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Lobbyist Survivor: the "Gang of 12" Supercommittee

post #1 of 16
Thread Starter 

Who will get cut?  Defense?  Farm subsidies?  Oil subsidies?  Tax giveaways to the top 1%?  The lobbyists for each interest are fighting it out by wining and dining the Supercommittee, sometimes within a single law firm, sometimes within the psyche of a single lobbyist.  It's not just what gets cut by the deficit commission--it's that if the Supercommittee doesn't come up with a solution, automatic triggers will go into effect and cut the special interests' smorgasborg of taxpayer money, including that which hemorrhages out to the military-industrial complex.  

 

The GOP will clearly want to cut Medicare/Medicaid, but there's intense pressure on the Dems to protect these programs at all cost (for good reason). 

 

Anyway, the Supercommittee has to come up with its plan in 12 days, so the incessant lobbying has gone into overdrive.  Some Republicans want out of the Grover Norquist pledge to protect the rich at all costs.  Some are trying to get out of the pledge to leave the rich alone and further gouge the middle/working class.  This whole exercise should be watched closely.  It will and should inform who should get voted for and against in 2012. 

post #2 of 16

This whole thing has the chance to blow up spectacularly and probably will. The Dems will roll over. You know they will.

post #3 of 16
Thread Starter 

It would be really stupid* of the Dems to roll over given what everybody knows is happening out there in the world and what polls are saying about how the majority of Americans feel about Medicare cuts versus closing corporate loopholes/ending tax cuts for the rich.  And even if they do, the President could veto whatever they come up with, which would trigger the automatic cuts (which will not affect Medicare benefits). 

 

*which isn't to say that the Dems aren't capable of committing acts of stupidity.

post #4 of 16

http://news.yahoo.com/debt-deal-prospects-sour-amid-partisan-wrangling-165656539.html

 

Not surprising. So how the hell is this going to go down? The cuts don't start until 2013 right? I assume if the Dems or Reps take back all of Congress in 2012 they can just change this and submit a different plan right?  

post #5 of 16
Thread Starter 

I think this is the mousetrap Obama set for Congress.  It's truly lobbyist survivor.  I'm glad Bernie Sanders is out there speaking up about leaving Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid alone.  They don't get touched by the triggers, so if the Supercommittee doesn't come up with something, they're safe.  But if the Dems cave and cut these programs, Obama might veto.  Revenue is going to have to be part of the solution, and the target should be the people who have spent the better part of 30-40 years chipping away at their own tax responsibilities to the point that a large swath of them pay no taxes at all. 

post #6 of 16

You exclude SS, Medicare and Medicaid, you have to gut Defense. And that just won't happen. I think this is simply one more shell game: the cuts wouldn't come into effect until 2013, leaving plenty of time for Congress to weasel out of actually doing anything. The only thing that might happen is that some more Ratings Agencies might join Moody's in lowering the US's rating.

post #7 of 16
Thread Starter 

That's always possible.  But when you consider defense, there's this new book by Jane Mayer about the ridiculous privatization craze when Bush et al wanted to hide their massive expansion of government by hiring contractors in intelligence and defense.  They have these palatial suites in the beltway and get massive taxpayer payouts but end up making intelligence more of a bureaucratic tarpit than it was prior to 9/11.  There's a lot of fat in defense.

 

Also, consider two things: 1) Social Security is entirely separate from the budget and didn't contribute one penny to the deficit; and 2) the problem with medicare and medicaid stems from rising PRIVATE health industry costs that have no checks on them, short of the provision in Obama's healthcare bill that they have to spend 85% of premiums on actual care.  None.  The pharmaceutical industry and the healthcare industry are monopolized to within an inch of their lives and have no competition to bring costs down.  A public option would have done this but, of course, we don't get that. 

post #8 of 16

from Paul Krugman a couple days ago...

 

it might be considered simplistic, but it does really come down to ones' moral worldview....

Quote:

Failure Is Good

It’s a bird! It’s a plane! It’s a complete turkey! It’s the supercommittee!

 

By next Wednesday, the so-called supercommittee, a bipartisan group of legislators, is supposed to reach an agreement on how to reduce future deficits. Barring an evil miracle — I’ll explain the evil part later — the committee will fail to meet that deadline.

 

If this news surprises you, you haven’t been paying attention. If it depresses you, cheer up: In this case, failure is good.

 

Why was the supercommittee doomed to fail? Mainly because the gulf between our two major political parties is so wide. Republicans and Democrats don’t just have different priorities; they live in different intellectual and moral universes.

 

In Democrat-world, up is up and down is down. Raising taxes increases revenue, and cutting spending while the economy is still depressed reduces employment. But in Republican-world, down is up. The way to increase revenue is to cut taxes on corporations and the wealthy, and slashing government spending is a job-creation strategy. Try getting a leading Republican to admit that the Bush tax cuts increased the deficit or that sharp cuts in government spending (except on the military) would hurt the economic recovery.

 

Moreover, the parties have sharply different views of what constitutes economic justice.

 

Democrats see social insurance programs, from Social Security to food stamps, as serving the moral imperative of providing basic security to our fellow citizens and helping those in need.

 

Republicans have a totally different view. They may soft-pedal that view in public — in last year’s elections, they even managed to pose as defenders of Medicare — but, in private, they view the welfare state as immoral, a matter of forcing citizens at gunpoint to hand their money over to other people. By creating Social Security, declared Rick Perry in his book “Fed Up!”, F.D.R. was “violently tossing aside any respect for our founding principles.” Does anyone doubt that he was speaking for many in his party?

 

So the supercommittee brought together legislators who disagree completely both about how the world works and about the proper role of government. Why did anyone think this would work?

 

Well, maybe the idea was that the parties would compromise out of fear that there would be a political price for seeming intransigent. But this could only happen if the news media were willing to point out who is really refusing to compromise. And they aren’t. If and when the supercommittee fails, virtually all news reports will be he-said, she-said, quoting Democrats who blame Republicans and vice versa without ever explaining the truth.

 

Oh, and let me give a special shout-out to “centrist” pundits who won’t admit that President Obama has already given them what they want. The dialogue seems to go like this. Pundit: “Why won’t the president come out for a mix of spending cuts and tax hikes?” Mr. Obama: “I support a mix of spending cuts and tax hikes.” Pundit: “Why won’t the president come out for a mix of spending cuts and tax hikes?”

 

You see, admitting that one side is willing to make concessions, while the other isn’t, would tarnish one’s centrist credentials. And the result is that the G.O.P. pays no price for refusing to give an inch.

 

So the supercommittee will fail — and that’s good.

 

For one thing, history tells us that the Republican Party would renege on its side of any deal as soon as it got the chance. Remember, the U.S. fiscal outlook was pretty good in 2000, but, as soon as Republicans gained control of the White House, they squandered the surplus on tax cuts and unfunded wars. So any deal reached now would, in practice, be nothing more than a deal to slash Social Security and Medicare, with no lasting improvement in the deficit.

 

Also, any deal reached now would almost surely end up worsening the economic slump. Slashing spending while the economy is depressed destroys jobs, and it’s probably even counterproductive in terms of deficit reduction, since it leads to lower revenue both now and in the future. And current projections, like those of the Federal Reserve, suggest that the economy will remain depressed at least through 2014. Better to have no deal than a deal that imposes spending cuts in the next few years.

 

But don’t we eventually have to match spending and revenue? Yes, we do. But the decision about how to do that isn’t about accounting. It’s about fundamental values — and it’s a decision that should be made by voters, not by some committee that allegedly transcends the partisan divide.

 

Eventually, one side or the other of that divide will get the kind of popular mandate it needs to resolve our long-run budget issues. Until then, attempts to strike a Grand Bargain are fundamentally destructive. If the supercommittee fails, as expected, it will be time to celebrate.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/18/opinion/krugman-failure-is-good.html?_r=1&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

post #9 of 16

Well I think Defense, SS, and Medicare suffer from bloat and masses of waste, fraud and abuse. In fact I suspect that if the government actually made a systematic effort to really go after WF and A, we'd save Billions and who knows? Might not even have a budget problem. But that's my weirdo fantasy world.

post #10 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by VTRan View Post

from Paul Krugman a couple days ago...

 

it might be considered simplistic, but it does really come down to ones' moral worldview....

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/18/opinion/krugman-failure-is-good.html?_r=1&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

Why is it that Republicans were irresponsible for saying this exact same thing in August, but now it's OK?! It seems both parties are simply incapable of bringing even a modicum of maturity or rationality to the governing process. And they seem unaware or don't care that the world is watching. I hope OWS kicks into high gear on this: the Tea Party too. We really need an upwelling of popular outrage about this crap.

post #11 of 16
Thread Starter 

Cylon, Medicare is defrauded perpetually, as witnessed by the current Governor of Florida, who was CEO of a company that perpetrated the largest case of Medicare fraud in US history.  There needs to be a robust white collar crime division of the FBI, which Bush decimated post 9/11.  Try getting anyone on the right to support beefing up the FBI.  Beyond fraud, Medicare has something like a 3 or 4% overhead, so administered as directed and policed of fraud, I don't see where the waste is.  Social Security is the same.  As it stands now, it's funded till I think 2050, and if the cap were lifted or augmented, it would be fully funded in perpetuity.  And again, beef up the white collar crime division for SS fraud (though I don't hear nearly as much about SS fraud as Medicare fraud). 

 

But when you get to defense, the waste, fraud and abuse are mind-boggling.  I'm not anti-defense.  I'm glad we have a strong defense.  It's this contractor craze, along with defense contracts to fund  unproven expensive hardware that never gets off the ground, that bothers me.  The black budget stuff. 

 

And VTran, Krugman is almost always right.  He's certainly right about the corporate media's selective coverage of the intransigence of Republicans.  Even the New York Times and NPR dance around the fact that the GOP blocks progress at every opportunity. 

post #12 of 16
Thread Starter 

Evidently the Supercommittee is declaring defeat because Republicans won't roll back the Bush tax cuts.  What I don't understand is, how can rank and file Republicans still support their GOP representatives in Congress when all polls show that the majority of Americans want the top brackets to start paying their fair share of taxes and to preserve Medicare? 

post #13 of 16

 

"... but, in private, they view the welfare state as immoral, a matter of forcing citizens at gunpoint to hand their money over to other people."
 
Do the people who believe this completely miss that if they don't have some kind of welfare state, they might find themselves handing over their money at actual gunpoint on a regular basis?
post #14 of 16

I hope the Republican's desire to gut Medicare and SS gets broadcast very, very loudly this time out. Old people vote, and are probably largely responsible for the disproportionate clout wielded by Republicans, a party most people are completely sick of at this point. Even the Tea Party wants their Social Security and Medicare maintained (Remember "government out of social security"?) Make it clear that these people want to destroy SS and Medicare and their support among all but the hardcore crazy will evaporate.

post #15 of 16

That has happened. Last year when it looked like the Tea Party had real traction, there were Town Halls where people were screaming at their Reps. I remember one YouTube video where a Congressman was trying to "re-assure" his constituents at a Town Hall that his proposed changes to SS would only affect people 55 and younger, at which point one of said constituents screamed "you're screwing US" at him. I think Reps have gotten the message loud and clear, which is why they are being quiet now.

post #16 of 16
Thread Starter 

What the Republicans have been trying to do is make the Democrats actually do the dirty work, or at least get their hands dirty too.  But this trigger mechanism is interesting because the Bush tax cuts expire at the end of the year.  The only way to resurrect them is as a separate bill.  If the triggers really do go into effect, it will have to be 50% defense cuts, 50% non-defense cuts, with Social Security, Medicaid, Medicare (except for a cut on the provider side that can't exceed 2%, which I don't like but which is better than a COLA cut or raising of the age or whatever), unemployment and other lifeline programs off the table.  It's going to be fascinating to see how this plays out.  Obama said today that he'll veto any attempt to roll back the trigger mechanism. 

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