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Battlestar Galactica...should I? - Page 4

post #151 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambler View Post


I think it's weird hulu wouldn't make it available if its so important.

 


You can manage if you haven't seen it though there were a couple of surprises that it probably would have been nice to have been actually surprised by if you'd started there. 

 

post #152 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambler View Post


I think it's weird hulu wouldn't make it available if its so important.

 

Do you let Hulu rights lawyers make all your viewing decisions for you? Come on, man, plunk down $5 for a used dvd of the mini-series already. It's one of the best 3 hour sci-fi action movies you'll likely see.

 

You're only hurting yourself otherwise.

post #153 of 257
Originally Posted by Shan View PostSeason 1 is fantastic. No arguments from me on that at least. I still think it's one of the best, if not the best season of television ever made.


Season one is definitely the most consistent in terms of quality, I think. It sort of reinforces my opinion that TV seasons in general don't need to go more than 13 episodes.

post #154 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteboy Jones View Post


Season one is definitely the most consistent in terms of quality, I think. It sort of reinforces my opinion that TV seasons in general don't need to go more than 13 episodes.



I agree, I think the show could definitely have been told as 4 seasons of about 12 episodes each. The longer seasons didn't work in its favour, a lot of treading water. The good UK shows tend to work well with short seasons.

post #155 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren Peace View Post

I think they wrote to Nicki Clyne's strengths (being a bitch). But even all that was ultimately just a part of terrorizing Tyrol. He dies as literally the most bitter man on Earth (most likely).


Backtracking a bit, this is way off base.  Clyne's performance was extremely vulnerable and sympathetic.  But whenever she was off screen every other character would inexplicably be like "man, that Callie sucks. What a bitch." 

 

post #156 of 257

     Quote:

Originally Posted by Whiteboy Jones View Post

Season one is definitely the most consistent in terms of quality, I think. It sort of reinforces my opinion that TV seasons in general don't need to go more than 13 episodes.

 

Season 2 would like to have a few words with you.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwartz View Post

Backtracking a bit, this is way off base.  Clyne's performance was extremely vulnerable and sympathetic.  But whenever she was off screen every other character would inexplicably be like "man, that Callie sucks. What a bitch." 


 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

Agreed. I know not everyone was a fan of Cally, and I occasionally found her cute and sweet, and yes, simple, but I certainly didn't cheer her death. I remember watching the episode during its premiere night with a couple of other people who did, and even they shut up when they showed Cally's cold, dead face floating outside the ship.

 


Edited by Leto II - 12/10/11 at 12:14pm
post #157 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leto II View Post

     Quote:

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

 

 

Season 2 would like to have a few words with you.
 


Agreed. I know not everyone was a fan of Cally, and I occasionally found her cute and sweet, and yes, simple, but I certainly didn't cheer her death. I remember watching the episode during its premiere night with a couple of other people who did, and even they shut up when they showed Cally's cold, dead face floating outside the ship.

 

 

 


So spoiler tags were just tossed out the airlock on this thread, huh?

 

post #158 of 257

Whoops...I had that section "spoiler"-ed when I first posted, but had to "un-spoiler" it when, for some reason, it wouldn't let me edit, and it took me three more edits before they finally showed up again.

 

My bad.

post #159 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leto II View Post

Whoops...I had that section "spoiler"-ed when I first posted, but had to "un-spoiler" it when, for some reason, it wouldn't let me edit, and it took me three more edits before they finally showed up again.

 

My bad.



No worries just wanted to get clear on what the guidelines were

post #160 of 257

Hilariously apt:

post #161 of 257

Well, I started watching this weekend on Netflix.  Through the pilot and first episodes.  Even got my wife pulled into the show as well.  I don't know what she expected, but as we're watching the 2nd part of the pilot, she was like, "Oh my God, this is awful" referring to the part where they have to start leaving the ships (and the people) that don't have the FTL engines.  And I responded with, "Yeah, this isn't all happy fun time space travels in the future."  I wanted to spend the whole weekend watching, but life occurs, unfortunately.  And ironically, we flipped over and watched a few episodes of Portlandia as well.

post #162 of 257
Thread Starter 

It took me a while to get back to this, but I crammed several episodes in the last few hours and I must say...being only on episode 6, so far it's some of the best TV I've ever been lucky enough to witness.  This show is truly something amazing.  And it's just getting better by the episode.  This is something I would've absolutely been obsessed with as a teenager...but as a 32 year old I'm still thoroughly enjoying it.

post #163 of 257

Holy crap...and you're not even at the best part of the series yet, either. Just wait, bro.

post #164 of 257
Thread Starter 

Jesus Christ, I'm up to episode 10 of season 2 and this show has gone places I never dreamed it could.  It's gotten insanely good.

 

Whoever ran this show needs to jump to The Walking Dead asap and clean house.

post #165 of 257

Just throwing this out there, but personally, I'd stop at Season 3 Episode 9.  It was the last one I remember really enjoying, without reservation.

post #166 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBananaGrabber View Post

Just throwing this out there, but personally, I'd stop at Season 3 Episode 9.  It was the last one I remember really enjoying, without reservation.



This. I didn't want to be the first to say it, but all the good will you're building is headed toward the centre of the see-saw.

 

post #167 of 257
Thread Starter 

Man, that sucks...how bad we talking here?

post #168 of 257

I have a lot of criticism to throw at the 4th season, but it's well worth the ride.  It's got nothing on how bad Lost got when it had to wrap up its mythological shenanigans, for what that's worth.

post #169 of 257

Yeah, it doesn't quite measure up to earlier seasons, so in that respect the endgame of BSG is a disappointment. It didn't ruin the show for me, though, and there are parts of it that do work. So, it doesn't quite stick the landing, but it doesn't kill the show. It's worth the ride to see where some of the characters end up.

post #170 of 257

I maintain that the best thing you could do is to just watch the show, react to it as you will and judge for yourself. With this particular show there's more to be lost than gained from letting other people colour your opinions and expectations.

post #171 of 257

The final season is merely a downgrade from "Holy shit, this is brilliant!" to "Holy shit, this is pretty intense!" with scattered moments of "Hmm...they're clearly feeling around in the dark here...Christ, Anders can't act".

post #172 of 257

I'll never understand why season 4 gets thrown so much shit while the frequently tedious season 3 gets a pass. I suspect the long gaps inbetween had a lot to do with it.

post #173 of 257

Quote:

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Decade View Post

The final season is merely a downgrade from "Holy shit, this is brilliant!" to "Holy shit, this is pretty intense!" with scattered moments of "Hmm...they're clearly feeling around in the dark here...Christ, Anders can't act".

 



Third season gets a bonus "Shut up Kat" and 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

Big WTF with "All Along the Watchtower"

 

For me personally, if I could go back in time, I would tell myself not to proceed after midpoint of Season 3.

 

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

And even then, it's less that the show gets wrecked, and themes are not developed or expounded on, and more that I wish I could have quit when it was perfect.

 

post #174 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul C View Post

I maintain that the best thing you could do is to just watch the show, react to it as you will and judge for yourself.


That should probably be taken as a given, but this is the internet.  Really, I can't imagine anyone getting into the back half of the show and just quitting.  Parts get dodgy, but never to an extent that someone who was a fan would stop wanting to see what comes next (although if any episode that would do it, it's "No Exit")

 

post #175 of 257

Yep, the use of AATW is pretty damn silly & the back half of Season 3 is tedious but, really, everything past that point is merely heavy turbulence, not an outright plane crash. I usually watch the entire series once a year & it's a fantastic ride from start to finish in spite of the intermittent downturn in quality.

post #176 of 257

OH yeah, I was talking about diminishing returns, but not Lost levels of rug-pulling.

post #177 of 257

As ive said in regards to both Walking Dead and Lost, many of these ultra-serialized shows have an achilles heel in that wherever you point out the show as jumping the shark or shitting the bed or whatever phrase, from reading on here and elsewhere, it almost always correlates to the point in the show where you caught up to realtime episodes, stopped watching 5 episode blocks, and waited each week for each episode.   I found s4 to be kind of wheel turning, yes, but i was also waiting a week for each one.  compared to earlier seasons, it doesnt move THAT much more slowly or have that much more exposition and plot meanderings, it just feels that way because taking an isolated 40 min block, nothing much gets resolved, so you're left kind of unsatisfied. It's not until you can engorge several episodes worth of arcs and subplots that you get a sense of 'yes that was good'.  

 

I caught up to Lost at the beginning of season 6, and im like wtf this is so tedious.  Now granted, the show had been tedious for a while, but i didnt notice bcause tediousness and lack of resolution doesn't bother you when you have just one more ep right after it.

Same with Walking Dead.  I marathoned both s1 and s2 in chunks, and enjoyed it immensely.  I am specifically avoiding watching the back half of s2 until i watch several eps in a row, so i don't succumb to the wheelspinning of trying to fit a large story into 40 minute chunks.

 

Lots of the hyperbole thrown around about BSG and how it goes downhill, are IMO colored by people's first impressions, having caught up with the show somewhere around its zenith (end of s2 maybe?) and lost the momentum of big immersive blocks of television.

post #178 of 257

I think you are projecting your own experience here. I did see Season one in one long gulp (actually one week), but the subsequent seasons were watched week by week on iTunes then Amazon, then iTunes again. I used to watch that progress bar every Sunday. Then I bought the DVDs, and found I enjoyed individual episodes, it was a slog to watch the whole series from start to finish. But that's just me.


There is no wheel spinning in season 1. Some in S2, lots in S3 and S4. It's hard to argue that.

post #179 of 257

I watched it as it aired, like I imagine the vast majority of people did and still do with television, and I am definitely counted amongst those who thought the final season was a huge disappointment.

 

 

post #180 of 257

I watched the show in one giant Blu-ray chunk and was shocked to see how much the last two seasons were trashed.  I understand why people could have major problems with the finale, but I thought it was stunning and completely lived up to the show.  I sort of wonder if a chunk of the hate comes from...

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

The show definitively saying there is a 'God,' counter to many viewers' beliefs.  (I say this as an athiest.)

 

Ignoring the finale, there are other wonderful moments in 4. 

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

Finding that Earth is a nuclear waste, the attempted coup, Dee's suicide.

 

Oh well, at least Faraci's on my side, so someone agrees with me.

post #181 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dark Shape View Post

I watched the show in one giant Blu-ray chunk and was shocked to see how much the last two seasons were trashed.  I understand why people could have major problems with the finale, but I thought it was stunning and completely lived up to the show.  I sort of wonder if a chunk of the hate comes from...

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

The show definitively saying there is a 'God,' counter to many viewers' beliefs.  (I say this as an athiest.)

 

Ignoring the finale, there are other wonderful moments in 4. 

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

Finding that Earth is a nuclear waste, the attempted coup, Dee's suicide.

 

Oh well, at least Faraci's on my side, so someone agrees with me.


Well actually...

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

 

I suspect a lot of people were turned off by the wishy washy way they dealt with the "G" issue. I mean, maybe it wasn't God, maybe it was still more evolved Cylons, or those Worm Hole laiens from Deep Space Nine. But there is no definitive answer, which can be perceived as a cop-out.

To me, the problem wasn't the idea, it was the fact that the characters in the show don't figure it out. Starbuck returns and they can only think she's a Cylon, even though the real Cylonds deny it, but then everyone in the fleet is like "eh, whatever", except when they aren't. It smacks of a very clumsy plot device, not a thoughtful meditation on faith or religion.

 

I don't recall anyone dissing the Earth episode or Dee's suicide. Both flow naturally from the themes and previous stories.

 

 

 

post #182 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul C View Post

I'll never understand why season 4 gets thrown so much shit while the frequently tedious season 3 gets a pass. I suspect the long gaps inbetween had a lot to do with it.



Agreed. Ambler, if you're watching an episode starting with season 3 that has a credit reading "Written by Michael Taylor," good luck because you're in for a bumpy fucking ride. That guy sucks. That boxing episode. Good god, so terrible.

 

And the first two seasons of the show can't prepare you for how horribly it ends. I know some fans defend it, but it's downright inexplicable to me. The ending of LOST was bad and this is on its level, but they're very different. Imagine if LOST ended with everything wrapping up but it doesn't make any sense instead of wrapping up with a thousand loose ends and still not making any sense. Either way, it's a shit sandwich. 

post #183 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dark Shape View Post

I watched the show in one giant Blu-ray chunk and was shocked to see how much the last two seasons were trashed.  I understand why people could have major problems with the finale, but I thought it was stunning and completely lived up to the show.  I sort of wonder if a chunk of the hate comes from...

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

 

Why would I hate the ending for that reason? That's like you saying "I love the ending and don't understand why people don't. It must be because they (unlike me) are unable to separate their personal feelings about complex issues from their fiction. What a bunch of idiots." No, I don't like the ending of the show because its sloppy, inconsistent, forced, contrived and preachy. Oh yeah, and it makes absolutely no sense. None. Whatsoever. And that's starting with season 3 into season 4 and stretching all the way into the awful finale. But by all means, continue to assume I'm just a simple mouth breather because I don't love the ending to a dumb sci-fi robot show that started with a hell of a lot more promise than it finished.

post #184 of 257
The last 2 seasons weren't as good the first 2 (mostly due to nagging structural flaws) but the show ended pretty awesomely, IMO. It's like we watched different shows.
post #185 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parker View Post

 

Why would I hate the ending for that reason? That's like you saying "I love the ending and don't understand why people don't. It must be because they (unlike me) are unable to separate their personal feelings about complex issues from their fiction. What a bunch of idiots." No, I don't like the ending of the show because its sloppy, inconsistent, forced, contrived and preachy. Oh yeah, and it makes absolutely no sense. None. Whatsoever. And that's starting with season 3 into season 4 and stretching all the way into the awful finale. But by all means, continue to assume I'm just a simple mouth breather because I don't love the ending to a dumb sci-fi robot show that started with a hell of a lot more promise than it finished.



When did I say that was the only reason?  I wondered if a portion of the hate came from the show picking a side counter to many of its viewers.  I hardly thought that was the reason people went off on the finale.  But please, continue to think I've insulted you terribly.  Clearly I think you're a moron because you have a different opinion of a group of television episodes than I do.

post #186 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parker View Post

 

Why would I hate the ending for that reason? That's like you saying "I love the ending and don't understand why people don't. It must be because they (unlike me) are unable to separate their personal feelings about complex issues from their fiction. What a bunch of idiots." No, I don't like the ending of the show because its sloppy, inconsistent, forced, contrived and preachy. Oh yeah, and it makes absolutely no sense. None. Whatsoever. And that's starting with season 3 into season 4 and stretching all the way into the awful finale. But by all means, continue to assume I'm just a simple mouth breather because I don't love the ending to a dumb sci-fi robot show that started with a hell of a lot more promise than it finished.



Yup. Claiming that disliking the finale is a result of a visceral reaction to the show's politics/religion gives no credit to the people who watched it all the way through, and felt betrayed on a storytelling level, not a philosophical one.

 

post #187 of 257

BSG always ran into trouble when it's focus turned toward it's own mythology and away from the real world plight of it's characters.

 

My big sticking point with the ending is...

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

...the whole "Mitochondrial Eve"/"Hey, let's start breeding with the natives" bullshit. I was hoping against hope that the fleet was going to land on Earth, along with their ship & technology, and set up a new society on an island and call it Atlantis. Thus tying the show into real Earth mythology. Hell, they even (accidentally) set this up being that the buildings on ancient Kobol resembled the city of Atlantis as Plato described it.

post #188 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Decade View Post

 

My big sticking point with the ending is...

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

...the whole "Mitochondrial Eve"/"Hey, let's start breeding with the natives" bullshit. I was hoping against hope that the fleet was going to land on Earth, along with their ship & technology, and set up a new society on an island and call it Atlantis. Thus tying the show into real Earth mythology. Hell, they even (accidentally) set this up being that the buildings on ancient Kobol resembled the city of Atlantis as Plato described it.

 

About that:

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

I never liked that idea because it seemed to go against what the characters learned.  To have it tie into the myth of Atlantis and have them yet again be destroyed by their own hubris/technology means that the whole journey taught them (well, I suppose more their descendants) absolutely nothing.

 

 

 

post #189 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by neoolong View Post

 

About that:

 

Well..

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

..that's assuming that Atlantis was undone by hubris alone. This is how I see it: The fleet lands on Earth & forms Atlantis; their minimal influence spreads across the world over the course of a century or two, thus giving credence to the whole Chariots Of The Gods/"alien astronauts" thing; eventually the island civilization succumbs to earthquakes & floods. The end.

 

post #190 of 257

The only aspects of the finale I really liked were

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

the overarching idea that the Colonials search for Earth, find it a blasted ruin, then adopt a new planet as Earth because "we earned it". That and the idea of collective Humanity realizing finally that their civilization is over, and deciding to try and make something better.

 

post #191 of 257

My only problem with the finale was

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

They never explained how Kara came back to life, how can she be alive while she is also dead on Earth.

Other than that I thought it good. It definitely blows the doors off of Lost's finale.

 

As far as the religious overtones.

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

As an agnostic I was fine with it. First off it was never stated who had the right God or gods. I liked when Baltar said God isn't on anybody's side. I took that to mean God or gods don't want anybody shooting abortion doctors or flying planes into buildings, or any other killing in his name. 

 

post #192 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightning Slim View Post


Yup. Claiming that disliking the finale is a result of a visceral reaction to the show's politics/religion gives no credit to the people who watched it all the way through, and felt betrayed on a storytelling level, not a philosophical one.

 

 

You guys are really overreacting to a fairly general, not to mention obvious, point.  Of course politics and philosophy are going to affect our response to the ending.  The show ultimately took a stance on spirituality that I was always going to find facile and unconvincing, so it was never going to connect with me on a certain level.  That level is largely independent of the muddled, retconned mess that the Final Five story became or how deflating the resolution to the Starbuck mystery was, but of course my personal beliefs are a factor. 

 

post #193 of 257

I think the issue has to do less with the show's "spiritual" themes and more to do with the muddled execution of them. Throughout the 4th season, we see several threads of the mythology created & abandoned. Thematically, the show kinda limps into it's crap shoot finale.

post #194 of 257
Thread Starter 

The great thing about this show is I can't really side with any particular character.  One episode I'm with Adama, the next week I think he's an idiot and am with the President or Gaias...same with Starbuck and Apollo...I keep going back and forth on everybody.  This speaks volumes about how 3 dimensional, complex and well written everyone is.

post #195 of 257

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwartz View Post
The show ultimately took a stance on spirituality that I was always going to find facile and unconvincing, so it was never going to connect with me on a certain level.


I don't really get this reaction. What 'stance on spirituality' did it take? It's a fictional show in a fictional universe with

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

fictional supernatural elements that turn out to be 'real' in the context of that universe. Is every work of fiction where supernatural is real 'facile and uninteresting', or does everything have to be secular?

 

 

 

post #196 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul C View Post

 


I don't really get this reaction. What 'stance on spirituality' did it take? It's a fictional show in a fictional universe with

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

fictional supernatural elements that turn out to be 'real' in the context of that universe. Is every work of fiction where supernatural is real 'facile and uninteresting', or does everything have to be secular?

 

 

 



No, I think this is where Dark Shape goes wrong, too.

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

He assumes folks didn't like it because it's spiritual (within it's own context as you say). But really, we don't like it because it's clumsy. I'm an atheist so I think God is fictional, and therefore have no problem with the various gods of my fictional worlds. Having everything be secular would'nt leave us with a lot of myths to play with. There's probably a whole fictional spirituality thread in the offing here!

 

 

post #197 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul C View Post

 


I don't really get this reaction. What 'stance on spirituality' did it take? It's a fictional show in a fictional universe with

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

fictional supernatural elements that turn out to be 'real' in the context of that universe. Is every work of fiction where supernatural is real 'facile and uninteresting', or does everything have to be secular?

 

 

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

 

No, not every work where the supernatural is real is "facile and uninteresting", but yes, everything does have to be secular.  I'll try to explain, noting upfront that when I say "has to" I mean in order to fully connect with me personally, not that the author(s) have failed to meet some objective criteria of storytelling.

 

I love many stories where the supernatural is real, but it generally has to be introduced upfront.  When it is just part of the world from the beginning, you can spin compelling stories out of that world, which is something many of my favorite shows (Carnivale, Buffy) do. The problem arises when you introduce the elements slowly and put a major emphasis on building a mystery around whether they are supernatural or natural phenomena.  As long as that ambiguity can be maintained, it can be very engaging, but the longer the question of "is this supernatural?" is drawn out the more deflating it is when the answer turns out to be "Yup."

 

On a plot level, it's frustrating because magic is a get-out-of-jail free card.  If you say, killed and resurrected a major character without really knowing why, saying "God did it" functions as an answer while sparing you the trouble of thinking up a more complex one.  On a thematic level, it doesn't connect with me because not only am I not a spiritual person, but it doesn't resonate with faith as I observe it in the real world.  Miracles come cheap in fiction, and expressly identifying them as "real" in the fictional context seems to validate the faithful worldview by removing the whole "faith" aspect from the equation. 

 

Put more succinctly, in "my" fiction, magic should be the set-up, not the resolution.

 

 

 

post #198 of 257

Well, I'm to the finale of Season 1 (yeah, I know it's taken forever).  My wife is going out of town this weekend, so I plan on trying to get through that, then most of season 2 while she and my son are gone.  You guys are freaking me out with the whole "Stop half way through season 3" talk.

post #199 of 257

That talk is all flimflam and jibberjabber.  It does start to drown in its own mythology a bit in the final season, but by then you wouldn't be able to stop if you wanted to.

post #200 of 257

There's actually nothing under the spoilertags. We're just trying to get you further intrigued. wink.gif

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