The Guy Code: Real or Bullshit? - Page 2

No offense... I mean, I'm a guy too.

But I was referring specifically to the whole "Guy Code" mentality.

I think your posts have shown you're actually not like that.

So you shouldn't feel insulted by what I said.

For my circle of friends, the Guy code sounded something like this:

1)We were allowed to tell you your girlfriend was crazy or an asshole once and early in the relationship. After that, we had to hold our tongues till you broke up for good, which could be six months after initial breaking. We were not going to ruin our friendships because of a lady.

2)Dating an ex required an appropriate amount of time to pass, based on the relationship, and a conversation. If you said no, we didn't go. 

3)It is okay to stop talking to us as often when you start dating someone new. I always knew when my college roomate and best friend's relationships were bad because I talked to him all the time. We have since moved on to different parts of the country and I talk to him once or twice a year. When he was going through issues? I talked to him three or four times a week.  It is how I knew his wife would be his wife. I heard from him before he was going to propose, then nothing, then two months and I received a save the date.

4)Mutual attraction to the same woman required a conversation between us. Non-competition clause.

5)When in doubt, tell me to get in the fucking car. One time, my buddy got too friendly with an ex at a party where he drove both of us. Somewhere in a bedroom things went too far and he bolted...leaving my ass there. Had to call into work the next day because I couldn't get back to my car. I was pissed! Similiar story, but one that worked out. We were drinking and bowling, underage of course, and I was DDing. An officer corners my friend and he is sloppy drunk. I managed to get everyone else into the car because of this rule. Except for him, which leads to our final rule.

6)Leave no man behind, unless they ask you to. I managed to soberly convince the officer that I would be responsible for him, that just let me get him home, etc. Trouble was trouble, but we never left anyone. If you got in trouble and went to jail (happened twice!), we followed the officer to the jail house and started filling out the bond paperwork. At a bar, a friend picks up a girl, tells us he is going home with her. It was a rebound thing, and we all knew it. So sometime before we all leave for the night, we have a serious conversation, "You sure? Got your cell? You call me if you need a pickup."

Bros before hoes was a joke with us, but it was seriously about emotions and our friendships. I don't have any brothers, but those guys are invited to my family Thanksgiving and Christmas.

Right... We all have our moments.

A very dear friend of mine is going through a break-up right now. I'm trying my best to remain objective because I ended up really liking his gf (not in that way, as a friend I mean). So I was always Switzerland and I try not to be too blatant when he complains about her. 

Last night he asked me as a favor to call her and arrange for some stuff of his to be dropped off.

And she was so snippy and bitchy to me that now I've totally gravitated to his side. Even though, logically, I know it wasn't personal with her and she was just shooting the messenger.

But, now I'm all: "Yeah! She's a beeeeee-aaaaatch!!!! - You don't need herrrrr!!!"

So... Yeah... Bros before hoes, I guess.

This seemed appropriate to post. My best friend is working on a show, aptly called Guy Code. Yes, it's MTV, yes it's pandering and stereotypical, but it's also funny; nor does it deal strictly with the bros before hos mentality, but other things, like camping, dancing (as evidenced below), karaoke conduct and other little things.

^^ Don't be that guy.

Thanks everyone for your counsel.  I called #1 today to see where he stood on this, and after thinking it over, he's decided to go for it.  He talked to a bunch of his male friends, some of whom are friendly with #2, and you might be surprised to know that they all told him to go for it.   The consensus is that #2 isn't in the running at all, and the better man won.  #2 will probably beg to differ.  

I'm sure he will... Then he'll stomp his feet and sulk in a corner for a while... Then go home and have a Hostess cup cake and a bottle of Mike's Hard Lemonade.

Life goes on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelM 

 

Aaaand I think I was just insulted.

Nah, I'm pretty sure it was meant for me
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erix 

They are "territory" in the animalistic, most base sense of the term... But, unless you're a total macho asshole whose only interest in a woman is in her position as your trophy, that's not really the case.

 

I know this thread started out about precisely the sorts of "rules" that allow men to be walking, talking dicks.

 

But, basically, if you take that attitude seriously - let's just say you can find another table at my bar.

Yes, it was an academic point. Which is what I took as the reason of the OP. It might not have been a politically correct point, but the truth of the matter is when there is a group of single guys with a female in orbit, one of them is going to develop feelings first and lay claim. Realistically what is the alternative, for it to be a free for all? That's when fights start, which is why the practice started in the first place. Which do you think is more animalistic? Territory does not necessarily mean property, or a "trophy"(baggage much?).

Case in point ... I was at a party with a friend and he was interested in a girl. There was a crazy snow storm and I had to drive the girl home because my buddy wasn't driving. I got stuck at her house and she got very aggressive, she was all over me. I did NOT touch her one bit, I managed to avoid her even though I was sleeping there. The reason being no more then he liked her, so that made her off limits. He never got her anyway, but I do not for a second regret not violating the "code" on my friend.

Now of course HarleyQuinn's friend sounds like a bitch and someone needs to tell him to sack up and move on. That's also another part of the code, getting a friend back on track when they have lost sight of reality.

Otherwise try not to be so sensitive and relax, things go much smoother that way.

I've been living in Bolivia for a while. So there's a lot of that Latino macho bullshit around here, which accounts for my "sensitivity" in these things. Your point about a bunch of guys and a girl in orbit is a valid one. But, over time, I've come to equate "territoriality" with that obnoxious macho attitude that I despise.

I didn't mean to imply that you were an asshole, by the way. Sorry if it came off as such.

And, like I said, we all have our moments. We're men. We piss with the door open! We make our own beef jerky! etc...

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelM 

My rule of thumb - and I don't always manage to follow it, but I try - is that when interacting with a friend's SO is act exactly as I would as if my friend were there. I don't talk about things I wouldn't if he were there, and I don't encourage or discuss personal stuff of the SO's that I wouldn't if the friend were present.

 

When it comes to friend's exes, my rule of thumb is be friendly, but not encouraging. I don't volunteer or share details about the friend with the ex, and I don't try and to stay in touch the ex. If she were a raging bitch to him and/or crushed his heart, then I ain't friendly. 

 

Maybe the above sounds too junior highish to a lot of folks. That's fine. I'm just going from experience in what seems to be the best safest routes for keeping good friendships good, and for behaving in a way that clearly states to all parties my loyalty and intentions.

It sounds the opposite of junior highish to me Michael, I think you're talking a ton of sense on both counts here.

Had a Code situation arise this weekend, thought I would throw it out to see where people think the line falls.  The background is that a good friend of mine dated a girl for about 2 years, and they had an amicable break up about a year ago.  Haven't seen much of her since, but we always got along well.

So last night, another of our friends got invited to a thing for her friend's birthday.  I agreed to go with him, and on the way he acknowledges that he's going with the express intention of bird-dogging the ex.  I lecture him a bit on how he needs to let friend #1 know his intentions before he actually does anything, although we both know him well enough to be sure that he wouldn't have a problem with it. 

There's a wrinkle though, in that when we get there she basically blows off friend 2, which is disappointing but not heartbreaking or anything.  But she showed a lot more interest in me, and went on about how we shouldn't be strangers and encouraged me to call her sometime.  And I'd like to (she is very good looking, in case that wasn't apparent from all the intrigue), but having just shamed friend 2 about this exact situation, I now feel like I need to submit a detailed, notarized disclosure form to two different parties before I can speak to her again.

I think everyone would agree that I should tell friend 1 if I'm going to be seeing her again, and our relationship is such that I'm not worried about a freak out or anything.  Friend 2 is where things get murkier, and I pose some questions to the hivemind. Should I feel the need to tell him anything?  Should I tell friend 1 that he expressed a fleeting interest in the ex that didn't go anywhere?  Did he need to check with 1 before even testing the waters? 

Since nothing happened, it doesn't seem like anything you'd "HAVE" to tell Friend1 unless it's just a humorous aside or a part of the notarized disclosure.

He needed to check in with Friend 1. You need to submit form 45C, in triplicate and notarized, ASAP. Looks like you may be going places.

Friend 2 got shot down. Buy him a drink and say don't leave the lights on, you're not coming home.

Now, if this is all about saving face... it seems like you should first ask Friend2 if it's ok to include his failed attempt on the disclosure form to Friend1.  That will, of course, require a separate form you'll need to mail in a request for.

Let them know, Schwartz. Both of them. Though I can't see any reason either of them would object.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stelios 

Let them know, Schwartz. Both of them. Though I can't see any reason either of them would object.

I will and they won't.  But I thought it was an interesting case study, as there are several different ways the Code was or could be infringed on depending on what I do.  It's like a guy code SAT question.

Sort of a side question, but if we forget about the ex factor, would it have been wrong for me to hit on her last night?  I mean, generally if one friend swings and misses, then the girl is back to free agent status and it's open season.  But I still feel like when a friend gets shot down its in poor taste to go for the offensive rebound the same night.  And I am now going to stop mixing sports metaphors before I make some unfortunate reference to high-sticking.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schwartz 

 

Sort of a side question, but if we forget about the ex factor, would it have been wrong for me to hit on her last night?  I mean, generally if one friend swings and misses, then the girl is back to free agent status and it's open season.  But I still feel like when a friend gets shot down its in poor taste to go for the offensive rebound the same night.  And I am now going to stop mixing sports metaphors before I make some unfortunate reference to high-sticking.

Like you guys told me about the situation I asked about, you getting the woman your friend could not is emasculating.  If you tried to ask a girl out and she said no, but your best friend took her home and fucked her that same night, would you feel weird about it?  If so, I'd suggest not doing it. 

And an update on my situation, #1 and the gal are full-on and happy as hell about it, and #2 has made himself scarce.  He's pissed at the world right now.

(responding to Schwartz's last post)

Actively pursuing her after he missed seems dickish.  But as you said, she was coming onto you.  

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelM 

I think the basic rules discussed previously apply. Going out with her a year after a two-year relationship seems too soon for me, but I tend to go waaaay conservative on these types of situations. Are you sure your friends won't mind? And is pursuing something with this woman worth more than possibly damaging or ending the friendships?

 

Ideally, it shouldn't be an issue for either guy (though I have a lot more empathy for it bothering the guy who was with her for a couple of years; your buddy was shot down, which sucks, but it's not the same thing at all). But it might be, and sometimes you have to make the choice of walking away from someone if it could be fatal to existing friendships.

I dunno, I feel like a year is about the maximum statute of limitations for anything like this.  I mean, there's a neatness to giving it as long as they were together, but at a certain point it seems absurd to say "you're great and all...I'll call you when we're 32 or so?"

This is one of my closest friends, so I definitely wouldn't pursue it if he had a problem with it.  But I'm also sure he doesn't.  I don't know that it would go anywhere in any case (she'd had some drinks and it could've just been being over-friendly), but I'm going to talk to him about it before I see her socially again.  It's a show of respect, and I think in that light it actually becomes stronger the more sure I am that he'd approve.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schwartz 

and I think in that light it actually becomes stronger the more sure I am that he'd approve.

The poor deluded fool...

Heheheh, only kidding.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schwartz 
 Friend 2 is where things get murkier, and I pose some questions to the hivemind. Should I feel the need to tell him anything?  Should I tell friend 1 that he expressed a fleeting interest in the ex that didn't go anywhere?  Did he need to check with 1 before even testing the waters? 

He definitely needed to check with Friend 1. And, even though you think you know the answer, it's best if you do so as well.

As far as Friend number 2... If all he wanted to do was fuck her, then who cares? It's only an issue if there are real feelings involved.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schwartz 

Sort of a side question, but if we forget about the ex factor, would it have been wrong for me to hit on her last night?  I mean, generally if one friend swings and misses, then the girl is back to free agent status and it's open season.  But I still feel like when a friend gets shot down its in poor taste to go for the offensive rebound the same night. 

It would have been poor form and un-gentlemanly of you to take her home that very night that he got shot down. But, other than that, I see no problem. It would have been wrong for you to actively hit on her and pursue her right after your friend got shot down, yes. But, if she came on to you, that's not your fault. As long as you didn't act on anything that very night.

There is of course an alternate answer... Say you had both been talking about her on the way to the party and it was clear you both felt like you had a shot. If you had a "may the best man win" gentleman's agreement beforehand, then it would be acceptable.

But that wasn't the case.

It seems to me like you proceeded accordingly. Now, call her, take her out, make sure dinner is good and the movie is better.... You don't need to come back and brag about dessert.

Oh... Right. Double check with Friend 1. Let's not forget Friend 1.