or Connect
CHUD.com Community › Forums › THE MAIN SEWER › CHUD.COM Main › STEVE JOBS HAS PASSED AWAY
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

STEVE JOBS HAS PASSED AWAY - Page 2

post #51 of 358

The hyperbole is indeed out of hand in some places -- the world keeps on spinning today -- but claiming that the words "great" and "visionary" somehow don't apply to Jobs is asinine. The guy obviously deserves that much.

post #52 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelios View Post

Equally, as in not at all? Yes.

 

If I choose to make fun of ridiculously exaggerated nonsense, what's it off your back? Is your life more miserable?  

 



I'm not the one approaching religious levels of righteous indignation.

post #53 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rain Dog View Post

 

Christ thank you Andy - that's exactly what I was saying.

 

it's the outrageous hyperbole and what that says about our priorities in the west at this point in the human experiment I was making comment on. The fact is he was a genius entrepeneur - but that puts him in the same camp as Richard Branson, not god-damn Thomas Edison.

 

The man was no visionary - very very good at picking the right people - but a visionary looks to ways to enrich ALL of our lives long term - a visionary doesn't encourage people to trade up to another product every 6-12 months, or happily let their vision become everything they supposedly railed against when they started out (the monolithic corporate monopoly of IBM) A visionary doesn't happily move jobs offshore while unemployment cripples the country at home only to have them taken up by glorified indentured chinese slave workers working for five cents an hour or some such.

 

Now that said, I'm not saying he was a bad person or anything else - like I said the man was one of the great entrepeneurs of the last century - but that's all he was. "Influential" most certainly, but 'great'? That's a judgement call I don't know if most in the west these days understand enough to make.

 

He was an amazing business man - is that really enough to be considered 'great' nowadays? Have we really lost our way that much?

 

Sure maybe to Apple shareholders he was a visionary and a messiah for making them money hand over fist, but whats seemingly everyone elses excuse?

 

 

You're not making a lot of sense here.  By limiting his influence to JUST the Western world you clearly show your ignorance. It's as if you think Jobs has only been around for the last decade or something.  The dude made the PC what it is today and revolutionized multiple industries.  How the hell didn't the PC change the world, and what do you have against business in general?  What do you mean he was "just" an entrepreneur considering what he created has benefitted all of mankind, either directly or indirectly? 


Edited by Pepe - 10/6/11 at 6:32am
post #54 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson View Post


I'm not the one approaching religious levels of righteous indignation.


Stupid cut and paste ate my response. 

 

To make it short. If you tell me you're sad because you feel an emotional connection to him and his products, I'll accept it. If you tell me you're sad because of his innovations, I will not. Making the mouse a primary interface device for PCs does not cause sad photoshops and youtube tributes.

post #55 of 358

As for the argument that he's not that important because he brought together the best minds....horseshit.  Nearly every technology is developed in a collaborative environment.  It takes someone like Jobs to see it through and integrate it into society.  Not that Jobs is on the same genius level of Einstein, but Einstein didn't work in an intellectual vacuum either.

post #56 of 358

Isn't this a movie website?

 

PIXAR, PEOPLE. FUCKING PIXAR.

post #57 of 358

Funny how the noble crusades against hyperbole and truly cutting-edge senses of perspective have spilled out at a much higher ratio than PK's melodrama and aggrandizing. I get it, you want to reality check everyone into reacting at the exact emotional and intellectual level that you have determined is appropriate. Thanks, that is crystal clear at this point. As for the other issue... you're not going to stop her.

 

I have no problem with disagreements or different perspectives. What I think sucks is that the tone of the tread was immediately set and then continually stoked to be a meta-thread in which everyone argues about their argument and says the same stuff over and over, mostly because people still weren''t capable of ignoring a person they don't like. Yeah, that's the internet, but I've seen threads be better.

post #58 of 358

RIP Steve Jobs.  Thanks for all the cool stuff you gave to me and to the world.  Cancer sucks.

post #59 of 358
I just thought some here may be gratified to know that in the wake of what Woz describes as an event where humanity has "lost something we cannot get back", impromptu memorials have been springing up world wide outside APPLE STORES:

856e1bc2.jpg
59c7d7bd.jpg

The world over, millions mourn, so don't let those Westboro cretins get you down

EDIT: if I had to take a guess, I'd say they're upset that unlike the Christian god, of whom no one has seen hide nor heel for going on 2000 odd years, within our lifetimes Jobs busied himself changing the very nature of our daily reality. They understand that Jobs was, in the way that one who bends the world to his vision is, a kind of god, and his works were written in glass, and aluminum and plastic. Jobs and his influence will be felt long after their religiously inspired hatred has been cast down and forgotten

(http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/05/steve-jobs-memorials_n_997433.html)
Edited by Princess Kate - 10/6/11 at 8:35am
post #60 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renn Brown View Post

I have no problem with disagreements or different perspectives. What I think sucks is that the tone of the tread was immediately set and then continually stoked to be a meta-thread in which everyone argues about their argument and says the same stuff over and over, mostly because people still weren''t capable of ignoring a person they don't like. Yeah, that's the internet, but I've seen threads be better.


OK. What should have been the tone of the thread?

 

He made cool stuff. PIXAR. Cancer sucks. Repeat. That's all the non opinionated, non confrontational, non meta things you can say about this. And they have been covered pretty well by you. But then you'd have a eulogy instead of a discussion.

 

Maybe the thread should have been more like the post above mine.

post #61 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelios View Post

OK. What should have been the tone of the thread?

 

He made cool stuff. PIXAR. Cancer sucks. Repeat. That's all the non opinionated, non confrontational, non meta things you can say about this. And they have been covered pretty well by you. But then you'd have a eulogy instead of a discussion.

 

Maybe the thread should have been more like the post above mine.


How about a tone of appreciation about the man's accomplishments? And Jobs' significance is a lot more than "making cool stuff". Of course, any mere Human's accomplishments can never equal the value of some Internet Snarksters......

 

post #62 of 358

Here's a quote from Steve Jobs that offers some real perspective (From a Commencement address at Stanford in 2005):

 

“No one wants to die. Even people who want to go to heaven don’t want to die to get there. And yet death is the destination we all share. No one has ever escaped it. And that is as it should be, because Death is very likely the single best invention of Life. It is Life’s change agent. It clears out the old to make way for the new. Right now the new is you, but someday not too long from now, you will gradually become the old and be cleared away. Sorry to be so dramatic, but it is quite true.

 

“Your time is limited, so don’t waste it living someone else’s life. Don’t be trapped by dogma — which is living with the results of other people’s thinking. Don’t let the noise of others’ opinions drown out your own inner voice. And most important, have the courage to follow your heart and intuition. They somehow already know what you truly want to become. Everything else is secondary.”

post #63 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon Baby View Post

Here's a quote from Steve Jobs that offers some real perspective (From a Commencement address at Stanford in 2005):

 

“No one wants to die. Even people who want to go to heaven don’t want to die to get there. And yet death is the destination we all share. No one has ever escaped it. And that is as it should be, because Death is very likely the single best invention of Life. It is Life’s change agent. It clears out the old to make way for the new. Right now the new is you, but someday not too long from now, you will gradually become the old and be cleared away. Sorry to be so dramatic, but it is quite true.

 

“Your time is limited, so don’t waste it living someone else’s life. Don’t be trapped by dogma — which is living with the results of other people’s thinking. Don’t let the noise of others’ opinions drown out your own inner voice. And most important, have the courage to follow your heart and intuition. They somehow already know what you truly want to become. Everything else is secondary.”


Profound words we'd all do well to heed. Thank you so much for sharing with us the wit and wisdom of this most remarkable man, Cylon Baby
post #64 of 358

I think people who are dismissive of Jobs' influence in this thread, have a very general point: He did not solve our addiction to fossil fuels or reverse the tide of climate change. Congrats, point taken. I mean, if you want to make a point about how those types of battles aren't won anymore, and the best we can ever hope to expect from corporate America is Jobs, then fine. But that does not diminish any of the eulogizing people are doing about the guy.

 

Bottom line-- for everyone who is a creative, trying to make something great or special in a capitalist society instead of just looking for the biggest slice of cake, he was undoubtedly one of the greatest inspirations. So it's no shock that tech and movie types are a bit more worked up about his passing than your average person. Like Renn said, this was a man who was considered to be one of the most important figures in the popular arts in addition to being *the* CEO of our lifetime. You'll have to excuse me if I get a little emo upon his passing.

post #65 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon Baby View Post




How about a tone of appreciation about the man's accomplishments? And Jobs' significance is a lot more than "making cool stuff". Of course, any mere Human's accomplishments can never equal the value of some Internet Snarksters......

 


What if I honestly do not like his influence on technology, especially since his second coming at Apple? Should I simply not participate? If the thread is supposed to be a eulogy, say so and I'll stay out. 

 

 

post #66 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelios View Post

What if I honestly do not like his influence on technology, especially since his second coming at Apple? Should I simply not participate? If the thread is supposed to be a eulogy, say so and I'll stay out.

 


One, I do think it's kind of fucked up to take the topic in that direction in a thread dedicated to his passing.

 

Two, I honestly don't even get the sentiment. Either you use Apple products or you use products that were designed by people inspired by and/or trying to get a leg up on Apple. Unless you're a fan of ... I don't know ... typewriters?

 

post #67 of 358

Yes, as a film fan, I can see why you would dislike that he created a film studio that prioritizes creativity and storytelling above all else. To put a finer point on it, imagine if Pixar was run by George Lucas. <shudder>


Edited by Pop Zeus - 10/6/11 at 9:57am
post #68 of 358
Quote:

Steve Jobs, Proud to Be Nonunion

Wired magazine, 2007

 

"I believe that what is wrong with our schools in this nation is that they have become unionized in the worst possible way," the Apple CEO told a school-reform conference in Texas on Saturday. "This unionization and lifetime employment of K-12 teachers is off-the-charts crazy."
 

 

Interesting article.

post #69 of 358

Wow -- I never actually realized how absurd the cult of personality and basically idol worship that's been built around Jobs actually was until now. It's all well and good if you feel an emotional connection to a celebrity, and perhaps your connection to Jobs is more legitimate in some way than having an attachment to, say, an actor or something -- but I think it's important to realize how the emotional outpouring we see going on here is more the result of a triumph of commercialism, marketing, and consumer manipulation than anything truly "genuine."

 

People have an attachment to Apple products because they are marketed as an extension of yourself -- they transformed the stereotypically cerebral and austere world of computers into something you could invest yourself into and grow attachments towards. You define your personality and become a certain type of person by owning a Mac and you forget that it's just an object -- the outpouring of grief and shock at the death of Jobs indicates the emotional intensity of this connection, for which he is really just a symbol.

 

I think people like Kate would be smart to remember: you're not your fucking khakis, and all that.

post #70 of 358
post #71 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by zak chase View Post




One, I do think it's kind of fucked up to take the topic in that direction in a thread dedicated to his passing.

 


Thank you for the answer.

 

 

post #72 of 358
While I was waiting for my dads B-Day party to start, I created this mini memorial for Mr Jobs:

872c6e77.jpg

 It's not the best I could have done (I should have gotten my PowerBook G4, my 40 gig CLICKWHEEL iPod, my iPod TOUCH, my sister's iPod nano, our Mac Classic, my 17 inch G4 iMac, our old Powermac, and my sisters iPhone 4 in the frame, but I didn't have them on hand)

In the center there you can see our iMac DV SPECIAL EDITION, a computer Mr Jobs declared at MACWORLD 1999 to be "the most beautiful iMac ever"

EDIT: hat tip to my mom for her nice handwriting on my memorial sign
Edited by Princess Kate - 10/6/11 at 11:09am
post #73 of 358
I'll just leave this here.

1200
post #74 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon Baby View Post

(Sigh).

 

Steve Jobs created the first mass produced Personal Computer (PC). Prior to the Apple I & II, if you as an individual wanted a computer, you had to 1) spend big money for timeshare on a mainframe or 2) buy a kit which you then had to assemble, and sometimes you had to physically re-arrange circuits or components to make it work, and was very limited in what it could do.

 

 

I was going to stat out of this thread but NO HE FUCKING DIDN'T.

 

Sir Clive Sinclair inventor of the Sinclar ZX Spectrum was the man who invented the home computer.

 

Chirs Curry inventor of the BBC Acorn started the race to mass produce (and rival with Sinclair)

 

And Lord Alan Sugar bought it all home with the Amstrad CPC 464.

 

Oh and Steve Jobs was a great salesman, the people he employed did all the work.

 

Having said that Cancer is a bitch and my thoughts are with his family.

post #75 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon Baby View Post

Here's a quote from Steve Jobs that offers some real perspective (From a Commencement address at Stanford in 2005):

 

“No one wants to die. Even people who want to go to heaven don’t want to die to get there. And yet death is the destination we all share. No one has ever escaped it. And that is as it should be, because Death is very likely the single best invention of Life. It is Life’s change agent. It clears out the old to make way for the new. Right now the new is you, but someday not too long from now, you will gradually become the old and be cleared away. Sorry to be so dramatic, but it is quite true.

 

“Your time is limited, so don’t waste it living someone else’s life. Don’t be trapped by dogma — which is living with the results of other people’s thinking. Don’t let the noise of others’ opinions drown out your own inner voice. And most important, have the courage to follow your heart and intuition. They somehow already know what you truly want to become. Everything else is secondary.”



I was just headed here to post the second quote. Listened to the commencement speech this morning. I'm sure I'll return to it again in the near future. Regardless of what you thought of his accomplishments or his (overzealous?) public following, the man lead an inspirational life. He inspires me, anyway. 


 

post #76 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson View Post

 

 

Maybe you could mourn equally for them?

 

I really don't get it. If somebody considers Jobs to be equal to Einstein (even though he isn't), what's it off your back? I mean, is your life more miserable because someone thinks so?


This is true, I mean it doesn't affect me in the slightest and I openly admit the man was a genius at what he did.

 

My general grumpiness last night was again due to nicotine withdrawl but I still stand by my statements.    As Stelios stated above are people going to have the same reaction when Wozniak dies, or do they hold a candle lit vigil for Alan Turing? (which would be way more appropriate by the way, that man was a stone cold genius who was hounded and vilified for his sexual orientation and was even chemically castrated just because he was gay FFS despite the pivotal role he had in the War effort).

 

Anyway, that's the last I'm going to say on that.  I genuinely wasn't trying to be snarky, like I said it's always tragic when someone dies of cancer, I just never get when people are so unbelievably upset about someone they didn't know (be that Jobs, or Winehouse, or Jackson) or raise them up to be better than anyone else when they are dead (Jade Goody was a prime example of that).

 

post #77 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleeplesslumber View Post

I'll just leave this here.

1200

I love that interview. Gates is asked why Microsoft has never innovated with user interface, and he starts talking about the scroll wheel on a mouse. The guy then asks "what about touch?" and Gates basically says it is a novelty and will never replace a mouse. Steve just smiles. The interview was about 6 months before the iPhone unveiling
post #78 of 358

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Savage View Post

Oh and Steve Jobs was a great salesman, the people he employed did all the work.


This is like saying a film director's job isn't that important because the writers, actors etc do all the real work.

post #79 of 358

Yeah, that's incredibly reductive to say he's a great salesman and great at hiring people and that's where his contributions end. Sales is all about making money, and not much else.

post #80 of 358
Everyone should go download last night's RACHEL MADDOW SHOW video podcast (from where else? The iTunes STORE smile.gif ). She spent much of the hour taking about Mr Jobs, and in the first 15 minutes makes crystal clear why those attempting to denigrate his legacy are operating in a fact free zone
post #81 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Savage View Post

 

I was going to stat out of this thread but NO HE FUCKING DIDN'T.

 

Sir Clive Sinclair inventor of the Sinclar ZX Spectrum was the man who invented the home computer.

 

Chirs Curry inventor of the BBC Acorn started the race to mass produce (and rival with Sinclair)

 

And Lord Alan Sugar bought it all home with the Amstrad CPC 464.

 

Oh and Steve Jobs was a great salesman, the people he employed did all the work.

 

Having said that Cancer is a bitch and my thoughts are with his family.



Sure I alluded to those devices. But it was the Apple that changed the paradigm, the device that sold in the millions, that spurred IBM to create their own PC, hire Microsoft to obtain the OS for it, etc. The follow-up, the Macintosh, introduced a UI normals could use, helped create/revolutionize industries etc.

 

Apple made PCs usable and fun for the masses.

 

And I really don't get why people refuse to acknowledge Jobs' accomplishments. My your standards Kubrick was not an artist since he didn't operate the camera, play all the parts etc in his films.


Edited by Cylon Baby - 10/6/11 at 3:51pm
post #82 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelios View Post

What if I honestly do not like his influence on technology, especially since his second coming at Apple? Should I simply not participate? If the thread is supposed to be a eulogy, say so and I'll stay out. 

 

 


I take it you are referring to the business practices of the iTunes Store? The large % of revenue artists etc must share to have their content hosted therein? The totally integrated hardware/software platform of the Mac? OK, fine. You have a multiple of alternatives to choose instead. Nearly all of whom were influenced by Apple.

 

post #83 of 358

The "who invented what when" debate aside, the fact is that we live in a reality where most people in the western world have in there possession handheld computers that can are tools for mass/global communication & can access the wealth of the world's knowledge along with phone & a personal library of movies & music. 40 years ago, not even Star Trek could dream that up. I give credit to the guy because of the manner in which this massive technological sea change occurred. Without Jobs & Apple, this advancement would've likely happened anyway but it happened in the way it did because of the technological deluge spearheaded by Apple in the early 80s. Behind Apple's effort was an idea & a set of goals. And the guy primarily responsible for those ideas was Jobs (as far as I know, I'm hardly an expert).

post #84 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Savage View Post

 

I was going to stat out of this thread but NO HE FUCKING DIDN'T.

 

Sir Clive Sinclair inventor of the Sinclar ZX Spectrum was the man who invented the home computer.

 

Chirs Curry inventor of the BBC Acorn started the race to mass produce (and rival with Sinclair)

 

And Lord Alan Sugar bought it all home with the Amstrad CPC 464.

 

Oh and Steve Jobs was a great salesman, the people he employed did all the work.

 

Having said that Cancer is a bitch and my thoughts are with his family.


All those computers came AFTER the Lisa.

 

post #85 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson View Post

All those computers came AFTER the Lisa.

 



Pretty sure that isn' true. Think the Spectrum was earlier, the ZX81 and ZX80 definitely were.

post #86 of 358

Oh hey, here's an interview with Calestos Juma, one of the first people to bring Apple computers to Africa (in 1984), talking about how he used a Macintosh to create a micro-publishing house that promoted debates about freedom, Democracy and Human Rights in Kenya:

 

http://www.theworld.org/2011/10/tributes-steve-jobs-africa/

 

 

 

 

post #87 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon Baby View Post

Oh hey, here's an interview with Calestos Juma, one of the first people to bring Apple computers to Africa (in 1984), talking about how he used a Macintosh to create a micro-publishing house that promoted debates about freedom, Democracy and Human Rights in Kenya:

 

http://www.theworld.org/2011/10/tributes-steve-jobs-africa/

 

 

 

 


I am afraid Mr Juma is actually mistaken about that, Cylon Baby. The accomplishments of the salesman marketer extraordinaire known as 'Steve Jobs' are entirely limited to the stratified world of Western elites. What, didn't you hear that?
post #88 of 358

Hahah courtesy of Andy Bain in the "God Bless the Onion" thread:

 

http://www.theonion.com/articles/last-american-who-knew-what-the-fuck-he-was-doing,26268/

 

 

post #89 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glisten View Post

Pretty sure that isn' true. Think the Spectrum was earlier, the ZX81 and ZX80 definitely were.


Well, he did mentioned the ZX81.

 

Besides, those computer didn't come close to dong what the Mac did. 

 

post #90 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon Baby View Post

Hahah courtesy of Andy Bain in the "God Bless the Onion" thread:

 

http://www.theonion.com/articles/last-american-who-knew-what-the-fuck-he-was-doing,26268/

 

 


That really says it all right there, doesn't it? On that note... I bring you this telling video from American Iconoclast Bill Maher:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiZVrzz_zfE
post #91 of 358

well for full coverage I posted two Onion articles that covered both arguments in this thread.

Here's the other one.

 

http://www.theonion.com/articles/apple-user-acting-like-his-dad-just-died,26270/

 

and re: ZX80/81/Mac I don't know but I can state for a stone cold fact that the Spectrum 48K is STILL one of the best games machines I've ever had.  Playability, playability, playability.


Sir Clive also totally looked like a boffin.

 

But I digress.

post #92 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Bain View Post

well for full coverage I posted two Onion articles that covered both arguments in this thread.

Here's the other one.

 

http://www.theonion.com/articles/apple-user-acting-like-his-dad-just-died,26270/

 

and re: ZX80/81/Mac I don't know but I can state for a stone cold fact that the Spectrum 48K is STILL one of the best games machines I've ever had.  Playability, playability, playability.


Sir Clive also totally looked like a boffin.

 

But I digress.


Just for the record: I don't find that funny at all. When a Titan passes, the world takes notice, and I think the insinuations that his death is receiving too much attention are cruel
Edited by Princess Kate - 10/6/11 at 9:56pm
post #93 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson View Post

Well, he did mentioned the ZX81.

 

Besides, those computer didn't come close to dong what the Mac did. 

 



..and the Mac got it's arse kicked by the Amiga when it arrived. Regardless, Jobs as visionary is a given as far as I'm concerned, to succeed in the maelstrom of originality that was the early 80s is a feat in itself.  Even on a much smaller scale, look at the level of creative intelligence displayed by UK games developers David Braben and Ian Bell with their groundbreaking early work. I'll always view Elite as the best designed computer game of all time, in that it managed to create a game built on incredibly involved gameplay, in a massive universe which was utterly immersive and addictive, and it managed to pack that immense universe into 16K of memory on the BBC Micro. In 3D! There must have been something in the water during the 80s.

 

 

 

post #94 of 358

Maybe this'll go a little ways towards making up for the start of the thread.  Hyperbole aside, this is pretty cool:

 

article-2046397-0E45DD1600000578-172_634x350.jpg

post #95 of 358
Around the planet, public shrines to honor Mr Job spring up:

b3ddaae8.jpg
926bb169.jpg

Meanwhile, news sources are reporting that the body of Steve Jobs is to buried in a private funeral today

Lastly, I close with this quote I found last night on HUFFPO:

"He's on another plane," says Robert Sutton, a professor of management science at Stanford University. "He reached a level in the public consciousness that's beyond that of anyone in modern times"
post #96 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by Princess Kate View Post

Around the planet,public shrines to honor Mr Job spring up:
b3ddaae8.jpg
926bb169.jpg
Meanwhile, news sources are reporting that the body of Steve Jobs is to buried in a private funeral today
Lastly, I close with this quote I found last night on HUFFPO:
"He's on another plane," says Robert Sutton, a professor of management science at Stanford University. "He reached a level in the public consciousness that's beyond that of anyone in modern times

Free iPad!!!!

I sort of laughed when I watched the news and this big buff guy broke down emotionally at the loss of Jobs... ...and I wasn't talking about the economy.
post #97 of 358

887276-steve-jobs-in-your-words.jpg

 

There is nothing more to say.

post #98 of 358
post #99 of 358

tumblr_lsme21d6Qa1qz6f9yo1_r1_500.jpg

post #100 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glisten View Post

Pretty sure that isn' true. Think the Spectrum was earlier, the ZX81 and ZX80 definitely were.


 

Release date of the zx Spectrum April 23, 1982, so yeah It does predate it.

 

 

Oh and I'm not taking anything way from what he DID achieve, It just annoyed me that he was getting credit for stuff he didn't do.   I'm sorry to burst your bubble but It is a fact that modern computing is a product of British engineering. Sinclair, Sugar and Curry all paved the way for what Apple went on to achieve.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: CHUD.COM Main
CHUD.com Community › Forums › THE MAIN SEWER › CHUD.COM Main › STEVE JOBS HAS PASSED AWAY