Homeland on Showtime - Page 2

Patinkin doesn't like to be tied down to shows, so an early exit would make sense. It was a great scene, and a total shocker. Great stuff.

Don't know how I feel about the Brody/Danes hook-up. She's self-destructive, so it sort of makes sense. But other than that....

Did anyone notice that they really never show her butt on that show

Must be some kind of contractual deal she made'''

The show itself is awesome and a great story.....lots of twist.i think 

mandy's character  Sol is the mole ..but you never know with Homeland..!!!!

I really like the show but I am concerned about the direction of it with the Danes/Brody hookup. So far I don't like this direction.

But everything else is gold.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stelios 

Really? The "legendary" old hand who's stuck in middle management, answering to people clearly less capable than him, being a mole, for any kind of reasons, is almost a spy fiction cliche. 

 

Finally, I thought I was of an age where I would stop having on screen crushes. But Danes is goddamn ridiculous in this.

But Saul isn't a cliche. This particular character makes no sense as a terrorist mole. We have seen his clear primary motivation: his wife. What mole would request a clear demotion for any reason? Or be allowed to make such a request?  Plus: he's Jewish.

When you add in that we've seen the character laid bare and a surprise reversal would make those scenes empty and silly bits of Oscar-caliber acting by a mole, I just don't see it.

If the show starts lifting wholesale from 24, I'm probably out.

But I'm in total agreement on Danes. She's the most charismatic complete trainwreck of a human being I've seen.

Patinkin is so awesome that unless he becomes the series running super villain, I can't imagine him turning traitor. Fumbling the polygraph was epic. 

Estes continues to fascinate as a character. He seems to have fucked up his entire personal life for Carrie, who in turn shrugs him off completely. Even his griping during the lie detector test earned a mere eye roll. 

Brody and Carrie have fantastic chemistry. Loved the crippled drunk at the service. The entire episode was fantastic. The show is fantastic! 

How many episodes this season, anyone know? 10 or 13? Really looking forward to how the season plays out and how season 2 will be structured...

One criticism: The direction is adequate but it's not transcendent. I know I sound like a punkfor phrasing it that way but I find myself getting a slight Showtime-y vibe. It's still not HBO and it shows. Look to the scene of Faisel being gunned down. It just looked like cable TV. Oh well. Everything else, especially the acting and pacing, is so damn good I can almost embrace this aspect of the series. 

Was not expecting that turn of events, but Danes and Lewis were awesome in that lakeside Q&A. Have to wonder, though, if Brody is still not turned. I'm thinking he has to be, and we'll get some reveal towards the end of the season. Who knows, though? Nice to have no idea where a show is headed when it's this well done.

Can't see Brody being turned at this point. They've made him too sympathetic to be anything more than just mentally screwed up by his ordeal.

Both were indeed great during the Q&A, and Patinkin was great in everything.

Great episode, great twist! They are not afraid to change the status quo...

THis is some great television.

I find myself saying "fuck this is good" every 5 minutes or so, while watching this show. It really is like watching a great spy thriller every time. The performances are amazing and the fact that we are still somewhat questioning one of the main characters motives and loyalties this far in is incredible.

Someone compared this to some of the better seasons of "24" but I say fuck that shit. This blows away 24 in every aspect.

Man, the neo-nazi encounter seemed beamed in from a much, much hackier show, but the rest of the episode was aces.  Blowing up the show's main dramatic engine in the Carrie-Brody dynamic is a bold move, here's hoping they can replace it something equally compelling.

If Claire Danes and Damian Lewis are not nominated for an Emmy, and they don't show that interrogation scene on the porch, somebody is dropping the ball. That was the single best episode of television I've seen all fall season, holy shit, my heart was pounding. I just kept thinking someone is going to shoot someone else. Brilliant writing, amazing acting. It's so great to see a show just fire on all cylinders.

Well, it's now clear that Homeland isn't quite the show I thought it was going to be. It's a better one.

I'd say for sure that Danes and Lewis will both be nominated next year. In fact, in a non-Breaking Bad world, this could be the ep that wins the show a slew of Emmys. Even as is, Danes could be the frontrunner in her category come next year.

Lastly, I'm done calling this "one of the best new shows." Forget "new." It's one of the best shows on TV right now, period.

This is how you do a thriller for grown ups.

And despite much showier scenes it was the second time Carrie and Brody had sex that got me the most. When he pauses and says "I just want to live here...for a second." Poor guy. Brody just keeps getting fucked all through the show, isn't he?

I was thinking last night Bryan Cranston is going to have a real run for his money in best actor category next year. 

I thought this was BB's year for best series but now I'm not so sure. This is really shaping up into something incredible. 

And damn, that was a nice left-field twist. Impossible to see coming, contradicts what we've seen, yet still fits into the story.

What's most impressive is that the show is highly plot-driven, yet has produced three of the most unique and interesting characters on TV. I still have no idea how a 2nd season of this show would work, but as long as Carrie, Brody and Saul are in it, I'll be watching.

Teri Polo clone!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Farsight 

But Saul isn't a cliche. This particular character makes no sense as a terrorist mole. We have seen his clear primary motivation: his wife. What mole would request a clear demotion for any reason? Or be allowed to make such a request?  Plus: he's Jewish.

 

When you add in that we've seen the character laid bare and a surprise reversal would make those scenes empty and silly bits of Oscar-caliber acting by a mole, I just don't see it.

Exactly. It being a cliche is why I don't want the show to go there and doubt that it would. Saul being a mole is the kind of trite, silly choice the show has generally been eschewing in favor of much more nuanced, realistic, and unpredictable stories and characters. And as you point out, it doesn't fit the specifics of how this character has been portrayed on the show even if it does fit a broad character trope in the genre. It would render a lot of what we've seen hollow, turning it into cheap smokescreening rather than real development. I suppose they could still royally fuck things up but so far they've given me pretty strong faith that they're above that kind of thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Matchstick 

Was not expecting that turn of events, but Danes and Lewis were awesome in that lakeside Q&A. Have to wonder, though, if Brody is still not turned. I'm thinking he has to be, and we'll get some reveal towards the end of the season. Who knows, though? Nice to have no idea where a show is headed when it's this well done.

For similar reasons to those I mention above, I kind of hope Brody isn't turned. After all the doubt, and even after throwing this glorious wrench in the works at the halfway point, that would be the most predictable thing to do (and would render the excellent porch interrogation and subsequent cathartic breakdown a lot less powerful). Then again, turning into a straighforward manhunt thriller would be pretty conventional as well. But like I said, I have faith in the show continuing to find interesting directions to take things. At the very least there's going to be fallout from Carrie and Brody's self-destructive actions that will complicate matters.

I have zero problems with this becoming a manhunt from now on. The big character mechanic between Carrie and Brody has finished its first major arc, in a pretty elegant BBC like manner and timing. The big plot mechanic has now been resolved.

The show becoming now all about finding Walker both refreshes it in terms of plot and serves as a great jumping point for part two of everyone's emotional arcs. Plus, I really don't want Carrie to get an easy out by some ridiculous "They were both turned!" twist. 

What's really going to keep the 'manhunt' from being a standard plot is that they're going to need Brody at some point, meaning the train wreck Carrie just careened into is nowhere near over. Saul will not be amused.

For me, the best part of the Carrie/Brody scenes was how it seemed that both of them had actually found peace - Carrie didn't even need her pills - and then it was gone in an instant. I don't think they make a, "Sorry I accused you of being in Al-Qaeda" card...

Quote:

Originally Posted by stelios 
Plus, I really don't want Carrie to get an easy out by some ridiculous "They were both turned!" twist.

 

 

Definitely. I love the idea of the protagonist being totally wrong. I'd love for them to not redeem her at all, though I'd be okay with it happening just a little, at least professionally (which the Walker plotline could allow), as long as they don't fully validate her. That would make her like the ultimate subversion of the "reckless loose canon who plays by his/her own rules but gets results, damnit!" Perhaps even to a greater extent than, say, McNulty from THE WIRE. It also creates a nice contrast with Saul, whose comparatively restrained, patient, by the book approach and underlying sense of compassion and right and wrong have so far proven to be much more effective (which is another reason I don't want him to be a mole).

Inside The Episode- The Weekend

So according to that, Brody is emphatically not turned. And the show does indeed change direction. Great news.

Also interesting, them saying that Carrie's slip up with the tea may even have been intentional, to set up the interrogation. So maybe Carrie was pulling a Saul on Brody but with intimacy instead of childhood memories and the whole weekend was a set-up.

It was telling that her belief that he was turned never wavered even as they bared their souls to each other. She never even hedged.

"So they think I'm an agent of Al-Qaeda?"

"-I- think you're an agent of Al-Qaeda!"

There was a away of handling that discussion that wouldn't have completely crushed Brody. But she's not capable of that. Which is certainly way more interesting.

This was another awesome understated episode of surprisingly solid and subtle character work, with a sucker punch ending. I'm not so sure I know how to feel about it. After last week's masterful episode we barely went forty minutes with Brody as a non terrorist, and now we're back again to suspecting him. Maybe I'm too hyper aware of this show's 24 origins, but I'm starting to be weary. 

I was far more interested in the chilling aftermath of the FBI gunning down two innocent muslims and declaring it wouldn't matter much. Fantastic television. 

I was a little disappointed with that final scene, but I remain hopeful that it's either not what it seems, or if it is, that they can put an interesting spin on it. Also wasn't crazy about the stuff with Walker's wife. It was convincingly acted but never the less a predictable, cliched turn of events. Despite those two complaints, this was overall another really good hour of television. Loved the compare and contrast between all the characters' domestic lives (or lack thereof, in Carrie's case).

I hated the ending. Hated it. Not nearly enough to even begin to nullify all the goodwill I have for this show but I have to say it again. I hated it. Way to fucking discard all of Brody's arc. Way to give Carrie an easy way out. Dumbasses.

It's obvious I've been giving the show too much credit. Unearned credit. I'll keep watching but with readjusted expectations. 

I think Stelios is going a little overboard, but, yeah -- I didn't dig the ending either. It was so exciting last week to think that they'd laid all the cards on the table with regard to Brody and that the rest of the season would play out as more of a straight-forward drama with these two fascinating, damaged characters in the middle of it. Now, we're back to wondering if one of them is a 24-esque super-villain. After how great this show has been so far, I'm willing to give the writers the benefit of the doubt here. But I am suddenly wary.

I went a little too far but my reaction was to scale with how high I was on the show previously. Like when you're at a party and you get a nice buzz going and the party seems like it's going to be the best party ever? And then a friend of yours splashes you on the face with cold water? Yeah, the party isn't ruined, it may very well turn out to be great, but the buzz is gone. And at the moment it happens it sucks . Big time.

If there's one thing the show has been good at it, it's keeping us on our toes. If this were 24 (though the writers once did that) I'd expect it to play out like 24. It's not, it's already so different. Right now, we have bits and pieces of the whole picture. Remember when we saw Brody praying to the east? We all knew he was a terrorist then. Then our judgment changes, now it changes again. I can honestly say that I have no idea what is going to happen with anyone and it's exciting. Is it cliche what they did? Yes. But I absolutely have to believe that this is a calculated move on the writers' part and as the show progresses, we'll go even further down the rabbit hole they've set for us.

And if I'm wrong, then...rage away, Stel, rage away.

From your mouth to Allah's ear, Doc.

God's ear! I meant God's ear! Gee, I hope no one was listening. 

Actually, when I saw him praying I first became half convinced he wasn't a terrorist. It's an unfortunate by product of being a savvy viewer of a show predicated on twists. You're always second guessing everything.  I cannot fully engage with the characters if I have the possibility that they're lying to me too, instead of to each other.

This is why I LOVED the previous episode, with everyone's cards laid out on the table.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stelios 

It's obvious I've been giving the show too much credit. Unearned credit. I'll keep watching but with readjusted expectations. 

No. The credit was earned. Regardless of what is yet to come, the credit was EARNED.

I'm not crazy about that ending either, but I'm giving them a week of trust due to how well handled the show has been to date.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stelios 

Like when you're at a party and you get a nice buzz going and the party seems like it's going to be the best party ever? And then a friend of yours splashes you on the face with cold water? Yeah, the party isn't ruined, it may very well turn out to be great, but the buzz is gone. And at the moment it happens it sucks . Big time.

 

has that ever happened to you, stelios? also, i want to call you chelios, as i imagine you stomping the tv a la staham in the first crank after this past episode.

i will say this: i miss billings and his weirdo brother. great characters cast to the wayside. over / under on them reappearing this season?

looking forward to the reappearance of billings next week.

the bit with the bonding of brody and the kid was predictable and cliche, but nonetheless effective. i admire the shoe for unflinchingly portraying the US as assholes.

On the plus side, they handled it in a decidedly non-24 way, which is to say that there was some nuance, subtlety, and solid character work going; on the negative, I'm still not happy with the overall direction it's going, and yeah, the arc of Brody's relationship with the kid was predictable - though it's still a better and more organic reason for Brody to turn than just being straight up brainwashed. I guess you could argue that's what Nasir was doing anyway, but it's not like he could have planned a US drone attack. It doesn't seem like full on MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE shit right now, though this show certainly has a tendency to throw curveballs... Also, they're still trying to make the audience wonder if Saul is a mole, right? Cut that shit out. I remain hopeful and still really like the show overall but my lofty expectations continue to be tampered by mild disappointment. Maybe that's for the best, so that if (or hopefully when) they're able reach the level of the episode at the cabin again it will be earth-shattering.

I bet Walker actually goes for the Vice President and somehow things end up with Brody as the hero. Though I never did understand Manchurian Candidate type scenarios. Even if you got someone all the way to the White House what would all your trouble gain you? Policy? The US are not some absolute monarchy where the president can do what he wants despite the entire government. Info? I doubt the President knows anything many other infinitely more reachable people don't.

Yeah, mildly disappointed in this last one. It by no means wipes away the good the show has done, but it just felt so...24, as stated above, but done in a far more convincing manner. This felt like a holding pattern episode, things were explained but not really moved forward. We definitely needed a larger look at Brody's time in captivity, I just had hoped they were going to handle it in a better way.

That being said, Damian Lewis continues to be excellent. I really got a kick out of his grocery store excursion at the beginning of the episode; love the fish out of water element they sometimes bring up.

It'd be mind-boggling if they sent Walker to kill Brody during Brody's attempt on the vice president.

Still a great show. An okay episode that probably would seem better than it is if it weren't for the phenomenal earlier episodes. I know not everything can be The Weekend, but it's still disappointing when things don't get to that level.

I'll stick with it but it's losing me a bit. Shame. No matter how well acted, the characters seem to have lost their spark. And the plot started veering dangerously close to the dreaded 24.

Judging from the preview we're regrettably being set up for another rope-a-dope in the next episode. 

THERE'S A MOLE IN CTU!

DAMMIT!

Did 24 showrunners hijack all of Showtime's lineup? Next up, we'll find out one of the kids in Shameless is actually working for Child Protection Services!

Shameless can do anything it wants as long as it allows me to perv on Emmy Rossum and that crazy chick.

I'm still digging it. Carrie and Brody's parallel manipulations worked for me. 

The bombing was nicely done as well. My favorite part was Saul's very quiet post-explosion, "carrie?" It would've been so standard to have him yelling at that moment, but the near-whisper was so much more raw.

At the time I wondered if the diplomat had just posted a "I've been discovered" sign instead of the real meeting one. If not, this is the first "mole" incident that couldn't have been performed by Brody, right?

It's Saul or the guy whose name escapes me who slept with Carrie and ruined his marriage.

So, so into this show.  Absolutely loved the characters.  And pushing it a little bit more towards 24 doesn't worry me as there are a couple seasons of that show that I found really, really great.

These days I live in fear of two potential entertainment events:

1. That Christopher Nolan will take "The Epic Conclusion to the Dark Knight Legend" one step too far in The Dark Knight Rises and ...

2. ... Saul will end up being a bad guy on Homeland. 

I'm with Farsight in loving Saul's whisper of "Carrie?" in the bombing aftermath. Awesome, awesome, awesome.

And I can't tell if Saul's hospital room affirmation of Carrie's Brody suspicions was supposed to be sold as "You were right all along, kiddo," or "Keep on thinking you were right all along, kiddo, because it's all part of my master plan that you continue to do so." The way he listed everything he was pinning on Brody, from the razor blade right on down, made me nervous. I certainly don't think Saul's a mole, and I'd like to think the show would be above such a "Gotcha!" ... but you never know. It would be so cheap.

Damian Lewis is awesome. I never know when Brody's being sincere and when he's being a master manipulator. Brody probably doesn't always know, either, which makes it all the more compelling. Lots of really fascinating acting choices going on there.

And a major seconding of all the Claire Danes love -- I wore out the rewind button on my DVR remote from voraciously replaying her "FUCK THIS SHIT!" explosion at Saul from several weeks ago. That was even hotter to me than topless Morena Baccarin. 

Two episodes left. I'm just as curious to see how it all ends as I am to see where they go for the second season. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Bierly 

And I can't tell if Saul's hospital room affirmation of Carrie's Brody suspicions was supposed to be sold as "You were right all along, kiddo," or "Keep on thinking you were right all along, kiddo, because it's all part of my master plan that you continue to do so." The way he listed everything he was pinning on Brody, from the razor blade right on down, made me nervous. I certainly don't think Saul's a mole, and I'd like to think the show would be above such a "Gotcha!" ... but you never know. It would be so cheap.

More than that, it would hurt.  I like Saul, goddammit.  (With all the talk of Walker's expert sniper skills, I was seriously nervous during that bit where Saul has dinner in his office.  Those open windows really made me uncomfortable for a few seconds.)

So, am I the only one that feels that the show has taken a hit post The Weekend? I just seem to care less and less about the characters. 

I find myself more involved in the show than ever, honestly. I get your criticisms and I do feel the same way, but the show remains utterly engrossing for me. 

Take all the peripheral red shirts. The evil Saudi diplomat turns out to be a homosexual pro-Western in debt. The evil domestic wife is an expatriate academic rich girl who fell in love with a boy the West forbade and got in way over her head. Billings' weirdo brother, the call girl/ CI that got killed, even CornFed SquareJaw who fucked Brody's wife; believable, three-dimensional characters. They all feel real. Saul, Brody, and Carrie are the three best characters currently on TV in my opinion.

This last episode continued to impress. I hope the explosion is the biggest the action gets this year. Even that felt like too much really. If they want to keep the understated and hyper-realistic tone, they can't do that every week, or even every season. The rest of the action has to play out without any media coverage. It was highly disturbing. 

Saul smearing peanut butter on a cracker with a ruler while Miles Davis plays was the absolute antithesis of all of 24, and for that reason alone am an unabashed fan of this show. 

I do agree with you that the Weekend was most likely the high point of the season. 

I fully admit that it is because of my own thought process rather than some huge drop in the show's quality. Whenever a show or a movie starts veering closer to twist of the week territory I tend to disengage emotionally and start observing rather than experiencing.