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FRANCHISE ME: HELLRAISER III: HELL ON EARTH

post #1 of 37
Thread Starter 
by Joshua Miller: link

Pinhead makes some new friends.
post #2 of 37

Is it a coincidence that they have an actor from star trek in this and their cenobites suddenly have electronics and look like the borg now?  Think about it!

 

I think I have been waiting something like 20 years to point that out to someone.

post #3 of 37

Is it a coincidence that they have an actor from star trek in this and their cenobites suddenly have electronics and look like the borg now?  Think about it!

 

I think I have been waiting something like 20 years to point that out to someone.

post #4 of 37

Good call pointing out how Pinhead's voice was "normalized" starting with Hell on Earth. That always bugged the shit of me.

post #5 of 37

Yeah, they definitely should have let Peter Atkins direct this one.  It was his turn and he was supposed to have the gig before Miramax changed their minds.  The film might not have been a whole lot better, but I suspect tonally it would have fit in line with the first two a WHOLE lot more.

 

Not a horrible film, but certainly a disappointing follow-up to two great movies.  Sadly, this is still a highpoint for the franchise.

 

Also, I never noticed the voice change until you pointed it out.  Now it's impossible for me to ignore it and I'm wondering if it remains this way for the other sequels.  Guess I'll find out soon enough....

post #6 of 37

This was the first and only Hellraiser flick I saw at the movies and it was a massive dissapointment.  I flat out fucking HATED the new cenobites and it felt like a betrayal of the video weirdness of the first two.  No offence to the AMerican chewers but it felt too Americanised as opposed to down, dirty and frankly fucking weird British horror.

 

Two things i remember - didn't he take some of the pins out of his head at one point (with attached bits of brain) which was suitably freaky and I remember thinking the Lament configuration design through the Skyscraper at the end looked mint.

 

This was the one I checked out of the series on so I await the next installments to get me up to date without the suffering :)

post #7 of 37

Just an FYI for those who want to watch along, but don't own these.........................all the films are available on Netflix Instant with the exception of the first two.

post #8 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by S.D. Bob Plissken View Post

Just an FYI for those who want to watch along, but don't own these.........................all the films are available on Netflix Instant with the exception of the first two.

The blu-rays are pretty cheap for the first 2.

post #9 of 37

Indeed they are!  I really need to pick up Hellbound on BR.

post #10 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by S.D. Bob Plissken View Post

Indeed they are!  I really need to pick up Hellbound on BR.

Word of caution, the transfer isn't that great and if you don't already have the first Hellraiser make sure you don't get the midnight madness one. Get the one from Anchorbay, much better transfer.

post #11 of 37

I've got the Anchor Bay one.  Is the disc still worth the upgrade on Hellbound?  Basically is the image better than the DVD I have and are there more extras?

post #12 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by S.D. Bob Plissken View Post

I've got the Anchor Bay one.  Is the disc still worth the upgrade on Hellbound?  Basically is the image better than the DVD I have and are there more extras?

http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Hellbound-Hellraiser-II-Blu-ray/25017/#Review

 

No extras and sorry I never owned the DVD. Hope this review helps.

 

post #13 of 37

I haven't seen this one in years, but even as a kid, I realized the series had gone retarded from here.

 

Having said that, only one scene sticks out for me through the years: everything about Pinhead in church, mocking Christ. Its the moment his newfound glee in this flick makes perfect sense.

post #14 of 37

Loved the way they put in Ashley Laurence's cameo. Nice scene there. The way Kristy rubs her fingers when she talks about the Box.

post #15 of 37

That is one hysterical trailer, btw.

post #16 of 37

This is barely a Hellraiser film. As the audience you may reject it but I feel that even beyond a sense of ambiguity, the film has to treat the Cenobites as if they possess a not insignificant amount of allure. With each subsequent film the Cenobites stepped further away from arguing about pain and pleasure being two sides of the same coin, each sensation being equally worthy of pursuit and into straight up slasher territory.

post #17 of 37

It's hinted at in the (very well written) article, but what has always bothered me about the series and what is highlighted in the third movie is the lack of rules. Specifically, the rules pertaining to the physicality of the Cenobites. Exactly how do they function in our reality?

 

In the first movie a couple of the Cenobites are slowed down by falling debris and can be physically manhandled. In the second movie, when confronted by Pinhead & Co., Channard declares "Ah, a fight!" The problem is that Pinhead never stands a chance, and we're never informed why Channard overpowers the whole group. Is he Leviathan's chosen one? If so, why? If not, is he running amok like Pinhead in the third movie, and if so, how?

 

I remember reading something (on an action figure box, natch) about the "sin of remembrance" removing Pinhead's power, but the third movie somewhat invalidates that idea as Captain Spencer's whole argument is what keeps Pinhead in check is his humanity. Even the second movie invalidates this, as Channard is still very much Channard. 

 

So by the third movie, when Pinhead is spitting out bullets, it's fully established that he is a godlike being. As a result, the main characters can do nothing but run away, which is boring. They can't fight back, which is boring but could work if the Cenobites' entire goal in the movie wasn't physical destruction. It unbalances things, and has us waiting the entire movie for someone to open the box and return them all to Leviathan.

 

When a Hellraiser vs. Halloween movie was announced, all I could ponder was...will Michael Myers stab Pinhead with a butcher knife, and to what effect? The comic books posited that Cenobites could be hurt by other Cenobites, meaning fashioning weapons from the bones of Cenobites, but the movies never ever bother with an explanation. 

post #18 of 37

Great points, Bartleby. And actually something I'm planning to talk about with IV, in relation to the successful destruction of Pinhead's hellhound by a human. Also, presumably, this will be a major factor in my franchise recap (as I really can't imagine the films start getting better). HELLRAISER is easily the most successful film franchise that never really worked as a franchise.

post #19 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waaaaaaaalt View Post

http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Hellbound-Hellraiser-II-Blu-ray/25017/#Review

 

No extras and sorry I never owned the DVD. Hope this review helps.

 


Barebones?  Yeesh!  I'll probably still pick it up at some point, but it looks like I'll be holding onto my DVD after all.

 



Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven View Post

It's hinted at in the (very well written) article, but what has always bothered me about the series and what is highlighted in the third movie is the lack of rules. Specifically, the rules pertaining to the physicality of the Cenobites. Exactly how do they function in our reality?

 

In the first movie a couple of the Cenobites are slowed down by falling debris and can be physically manhandled. In the second movie, when confronted by Pinhead & Co., Channard declares "Ah, a fight!" The problem is that Pinhead never stands a chance, and we're never informed why Channard overpowers the whole group. Is he Leviathan's chosen one? If so, why? If not, is he running amok like Pinhead in the third movie, and if so, how?

 

I remember reading something (on an action figure box, natch) about the "sin of remembrance" removing Pinhead's power, but the third movie somewhat invalidates that idea as Captain Spencer's whole argument is what keeps Pinhead in check is his humanity. Even the second movie invalidates this, as Channard is still very much Channard. 

 

So by the third movie, when Pinhead is spitting out bullets, it's fully established that he is a godlike being. As a result, the main characters can do nothing but run away, which is boring. They can't fight back, which is boring but could work if the Cenobites' entire goal in the movie wasn't physical destruction. It unbalances things, and has us waiting the entire movie for someone to open the box and return them all to Leviathan.

 

When a Hellraiser vs. Halloween movie was announced, all I could ponder was...will Michael Myers stab Pinhead with a butcher knife, and to what effect? The comic books posited that Cenobites could be hurt by other Cenobites, meaning fashioning weapons from the bones of Cenobites, but the movies never ever bother with an explanation. 

 

I felt their "abilities" were defined enough in the first two, but DEFINITELY not in this one.  In Hell On Earth, Pinhead seems to be able to do whatever he wants when it comes to manipulating reality in general.  It bugged me somewhat in the past and it definitely bugged me a lot on this viewing.  I don't hate the film, but it is certainly a disappointment coming off the first two.  As far as Channard goes, I always assumed he was more powerful because he seemed (for whatever reason) to be directly tapped into Leviathan via that tentacle attached to his head.  Bloodline is a bit of a mess, but I recall them toning back the craziness when it comes to Pinhead in that one..............though I haven't seen it in quite awhile.  He might not have reverted fully back to his old shelf, but I don't recall any laughing or reality-warping antics.  I'll probably be giving it a spin tonight or tomorrow.

 

As for Hellraiser vs. Halloween?  It was an interesting concept, mostly due to the depressing revelation made AFTER it was canned that Barker & Carpenter were fully willing to work with one another on it.  I always pictured Pinhead becoming increasingly irritated at the fact that Michael didn't reaction to his tortures.......although mind games might have worked a bit with him.  I wouldn't mind it at all if Barker explored the concept in graphic novel form someday.
 

 

post #20 of 37

I really enjoy this more on a totally prurient level.  I think that it was heavily informed by the comic book series through the addition of the new techno-raver Cenobites, for good or for ill.  The Hellraiser mythos is very light on logic and so long as you're not over thinking things (Yes, I know that as I type those words I'm acknowledging it's a bad, bad, bad movie), there is a bit of through-logic: Pinhead lost his humanity and became a Freddyesque slasher villain.  He needs to be reunited with his humanity to reestablish the rules of the franchise and bring the character full circle to the first film.  It also continues to develop the mythos in small silly ways.  Had the fourth film not jumped the shark and used the opportunity to bring things back to the beginning, the franchise could have been re-directed instead of turning Pinhead into a d-list slasher.

post #21 of 37

I need to vent about this, and this seems like as good a place as any ...

 

This is taken from a brand-new interview over at Revelations, the official Clive Barker site (though it's run by fans). It's from a section where they're discussing a tweet Barker posted about the delay between the second and third Abarat books, and whether Barker fans on Twitter were fine with the delay or upset about it:

 

 

Clive Barker : "Yeah. What did you think?"

 

Revelations : "Positive, we thought. We see different responses from the different components of your followers there. It seems to us that 95% - actually it’s probably the same in the proportions of those who write to us there – 95% are totally in tune with your rhythms ... And then you’ll have the 5% who – whatever you post about Abarat or other topics – say, that’s really nice, but when is Scarlet Gospels coming out or how Hellraiser’s going?"

 

Clive Barker : "I think the 5% have a button: they just hit and it spits the question out again!"

 

 

As a longtime Barker fan, it pisses me off a little how dismissive they are about those of us who don't really give a shit about Abarat and have been patiently waiting for The Scarlet Gospels. And it's not that I have a major problem with the Abarat books (which, in case you don't know, are geared for a younger, Harry Potter-friendly demographic). Read 'em both. Didn't care much for the first one but enjoyed the second. And I certainly don't begrudge an author to write what he wants to write.

 

But The Scarlet Gospels is something I've been jazzed about for a long, long time. And, after all, it's not like anyone's pestering Clive about a project that doesn't exist or is only in the formative stages (i.e. the Hellraiser remake). Barker pimped The Scarlet Gospels ad nauseum for several years -- promising everyone that it was an old-school return to horror and the Pinhead story fans had been waiting for. It's supposedly gone through several completed drafts already, and Mark Miller was apparently helping him with another draft early last year. And then ... nothing. He turned his attention back to the world of Abarat, and that was that. There's been nary a word in at least a year. (Note to Clive: Maybe a quick update on Gospels, no matter how trivial, would allow the 5% to lay off the button.)

 

This also would likely annoy me less if Barker wasn't a guy who has made nonstop promises over the years, only to then never deliver -- the Cabal/Nightbreed sequels, the third Book of the Art, the second Galilee book. Is there any writer who continually leaves his fans with a bigger case of blue balls?

 

Okay ... so now that's off my chest. Glad Clive's happy writing his Abarat adventures. (He's already started book four.) I just wish he'd for once make good on one of his promises and give his longtime fans the big horror book we've been waiting for.

post #22 of 37

Great article! It does a good job of highlighting everything I've always disliked about the film.  It feels so obvious and tonally disconnected from the first 2.  I didn't need it to continue with the Frank/Julia/Kirsty story line, but I certainly didn't want a pedestrian attempt at recreating what was already then a failing model of jokey, rubber reality slasher.  I love the Pinhead with the priest segment, but it does feel out of line with his behavior in the first 2 films.  He's malicious instead of bemused, acting like Freddy instead of Pinhead.  The only new cenobite look I liked was J.P. with the drill going in and out of his head continuously and even that is aesthetically out of line with all previous cenobite designs.  I think Bloodline is ridiculously under rated (even though its miniscule budget hampers it somehat) and serves as a good return to form for the series before it completely went off the rails.  Great series, can't wait for the rest of the entries!

post #23 of 37
Quote:

Originally Posted by zak chase View Post

 

But The Scarlet Gospels is something I've been jazzed about for a long, long time. And, after all, it's not like anyone's pestering Clive about a project that doesn't exist or is only in the formative stages (i.e. the Hellraiser remake). Barker pimped The Scarlet Gospels ad nauseum for several years -- promising everyone that it was an old-school return to horror and the Pinhead story fans had been waiting for. It's supposedly gone through several completed drafts already, and Mark Miller was apparently helping him with another draft early last year. And then ... nothing. He turned his attention back to the world of Abarat, and that was that. There's been nary a word in at least a year. (Note to Clive: Maybe a quick update on Gospels, no matter how trivial, would allow the 5% to lay off the button.)

 

This also would likely annoy me less if Barker wasn't a guy who has made nonstop promises over the years, only to then never deliver -- the Cabal/Nightbreed sequels, the third Book of the Art, the second Galilee book. Is there any writer who continually leaves his fans with a bigger case of blue balls?

 

Okay ... so now that's off my chest. Glad Clive's happy writing his Abarat adventures. (He's already started book four.) I just wish he'd for once make good on one of his promises and give his longtime fans the big horror book we've been waiting for.

 

Last I read, Mark Miller is helping him edit his final draft of The Scarlet Gospels.  Once complete, he'll just have to find a publisher.  For better or worse, the Abarat saga has been his main focus for years now.  The bright side is that it seems he doesn't really plan on starting another big undertaking (Third Book of Art, Galilee 2, Cabal 2, etc.) until he has completed the Abarat series (which is supposed to end in a fifth novel).  It means we will have to wait that much longer for him to start one of the many promised follow-ups, but at least he won't be slowly stringing out the writing process on them for years like he has with Gospels.  Personally, I won't be surprised if The Scarlet Gospels is published by the end of next year.  It is basically finished (outside of minor tweaking) and he seems like he's tired of hearing about it.

 

 

Is there any writer who continually leaves his fans with a bigger case of blue balls?  The answer is yes and his name is Quentin Tarantino.  Different field, but same tactics of excitedly announcing potential projects that will likely never happen.
 

 

post #24 of 37

The magnificent, wonderful thing about this movie is it kept me from ever considering watching another Hellraiser sequel.

post #25 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Phibes View Post

The magnificent, wonderful thing about this movie is it kept me from ever considering watching another Hellraiser sequel.

Same here, although years later I did stumble across Bloodlines and didn't hate it nearly as much.

Another great entry Joshua!
 

 

post #26 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Phibes View Post

The magnificent, wonderful thing about this movie is it kept me from ever considering watching another Hellraiser sequel.


 

Indeed. Though I would have to add the term "willingly" to your statement. I kind of watched Bloodlines, drunk, late at night on the TV. I started watching this seemingly unrelated movie and then suddenly Pinhead showed up.  

 

post #27 of 37

I re-watched Bloodlines last year for the first time in years.  I'll save my full thoughts for the upcoming article/thread, but I'd have to say that I like it about as much as this one.  Both have their ups-and-downs and neither is anywhere near as good as the first two.

post #28 of 37

I'm not a big horror fan so I only saw 1 and 2 when they originally came out on VHS, but as I love this Franchise Me series I decided to look them up. I just watched the first 3 and  I've got 4 and 5 ready to watch as the articles are posted.

Another let down that isn't mentioned here that is in the 1st movie we're lead to believe there's only 1 puzzle box which returns to the mysterious shopkeeper at the end, then in 2 there's another 3 in the doctors office but now for 3 it suggests there's only 1 box because if Pinhead destroys it that's game over for humanity. What's the go there ?

post #29 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckshot View Post

I'm not a big horror fan so I only saw 1 and 2 when they originally came out on VHS, but as I love this Franchise Me series I decided to look them up. I just watched the first 3 and  I've got 4 and 5 ready to watch as the articles are posted.Another let down that isn't mentioned here that is in the 1st movie we're lead to believe there's only 1 puzzle box which returns to the mysterious shopkeeper at the end, then in 2 there's another 3 in the doctors office but now for 3 it suggests there's only 1 box because if Pinhead destroys it that's game over for humanity. What's the go there ?



This is vaguely addressed in 4.

post #30 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua Miller View Post

This is vaguely addressed in 4.


Interesting.  I don't recall catching that in my viewing last night and was wondering what was up with the lack of other boxes.  I must have checked out mentally for a bit.  My interest in the next article is piqued now more than ever!  Can't wait!

 

post #31 of 37

Don't get too excited. Note that I stressed "vaguely." It isn't really an explanation so much as a detail that one can forcefully extrapolate an explanation from.

post #32 of 37

I could be mis-remembering this, but I believe the box Pinhead resides in is one of many possible portals to other "Heavens" and "Hells". We see other box's in Channard's office and by 4 we're expected to go with the idea that he was collecting different "Experiences". 

 

It's not too clear. But I think that's roughly where it goes. Then into space.

 

 

post #33 of 37

Oh I completely got that part.  I'm just wondering who made the other boxes and why they were ignored in 3&4.

post #34 of 37

Oh right, in that case, like Joshua says. Vague. 

 

But, SPACE, so, you know...

post #35 of 37

I'm REALLY looking forward to Josh's take on the next two entries.

post #36 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by S.D. Bob Plissken View Post

 

Last I read, Mark Miller is helping him edit his final draft of The Scarlet Gospels.  Once complete, he'll just have to find a publisher.  For better or worse, the Abarat saga has been his main focus for years now.  The bright side is that it seems he doesn't really plan on starting another big undertaking (Third Book of Art, Galilee 2, Cabal 2, etc.) until he has completed the Abarat series (which is supposed to end in a fifth novel).  It means we will have to wait that much longer for him to start one of the many promised follow-ups, but at least he won't be slowly stringing out the writing process on them for years like he has with Gospels.  Personally, I won't be surprised if The Scarlet Gospels is published by the end of next year.  It is basically finished (outside of minor tweaking) and he seems like he's tired of hearing about it.

 


If it makes you feel any better. Barker currently doing the writing chores for the Hellraiser Comic mini-series. So you can consider that a legitimate sequel to the franchise if you like.

 

I've given up on him doing the CABAL or GAILEE sequels. Though i would like a Third Book of The Art.
 

 

post #37 of 37

Yeah, I've read that they are tonally a direct sequel to Hellbound.  I still can't wait for The Scarlet Gospels though.  Clive tying up the mythology and giving it a rich back history?  Ending the franchise on his own terms?  Harry D'Amour as the protagonist?  YES PLEASE!

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