The Guy Code: Real or Bullshit?

You can't ask your friends to not hang out with someone just because you don't.  That's the quickest way to alienate people, because it makes you look immature and petty as fuck.  Do as you've done, and simply explain to your friends that the relationship has ended and ask them not to discuss you around the ex.  Don't put them in the middle of your conflicts with other people.  Other than that, you've really got no right to demand that your friends choose sides.  

To me, the "guy code" is total bs. It's a figment of popular culture.

Yeah, guy code code is shorthand for "Be mindful of your friend's emotions. If you feel you're going to step on someone's toes, ask before acting." 

If the ex is brought into a circle of friends then leaves on her own (lying, evil cunt that she is) then it is incumbent upon your friends to do what is right and not see that person purposefully in a social context. Not be assholes and play at her goddamned wedding or do pregnancy portraits of her...I don't give a damn if you are a photographer by trade.  Not that I have any idea what you are talking about, Michael.

I'm not gonna lie. They should have asked, Tzu. And I don't know about your circumstances, but I also think you should have agreed. 

I didn't realize "guy code" was about shunning exes.  I thought it was about not ratting them out for cheating and the like.

I would have agreed to both and they actually did inform me of the band playing the wedding.  I wasn't informed of the portraits and they came across my FB feed one day approximately six months after the breakup and I wasn't in an emotional state to handle seeing her like that.  Wished I would have been told they were going to post them as advertisements.

The bro code, despite using it myself in a usually joking manner, is bullshit.  In fact, one might make the claim that any "Honor Code" is bullshit.

 

With that said, friends (male or female) should be mindful of other people's exes. 

Cheating is tricky. First off, there will be no voluntary ratting. But it is tricky. Sometimes shit happens. I'm not going to go narcing on a friend for a one time slip-up. Then again, if he's some kind of douchebag trying to sleep with anything that moves, I won't consider him a friend since I don't like the type. Then I'll rat like Turturo in Miller's Crossing.

That's not so much a guy thing for me, though.  I keep my friends confidences, and if I know something bad they did don't tell anyone unless it's hurting someone I'm closer to.  Or it's especially hilarious, but that loophole isn't gender specific either.

I've narced on a friend to his parents.  He was drinking underage to extreme excess and getting into drugs.  I was concerned and refused to sit by and do nothing, so a couple of his friends and I had a meeting with his parents and told them everything we knew.  They had no clue what was going on, and thanked us profusely for telling the truth.  When he found out, he was furious at me and ended the friendship, but I don't doubt for one second that I did the right thing.  Sometimes being a good friend requires being a "bad friend".

When I read "Guy Code" I thought you were referring to that whole "Bros before hos" bullshit. Which kind of exists, if you have the maturity of a 7 year old in your personal relationships. It's a silly, backwards way of measuring loyalties in a friendship. And even I've gotten mixed up in things like that (covering up for a friend when he's fooling around... - "If she calls, tell her I was with you." - shit like that.)

 

I wish "Guy Code" wasn't an alternate way of saying it's acceptable to be a fucking asshole.

"Bros before hoes"

How I stand on that is basically if I'm dicking someone over, which I don't. If someone used that in business, and a lady something better, it comes off immature. In relationships that said, it really depends on the situation. I guess I like to keep a batch of friends separate from my significant other and have a group of friends we share together. I think every guy is allocated a small grace period, but luckily most people I know have had long lasting relationships or bad taste.... ....or herpes.

The guy code is also code for homophobia. I've seen people invoke the guy code when it comes to sitting next to each other at a theater. So stupid.

Oh... You mean the "I am not a homo" seating arrangement?

 

You...empty seat...your friend...empty seat...the other guy...etc

 

Not only is it a supremely pathetic show of sexual insecurity, it's visually obnoxious. Whenever I see that I want to slap those people on the head.

Don't forget Urinal Etiquette.

It's actually worse when the guy with the shy bladder goes into a stall and proceeds to broadcast everything he pleases from in there for the benefit of the entire men's room.

Guy Code to me, is two simple rules.

 

Never talk bad or perverted about a friends wife

 

Never talk bad about a friends kids. 

 

Just lines that shouldn't be crossed.  

Here's the other aspect of the "guy code" or "friend code" or whatever.... And I'm curious what you guys think.

 

What's the general consensus on potentially dating a friend's ex? Under what circumstances would such a thing be considered acceptable? I know it's an odd question, but stay with me on this.

My personal standard is that it should have been some amount of time in between and for the friend to be cool with it.

 

I was once in a position where a friend's ex expressed interest in me.  Beyond the fact that I wasn't interested, it just felt wrong to me.  But who knows how I would've justified it had I actually been interested.

I would say that makes a lot of sense.

 

I had a situation where I developed deep feelings for the girlfriend of a friend of mine, and she and I became very close friends. Up until a year ago, I would not have given much of a shit one way or the other.

 

Now, he and I have become closer as friends. And, were something to transpire, I would actually feel bad about it. Especially now that it seems they're having problems and a door has proverbially opened.

 

So, I would be very strongly looking at number 4 on this list.

 

......

 

That being said - if it's an extremely valuable and close friendship that you're throwing to the shitter over a potential romantic relationship, you're an idiot plain and simple.

 

10 years.  I think everyone in the party needs to be into the next part of their life.  That is, unless getting with this girl is more important then your friendship.

 

And if you can count the years on one hand, don't fall for the "Sure man, go for it, I'm over her" line, he will hate you for it.  

I screwed my best friends girl two years after they broke up.  We weren't friends after he found about it.  We were best friends since childhood, and this was when we both were entering our freshman year of college.  I don't blame him, it was a asshole thing to do, drunk or not.  We've tried becoming friends since, and we both are married and have kids.... just doesn't click.  Once that trust thing is gone, it's gone.  Sucks, because we both have kids the same age...

I have a question for the Council of Guy here: what is the Guy Code in regards to dating a friend's crush?  A friend of the male persuasion is having this dilemma and is asking around for advice.  Friend #1's got a strong connection to a nice woman who reciprocates his interest, but one of his guys (we'll call him #2) has an unrequited thing for her.  This woman has made it very clear that she has zero interest in #2, even going so far as to avoid him at social gatherings.  #2 will say that he couldn't care less, but you should see the way he acts when she's around.  Acting obnoxious as fuck to try and get her attention, and grumbling in the corner when she gives her attention to someone who isn't him.  #1 didn't hide anything from #2 and told him the truth about his feelings for her, and as predicted, #2 hit the roof, accusing #1 of "stealing his girl" and yada yada.  #1 does not want to lose his friend, but he's falling for this woman and does not think he's doing anything wrong.  She's not #2's ex, she doesn't like #2, it's not gonna happen with #2 EVER.    

 

Is it against the Guy Code to date a woman that a bro likes, but has no shot in hell of getting with?

I guess it's similar to dating a friend's ex. Basically, you're putting the friendship at risk.

 

I gotta say, though, Guy # 2 sounds like kind of a tool. So, who cares? Good riddance.

 

I will assume that dibs have been called. If not then #2 can go fuck himself. But if #2 has revealed his interest to #1 prior to all this, we fall under a rule set in stone.

 

You. Do. Not. Do. That. Ever.

 

At least with an ex, your friend had his chance. But dating someone he likes? Only if you want to lose him as a friend. You're not even allowed to ask for his permission. Getting the woman he couldn't also adds a layer of emasculation to his already horrible feelings. It's the next worse thing to actually sleeping with his current girlfriend.

 

 

Yeah... Basically here to emphasize what's already been said.

 

If Guy # 2 is genuinely in love with this woman, then Guy # 1 getting involved with her will seriously hurt and damage the friendship irrevocably.

 

But, from his behavior, it sounds like he's being an immature, territorial jackass. I firmly believe that real attraction is mutual. If she's even avoiding him that's not a good sign because it means she has absolutely no feelings for him whatsoever. And, if that's the case, he's a clueless dolt who can't take a hint. So he's infatuated with this woman and he only wants her because he can't have her. It's gradeschool nonsense.

 

If the feelings were real, they would come from a genuine place. They would be friends, for example, and he would be in love with her, while her own feelings were simply not as strong. But it's something that the two of them would probably have dealt with at one time or another. You can talk about things like that when you are two adults with real feelings.

 

So... I still say Guy # 2 has it coming to him. If Guy # 1 has real chemistry with this woman, and a real shot at something genuine, it's probably more worthwhile than a friendship with a childish idiot. People like that usually bring you down anyway.

In regards to dibs, #2 asked this woman out a few times, more awkwardly every time, and she consistently said no.  She now avoids him because he honestly makes her feel uncomfortable whenever he's around.  If you asked him right now if he was in love with her, he would 100% say "No", but it's clearly a defense mechanism.  So if he's said to #1 that he's not in love with her, then gets pissed when #1 becomes number one in her eyes, does #2 have a legit gripe?
 

 

But Harley, what do you think about this from a female perspective? Isn't it clear that she has ZERO feelings for the guy? And how genuine, really, is this "love" when he behaves that way? It doesn't seem real to me at all. And, therefore, Guy # 1 shouldn't take # 2's "plight" seriously. If he has a real shot with this woman, he should go for it. The "friendship" is probably an acceptable loss.

Shit, I told #1 to go for it.  She's a great gal and she clearly cares a lot for him.  I was just wondering what you guys thought because #1 told me that he believed a guy would have a different point of view.  To me, this woman is not territory.  She's a human being with free will, and she wants to be with #1.  She shouldn't have to miss out on a good thing just because a guy who she doesn't even like has a problem with it.  Fuck that.  She's not into #2, and he ought to fuck right off.  Get it through your head that she's not interested and move on.  To me, this is a no-brainer.  If it's that painful for #2 to see her with his friend, the friendship will unfortunately have to end.

Ultimately if you really love someone, you want to see them happy. As painful as it may be, if you accept that you are not the right person for them romantically then it becomes easier to move on. If you see that your friend really is better for her, then you should let it be. It may hurt at first, but if the friendship is genuine you will be happy for both of them in the long run.

 

That's the mark of a true friendship.

 

 

 

 

How old are these respective parties?  Chances are if this is an early to mid 20's age bracket she will end up spending a bit of time with # 1 and eventually move on and then end up marrying # 2 down the road when they meet again by happenstance and he's all grown up.

You're talking a lot about ideals of friendship and love and selflessness, when this thread is about the code that has developed as a way of expressing and protecting raging insecurity and petty jealousies.  Sure, in a perfect world, we can all step back from our feelings and take a mature view of what is best for all parties.  In this world, everyone can express their feelings with honesty and clarity, and none of us are friends with any childish asshats.  But I live in America.

 

Harley, to sort of answer your question, of course #1 shouldn't have to ask #2's permission for anything related to a woman he was never involved with, but the guy code isn't really based on reason and clearly in this case it will jeopardize the friendship.  As I understand it, things get dicey when the relationship was really serious, basically if they lived together or dated for multiple years.  Then it really comes down to the relationship between all the parties and full disclosure becomes very important.  For a less serious relationship or crush, you're obligated to ask the guy's permission as a show of respect, because stelios is right that the "rules" are more about protecting guys from emasculation than a broken heart.  Then as the other guy, you're obligated to give it whether it really bothers you or not.  Again, this is as much practical as anything, because if they go ahead and do it anyway over your express denial it's more emasculating than if they didn't ask at all.

 

Do not think that there is anything noble, altruistic, considerate or honest in regards to the Guy Code. It exists simply to make sure men have less competition for women in their circle.

 

Anyway, among actual friends, proper friends, no such rules exist. They don't need to exist. The thought of fucking over a real friend should never really cross one's mind, much less need to be prevented through codification.

Yeesh.  Haven't you guys ever seen the episode of "Saved by the Bell" where Zack starts dating Lisa, and Screech goes bonkers?

I've been in the guy #2 situation before (can't say I acted like he's been, though), and you know what I did? I took a few days to grumble in my room and then sucked it the fuck up. My friendship with both the he and she was a bit tense for a bit, and I wasn't sure how I felt for a long time, but things evened out eventually. She eventually drifted away (it was a few years ago, people change etc.), but I'm still really close friends with the he in this scenario.

Good point. Because that's another thing... How valuable is the friendship for # 2? If he really cares, he'll bite the bullet and accept that the best man won.

Fixed. But holy shit - thank you for that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I will only point out that of course women are "territory".  In fact we can argue that they are the original territory that all other definitions of territory were derived from. 

They are "territory" in the animalistic, most base sense of the term... But, unless you're a total macho asshole whose only interest in a woman is in her position as your trophy, that's not really the case.

 

I know this thread started out about precisely the sorts of "rules" that allow men to be walking, talking dicks.

 

But, basically, if you take that attitude seriously - let's just say you can find another table at my bar.