"I'd like to test that theory..." I jumped up and down like a little girl when that moment occurred.
No mention of "Bored now"? Perhaps the single most disturbing onscreen death in the whole series?
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"I'd like to test that theory..." I jumped up and down like a little girl when that moment occurred.
No mention of "Bored now"? Perhaps the single most disturbing onscreen death in the whole series?
That was quite a satisfying finale. I still have a great deal of problems with the season as a whole, including a very shaky middle and the indulging of more soap opera elements that clashed with the show instead of making the melodramatic incident work alongside its tone. It's all laid down a little too thick. But it picks up well enough at the end to make me forgive more than I should.
I'm really glad I had Angel Season three to get me through Buffy season six. It was a definite struggle with a few moments of sublime greatness.
I feel much the same way. Season Six definitely has some of the best highs in the series, but it also has some of its lowest points for me - and I'm not talking about the emotional state of each character, but rather the execution of the idea that misery should be all-encompassing and predictably packaged. There's some terrific emotional truths, but also too much melodrama and tonal inconsistency that makes certain episodes simply collapse into a sort of of emotionally hollow parody of a soap opera. It feels like another, much more generic show at times (and not a better one), because the writers often fail to reconcile the best elements of the show with the season's darker turns. It's that blend of success and complete failure that makes it a very frustrating watch.
But I've heard that in some ways Season Seven is more successful in doing some great character work without compromising what gives this show its identity, so I'm moving ahead with the hope that I'll find more to like than I did in Season Six.
Season 7 is very much warmed over Buffy. I don't mean that as an insult to the cast and crew, but it's clear they were stung by reaction to S6 and thus fall back on what's made the show successful over the years.
Ha. Liked how they revealed Buffy's "back to school" gift for Dawn (a cellphone!) when she's in danger. Their relationship is maturing in interesting, logical ways, keeping with the idea last season that it's simply not smart to expect to shield and protect even those closest to you when they share the same world. You have to let them in sometimes.
For as vital as she was to 5's overarching plot, 7 is Dawn's best season imo.
+110.
And maybe the most Whedon-esque aspect of it is that he doesn't get anything resembling a clean win out of it.
Absolutely agree. She goes from irritating but necassary in 5 to just plain irritating in 6, to finally becoming a well rounded and downright likeable character come 7 - and this is coming from someone who downright hated her in seasons 5 and 6 - like, Conner-hatred.
Damn, that Gnarl was creepy (not surprisingly, it's played by Camden Toy). Most unsettling rhyming ever.
Good lord, YES. Literally jumped out of my fucking seat when that was first run.
Willow's a veritable quote machine in those last two episodes. "My God. You need every square inch of your ass kicked."
Shaky start, but yes, it does. Ironically, though, this will become the season you come within a hair's breadth of actively disliking Buffy as a character.
We are talking about skin-eating demon, right? Because, yeah, only monster on the entire show (The Gentlemen come close, but no cigar) that every truly scared the shit out of me.
Yes, the demon who paralyzes his victims and then slowly eats their skin over a period of hours while they helplessly watch.
Why is a one-off character who barely interacted with Willow appearing before her instead of Tara? I'm assuming Amber Benson was unavailable?
Correct. I remember at the time there was talk of her reappearing but then that fell through. I can't remember if it was a scheduling thing or if there was a bit of bad blood, like she didn't just want to come back for such a small bit. I don't think they had the same bad blood that Chrisma Carpenter did.
Although that girl was just a one off I always liked her and her ep really worked for me so it wasn't as distracting as it should be.
A good episode, but it falls short of being a great one. This is probably the first episode held in such high esteem that didn't quite click with me. I wasn't much a fan of Willow's segment and how it developed into a rather clunky effort to make her kill herself, while Buffy's was dragged out perhaps just a bit too much for my liking. In all honesty, their initial plans for this episode sounded better than its finished form, especially with how Xander would have been represented (his absence here is curious) and Amber Benson would have made an appearance (I at least understand why she didn't, and the girl's actress does have a nice presence, but her non-connection with Willow feels a little sloppy).
It also looks like Andrew is going to be a recurring character, which frightens me quite a bit. Is he going to be the one character who comes dangerously close for ruining a season for me? Just don't like the guy at all and I fear that his inevitable "redemption" will be half-assed. We'll see where this goes, but I'm not hopeful.

It also looks like Andrew is going to be a recurring character, which frightens me quite a bit. Is he going to be the one character who comes dangerously close for ruining a season for me? Just don't like the guy at all and I fear that his inevitable "redemption" will be half-assed. We'll see where this goes, but I'm not hopeful.
The only thing I will say about Andrew is "the vum-pyres."
Which you won't get right away.
Admittedly, in addition to not liking the guy or his actor my fears come from the show not really having any well-integrated recurring characters since Season Three (Dawn and Tara being two exceptions -- though my downright liking Tara probably makes up for her misuse sometimes -- but they were more easily associated with the group).

A good episode, but it falls short of being a great one. This is probably the first episode held in such high esteem that didn't quite click with me. I wasn't much a fan of Willow's segment and how it developed into a rather clunky effort to make her kill herself, while Buffy's was dragged out perhaps just a bit too much for my liking. In all honesty, their initial plans for this episode sounded better than its finished form, especially with how Xander would have been represented (his absence here is curious) and Amber Benson would have made an appearance (I at least understand why she didn't, and the girl's actress does have a nice presence, but her non-connection with Willow feels a little sloppy).
It also looks like Andrew is going to be a recurring character, which frightens me quite a bit. Is he going to be the one character who comes dangerously close for ruining a season for me? Just don't like the guy at all and I fear that his inevitable "redemption" will be half-assed. We'll see where this goes, but I'm not hopeful.
I thought Andrew was an interesting addition, if for no other reason that either of the other members of The Trio were already previously established and went through their own arcs. Seeing the character on the other side of his "supervillainry," especially with his "everyone please like me" and "wow, isn't this all so cool" attitudes keeps his character interesting to me. Plus, I think the nerd jokes are funny. And I like how the series eventually concludes his arc, for what it's worth.
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Although I'm somewhat at a loss as to how to understand his character in Angel. Yes, it's clear that Buffy and friends are supposed to be heavy on the side of the established "good" in order to contrast with Season 5 of Angel's blurring of the good/evil lines, but Andrew as a nerdy James Bondish watcher-in-training? The only times his character seems true to his roots to me is when he devolves back into nerdery and Spike worship.
The nerd jokes have kind of grown a bit stale for me by this point, especially because the show hasn't put an interesting spin on them and they seem lazy in comparison to everyone else's sharp one-liners. The "Haha, nerd references!" were funny for a time in Season Six, but now they're just a bit grating.
I think I might like Andrew somewhat more if they had switched his actor with Jonathan's, who just handles the cliches better. A lot of my problems with new additions over the seasons is that they are characters you might be interested in seeing for four or five episodes, but not more than half of a season and beyond.
Fuck, if they had to bring someone new in, why not Clem? Dude is actually funny and the group could use a more balanced human-to-demon ratio.
Mostly, I don't want this season to be overstuffed at the expense of our established characters getting their arcs ended well, since most of the core group is still interesting and shouldn't be pushed aside for the latecomers (we're over 1/3 into the season now). I already know that we get a houseful of new additions this season, and that scares me.
Regarding cast bloat: If it's reassuring at all, we never see Dawn's sub-Scooby group of classmates again.
My biggest problem with Andrew is that most of his material would otherwise go to Xander, who is in desperate need of something to do for most of the season already.
That's kind of reassuring, but at the same time a bit weird too. They're introduced as Dawn's new best friends who share her secret and then...poof? I didn't actually mind that Next Generation set-up because it could have tied into Dawn's increasing participation in her sister's world, possibly creating conflict between Buffy and the New Scoobies going off on their own. Maybe it could have been a little mini-arc, four episodes or so of their attempts to work independently. I don't think that would have came at the expense of the main characters, and in fact it could have greatly contributed to an interesting arc for Dawn.
As for your complaint about Andrew, that's one of my primary worries: Jonathan and Andrew both kind of seem like leeches post-Season Six, and in Andrew's case not a particularly interesting one. I'll have to see how his arc works with the rest of the cast and the central conflict, because if it comes at their expense this season I'm going to be somewhat disappointed.
Not that I'm some huge Andrew apologist, but I think the nerd jokes can come off stale and just haven't aged as well because nerds have been brought into the mainstream with stuff like Big Bang Theory and the onslaught of nerd/gamer culture. The kind of stuff coming from Andrew wasn't necessarily ahead of it's time, but it is a lot less unique now or at least seems that way to me. I throw Big Bang Theory in there not because I've ever even watched it or have an opinion, but because I'm relatively nerdy compared to many people I have hung out with, and the non-nerd people thing BBT is the funniest thing ever, which I'm inclined to be skeptical about.
Jonathan might've been interesting, but I think it wouldn't have worked for me, primarily because of his history with the Scoobies, as strange as that sounds. Their first interaction with him was Buffy talking him down from suicide and then he just showed up occasionally until the end of high school. Then you have Superstar, where his self-centered narcissism caused all kinds of problems. On to the Trio, where he purposely started to screw stuff up for them and even tried to kill Buffy. Yeah, he was a misunderstood nerd, but that doesn't overshadow the fact that he was a wishy-washy, totally self-concerned jerk and attempted murderer. Plus, the whole time, no one really ever gave a crap about Jonathan anyway. Even when he showed up and wasn't trying to kill someone, they always just patted him on the head and sent him on his way.
Andrew, on the other hand, may have been stirring up all kinds of crap with the trio, but it was mostly just so he could belong with others, which I think shows itself in his interaction with the Buffy gang as well. And unlike Jonathan, who if captured would probably have sat in the corner quietly, Andrew actively attempts to be involved, regardless of whether they want him to or not. I'd rather he be there, possibly obnoxious but with his own small character stuff, than a non-entity who's there because the show didn't know what was left to do with him. And because The Trio was a group of humans and most of what they did was supernatural stuff, you can't simply hand them over to the police, especially in a place like Sunnydale. It makes sense for Andrew to be there given the previous events.
Also, comparing Andrew's nerd stuff to the one-liners, I'm pretty sure it was intentional that he's not as like-able or witty. He doesn't belong in the group, which is why he's there. And regarding him taking up space that other characters could be using for their character development, I think they give him enough time to work his stuff out without taking away too much of everyone else. I think Xander could've done with some more screen time, but the Season 6 finale put his character in a really good perspective with regard to him being almost the strong, silent-yet-witty backbone of the group, a far cry from bumbly, skateboarding pilot episode Xander. He gets a few really good moments in season 7 regardless, I think.
Probably, someone on the message boards (Might have been me! Oh, I'm old!) called Dawn's peer group the "Scrappies"and that was the end of it. I would have liked to see a deeper re-examination of the old 'high-school-is-hell' metaphor.

Not that I'm some huge Andrew apologist, but I think the nerd jokes can come off stale and just haven't aged as well because nerds have been brought into the mainstream with stuff like Big Bang Theory and the onslaught of nerd/gamer culture. The kind of stuff coming from Andrew wasn't necessarily ahead of it's time, but it is a lot less unique now or at least seems that way to me. I throw Big Bang Theory in there not because I've ever even watched it or have an opinion, but because I'm relatively nerdy compared to many people I have hung out with, and the non-nerd people thing BBT is the funniest thing ever, which I'm inclined to be skeptical about.
Jonathan might've been interesting, but I think it wouldn't have worked for me, primarily because of his history with the Scoobies, as strange as that sounds. Their first interaction with him was Buffy talking him down from suicide and then he just showed up occasionally until the end of high school. Then you have Superstar, where his self-centered narcissism caused all kinds of problems. On to the Trio, where he purposely started to screw stuff up for them and even tried to kill Buffy. Yeah, he was a misunderstood nerd, but that doesn't overshadow the fact that he was a wishy-washy, totally self-concerned jerk and attempted murderer. Plus, the whole time, no one really ever gave a crap about Jonathan anyway. Even when he showed up and wasn't trying to kill someone, they always just patted him on the head and sent him on his way.
Andrew, on the other hand, may have been stirring up all kinds of crap with the trio, but it was mostly just so he could belong with others, which I think shows itself in his interaction with the Buffy gang as well. And unlike Jonathan, who if captured would probably have sat in the corner quietly, Andrew actively attempts to be involved, regardless of whether they want him to or not. I'd rather he be there, possibly obnoxious but with his own small character stuff, than a non-entity who's there because the show didn't know what was left to do with him. And because The Trio was a group of humans and most of what they did was supernatural stuff, you can't simply hand them over to the police, especially in a place like Sunnydale. It makes sense for Andrew to be there given the previous events.
Also, comparing Andrew's nerd stuff to the one-liners, I'm pretty sure it was intentional that he's not as like-able or witty. He doesn't belong in the group, which is why he's there. And regarding him taking up space that other characters could be using for their character development, I think they give him enough time to work his stuff out without taking away too much of everyone else. I think Xander could've done with some more screen time, but the Season 6 finale put his character in a really good perspective with regard to him being almost the strong, silent-yet-witty backbone of the group, a far cry from bumbly, skateboarding pilot episode Xander. He gets a few really good moments in season 7 regardless, I think.
Jonathan was trying to be involved, and he pretty much implied that he was going to start caring more about the people who ignored him before he was killed. Besides, I meant that switching Jonathan's actor with Andrew's probably would have made the character come off better for me. As much as I might be able to understand why his presence is justified, there's always going to be that barrier when the actor is no good. That's more or less how I felt about Riley: understood why he was there, but the actor irked me to the point where, no matter how much others justify why he's there, it simply doesn't work for me.
Part of why the obvious nerd dialogue falls flat for me is because it calls too much attention to the cliche that's formed these characters. It's not a matter of it not having aged well (back then, I'm sure most nerds talked about more than Star Wars), it's a matter of a show that usually plays around with stereotype not doing anything particularly interesting with the granddaddy of grating stereotypes: the nerd who references pop culture. You've already set up a barrier that the character has to break through in order to be worthwhile, and no matter where the character is coming from it makes them a chore to watch if the writers can't accomplish that.
Like him or not, Andrew does deliver one of the most hilarious and elaborate pop-culture-references ever in "Storyteller".
There must have been some ideas for them that were scrapped after the episode aired, because they could have either been killed or parted ways after the incident without acting all friendly with Dawn (and doesn't Buffy even tell them all to look out for each other?). The incompleteness of them being introduced as Dawn's version of Willow and Xander, never to be heard from again, strikes me as extremely odd. I suppose the next writers could have simply ignored this development because they didn't want to focus so much on Dawn's adventures at school, but it's still pretty weird.

I meant that switching Jonathan's actor with Andrew's probably would have made the character come off better for me. As much as I might be able to understand why his presence is justified, there's always going to be that barrier when the actor is no good. That's more or less how I felt about Riley: understood why he was there, but the actor irked me to the point where, no matter how much others justify why he's there, it simply doesn't work for me.
Part of why the obvious nerd dialogue falls flat for me is because it calls too much attention to the cliche that's formed these characters. It's not a matter of it not having aged well (back then, I'm sure most nerds talked about more than Star Wars), it's a matter of a show that usually plays around with stereotype not doing anything particularly interesting with the granddaddy of grating stereotypes: the nerd who references pop culture. You've already set up a barrier that the character has to break through in order to be worthwhile, and no matter where the character is coming from it makes them a chore to watch if the writers can't accomplish that.
Oh, missed the "switch the actor" part of it. Sorry about that.
I do think the actor who plays Andrew gets a little better before the series ends though. And there's an episode later where they break down his "pop culture nerd" stereotype a little bit by directly addressing it. It's one of the stronger season 7 episodes for me.
EDIT: Hammerhead beat me to it. I was trying to be more subtle.
Oh, I'm definitely going to give Andrew a chance. I've always been a little hostile towards latecomers in my favorite shows.
I do think they manage to do more with Andrew than they did with Riley. I never had any hate for the guy but I hardly noticed when he left the show.
I've been working on my own re-watch of Buffy, but I've only gotten to The Witch. I wish I had some more free time.
"Man, I hate playing vampire towns."
The show has gotten to the point where it can no longer seriously pretend that everyone in Sunnydale is an idiot, so it's settled for ignoring the issue altogether and just throwing a self-mocking reference every once in a while. Now it seems like quite a few other people that aren't government are aware of Sunnydale.
Made me laugh. At least they're no longer using the "people just forget or try to find other explanations" defense from earlier seasons.
Aimee Mann isn't just anybody. Of course she'd be hip to vampires.
AHHHH GILES
Starting the next episode immediately.
Andrew is great. He is as a goooooooood.
Goodbye to the most under-served characters in the series, the (British) Watchers Council!
I actually expected a knife or some other small weapon to suddenly pierce the poor man's back or something mid-speech, then thought the entire room got off just fine after a few moments passed by without incident..then I saw that exterior shot and, well, "You're Fucked" might as well have been pointing down on that building in neon.
I'm feeling optimistic about the seasonal arc here. Everything feels just a little tighter than what's come before.
:)
And now the Potentials have dampened that enthusiasm of mine somewhat, but if there's just three of them I suppose I'll withhold the "overstuffed" accusation that's been slowly building up within me. The AV Club users are absolutely brutal when it comes to the lot of these latecomers, though. Not sure what to think about a houseful of Season 5 Dawns (I liked Dawn back then, but admittedly the character was hardly at her best because she had just a few basic traits), especially since I know where they're going with Kennedy and I don't like the sound of it.
I think I'd like it more if they dropped the thick-accented one and had two Potentials coming into Sunnydale. I'm not sure I understand how this entire "Potential" business works, either. So there are multiple non-active Potentials around the world at a time (but powerless to actually be as effective as the one true Slayer, who is kept in one part of the world at a time), and one of them receives full Slayer powers when the last active Slayer dies? In flashback, we saw Buffy being told by a man that she was the one Slayer, so does that mean not every potential Slayer is, at one point, aware of being a Potential until it's their time? For all of this show's strengths in writing, the one thing it has never quite managed is an economy in elaborating on these central concepts, simply making them more convoluted when they try.
Yes. "One girl in all the world."
Whatever mystical force initiated this whole process really didn't think the specifics out so well.
How people feel about Kennedy seems directly reflective of how strongly you felt about Tara. I was always lukewarm on her (she was the epitome of the show's tendency to write human love interests as essentially likeable but lacking in flavor), so I was never much bothered by her. However one feels about Kennedy, I appreciate that the show was deliberate about not simply making her a clone of Tara.
As for the seasonal arc, it is as divisive as the rest of seasons 6-7, but I found it to be relatively strong, particularly after the previous year's listless, moribund stretches.
I think my main issue is that Kennedy's relationship with Willow makes very little sense given how they seemingly drag it out into a long-term, serious romance. Say what you will about Amber Benson, but in my opinion she's a much stronger actress and had more chemistry with Hannigan than Kennedy's actress.
I don't like any of the actresses that we've seen so far for the Potentials, which quite frankly scares me. There's simply too many of them, and now that we're halfway through the season it seems like having so many of them will turn out to be a tremendous miscalculation in introducing far too much at so late a stage.
The Potentials are an ambitious idea, but they fill out the cast list to the breaking point. I'm not sure what to think of this.
See why I was saying Andrew's not so bad? At least he HAS character. The show doesn't know how to handle a mass of characters. The Initiative and the Potentials are groups whose members are largely interchangeable. Whedon and his people handle small bands of people much more effectively.
I think you've hit the nail on the head there with that, especially with how the show is naturally much better when it's handling a small group. Introducing a large amount of newcomers when the very final season of a long-running show is halfway over means that you need to know what you want to do with those characters. Unlikable additions don't have the luxury of a season's worth of development to become more likable, and excusing their annoyances because they're an important plot element only gets you so far. With a character like Kennedy, it seems like she'd need to be around for a season or two before coming into her own, much like Cordelia or Tara. Things could change, but at this point their plan appears to be simply settling with giving a few Potentials more than one distinguishing trait and that's that.
In less urgent circumstances, a lot of these characters seem like they'd be the Cordelias of the show, slowly working into the good graces of the group. But there are two differences with the Potentials: they're pretty quickly forced into what was before a smaller group, and none of them are as flatteringly depicted as Buffy, Xander, Willow etc. were at that age, making their Dawn-esque annoyances - in such a large concentration - something that you'd think our main characters would hate if they weren't meant to be there for the story. You're giving the audience such a short amount of time to give a damn beyond a metaphorical reading of what they're supposed to represent.
Is Felicia Day there yet? I will brook no insolence when it comes to her.
Anyone denigrating Miss Days good name can meet me at dawn for pistols drawn at ten paces.
Why couldn't the Potential who sounds like she came out of a Charles Dickens novel be the one impersonated by the First?
This is my problem with Kennedy. Willow loved Tara so much, her death made her want to end the world. Now she she is in a relationship with the first woman that show s an interest with her?! I get why Kennedy would have the hots for Willow. I would sell my soul for her. I don't get what Willow sees in her. She had magic and could be socially awkward in common with Tara. What do Kennedy and Willow have in common?