Conrad Murray killed Michael Jackson

Well Jackson was clearly nuts, but yes, a real doctor should have refused to go along with his demands

Here's my post from the Avclub verbatim:

"My own personal experience, a few weeks before this happened to Michael Jackson, we were having our own propofol related discussion at work. I had a patient in one of the hospital wards who was quite nauseous and we'd trying everything else at our disposal without success.

Some of the anaesthetists suggested we could use propofol as an anti-emetic agent but the difference is here, we we talked about one dose of 10mg, or 1mL of the stuff, which had it been given would have been monitored and observed during its entire course.

As it was, after a discussion with several of the anaesthetists and nursing staff, we decided not to go ahead because of the power of the agent versus the condition treated and likely success (and we're talking about a dose much lower than being able to put someone to sleep where an adult is concerned). 

Then this happens with massive doses in a private home with no monitoring, we all thought it was ridiculous and that the doctor was going to be in a lot of trouble for at least not monitoring Michael Jackson with equipment and not letting him out of his sight (though if he had any sense, he wouldn't have touched the job with a barge pole).

To further add, I'm in Australia and drugs like propofol are very tightly controlled even inside hospitals. It's a good way to lose your registration if you play the fool with it."

Jackson fucked a shit ton of kids (ahem "allegedly") and Murray fucked Jackson by giving him too many drugs.

I'm sure right now in Hell Jackson moonwalked in celebration until he got called back to being butt-fucked by sharpened cans of Jesus Juice. Needless to say, those "Justice 4 MJ" jackasses can go fuck themselves over celebrating the verdict. Murray was guilty but Jackson was so much more vile that an acquittal would have been perfectly fine by me.

Either or can we finally go back to remember he's dead and move on?

Good move on going under for your wisdom teeth...  I wasn't so wise.

RE: WISDOM TEETH: They put me under, and then I woke up half way through. I could feel pain and tried to get them to stop, then the doctor shouted at me and I went back under

A danger to society? Ridiculous.

And Michael Jackson killed Michael Jackson. There's a hundred unscrupulous doctors who would've caved to a guy like Jacko's demands - Murray was the moneygrubbing weapon, not a murderer.

Still, doctors should not be drug delivery services. Even if he escaped criminal charges his license should be taken away from him and he should get fined to oblivion.

Goes without saying.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Princess Kate 

RE: WISDOM TEETH: They put me under, and then I woke up half way through. I could feel pain and tried to get them to stop, then the doctor shouted at me and I went back under

 

I've read medical journals about the "shout to sleep" method.

Don't joke guys. I have an mp3 on my phone of myself shouting "GET THE FUCK TO SLEEP!" and play it on a loop whenever I can't sleep. It really works.

I think there's a chance that Kate is Steve Rogers' daughter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Merriweather 

A danger to society? Ridiculous.

 

And Michael Jackson killed Michael Jackson. There's a hundred unscrupulous doctors who would've caved to a guy like Jacko's demands - Murray was the moneygrubbing weapon, not a murderer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stelios 

Still, doctors should not be drug delivery services. Even if he escaped criminal charges his license should be taken away from him and he should get fined to oblivion.

I agree with both these sentiments. Jackson was a skeletal wreck, obviously with severe issues and an attitude that he should get whatever weird drugs he wanted. However, it's not a medical doctor's role to indulge a madman's every whim. He's supposed to be there for the health of the patient, and his ethos was to be "do no harm". Obviously anesthetizing someone because they had "trouble sleeping" is grounds for losing his license and get fined, even if the patient hadn't wound up dead

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Nunziata 

I've read medical journals about the "shout to sleep" method.

I assume he gave me another injection to put me under, the shouting was to get me to stop moving and trying to talk during surgery. I don't know what was used to knock me out but he shot me up with some clear liquid initially.The next thing I remember was that I began to feel pulling, tearing and pain in my gums and teeth, and slowly realized (though everything was still foggy) that they were extracting my wisdom teeth and I'd woken up. I tried to ignore the pain but then it was too much and so I tried to get him to stop, trying to talk and move. That is when he shouted something at me about being quiet or stopping or something

The whole experience was a nightmare. Despite having gotten jaw x-rays before I went for surgery, he was "surprised" at the size of my wisdom teeth, and apparently had to yank and pull to get them out, and do additional cutting. I woke up with bruises and the wounds in my mouth didn't heal for months (surgery was in early October 2003, my mouth was bleeding till January 04)

Kate's comment about the shouting dentist had me laughing so hard.  Thanks Kate.

When I first heard about this case, I wonder if Murray was a Dexter like vigilantly.

When I had my wisdom teeth out, I was just given Novocaine. I didn't feel a thing, but it did creep me out to hear cracking noises in my mouth.

Murray gets the maximum sentence of 4 years.  Too bad he wasn't a celeb, he would've gotten the Lindsay Lohan special...probation with a gift basket of goodies. 

The judicial system is a joke and I don't respect it.  If MJ wasn't famous, Murray wouldn't even get a stern finger.  But because it's Michael Jackson, it's lynching time.  I'm surprised the defense didn't bring out the pedophile stuff about MJ to sway the jury..."he deserved to die!"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ambler 

Murray gets the maximum sentence of 4 years.  Too bad he wasn't a celeb, he would've gotten the Lindsay Lohan special...probation with a gift basket of goodies. 

 

The judicial system is a joke and I don't respect it.  If MJ wasn't famous, Murray wouldn't even get a stern finger.  But because it's Michael Jackson, it's lynching time.  I'm surprised the defense didn't bring out the pedophile stuff about MJ to sway the jury..."he deserved to die!"

In all seriousness, I think they wanted to bring up in the trial Michael Jackson's past drug seeking behaviour or something like that to show this was a long standing pattern of behaviour and if it hadn't been Dr Murray, it would have been someone else but they were blocked from all of that. I think they were only allowed to talk about the direct facts of the specific events connected to the death.

I am a doctor and co-incidentally, we were looking at using some propofol for something a few weeks before this happened and after talking with 3 anaethetists and a number of other staff, we eventually decided against it. This was with a dose of 10mg (or 1mL).

In my opinion, I can say that he should have never gotten involved, he was hardly the first person they asked.

Having said that, having taken the job, he should have done the following things: (I still think using propofol like this was terrible though, there's reasons why it's so restricted here in Australia.)

Have the patient 1) on oxygen 2) on monitoring 3) had airways equipment and actually know how to resuscitate someone, I do an airways course as often as possible to keep up to date - just did one two weeks ago 4) and most important, never let him out of his sight while he's under the influence of the medication.

So yes, in my opinion I can't see how he could have escaped a penalty. 

However, in terms of the maximum penalty, I could only see that being the case if he was totally at fault and there's certainly seems to have been other contributing factors. I wasn't terribly impressed with some of the judge's remarks either about how great a danger Dr Murray was to the public either. Like you said, if this was a Mr John Smith I don't think any of this would be the case. I'm wondering how much of this will get tossed on appeal because it does seem to smack of extra penalties because a celebrity was involved.