Rewatching Buffy

I'm of the opinion that seasons 2 & 3 are very worth your time.  In particular, season 3 tends to stand out for me.  

Great show. They put it up on Netflix so I went through all of them, and have started out on Angel but kinda fell off that wagon midway through season...1 i think? I just finished the Ep where the Lawyer from Wolfram and Heart takes the overseeing position, or whatever.

 

 

Anyway, my favorite parts of Buffy was the first season in College, everything got really fucked up then. Its definitely worth it though, all the way to the end.

Go ahead and do it, redryder. Far as I'm concerned, seasons two and three are the pinnacle of show, so I couldn't imagine calling oneself a fan yet missing those episodes. Quality-wise, they hold up just fine, provided you can get past the full-frame SD picture and sometimes cheesy FX.

 

And, truthfully, I'm not even sure that picking up Buffy partway through season three counts as getting into that fandom late. You'd be surprised how many people found that show later than that, even after it had wrapped. Heck, I've heard people say they didn't watch Buffy until after they discovered Firefly.

Plenty may have attempted to copy Whedons style after Buffy and Angel - but no ones matched or bettered him. I only watched both shows together a few years back and they held up fantastically, one of the most enjoyable tv experiences I've had.

 

I say definitely do it.

My older brother stood by as I watched Buffy all through junior high and high school and refused to get on board when I told him he'd like it.  Fast forward a few years after the show ends, and a friend shows him Serenity, from there he goes to Firefly and then Buffy and Angel.  "Hey, Grace, can I borrow your Buffy dvds?"  "Hey, remember when I told you to watch this show 10 years ago?"  Better late than never, I guess.

 

But, yes, seasons 2 and especially 3 are actually my favorites of the series.  Definitely worth your time.

837 posts over a 5 year period says that the general consensus in this community is "yes".  A  good part of that last 10 pages is just me gushing, but still.

 

I also recommend Noel Murray's recaps at the AV Club.  Quality stuff, and he just finished the series last week.

 

 

Another vote for The Avclub (Formerly The Onion Avclub). Noel Murray went back through Buffy and Angel and rewatched every single episode and did a review, the comments on each episode frequently are over a thousand.

 

They're finishing up Angel Season five next year.

 

I'd highly recommend getting back on the Angel train Dave, it just gets progressively better. There's a school of thought that it actually ends up surpassing the show it spun off from.

I know, I watched Season 7 many many years ago and really enjoyed it, so i wanted to wait and go through it all again to make that a better rewatch. I'll definitely try again, though with Skyrim, doing anything else has been harder and harder lol

 

 

Let me join the chorus and say that, yes, you should definitely do it. I re-watched the entire series back in '09 and I was worried that having experienced shows like Lost, BSG, and The Shield would make Buffy...less...on another viewing. My worries were so unfounded. I may have loved the show even more the second time around.

As previously mentioned, you don't have to buy it, it's on Instant!

 

The woman I'm seeing right now is a big Buffy fan and finally got me to sit down and watch it, and it's a lot of fun! Willow and Xander are my favorite characters so far, but I'm deeply invested in everyone's arc regardless of whether or not I like them. I'm so far behind on TV that I'm fighting to catch up on this and Supernatural and Breaking Bad and jesus christ I'm going to die before I watch everything.

I'll be another voice saying "Heck yes!" I just rewatched it while introducing it to my roommate, and it still holds up really well. Also, I'm a diehard advocate of later Buffy seasons, but even I think Season 2 is the best season

 

Gotta love the pilot from the heady days of 1997 where Buffy and Cordelia were gushing about the hotness of James Spader.

 

I love Buffy, the first show I really invested in. I've yet to forgive the show for

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

but I love it just the same. My favorite season rotates between 2 and 3, but I really like the fifth season.

Season 1 is by no means great, but perfectly watchable. I think the episode "Angel", where Buffy and him first meet, is a pretty essential part of the series lore. Seasons 2 and 3 are certainly good, but I've always been a season 4 man. That's where I first started watching when I was in 9th grade, so theres a little nostalgia, but I still love that season on it's own merits. So many great funny moments, the haunted house, the past Buffys, amazing stuff. Sure, Reilly is blander than Wonderbread, but he didn't annoy as much as Dawn early in Season 5.

 

Then came Season 6, the Bummer Season, my 2nd favorite season, containing one of my favorites ever, the fast food episode. Holy shit is that one awesome. I'm afraid that's as in-depth as my Buffy thoughts get tonight, forgive me.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who likes season 4 a lot. Everyone seems to dig season 2 and 3 more, and they've definitely got the most dramatically powerful arcs of the series with the slow burn Angel and Faith story lines, but pound-for-pound, no season has more of my favourite moments and episodes than season 4. The season lacks a strong villain unlike the previous two, but it makes up for that by having so many episodes that take some crazy gimmick and just run with it. From silence, to an alternate universe (done much better than in "The Wish"), to the body switch, to the dream episode, it's chock full of inspired flights of fancy.

 

I really liked the Riley character too, even if his relationship with Buffy didn't have the urgency of the Angel one. Another plus is that Anya really comes into her own in that season. The show kinda lost me when Glory came in during season 5. What a shitty, annoying villain. Season 5 at least has "The Replacement", one of my favourite episodes of the series, but after the first few episodes of season 5, in my opinion it's slim pickings for quality episodes until the end of the series. I hate so many of the season 6 story lines (especially what's done with Spike, totally ruining that character) and I think season 7 flat out sucks, except for "Storyteller" - the last decent gimmick-y episode.

Just popping in here real quick to second Schwartz's recommendation that you all check out the Buffy/Angel Appreciation Thread.

 

But yeah, just start fresh with Season 1, Episode 1. If only because young SMG is so darn cute and perky.

It had been a long time since I checked out any "Buffy" episodes, but a few of them were on back-to-back two or three months ago.  I just couldn't stop watching.  The show still made me laugh and had characters I still cared for. 

 

Seasons two and three are my favorite ones, redryder.   

"And boys? Let's watch the swearing."

I'll say the best seasons where 2,3, and 5. While much of season 6 was a downer, I think the finale justifies it

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

No love for 4, Chaz? Glory sucks. After re-watching season 4 recently, I've really soured on the Tara character. I think she was a pretty obvious 'invented-by-the-writers-to-give-another-character-a-love-interest' type, and there wasn't a lot to her personality. She just had a bunch of quirks like stuttering and always looking at the ground nervously.

 

Not much of a character. Willow falling for her was unconvincing. From the beginning, you could tell Tara wanted her bad, because Tara was a socially inept loner with no friends. She immediately leeches on to Willow, always just waiting for Willow to come spend time with her. She's pathetic and has no life.

 

We don't really get any understandable reason why Willow would be interested in her, aside from the fact that she's good with magic.

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

Edited by Naisu Baddi - 11/22/11 at 7:29am

I agree with all of this, including the Glory hate. I really enjoyed the dream episode in season 4 too. Especially the cheese man.

 

Seriously, go for it. It's completely worth it just for Season 2, which is fantastic.

 

Also, a lot of the (effectively) standalone episodes like The Zeppo are genius.

   I like 4, but I have issues with it. Adam is a boring villain, and I can't stand Riley. Baddi everything you wrote about Tara I think applies to Riley. He is the definition of bland. I believe Angel spoke for all Buffy fans when he said of Riley:"I can't believe your sleeping with this guy," and "Riley. I don't like him." The big arc I'm not a fan of, but I like the stand alone episodes like Hush and Restless. I bought the Willow Tara relationship. Tara was a lot like Willow before she met Buffy. She was shy and unsure of herself. As the show went on she became more self assured. Even breaking up with Willow when she starting using magic as a crutch.

 

   I agree with you about Kennedy.

 

  

Didn't like Joss throwing a hissy fit and writing Oz out early because Seth Green wanted to move on at the end of the series. That felt rushed and cheap in the way it destroyed the Oz character. Four, more than any of the others, is a real standalone transitional series. Spike and Anya get absorbed into the group, there's no base of operations for the Scoobs, and they really struggle to make the Big Bad concept work outside of the high school setting. I don't hate it - there's too many great one-off episodes for that - but it's a harsh comedown after series three.

God, Kennedy. She makes Connor seem likeable.

 

This is what Seth Green once said on the subject. I'm still wondering what exactly to make of it:

 

http://www.avclub.com/articles/seth-green,2034/

 

Buffy The Vampire Slayer (1997-2000)—"Oz"

SG: Great experience. Lot of work. Tons of hours in make-up. But a good time. I got to be a foot-kickin', zombie-stabbin', guitar-playin' werewolf! That was a pretty cool show!

AVC: Did you have any input into the character?

SG: Not in creating it, but I think in defining it. Over time, I got to add my flourishes and ideas or suggestions along the way, but Joss Whedon and the writers on that show had really great ideas, and I felt that if I could just interpret them, I'd be in good shape.

AVC: When he left the show, how much of that was your impetus and how much was theirs?

SG: There was a point at which I approached Joss and just said I was really… I felt like we hadn't done anything that we had talked about. I felt like the character's potential vs. what we actually were doing were in drastic opposition. And I was getting other opportunities, so I asked to be let out, because I spent an entire season as a regular on the show, not doing or saying anything. They'd bound me to a series-regular contract, yet the character didn't really necessitate being in every episode and every scene, so I found myself forced into scenes contractually that I really had no place or role in. So I'd spend five days a week, 12 to 14 hours a day, to be in a scene with nine other people, and hopefully get to say "I think Buffy's right!" I was like, "This isn't what we talked about." And I had another opportunity to do a movie, so I requested being let out for six episodes to do it, and it was just… As much as the character was peripheral, to get me off for six episodes apparently would've caused too much turmoil, so they just found a way to make me exit gracefully.

 

What do you think about Connor's last arc on the show? I thought even if someone didn't like his character up to that point, it had a good chance of making it totally worth it. 

 

I thought it was very clever how they re-introduced him, chances are the viewers weren't consciously thinking of him at the point when he's suddenly there after that great lead in dialogue before the credits, which many people I'm sure didn't expect "Well, that's the thing, he's absolutely fine." He certainly came across as much more well adjusted (and hence bearable) after that too.

 

Season Five Connor is jim-dandy. Season Four Connor is like the Anti-Dawn.

So I'm the only one who's favorite series of Buffy is her final one huh? 

Definitely the only one I've ever heard of.  Weirdo.

It's neck and neck between four and seven for me, I'm an enigma.

AND season 1 has this(It's a montage, but it's the first part of the video, the talent show)

 

 

 

I recently saw Buffy on Instant and considered diving into the show. Never have seen a single ep. This thread just reminded me to get on that.

Just watched "The Body" again. Never before have I been so relieved by comic relief. Of course it's a really disturbing episode (and was harder to watch this time than it's ever been before), but this was the first time I watched it realizing that Whedon sprinkled some low-key humour throughout that went a long way towards making its dramatic impact less devastating.

 

Others may disagree with me, but I thought it was really funny to see Giles react as he does when he first arrives at Buffy's house. The futility of him assuming he could just fix everything by charging to the rescue cracked me up. It helped that what he reacted to was off screen (because any time we actually saw it was just completely unbearable).

 

Also got a kick out of Dawn's condescending "I still remember how to pee" line when Buffy stupidly asks her if she wants someone to go to the bathroom with her, and Anya's "get the fuck away from me" body language when Xander tries to console her after her meltdown. I laughed out loud at Willow freaking out over her clothing too, when she laments, "why does all my clothing have stupid stuff on it?" and we see she has a Hawaiian girl cartoon character shirt, complete with hula skirt hanging off it.

 

The episode wasn't perfect, though. The rest of Willow's clothing scene was awful. I generally like Alyson Hannigan's acting on the show, but when she has to show grief, she goes way over-the-top, and this was one of the worst examples. And Tara's dialog makes me cringe. "Shhh, darling[...]we can be strong like Amazons"? Really, Joss? Really? Dawn calling her classmate a "beeotch" was pretty lame too, although it was a little funnier the second time when she muttered it under her breath right after the girl asked her how she's doing with a friendly smile.

 

I really dislike the Dawn and Tara characters, and as was often the case with them, their scenes and dialog in this episode were mostly excruciating. Those missteps aside, it's still a powerful episode. After all these years, this show can still surprise me. I've never found this episode so simultaneously upsetting and admirable for its expert use of comic relief.

 

The stark early scene with Buffy reacting to what happened was so disquieting that it almost made me sick. I'm so glad the whole episode wasn't like this and had moments which diffuse the tension with laughter. Anya finding the sweater Willow was obsessing about (only to shove it in a drawer without telling anyone) and Xander getting a parking ticket were great little bits of subtle dark humour. Wicked punchlines like those were welcome in an episode where most of the climactic moments were of the heartbreaking variety.

And you post on this board?

 

Fun fact: The Body has never been shown on British TV since its first airing due to its disturbing nature.

 

(Fun fact addendum: I just made that up, but it definitely wasn't repeated all the times Buffy was shown on Sky One. Might be shown now it's airing on some other random Sky channel).

I'm on episode four of the first season.  Already we've had a student's hands spontaneously combust and a teacher go missing, only to turn up dead on campus.  Why is this school not under investigation?  Haha.

In season two your question will be answered.

In a "Character winkingly references the question" way or "No, this is seriously why the school has never been investigated" way?

 

It really doesn't bother me much at all, but a few episodes in and a lot of the most bizarre shit has occurred directly on school grounds, discovered by students not in one the whole "We're above the Hellmouth" situation like Buffy and the gang are.  Although I did get a laugh out of how the students rationalized the vampires hijacking the club for the Harvest as part of rival gangs.

If you're really concerned about that type of realism, the show probably isn't for you.

Oh no, it certainly doesn't break the show for me in the slightest.  It's more or less an observation that I find funny, as a lot of the most supernatural stuff has been concentrated on school grounds in broad daylight.  I'm just amused by how all of this has happened right in front of the other students, and no one seems to think it's too unusual.  I expected any action to be set in the school to wave away those questions by having the events only be witnessed by Buffy and her friends, swept under the rug by them, etc.

 

Aside from that, I'm enjoying the season so far.  I can understand its weaknesses to be sure, but it's not nearly as rough as some people cautioned.

Season two and three address both of these.

Essentially, two things more or less cover this issue: there are authorities that are aware of supernatural goings-on but find it beneficial to cover them up; and all the other kids in school are too wrapped up in their own shit to bother with Buffy and her gang, just like real teenagers.

I like all 7 seasons, warts and all. I don't get the Glory hate - for me, Season 5 is arc-writing perfection leading up to the most epic of endings. Like I said, I love it all, but I totally understand people who love the ending of 5 so much that they pretend 6 and 7 never happened.

 

Don't get me started on the 8 and 9 comics. Actually, you can't get me started because they never happened. What was I talking about again?

I think in season 3 there's a joke about how the school newspaper has an obituary section, so the student body is aware of it on some level at least.

There's also the prom and graduation episodes, which take on this issue much more directly than a joke about the school newspaper.

Good to know.

 

I'm on Episode 9 at the moment, and my thoughts remain largely unchanged.  I think episodes 7 and 8 of the first season have been my favorite so far.  Episode 7 is the superior plot-centered episode, and 8 excels in terms of best representing the looser "Monster of the Week format".   It's a funny inversion of the "Kids read from a book they shouldn't a summon a demon" concept:  the idea of Moloch being summoned not exactly by the "traditional" method (passages in his book read aloud) but by having the relevant passages scanned into the school's computer system is great.  The idea of him then having a neatly designed robotic form makes the last ten minutes satisfying.  My one issue with the episode is the time line:  I know Moloch seduces others with the promise of love, but he gets access to a convenient building in town (former technology plant, which is made fully functional again and no one seems to notice) and a team of scientists pretty quickly.  There's also a suicide on school grounds (although the moment leading up to it is very effective), which happens not two episodes after the principal is apparently devoured in his office by wolves.  The people in this school have worse luck than the Defense Against the Dark Arts professors who apply to work at Hogwarts.

 

I think the one issue with the "Monster of the Week" episodes is that they weaken the central villain, in this case The Master.  Buffy's variation of the weekly monster format works because those monsters generally comment on the characters - like Xander's possession by the animal spirit externalizing all of the feelings he has kept inside of him - but the show often forgets that The Master exists at all.  Dude is already a hard sell because he looks and sounds like an undead Who from Whoville, but it seems like we're only reminded of him and his convoluted plans every other episode, if only for a few minutes.

Man, if you liked "I Robot, You Jane", you're going to freaking love the rest of the show, cause that's probably my least favorite episode in the whole series.

 

Yeah, the Master really doesn't get a lot of burn in the first season, which is a shame because I think he could've been really effective if they'd built him up more. Be assured though, the rest of the seasons don't suffer from that problem. As I said in the other Whedon thread, Season 1 is really a case of the show not quite knowing what it is yet, and there's a lot more monster-of-the-week stuff, and less of the serialized storytelling that becomes the show's biggest strength.

 

 

S1 is anomalous in a lot of ways, and one of them is that the Master isn't as fleshed out as the Big Bads of later seasons.  He's a super-vampire and Buffy's the vampire slayer and that kind of takes care of setting up the conflict between them, and this is still at the dawn of the era of the cable drama, when serialization was not considered a good thing by pretty much anyone.  If you're liking it so far, just wait.  S2 executes literally everything about the show, from performances to action to dialogue to seasonal plotting, with far more confidence and polish. 

 

Also, spoilers abound, but there is a lot of really in depth conversation about the shows in this thread.  If you are so inclined, several people (myself included) used it at different points to sort of liveblog their way through seasons of the shows.  This one is probably just as good, really, but I get a little grammar-nerd twitch from seeing the "Rewatching Buffy" thread perverted from its stated purpose.  Which really shouldn't concern you in the slightest.

Well, compared to what I've seen up until Episode 9, I thought that it was the most effective "Monster of the Week"-centric episode.  Once I've watched the entire series, I could very well look back on it as strong for Season 1 but weak in retrospect.  All I know is that I found Moloch to be one of the more credible, non-vampiric spins on the "Monster of the Week", literally representing the dangers of online interaction at their most ridiculous extreme.  It also has one of my favorite ending moments so far, with Buffy and Xander trying to convince Willow that they have also experienced their own dating woes, only for all of them to realize what they're saying about their own lives and looking around awkwardly.

 

Schwartz:  Thanks for the recommendation.  I'll definitely take a look through that thread to see how others responded to the episodes that I've currently finished.

 

I do like Season One in spite of its flaws, but I'm prepared to love Season Two.  If the show continues with its format of at least every other episode having an independent monster, I look forward to seeing stronger central villains that aren't as forgotten as The Master.  The Master's whole arc pretty much reminds me of Whiplash from Iron Man 2, who is sidelined for whole chunks of that film in one location (the warehouse), and the writers don't seem to know how to rectify that plotting issue.  Mostly, we get to see him react to his minions failing and talk about his tenth plan that will also be foiled whenever the show decides to let Buffy become aware of it.

Also, it's mentioned up above, but in case you missed it, the AV Club recaps of Buffy/Angel are really excellent, and well worth checking out as you watch through the episodes.