FOX WANTS TO TAKE THE PUNISHER AND MAKE A COP SHOW OUT OF HIM

"A doctor by day, a vigilante by night - coming this fall - BATMAN".

On the positive side, there aren't enough cop shows on at the moment, so there's that...

If it isn't a direct continuation of the Lexi Alexander movie, I frankly couldn't care less about a Punny TV series.

Or better yet a prequel to the movie, because

It would be nice to have him around.

All the film incarnations of The Punisher have sucked so I don't see this being much different. That said, Thomas Jane at least displayed some kind of personality so I guess he wins. The Punisher is just not that interesting of a character. 

I hope they follow the Garth Ennis route and somehow manage to squeeze in a reference to how hard Northern Irishmen are!

So basically a PG Dexter with guns, only boring? Yay!

Then again, as a Punisher fan I've learned to pretty much ignore the crap (and there is so much crap) and focus on the good stuff, so I can't say I'm overly offended. The window on doing an interesting, serious take on the character is rapidly closing (the whole 'Nam vet thing sort of has a shelf-life), so at this point I'm just happy when a movie like War Zone comes along and can at least emulate the entertaining, colorful element of the comics.

After WAR ZONE PUNISHER, this can only be a letdown. They shouldn't even bother. The punisher isn't an interesting enough character on his own if you remove the bone breaking hyper violence (/Ray Stevenson)

So they are still going to make him a cop? Isn't the point of the Punisher is that he works "outside" the law?  If this was on FX, it might work.network TV? hell no.

Given that War Zone was bottom of the barrel, anything would have been better... but not this..

What's the formula of the show going to be anyway? A crime is committed; Det. Frank Castle is on the case; because of some esoteric legal loophole, the perpetrators are going to walk; and so, Castle dons his Punisher garb and metes out his own brand of "justice." Tune in next week!

I would imagine that's exactly how it'll be.

On the positive side, this, along with the planned Hulk TV show, represents the move of superheroes to television which I think we can all be happy about. I do think a character like Punisher, or maybe even a character like Hulk -- both of whom are fairly one-note -- would do well in a TV series environment, where the one-note aspect can be exploited as the show's "gimmick," literally the basis for what the show is built on. Hulk must transform every episode, as must the Punisher kill or move towards killing someone who deserves to be killed but has been stupidly overlooked by the legal system. Of course, I don't think any of us would be complaining about the Punisher getting his due on a TV show if he wasn't specifically being said to be a cop.

But I'm not sure how much this sucks. The Punisher, as a character, could benefit from being a former/current cop -- it's not like it dilutes the point of him, which is aggressively violent vigilantism personified. In some ways it is a new riff -- but I fail to see how this is a bad thing, specifically. This is why fanboys or whatever get a bad rap -- because they insist on specifics and miss the broad ideas, which could easily be transfered to a TV show in this case, despite the Punisher-as-cop addition. The essence of the character would remain intact, whether he is a cop or not (and maybe being a cop would add a dimension of drama and conflict to the proceedings, which have been woefully missing from the prior two films -- where he basically just decides to murder a shit-ton of people and then the movie becomes almost exclusively about his desire to kill relentlessly).

JMMulder, good post, but I honestly don't care about him being a cop. I enjoyed WAR ZONE PUNISHER for it's gleeful insanity, something that I know right now with certainty couldn't be replicated on network TV. If you title your network show "S%^ MY DAD SAYS", people will start letter writing campaigns to get it pulled off the air. In that environment, I don't see many exploding craniums in TV PUNISHER's future

PK would be the first person to reply to my post. Well, surprisingly I would agree -- IF the Punisher show is severely diluted in terms of violence, when we see it. The purpose of the Punisher is that he is obviously violent, and blood splatters when he makes an appearance -- twisted or not, this is his appeal over other vigilantes and other superheroes. But shows like Boardwalk and Breaking Bad and Walking Dead have proven that violence is something that is present on network TV and can be executed, no problem, without hate-mail getting sent to its originators or censorship boards getting fussy. It is, in fact, being illustrated that people dig violence on TV and want to see more of it.

Which is probably not a good thing, but hey. Anything that throws censorship people for a loop.

Also, Punisher is not necessarily about absurd violence like in War Zone. I would say it's more about making people squeamish, rather than turning him into a figure of surreal, exaggerated laugh-out-loud crazy-violence. That kind of thing can be accomplished in TV without being explicit -- as demonstrated by Boardwalk, where a disturbed female character beat a helpless, stroke-suffering, disturbed male character relentlessly in the final shot of the episode. What I mean is that the disturbed nature of violence, or the disturbed nature of anything in general, is no longer forbidden on TV. Censorship boards are preventative of the image, without being preventative of the fucked-up emotion behind it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splatoon 

So basically a PG Dexter with guns, only boring? Yay!

 

Then again, as a Punisher fan I've learned to pretty much ignore the crap (and there is so much crap) and focus on the good stuff, so I can't say I'm overly offended. The window on doing an interesting, serious take on the character is rapidly closing (the whole 'Nam vet thing sort of has a shelf-life), so at this point I'm just happy when a movie like War Zone comes along and can at least emulate the entertaining, colorful element of the comics.

They can always ret-con him into the Iraq or Afghan wars.

FYI Frank Castle was NYPD when his family got smoked. The Combo of Vet-of-sensless-ugly-war, failure to do his duty plus protect his own family, sparked the creation of...The Punisher!

I am all for a...Punisher Tv Series.  Frank Castle has always been one of my favorite...Superheroes!  His being a cop will allow him access to information that a civilian doesn't have.  He could even meet...Microchip in the Police Department Computer Labs.  He was a cop in Thomas Jane's Punisher, a former cop in Dolph Lundgren's Punisher, so that is all well and good.  He doesn't have to have a...HUUUUUge body count to be the Punisher.  It cannot be a Law and Order Style cop show.  It should be like...Hunter!  Car chases, shoot outs, bar fights, just like an...80's era cop series with with Superheroics!

I feel bad for Frank Castle. Garth Ennis put in a lot of work to bring that character back to life, really working the edges of his reliable simplicity, and that renewed popularity has apparently given people in the entertainment industry cause to completely screw him in every medium. Punisher: War Zone may have had more of an idea of what to do with the character than the '04 film, but it's still a terribly paced mess of a movie with an awful script. He's had three chances on the big screen, w/ the '89 film probably being the most successful in terms of "getting" what the character is about (and for essentially working the best as a film in general), and now Castle is going to get hosed on the small screen as a lame ass Dexter rip-off. As a big fan of the Ennis run, and a firm believer that Castle as a character has all of the right elements to become the Paul Kersey or Harry Callahan of the aughts (he's more or less inspired by those characters, on top of Mack Bolan, anyway), it's all a little depressing.

The show might be worthwhile if they play up Frank Castle as a man profoundly unhinged and out for blood.  Frank's a loner too, I don't see how he could even remotely be the same character if he's hard-charging detective by day, and murderous vigilante by night.  It just sounds like a lame pitch by a lame faceless t.v. writer.  

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMulder 

 or not, this is his appeal over other vigilantes and other superheroes. But shows like Boardwalk and Breaking Bad and Walking Dead have proven that violence is something that is present on network TV and can be executed, no problem, without hate-mail getting sent to its originators or censorship boards getting fussy. It is, in fact, being illustrated that people dig violence on TV and want to see more of it.

 

 

If Boardwalk refers to BOARDWALK EMPIRE, then none of the shows you just mentioned are broadcast on network TV. Fox, CBS, NBC, ETC all have different FCC rules than shows on cable and pay cable do

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cylon Baby 

They can always ret-con him into the Iraq or Afghan wars.

 

FYI Frank Castle was NYPD when his family got smoked. The Combo of Vet-of-senseless-ugly-war, failure to do his duty plus protect his own family, sparked the creation of...The Punisher!

Hard to keep up with the convoluted mess that is comic continuity, but I think you might be confusing the Ultimate Universe Frank Castle with the mainstream 616 version. Also, while there are certainly parallels between the experiences of vets from any conflict, I don't think it's fair to say you can swap one war for another and still come out with an identical characterization. Not that a modern ret-conning of the Punisher's story couldn't work, it's just that as someone who's read the bulk of the Punisher oeuvre I think the most interesting and effecting rendition of the character in recent years has been the one born out of the particular viciousness and insanity of that conflict. Again, one interpretation, and as I said in the Sherlock Holmes thread there's certainly nothing wrong with different takes on a character, it's just that based on past experience this seems to echo all the cliched elements that have people calling the Punisher boring in the first place, rather than trying to elevate the character beyond just dude with guns and a big skull (or conversely, degrade him into ludicrous dude with guns and a big skull who we're going to have kick the shit out of people in hilarious fashion). I find the best Punisher stories are the ones that take him the most seriously, and/or the ones that put him in the most ridiculously fucked up situations. It's the boilerplate action movie middle-ground that I think does him the greatest disservice.

And for the record, I'm of the firm opinion that, with rare exception, there's no such thing as a bad character. There's bad writing and there's bad execution, but if Matthew Vaughn can make me enjoy Kick Ass by god we should be able to get another entertaining Punisher movie.

This could work if they build up his loving family over the entire first season and then kill them in the finale.  Will they have the balls to do that though?

Making this about Frank being a cop by day and Punisher by night is missing the point. Spectacularly.

This is how I see this working. He's a special Forces vet who was involved in every dirty bloody mess for more than a decade. He has issues. Serious issues. He becomes a cop and just keeps getting more and more into shit. I'm talking Vic Mackey level of shit. Then his family dies at the penultimate episode. The finale should be wall to wall killing. At the end Frank fakes his death and goes underground.  

That is exactly what should happen.  Which means there are two possibilities.....

1. It DOES happen that way and Fox cancels it.

2. It is watered down and lame.................and is on the air for years.

The best thing that could happen to this show is to be moved to FX.

I am not a fan of this idea.  Fox has a TERRIBLE track with shows that aren't House, or American Idol.  More than that though, changing the character into a neutered version of the unstoppable kill-dozer that he was in Punisher: Warzone is really unnecessary.  I would like to see this on a premium cable network, with all of the violence and gore intact.  If there was a god, the producers would simply start with Ennis' MAX run, and devote 3-4 episodes apiece to the 10 or so story arcs that Ennis wrote.  The Slavers, and Up is Down, Black is White were two of my favorites from that series.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Art Decade 

"A doctor by day, a vigilante by night - coming this fall - BATMAN".

call me when VIGILANTE PRIEST starring Neal McDonough is ready.

http://www.aoltv.com/2010/08/13/desperate-housewives-actor-neal-mcdonough-turns-vigilante-pri/

lol

Quote:

Originally Posted by Disciple_72 

call me when VIGILANTE PRIEST starring Neal McDonough is ready.

 

http://www.aoltv.com/2010/08/13/desperate-housewives-actor-neal-mcdonough-turns-vigilante-pri/

 

 

lol

You've got to be fucking kidding.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stelios 

Making this about Frank being a cop by day and Punisher by night is missing the point. Spectacularly.

 

This is how I see this working. He's a special Forces vet who was involved in every dirty bloody mess for more than a decade. He has issues. Serious issues. He becomes a cop and just keeps getting more and more into shit. I'm talking Vic Mackey level of shit. Then his family dies at the penultimate episode. The finale should be wall to wall killing. At the end Frank fakes his death and goes underground.  

I can see that working ok fine, but 2 problems...

A] A whole season before we see his signature anything. I need my comic characters NOT stripped of all iconography. I'm picky that way. Granted, Season 2 he's be in full-on PUNISHER mode... and

B] For all the people complaining about too many origin tales and retelling, that's an awful long (Series length) origin tale. If it gets cancelled before Season 2 (and there's always a good chance of that for "genre" entertainment), we get no Frank Castle in full-on Punisher mode on the small screen.

I see heavy use of flashbacks as the only compromise here. See LOST for a standard. What makes this guy tick? What obstacles does he have playing by the book and what moral dilemmas does he have outside the law he once sworn to uphold? Let's show the Highlights for Kids "Goofus and Gallant" way to fight crime. And make the audience decide on their own which is which. THE SHIELD (and as I hear, THE WIRE) is the standard here.

The character could work fine in weekly installments as most of his villains are easily envisioned for the small screen (mob guys and mercs don't tend to have a ton of super powers) and you can bring in procedural show subplots and motifs. But the channel censorship will be an issue because Frank is one ruthless and violent SOB.

I'm a bit reminded of the Crow STAIRWAY TO HEAVEN series with Mark Dacascus and the BLADE series with Sticky Fingaz more so than Wonder Woman or the Hulk due to the tricky subject matter and previous films' strengths.
 

Yeah, flashbacks could work. Maybe have him going after people that got away from him in his cop days? You just need to keep Punisher Frank and Cop Frank completely separate.

Speaking of costumes, I assume they would have to put him in a mask right? I mean it makes sense that the regular Punisher doesn't have one sense he's the Punisher pretty much 24/7, but this version has to worried about people IDing him from security cameras and what not.

Splatoon, All Detective Frank Castle needs is a pair of...Glasses!  It works for some superheroes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DARKMITE8 

I'm a bit reminded of the Crow STAIRWAY TO HEAVEN series with Mark Dacascus and the BLADE series with Sticky Fingaz more so than Wonder Woman or the Hulk due to the tricky subject matter and previous films' strengths.

No the Crow series was terrible. They turned the crow into it's own incredible hulk type of personality and the crow never killed anyone. They revised it so if the crow kills someone a snake brings their soul back and they are snake people from hell that the crow has to now attempt to rekill and no im not kidding. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by duke fleed 

Splatoon, All Detective Frank Castle needs is a pair of...Glasses!  It works for some superheroes.

I agree!