Why shouldn't I vote for Ron Paul? - Page 2

as long as there is still a spot on federal income tax forms for "filing status" ie...marital status, it would seem that it is a fed issue.....also, how many other fed forms might there be with options for 'marital status'?

Does anyone out there know...are there still benefits for filing a joint (married) tax return?

ok, so if it is solely a states rights issue, how would a gay couple that is legally married in MA deal the concept of moving to TX (let's say, for a job) where, all of a sudden their marriage is considered illegal?

 

Both, however more Catholic then Protestant. The question should really be 'Dispenationalist or Non-Dispensationalist'. Or more commonly, "Zionist or Non-Zionist".

 

There are 60million Dispensationalist 'Christians' in America. These folks are not really Christian, but for the sake of grouping them in terms you can understand, we'll call them Christian, or Zionist Christians.

 

After 1948 with the founding of Israel... a growing group of American Pastors assisted by extremely wealthy and powerful Jews, started teaching whats known as 'Dispensationalism' which is now in 2011 losing alot of steam and momentum. Dispentionalism has been rejected by the Catholic Church, Orthodox Church and some Protestant Churches. 

 

The Dispensationalist claim the State of Israel is 'Biblical Prophecy' come true and a sign of the End Times. The NeoCon Jewish/Christan Zionist alliance is an 'American' phenomenon. It has nothing to do with European Christianity. The Russian Orthodox Church has flat out banned it in legal ways.

 

Attempting to 'crash course' Old Leftist Hippies (at this board) on the political dynamics and history of these things is like asking a blind man to read a map. If its not in a 2 sentence soundbite or happened in the last 20-30yrs... its irrelevant. 

 

So to answer your question wither or not Ron Paul has more support from Catholics or Protestants... his foreign policy is in line with Traditional Catholics. A reason Pat Buchanan (traditional catholic) is a supporter.

 

However its important to understand the stances Ron Paul has were not invented by Ron Paul. Theres a long history in America which traces its ideological roots back to Europe and if you take the time to really understand the history behind it all... as far back to 2000yrs ago during biblical times.

 

Ron Paul is simply preaching what Americas Founding Fathers preached. Liberty and Justice for all.... or simply put personal freedoms which originated in a political form in the German and French Revolutions. 

Edited by EndTheFEDMafia - 11/6/11 at 2:50pm

It is impossible to believe both these things at the same time. The right to sign a legal contract and form a fictitious legal entity known as a household is a secular matter, and marriage equality is a question of liberty and justice for all. Liberty and justice for all is not a concern limited to the interests of selfish assholes.

I suspect the reason why there are so few minority libertarians is it's a philosophy for pampered people who've never evaluated the amount of privilege they enjoy due to the circumstances of birth. Dismissing civil rights as a selfish concern sounds like nothing but privilege talking.
Edited by Reasor - 11/6/11 at 3:11pm

 

like Cornel was saying....RP is definitely "on to something".....that doesn't mean he should be the POTUS.

 

Personally, I would like to see a proven, functioning, modern day libertarian country as proof that those ideas can work before throwing out the current governmental model.

 

perhaps this could be an idea for a new reality tv show? 

 

Yeah i predicted someone here would attempt to make that connection while i was typing that. The absurdity that your homosexuality is an issue of 'personal liberty' is just that, absurd.

 

By your ludicrous devolvement of the 'personal liberties' the Americans, French and Germans fought for in their revolutions into some sort of 'battle for genital freedoms' is clearly some sort of mental disorder you suffer from.

 

I DO believe those revolutions were fought due to Financial issues. You know? TAXES?... among what we now consider basic human freedoms... which the Bill of Rights lays out.

 

By your TWIST of these revolutions and pivotal historical events... you'd have us all believe your sexual dysfunction falls within the 'struggle' for civil freedoms. It does not. 

 

Just as shooting your neighbor because he pisses you off, does not fall within the spectrum of 'personal freedoms'. Nor does kidnapping young boys for sex in your basement because you feel like it. Now take you smug... self centered, self indulgent, narcissistic, sexually disabled 'VOTE' and cram it up your arse... pun intended. 

 

 

I'd like to see ANY Socialist country modern or not as proof socialist ideas work opposed to Libertarianism. 

 

Why are Blacks afraid to be free?

 

Cornel west is a confirmed clown. Even by his own 'tribe'.

Well, there's that floating city thing the founder of Paypal is trying to start up. We'll see where that goes (hint: Bioshock).

 

Well it would be more popular then the reality show of Ms. Obama growing her 'Green Garden' on top of radioactive soil at the White House.

 

Which leads me to the question... what other kinds of Gardens are there, if not Green?

 

Oh those silly Obama's... always up to something. One week killing African Leaders, the next week growing Electric Tomatoes. At least they're Black and look like me! thats all that really matters.

you're the one pimping RP and the wonders of the "Libertarian Lifestyle".....if it's so great, let's see an example of how well it (supposedly) works....and no cheating.... you can't use Ayn Rand's work as an example. (hint- it's fiction)

so...it is starting to seem like this 'EndtheFedMafia' guy is trying to perform some sort of "edgy" online libertarian performance art....kinda like Herman Cain is doing with the traditional media ?

 

 

 

And? I'm not a blind Obama supporter who's under the mistaken belief that he's going to lead us gay folks to the promised land. He's made some steps though, I don't need everything changed overnight.

 

 

Here's the thing though. LGBT people in this country still face discrimination and a whole host of other social issues that go along with it. And the fight for our rights* is oftentimes as much about recognition as any number of other issues. Guys like Paul give the whole "privacy of your own homes' spiel, but he doesn't get that saying "We're gay and married and it's none of your business" doesn't carry the same amount of weight as "We're gay, we're marry, and the FUCKING FEDERAL GOVERNMENT says it's not your business." And it's a real simple distinction that a lot of people miss. And a reason I just don't count him as an ally of the movement.

 

That's not to say of course that protests on the state level aren't effective or important.** But this is both a national and a moral matter, and goes beyond just the wills of the state.

 

 

*Note: TOTALLY not speaking for every single member of the LGBT community.

 

**I actually travelled to Iowa to show my support, it's a big deal whenever we get one victory.

 

No, he's simply proving correct the stereotype that Ron Paul fans are the most easily trolled people on the internet.

I'm particularly amused by his performance at turning the subtopic of marriage equality into an obssessive discourse on genitals and sexual disease, with a hint of the "homosexuals = pedophiles" canard thrown in as well. He probably won't come out of the closet until his midlife crisis hits, but I saw enough of the self-hating closeted tribe during my Army days to recognize the type from a mile away.

If anything the guy is the prime, glaring reason why people shouldn't be voting for Ron Paul.

I'm sure he's convinced you're doing the same. 

I've had discussions with libertarians who didn't come from a place of scorn for minorities, who weren't such twisted wrecks that they were unable to notice that someone was actually listening, and whose posts looked liked they had been run through a spell-checker.

I want to be completely fair, and not just because it'll piss this guy off.

Meltdown, party of one?

Oh god! He found our cave of freedom!

 

 

 

Quick Rainbow Warriors - defend our freedom holes!

 

 

 

(am I doing this right?)

I put the motherfucker on ignore, I don't feel I'm missing much.

You're not. Other than him apparently discovering our gay cave of freedom where we sit around being all gay and calling other people gay and just reveling in our gayness.

In the quantity and quality of his contributions, he's like Kate, except that his posts are genuinely funny. I would make "actually i was unaware i walked into the gay bar" my new signature, but I'll be damned if I can find the screen to change it with the new CHUD UI.

ETA: Found it.

 

Sounds like you're the one whos 'bitter' against the 'hateful' majority as you put it. The same 'hateful' majority who will never accept your sexual dysfunction as normal.

 

You have no issues. You have stance. You have no party. You have no history. You have nothing. All you have is your homosexual dysfunction... and if the entire WORLD doesn't stop on a dime for you and your dysfunction, then 'we' are simply not good enough for you and your twisted take on reality.

 

Its no surprise you turn the conversation of about the history of Ron Paul's movement into some freak show, watered down, emotional perception you've concluded through your own purple tinted lenses.

 

"oh he's just really gay... met a ton like him' was a clear sign of your intellectual inferiority to maintain the level of discussion which im 100% positive confused the crap out of you and your uneducated diseased mind.

 

All this from the guy who thinks the French, German and American Revolutions were fought so Gays could screw each other in public to realize their 'personal freedoms'. 

 

 

Im glad your 'section' of America is irrelevant in political terms. Sure the media continually brings you freaks up all the time... but that's just for the spectacle. Like a circus attracts the lookers. What power do you have? NONE. And you NEVER will. Your numbers are less then the Jews who hold 1% of the national demographic.

 

 

Besides the term 'minority' was always a propaganda term which had zero honest relevance. Minority against what and whom exactly? White people? But wait.. you're white.. so hows that work exactly? The Mexicans get the benefits of having a 'minority status'.. yet in the North American Continent they're the LARGEST ethnic group out of any other, representing over 160million. 113million living in Mexico and 50-60million living in the States. 

 

So you see... your leftest beliefs... your leftest terms... your leftest idealogy... your leftest party.... is ALL full of crap. 100% crap. All of it. You have NO issues. None. 

 

As i already said, the Left doesnt even exist. Its simply 100's of Sub-Groups who ALL have different agendas.

 

 

Edited by EndTheFEDMafia - 11/6/11 at 5:04pm

 

 

He's kinda growing on me.

@EndTheFEDMafia

 

You have the floor, sir.  Convince me...a straight, married, politically independent male to vote for Ron Paul.  Lay it out for me, and please do it without snark, anger, or vitriol.  I'm willing to be persuaded.

 

Well i dont really believe you're truly independent. Everyone holds some sort of bias. And there must be some reason why you're on the fence regarding Paul at this late date. Those issues would need to be brought to light and addressed.

 

However, a 'broad' overview of why ANYONE no matter their 'more specific issues' would simply be the curtailment, the stoppage, the reduction of the Imperial Federal Government and the steadily increasing (to the point of horror) Governmental Tyranny that has taken over our once Republic.

 

Im assuming you're interested in these things. As most Americans would be. So the question you're asking is... well thats what Obama said! thats what Bush said... what makes this guy Ron Paul different? He's just another 'old white guy republican' as Barry words it.

 

Why do you think Ron Paul is always talking about HISTORY when he's doing Interviews? Because you need to understand what, how, when and WHY America became America IN THE FIRST PLACE. You need to understand what the Federal Reserve is. Who created it. Why was it created. What effect it has on a nation. What effect ANY 'Central Bank' has on a nation. You need to know some basics about Economics and Fractional Reserve Banking. You need to understand what a Pyramid Scheme is. You need to understand that Wallstreet and our entire American Economy has been a Pyramid Scheme since the creation of the Federal Reserve in 1913. The 'boom and bust' financial business cycle is a fraud. The 'bust' does not happen by chance. It is not random failure of the economic system... the system is DESIGNED for bust. Thats how the top 1% rapes 10-15yrs of Economic Labor from the middle class over and over and over.

 

You see... you dont have to be a Professor in Economics to understand who, what and why Ron Paul's name is all over the place. You just need a few BASICS in what it is this country was originally setup to accomplish. Which is the empowerment of the peasant class to control their own financial destiny through the issuance of their OWN money supply.

 

The battle against Central Banks and the power to issue a nations currency has been waged for 100's of years. Its the single most IMPORTANT issue in history. "Who controls the money supply".

 

I would like to introduce you to a documentary called The Money Masters: How International Bankers Took Over America

 

If you're intellectually honest... this documentary will open your eyes to everything you need to know.

 

 

I like this white guy who talks about my "genital rights."

 

THIS CONVERSATION IS GOING PLACES.

 

The issue towards Barry was not any of his links or videos. The issue was his self hating liberal assumption that Non-Whites are ignoring Ron Paul because he's "another old white Republican".

This was completely unnecessary and groundless. Its simply a byproduct of a diseased left wing mind... or in Barry's case... a previously diseased mind who's finally 'coming around' to see the light which has manifested itself in support of a Paleo Conservative named Ron Paul. A very positive turn-around.

 

Barry also assumes, non-whites are all racist against 'old white guys' and automatically overlook them simply because they're white. This ignorance made googles top 10 articles on a Sunday. 

 

It was my duty to quickly make an account so i may tell Barry to stfu.
 

That is all.
 

As far as Barry's continued enthusiasm and promotion towards Ron Paul.. i support Barry in his continued enlightenment. Even though he may go about it in a disturbing way.

Edited by EndTheFEDMafia - 11/6/11 at 7:26pm

I think it's your self-serving idea of what constitutes an ungrounded assumption, and what's a completely unnecessary comment, that I enjoy the most about you.

Come back some time. We'll talk some more about the problems you have with Jews and people of color, see if you have any problems with women you'd like to get off your chest, and if time permits we'll talk about movies.

and we need to learn more about the homos

You're not smart enough

 

 

   I seriously doubt the circus would be marketed as family entertainment if they attracted hookers.

That's odd because I had him pegged as being no younger than 50. His posts reek of Tea Party and Geritol.

Speaking of the "homosexuals = pedophiles," what does he call it when a man molests a girl?

 

One serious epidemic and it would be over.  No public health system, the "worker class" would die and the God-ordained superior beings at the top would be forced to abandon their paradise. 
 

 

Ron Paul supporters are kind of weird that way.  The first time I ever heard about Ron Paul I was playing Unreal Tournament and some dude drops into the match and starts going 'hey guys have you heard of Ron Paul?' and spouting the same nonsense about how income tax is illegal and we should go back on the gold standard and other bullshit.

 

 

Did Wallace call him on the fact that it was a constitutional amendment that made slavery illegal, not a Supreme Court decision reversing a previous decision?  If Ron Paul wants Social Security to be unconstitutional, he's going to have to introduce an amendment making it so.  And good fucking luck passing that.

Q: Why shouldn't I vote for Ron Paul?

A: Because he named his son after Ayn Fucking Rand. Let's see how well the poor would do under Paul if he got everything he wanted, hmm?

 

I'm really confused by how this thread came about. As far as I can tell Ron Paul hasn't starred in ANY Joss Whedon projects!

Tuesday?

Faith in Woodward's Whedon Crush: Restored.

 

My bad. Guess just massively admiring a legitimately sociopathic author and using her fuck-the-poor philosophies as a basis for his views isn't quite reason enough to avoid voting for him.

 

Look Barry, it's great that you've found a guy who rings your bell but you've essentially ignored the very valid points people have raised about Paul's unsuitability for the presidency. As others have said he's got attractive qualities, particularly when it comes to his disdain for the conservative morality police. But he also thinks, by the very nature of his self-professed Libertarianism, that the poor and weak deserve no protection from those better off than them. He thinks workers' rights shouldn't exist. Actually LOOK at his positions, not what he's saying to keep his campaign palatable. He's isolationist. He views the rest of the world as a burden or evil, and would opt out of all international organisations. He wants no governance of trade, for Christ's sakes! He opposed the Civil Rights act! He's against healthcare, against abortion, against any kind of help for those in need whatsoever. Here's a quote from Wikipedia for you:

 

 

His entire philosophy is essentially one of "it's not my problem". That's swell if you're talking about morality issues such as gay marriage or medical marijuana, but relying on human nature and the goodness of the well-off to help look after those less fortunate is a pipedream. If the banks, corporations and politicans don't give a fuck now, when there ARE checks and balances in place, do you really think they're going to start setting up homeless shelters and free clinics when the government stops doing that?

 

Paul would be a great president if we lived in Gene Roddenberry's vision of the future, but in a country ruled by greed, money and cut-throat disregard for your fellow man he's a disaster. As a guy who's probably earning a good wage and not living hand-to-mouth it might be hard for you to understand, but he's for the haves rather than the have-nots.

"actually i was unaware i walked into the gay bar"

 

I can top* that. I once was unaware that I walked into a gay bar - and fell asleep in it.

 

*not literally

Never see any poor Libertarians, do ya? Funny that.

This strikes me as disengenuous given that you've clearly read his wikipedia page, which lays all of these issues out in nice neat fashion. The negatives on Paul are just as easy to find - if not moreso - than the positives, and you've had no trouble tracking down the links and youtube clips at that end of the spectrum.