. Way too preachy and sucked the fun right out of the show.

post #39 of 46

I bow down to your opinion. As a supremely tangential viewer of MASH, my point may well be a case of "not knowing what the hell I'm talking about".

post #40 of 46

The one I always come to is Jerry Reed taking over as "The Bandit" from Burt Reynolds in SMOKEY AND THE BANDIT 3.

post #41 of 46

Does pushing Gonzo into the lead Muppet focus position (when Jim died) count?

post #42 of 46

3 Catwomen

3 Mr Freezes

2 Riddlers from the old Batman show.

post #43 of 46

I think saying they pushed Gonzo into the lead Muppet focus position is a little exaggerated.  Yes, Muppets From Space focused primarily on Gonzo and he was narrator of The Muppet Christmas Carol, but Gonzo has been a primary Muppet since they made the first film.  The "lead" Muppets have remain Kermit, Piggy, and Fozzie, but naturally other Muppets became more prominent because of Jim Henson's death and because Frank Oz has a lot more to do than be a puppeteer (and is pushing 70).  My guess is it's simply because Gonzo's one of the few Muppets still performed by the original puppeteer.

 

The Muppets probably do deserve a place in this thread though because, similar to any sketch/variety troupe, people come and go.  In the short lived Muppets Tonight show, they introduced a bunch of new characters to the troupe.  Some were of similar function to previous Muppets, some were completely different.  Clifford filled Kermit's old role as the generally level-headed host foil to the goofy antics and mayhem of the supporting cast.  Johnny Fiama filled the egotistical prima donna role left by Miss Piggy.  Bobo the Bear, however, was a much different animal than Fozzie, and Bill the Bubble Guy or Big Mean Carl were just completely out of left field.

 

Interestingly though, checking the imdb page for the new Muppets film, very few of the newer characters seem to be in it besides the ones that got in Muppets From Space.  And apparently, Frank Oz retired his Muppets to someone else in the early 2000s, which makes me a little irked.  I guess at his age he doesn't want to puppeteer anymore and simply dubbing the voices in would take away from the actual puppeteers performance.

post #44 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill McNeal View Post

I think saying they pushed Gonzo into the lead Muppet focus position is a little exaggerated.  Yes, Muppets From Space focused primarily on Gonzo and he was narrator of The Muppet Christmas Carol, but Gonzo has been a primary Muppet since they made the first film.  The "lead" Muppets have remain Kermit, Piggy, and Fozzie, but naturally other Muppets became more prominent because of Jim Henson's death and because Frank Oz has a lot more to do than be a puppeteer (and is pushing 70).  My guess is it's simply because Gonzo's one of the few Muppets still performed by the original puppeteer.

You're also forgetting that Gonzo & Rizzo follow Jim Hawkins (the protagonist of TREASURE ISLAND) for the entire flick. In Jim's Muppet Trilogy, Gonzo (along with Fozzie) played supporting to Kermit's leading man. Not the case since Jim's death. Not an exaggeration. Simple screen time math.

post #45 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by DARKMITE8 View Post

You're also forgetting that Gonzo & Rizzo follow Jim Hawkins (the protagonist of TREASURE ISLAND) for the entire flick. In Jim's Muppet Trilogy, Gonzo (along with Fozzie) played supporting to Kermit's leading man. Not the case since Jim's death. Not an exaggeration. Simple screen time math.



Good point.  I did forget that.  I haven't seen Muppet Treasure Island in a while, partially because I accidentally bought the pan-and-scan version DVD and that fact always makes me mad when I watch it.  I retract my exaggeration claim.  Thinking about it a little more, I do think though that Rizzo's rise to prominence was much more pronounced.  Rizzo straight-up became a sidekick, the Fozzie to Gonzo's Kermit.

 

It is interesting though how in the post-Jim films before Muppets in Space, Kermit wasn't replaced in terms of story importance but does get one-upped by Gonzo for the aforementioned screen time.  And I don't know much about the new film but it certainly looks like Kermit it getting top Muppet billing.

post #46 of 46

Well, considering its Franchise Me article is quickly approaching, Hellraiser III: Hell On Earth replaced all of the Cenobites with new ones.............aside from Pinhead, of course.  This was, in hindsight, a bad idea.....which is probably why all of the other sequels brought back Chatterer in various forms.  Poor Butterball and Female Cenobite (why was she never officially named?) never got another chance though.

 

 

 

- An interesting question would be whether or not Die Hard With A Vengeance fits the bill?  It originally began as a spec project entitled Simon Says.  It was later turned into a potential Lethal Weapon sequel, but was eventually discarded.  The script was then adapted into a Die Hard sequel, with McClane as Riggs and Zeus as Murtaugh.

 

- The role eventually played by Gary Busey in Predator 2 was originally written as Arnold's character Dutch.  I'm not sure how it would have place out initially, as I find a hard time seeing Dutch as a sleazy government agent.

 

- I like Ray Winstone, but he's no Sallah or Short Round.  The character is a poor replacement, not the actor.  Same goes for Broadbent in place of Denholm Elliot.

 

- As fun as Tracey Walter is in Conan the Destroyer, he's no Subotai.

 

- Hector Elizondo (while I like the guy) also made for a poor replacement of John Ashton in Beverly Hills Cop III.

 

- I laugh every time I see the scene of Christopher Lambert in his Ramirez-esque get-up in Highlander: Endgame.  Connor as mentor?  Great idea.  Connor in a whacky outfit similar to his own mentor?  Not so much.

 

- I thought Sam Jackson was well-suited as Shaft in the 2000 film, as the original's nephew.  It's a shame we never got a sequel so that he and Roundtree had a worthy film to actually star in.  The existing one is decent, but we deserved better.

 

- Poor James Franciscus deserved for his Apes 2 character Brent to be something more than Diet-Taylor.  On the flipside, Cornelius & Zira and Caesar made for EXCELLENT lead replacements.

 

- Bishop was a great replacement for Ash in the Alien franchise.

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