FRANCHISE ME: HELLBOUND: HELLRAISER II

I've seen this movie at least 50 times and never once noticed that Chatterer suddenly got eyeballs at some point in the film. Now I want to watch it again.

 

I love this bit of dialogue from the female Cenobite to Kirsty:

 

"Didn't open the box. And what was it last time? Didn't know what the box was. And yet, we do keep finding each other, don't we?"

I always get the psych ward scenes in this and the psych ward scenes in Jacob's Ladder mixed up.  I've always felt the two movies share a fucked up kind of kinship.

 

Glad to see the column back and I look forward to your thoughts on Hell of Earth.

"IT IS NOT HANDS THAT CALL US......IT IS DESIRE!"

 

Solid sequel, and one of the better second films in any horror franchise. I'll go as far as saying that Mr. Browning is the most frightening character of the entire franchise.

Any word on why we had a different actress as the Female Cenobite.  As for Frank's "hell" of temptation, I always figured that was his punishment for escaping the Cenobites in the previous film.

 

Anyway, this is my favorite entry in the franchise............with the first being a close second.  I actually tend to look at them as one giant film though.  Great entry, Josh!  I hope we don't have to wait too long for the third installment!  I'm jealous as shit about your Fantastic Fest trip and am psyched to have you back.  I've been jonesing like mad to continue watching the series (almost to an unhealthy level at this point) and have so far kept myself from from watching too far ahead.  Now, if you will excuse me, I'm off to watch Hell On Earth...

From Outlaw Vern's review of Phantasm IV:

 

 

 

I'm completely out of step with the rest of fandom when it comes to this movie.  It was a reeking disappointment after the first movie and I was really pissed that they rushed the sequel into production without a decent script.  And I couldn't agree more with Vern.  The last thing I wanted to do with some of the greatest movie monsters of the 80s was to feel pity for them as they get cheap slasher movie deaths and then lose all their cool make-up.  Don't explain them.  Don't make them human.  Spare me this Anakin Skywalker redemptive death bullshit.

 

Things I liked:

"You're suffering will be legendary, even in--" etc.

Skinless Julia walking around all slinky and sexy.

Her resurrection, particularly the percussive music.

Some other random bits and pieces that I've long forgotten.

 

Things I hated:

Infecting this franchise with Freddy one-liners ("The doctor is in!" or whatever)

Channard Cenobite yelling like some dude planking a washing machine during a spin cycle with his dick stuck in the door

The insta-change skins in Hell that come complete with vocal cords, allowing you instantly look and sound like someone else

The world's largest, fanciest Toberlone box doesn't even have the screen presence of Doug Bradley's little finger.

And, well, most of it.  I haven't bothered to watch the movie for well over 20 years.  Maybe this discussion will get me to look again.

If you haven't seen a movie in 20 years I don't know how you can feel comfortable discussing it. I feel uncomfortable discussing movies I haven't seen in 5 years.

 

I literally just finished watching this for the first time, as Joshua's previous entry for Hellraiser made me decide to give this franchise a go. I liked it a lot. I don't think it's necessarily a good movie, but it's definitely an interesting one. I think it falls under the category of films like David Lynch's Dune, The Exorcist II and Zardoz, where the films may not be "technically" good in the traditional sense, the ideas involved are just so batshit weird and crazy that it's hard not to be enamored with what you're seeing. I don't think that we gain pathos for Pinhead knowing that he used to be human, if anything it just serves to expand upon the scope. Hellraiser 1 felt very insular, only giving a sense that there was a larger picture, but Hellbound opens things up without running all of the ideas into the ground. I think it's a really great sequel. 

 

The thing I find interesting about the Cenobites is that they really don't have any goals or plans, in which I mean if humans were to leave the puzzle boxes alone, they would just be content to do their own thing. The perfect example of this is the way they treat Tiffany. She has no yearning for sights unseen and feelings unfelt so they leave her alone. The only souls they take are the ones that driven to search them out to sate their own yearnings. I find that a truly fascinating and unique concept for horror monsters. 

 

Side note: As for Phantasm, we never learn shit about the Tall Man. We learned that an old Civil War doctor figured out how to build some kind of portal, and one day he went through and then the Tall Man came out in his stead. It's never explained exactly who/what the Tall Man is or what he wants. 

100% agreed on all counts.

 

What always fascinated me, but ultimately disappoints, about this movie is the implications of Kirsty as a character. Her continuous encounters with the Cenobites suggest a disturbed psyche, possibly brought on from abuses by her uncle Frank or something as simple as the death of her mother.

 

Still, and even though the kind-of-horrible sixth movie attempts a go, Kirsty is always the lily white girl scout that cannot be tarnished. There's also a sense that bringing her back for the sequel is setting her up as a nemesis for the villain, Nancy to Freddy or Tommy Jarvis to Jason Voorhes, but like the article pointed out there's a false start on deciding who the main villain is: Julia or Pinhead? 

 

There's also been a bit of fascinating misinterpretation, I believe, of the metaphysics of Leviathan in the article and this thread. Frank explicitly says: "Come on Kirsty, grow up. When you're dead, you're fucking dead!"

 

Leviathan is not the Christian Hell, it's a personal hell, as foreshadowed by the earlier quote by Channard during the surgery scene that foreshadows this: "The mind is a labyrinth, ladies and gentlemen, a puzzle. And while the paths of the brain are plainly visible, its ways deceptively apparent, its destinations are unknown. Its secrets still secret. And, if we are honest, it is the lure of the labyrinth that draws us to our chosen field to unlock those secrets. Others have been here before us and have left us signs, but we, as explorers of the mind, must devote our lives and energies to going further to tread the unknown corridors in order to find ultimately, the final solution. We have to see, we have to know..."

 

There's no judgment in Leviathan, but perhaps Frank's punishment is the Cenobites having a bit of payback. 

"Where's my father?!?!?"

"He is in his own hell............and quite unreachable."

 

In most horror films, I'd say the "villain" (Pinhead in this case) would be taunting the lead with such a statement................but the Cenobites aren't ones to lie or deceive.  It does beg the question of how Hell operates in this world.  I definitely agree that it isn't the "Christian Hell".  It almost feels more like a Purgatory-esque world.

 

I also like the fact that you bring up the fact that Kirsty continues to have encounters with the Cenobites.  I'm convinced at this point that Frank abused her as a child and am becoming increasingly convinced that the Cenobites really didn't backstab her on their deal in the first film.  Whether Kirsty will admit it or not, I think there is definitely a reason their paths keep crossing.  This becomes even more clear when one realizes that they obviously have zero interest in interacting with Tiffany in Hellbound.  In fact, had things turned out different, I suspect they would have "played" with Kirsty and still let Tiffany go.  She is innocent and untainted, despite having a traumatic past..................unlike Kirsty, whose past traumas seem to have informed her current life.

 

Spoiler, I auppose.
 

Really?

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

Edited by The Dark Shape - 10/8/11 at 10:00am

You might want to Spoiler Text that, Dark Shape.

 

Swipe the spoilers...Yes, but in retaliation against a sleazy cheating husband. The sixth movie, considering Kirsty has very little screen time, does not take the time to explore the implications of her actions. 

Hellbound is not only my favorite Hellraiser film or one of my favorite horror films, it is one of my favorite films period.  I know that it has a cut rate, rushed feel to it at times, but that coupled with the over reaching aspects of the story and outrageous costume design, effects and score make it seem so much more immediate and insistent.  It's one of those rare films that is dripping with atmosphere and well versed in the aberrant psychology at play with a multitude of varying characters, yet can also serve as a gory moster movie.  Channard makes this film and Cranham's delivery and presence are incredible.  Bradley and Higgins are dependably awesome and even Lawrence steps up her game.  The Christopher Young score is so lush and memorably upsetting.  I wish horror movies nowadays (apart from Drag me to Hell I guess) had the temerity and talent to go that epic with the proceedings. 

 

I've always disliked Hell on Earth because it feels completely removed from the direction of Hellbound and seems content to wallow in 80's rubber reality convention and hacky NOES sequel style quipping.  To go from the devastating creation of Channard to the likes of flaming mojito bartender, Compact disc shooter and handlebar mustache camera eye cenobite is unforgivable.  Just when the series was heading into the baroque, esoteric and unknowable, Hellraiser 3 dragged it into the tawdry and obvious.  Apart from Oblivion, which I quite enjoy, the series never recovered.

I've always liked the idea that everyone gets their own private Hell based on how they lived. That does seem like the perfect punishment.

Do we need to do spoilers?  It's a movie that's almost a decade old.
 

 

She opens the box of her own free will in that movie, knowing the sort of chaos it's gonna wreak.  She goes in preparing to make that deal 'cause she's vengeful as all hell.

 

The potential for corruption in Kirsty, and the magnetic appeal that her obssessive personality holds for the Cenobites, is also the backbone of the plot in the limited series comic that Clive Barker is writing for Boom! Studios (issue #5 of 8 is currently on stands.)

I've been following the book since it premiered this spring, and aside from the use of the Harrowers concept from Marvel's Hellraiser comics from the early 90's, it's a much more direct sequel to Hellbound than any of the films other than 2002's Hellseeker (the one where Kirsty returns.)

I re-watched the movie the other night, planning to arm myself with material against the naysayers but found myself getting increasingly bored with the whole disjointed mess.  It takes far too long to build up to too short an  anticlimax.  Some great gore and designs but little in the way of mood or atmosphere.

 

Overall, the added backstory around Pinhead doesn't bother me.  There are so many unanswered questions around the person he was that it adds more to the mystique than anything else.  It also justifies Channard's horrible puns in the sense that Julia fucked up and brought someone to become a Cenobite who didn't deserve it.  Behind his quiet British reserve, once he gets the worn on his head and is able to cut loose, he turns into a drunken yob more deserving of an ASBO than the pleasures of the flesh..  

There're also hints of story elements from Everille and The Great and Secret Show as well. Bought the Trade Paperback and enjoying it.

 

Anybody read the Cenobite/Nightbreed miniseries Jyhad long ago?

 

I agree that the sixth movie presents a definite fall from grace for Kirsty, but vengeance is far too relatable of a need. Frank, by comparison, had an almost unknowable itch that had to be scratched, a twisted bit of selfish perversion. In actuality Kirsty's husband sought out the box first, so she was simply retaliating which is not fucked up enough for a Hellraiser movie imho.
 

 

Say WHAT?!?!?

 

Oh yes. It was a 2 part Comic miniseries from the 90's.

 

Elements of the Cenobites declare war against the Nightbreed. We even got a Baphomet vs Leviathan scene.

Nice!  I really hope Clive makes good on his promise someday to write Cabal 2&3.  Perhaps we'll be lucky enough to see it happen once he finishes his Abarat series.

Been years since I read it (I remember being disappointed) but didn't it have something to do with the beings of law (Cenobites) getting fed up with the chaos of the Nightbreed?  I'll give it to Epic Marvel, they milked the franchises for all they were worth.  The Hellraiser comics were hit and miss with some moments of greatness (Gaimen & McKean's Wordsmith comes to mind where instead of the box, the doorway to hell is a crossword puzzle).  The Nightbreed comics started strong but lost the plot after Rawhead Rex was retconned into them.

Apparently there is a time and place when the Cenobites are supposed to declare war against the Nightbreed. Some elements of the Cenobites defy Pinhead to jump start it early. Interestingly enough, Baphomet is referred to as a "Brother Deity" to Leviathan.

Never knew about this until now. Thanks gentlemen.

 

 

These comics just made my priority reading list. Fuck Yeah MIDIAN!!!

I have these! Thought they were awesome when I was 16 years old, but a re-read could prove otherwise.

 

My favorite Hellraiser comic story from back in the day was the one where the pianist/composer was obsessed with discovering a very specific line of notes -- a melody lost to time -- that would function like the puzzle box and open the door to the Cenobites' dimension. Anyone else remember that one?

 

I remember it very well.  Wasn't that the one Peter Atkins, writer of Hellbound: Hellraiser 2 wrote? (Just to bring this full circle)

Hmm, could have been. I need to see if I still have it.

 

I'm looking at my copies now. The writer is credited as D. G. Chichester, who was the editor of Marvel's Epic Comics imprint at the time.

The writing on the 90's Nightbreed and Hellraiser comics reads as a little quaint now, like reading the efforts white writers made in the 70's to make Blade and Luke Cage speak in jive. The characterization of Peloquin, in particular, clearly dates to the same period that Marvel was experimenting with making heroes out of monsters like Venom and Sabretooth; it's just a very sheltered city boy's vanilla notions of how a cool, badass monster would speak.

With that said, I have some affection for those books. The idea that Barker's Hell gravitates toward obssession of any kind is an interesting interpretation, one that Marvel used to great effect to add some variety to the ranks of the Cenobites, and an idea that Barker is running with in the comic he's been writing for Boom! Studios.

And I absolutely adore the idea that the Theology section of Hell's library holds Pazuzu's Second Epistle to the Sodomites.

Quote:

My bad.  I was thinking of volume 3: Song on Metal and Flesh which was written by Atkins.