Young Adult Discussion

Saw this last night and couldn't agree more.  Theron should absolutely get the Oscar for this; it's too bad she's already won recently, because she's just on fire here.  She really nailed that specific type of "functioning mentally-ill" person that looks stable from a distance but is deeply self-absorbed, petty and destructive.  I love that the movie doesn't cop out and soften her and that in the end [spoiler, i guess] she absolutely learns the wrong lesson [/spoiler]

 

The short sequence where Theron drives back to her hometown for the first time with a look of utter loathing while 4 Non-Blondes plays in the background is one of my favorites scenes of the year.  

 

Excellent film.  One of the year's best.  I hope all the folks that have relentlessly shit on Diablo Cody for the last few years go see this and eat a bunch of crow.  

Very excited to see this. I told my girlfriend after a TV spot and she did not get my enthusiasm for it. I think they're selling this thing all wrong. It looks like a feel good comedy. Glad to hear it's the opposite. This should solidify my crush on Charlize Theron.

Caught it tonight and really enjoyed it.  Very dark & Theron does a great job with an unredeemable character.  Mavis is someone with a myriad of issues who doesn't make any effort to resolve them.  Coupling this with his performance in BIG FAN and Patton Oswalt shows that he needs to be getting serious work more often.

 

Definitely recommend it.

Caught this about a month ago and can't wait to see it again. This movie has a black, whithered, diseased heart, but what's best is that the film firmly takes a stance on Charlize's character (opinion: she's a fucking terrible human being), while also pulling off a miracle and making you sort of root for her in a weird way.

 

 

The best part of the movie, for me, is when Charlize has a flash of clarity during breakfast with her parents ("I think I'm an alcoholic"), and they completely ignore her and keep bugging her about her fake real estate deal that they're all butthurt about being left out of. 

 

 

The response is either going to be incredibly divided right down the middle--it's a love or loathe kind of film--or a miracle will happen and everyone will get what the film is doing and love it. If nothing else, it solidifies Reitman as having a way better grip on his horses than the thematically muddled Up in the Air led us to believe, Cody as being a screenwriter with a tongue that could likely rival Aaron Sorkin, Oswalt as a legitimate dramatic character actor with a future of terrific performances, and most of all, Theron as the hands-down best actress on her generation.

I haven't made it yet, but this might be my most anticipated of the prestige movies in theaters right now. Not sure how that happened, though it's probably a Charlize/Patton thing. 

 

From what I recall, the early word was that this was a very uncomfortable watch, but that sounds like less the case now. It kind of sounds like Bad Teacher if it was really good and was really honest about the characters.

When you write lines like "honest to blog," "moveon.org,"   and that whole "homeskillet" crap from Juno, you deserve to get shit on.   And if this film features the same kind of unrealistic, cutesy dialogue that sounds nothing like the way real people talk, she will deserve all the  derision she gets.

 

"All that hate's gonna burn you up, boy."

 

It always amuses me when people lose their minds about Diablo Cody's dialogue, and then go absolutely gaga for some of the absolutely unrealistic lines Joss Whedon and Shane Black have coming out of their characters' mouths.

I'm not a fan of Whedon, either, and can't stand Sorkin's rapid fire witticisms.  I just prefer characters to talk like actual human beings and it sounds like in Young Adult  that.they actually do that.

I just know my youngest brother-in-law is constantly saying things like "LOL" and "Powned."  So Juno doesn't really ring all that false to me.

 

And I'm not saying it's true in your case, but if Diablo Cody was a man, people would still dislike the dialog, but I bet you with nowhere near the same amount of vehemence.

Or Mamet. Hell, Apatow tries too hard on a fairly regular basis as well.

So Tarantino and the Coens would both be out then. 

Just saw this, and it's really, really great. As you guys have already noted, Theron and Oswalt are great. Additional shout-out to the guy who played Wheelchair Mike, that whole scene absolutely killed me.

 

I'm gonna have to watch it a few more times to decide exactly what I think of the ending. I do like the fact that it isn't a happy ending, but I'm not exactly sure how I feel about the way it was handled.

So good.  In discussing the film with my friend afterward, I mentioned that the tone of the film felt similar to that of the Mixology Certification episode of Community.  It's funny, sure.  But it was mostly very sad.  

 

As many people have already pointed out, it's amazing how terrible Mavis is without losing our sympathy.  Theron has to be a lock for a nomination.

 

Man, Patton Oswalt's character's backstory was just tragic.  Then to have Wheelchair Mike rollin' and rubbing it in his face in his chipper way... Just painful.

 

(speaking of Oswalt... I was actually kind of surprised how his body seemed so tiny when he took off his shirt for Mavis.  Like a baby's body, as opposed to a chubby guy's body.  Such an awkward and kinda sweet moment of vulnerability for both characters)

This is actually something I wanted to talk about, but I think I may wait until more people have seen it.  But I actually read that moment a little differently at first.

 

Theron is flawless, but this has been seriously mis-marketed. I don't know if it just hit me a weird way, but this is NOT a funny movie. I really felt a strange combination of pity for her and being genuinely disturbed by the look in her eyes and the actions she takes. Give this a slight tweak and it's a friggin' horror movie about a family and the unstable ex that comes into town looking to destroy them. But the filmmakers do deserve credit for not going for the easy happy ending.

I thought it was pretty damn funny, and the best part is that the family is never even close to being endangered. Even if Wilson is attracted to her, he mostly just pities her and there's no way in hell he's leaving his life for her, at all. I was surprised that the only person she really hurt was herself, ultimately. For the first half, I thought she was going to ruin Patrick Wilson's marriage and destroy Patton Oswalt's heart, but mostly she just fucked up her own life, sort of. Or rather, failed to stop fucking up her own life. You really get the sense that this was just one more week in the downward spiral of Mavis.

 

One of my favorites of the year. Really honest and dark in a fun way. Great performances all around.

This is a great little character study and, in my opinion, a much more accomplished film than Juno.

 

The scene Mavis has with Matt's sister at the end of the film was particularly interesting.

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

Edited by Inkblades - 12/26/11 at 5:05pm

I think its pretty damn funny. Just because its also dark doesn't make it less funny. The movie just earns its laughs the hard way. Anyways, I felt like there was a missing scene with the dog. It just kinda disappears halfway through the film and comes back at the end. Felt like a missed opportunity. Otherwise the film is pretty great. Theron's amazing. Oswalt is sad but not pathetic. The script is great (sorry Cody haters) and Reitman doesn't get in the way of the writer's voice or the actors. Not for everyone, sure, but I don't think anyone can accuse the film for being phony in any way.

>>And I'm not saying it's true in your case, but if Diablo Cody was a man, people would still dislike the dialog, but I bet you with nowhere near the same amount of vehemence.

 

I know it's a minor point and silly of me to throw in my stupid opinion but I feel like I don't mind the dialogue in that movie because it's mostly 15 year old girls saying it and the writer IS female.  Girls these days say "for cereal?", so a little bit of zany spicy dialogue is fine with me. Now, specifically per your example if the writer had been a man and it had been male characters saying that shit I would be MUCH less forgiving, and would be opposing what with the vehemence and stuff(Whedon dialogue mode over)

I really enjoyed it.  I thought is was really funny too.  I read this thread before I went, so I guess I was ready for the dark humor. I just love Charlize Theron.  She was fantastic.  So so deluded.  I know people like that.  Some of them may or may not be in my family even.  Heh.

What about the guy in the store in Juno with the "home skillet'" speech?

 

BTW, saw Young Adult and it was OK.  Not terribly funny, imo, but certainly watchable and Cody calmed her cutesy dialogue-tick down.  One thing that's always interesting is that Theron looked so much better with scenes of her just in her sweats and no makeup on.  This is true for every single good looking girl I know.   They destroy their appearance by caking on makeup.

 

Actually, the funniest thing about the movie were the reactions after the film.  One couple wanted their money back.  Another older couple said "Merry Christmas'" sarcastically to each other when the film ended.  

 

IMO, Collette Wolfe should get more work.

That was an un-cool guy desperately trying to be cool and failing miserably.

Saw this four days ago. Saw War Horse last night, and while I loved it, Young Adult is the movie I'm still thinking most about.

 

It's got so much going for it. Great writing, great themes, great acting, not to mention American-specific human emotions resulting from how our modern lives are completely beholden to our formative teenage years. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. Throw in peer and family enabling (or neglect), the pitfalls of nostalgia devoid of substance, depression, a hint of addiction, and mental instability, all without being preachy, heavy-handed or melodramatic in the slightest, and you've got a movie worth seeing and talking about at length. 

>>That was an un-cool guy desperately trying to be cool and failing miserably.

 

Exactly.  That's Rainn Wilson specifically shooting for groans.

Just came out of this.

 

I wonder how much is autobiographical pointing out to the audience that leaving your roots for fame isn't all it's cracked up to be?  Especially in light of the Kardashian reality show perpetually in the background.  This seems like a very nice treatise on the American penchant for celebrity worship and raising our young to forever chase their fifteen minutes despite the emotional toll it may take on them.  As well the writers possible feelings that she doesn't see an end to it anytime soon with that ending.

 

The woods scene lacked an easy joke I felt.

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

As to the final scene

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

I wonder if the character name of Mavis was intentional as that is(was?) a pretty popular typing software which would lead back to my autobiographical theory.  Cody does dial down the Juno-speak and seems to be pulling a Kevin Smith and shooting back at her critics but unlike him she seems to succeed.

All in all a good film that marks another notch in Oswalt's acting chops belt and I hope he continues to make these choices.  Theron is simply versatile like no other actress I can think of and continually makes good decisions on her role choices.  I doubt she will get even a nod much less and Oscar win because the bait and switch marketing for this will make the film dead in the water and doubtful that a campaign will be made for it.

I honestly thought she was going to come back to the hotel room at the end and the dog was going to be dead.

 

And the scene at the end with Matt's sister is the sister being completely honest.  It's established right away that this girl was basically stalking Mavis all through high school.  She worships Mavis and doesn't think anything Mavis does can be wrong.
 

 

I thought there would be something with the dog by the end too.  I thought the same thing for the cassette tape she plays on a loop during the opening credits.  It really seemed like it would wear out and snap by the time she reached Mercury.

This scene nearly brought me to tears (which I admit isn't saying much - I once cried during an episode of Saved by the Bell).  You're right though.  Their vulnerability and need to be desired was just so heartbreaking to me.  Theron, especially, was just so pitiful there.  Oh and I too was surprised at Oswalt's "baby" body.  God, Theron's a monster in this.

 

 

Or is she a Monster?

 

Sorry.

This feels like a film that will grow on repeat viewings, once the jarring realization that there isn't going to be any redemptive lesson for Mavis is now known to be coming.  With that in mind, the final shot is actually a pretty great summation:  she looks at her battered Cooper, but the lights still turn on and it runs.  It's broken, but hey, it works.  Which is a perfect metaphor for her.

 

Just watched this and wanted to recommend it to all Chewers.

 

My favorite scene is the Baby naming party where Mavis goes bugfuck only the be confronted by everyone there who knows she's in a bad way. It's an intervention! And she blows up at them. So very funny considering where a film like this usually would go.

 

Matt's sister is telling Mavis the truth as she sees it. She can't get out of town on her own, that's why she begs Mavis to take her away. And she helps Mavis (maybe) realize that she simply has no place in this town anymore. I prefer to see the ending as hopeful, with Mavis having to face the future. She sure ain't looking forward to it, but it beats what she's leaving behind (even though what she's leaving behind is mostly a matter of her own perceptions. It's her reality. Now she has to go find/build a new one).
 

 

Yours is the most optimistic reading of the ending I've yet to read of the film.  Interesting.

Well it ain't sunshine and flower petals and a choir of children singing "lalala", but, Mavis has cut off a destructive relationship...with her past.

Seeing the ending as any kind of hopeful kind of ruins the cycle the movie is suggesting though. The fact that she's learned nothing from her whole experience underlines the point. She's leaving at the end of the movie in the same state of mind she left the town to begin with. Yeah, she's been through a traumatic experience with a guy she really cared about. But she'd done that before too. So her attitude about who she is and where she comes from hasn't changed a bit. She's back to insisting she's above it all when she's really below everything. It's a gut punch of an ending. Having it be hopeful lessons the impact.

But with the ending of her looking at her beat-up car...  you could read it as she hasn't fully bought into that 'above-it-all' bullshit.  Some part of her is aware that it's bullshit and she's just gonna have to live with it to avoid leaving her comfort zone.  She doesn't have the benefit of 'ignorance is bliss.'  She's just going with momentum.

That's the way I read it and I think that's even less hopeful.

 

 

Mavis is a douche. Her character learns nothing, she doesn't change, she leaves Patton Oswalts sister charatcter in the shithole town because "fuck losers".

What  you are supposed to get from that scene is that: Mavis needs losers to tell her she is pretty and popular and therefore an okay person, but she has no use for the losers who like her.

 

I watched the old black and white 60's version of Lolita with a naive freind who insiste that ther was no concrete evidenc that Humbert ever actaully fucked Lo.

 

Mavis will never remember that she fucked Oswalt;s character, she will fail as a writer and will marry a hedge fund manager...

 

Dickson has it right.

I don't suggest she's "learned a valuable lesson" which would indeed cheapen the ending. But she's had the crutches of the small town she's hated and feared yet loved, and the mythical "man who was meant to be" kicked out from under her. That's why she looks so bitter at the end. Because she's in effect blown up the bridges to her past, she can now move on.
 

 

Well her alternative is to what? Commit suicide? I think she leaves the film with real self awareness yet accepting of the person she is. I'd love to see a sequel to this film just to see what happens next. It may be better than where she's at now, it many be worse, but it will be different.

 

She has ONE scene with Oswalt's sister (who must have been the model for the Babysitter in the Incredibles: she has the same manner of speaking and the face looks similar). If you met someone and after having one conversation they begged you to take them with you, would you?

 

What I took from that scene was that Mavis got confirmation of what she's always believed anyway. Only now she won't have to feel guilty about it, feel that she's missed out on the life her Ex-Boyfriends' wife enjoys, because they all suck!

 

Nope.  Just live with it.  I don't think her life now will be all that different.  I can see it going along just as it was before she got that e-mail about Patrick Wilson's new baby.  She'll be drinking 2 liter bottles of Coke and watching the Kardashians on TV again.

 

She arrived in Mercury thinking "Fuck Mercury."  She leaves the place thinking "Fuck Mercury."  The only notable change is that she now includes Patrick Wilson in that sentiment.

She may hate Mercury but her whole frame of reference is to people and events in that town. Even her career, writing novels about a hot, popular teenager, that's constant re-living of her own past (real and imagined). She "hates" Mercury because everyone's left High School and she's no longer Prom Queen.

 

And during the course of the movie she basically shits all over herself in front of the whole town, including her parents, including Patrick Wilson and his wife, and all their friends. She's ensured that she can never go home again.

I wonder how much of this story is Diablo Cody being shit-hot and then facing some career failures translated to a post-high school story.

Just saw this tonight. A great film & one of the best of the year. Waaay better than Reitman's much lauded Up In The Air. Theron should've gotten a nod, she's fuckin' incredible in this.

 

Reading the reactions above, I gotta say that calling Mavis a douche & a monster is a grossly over-simplistic read on the character. She was a depressed alcoholic dealing with some unresolved issues stemming from a teenage miscarriage, for Pete's sake. Delusional narcissism is a symptom of a larger problem & it isn't necessarily a fault of her personality.

 

I also saw her as being a more sympathetic female version of Humbert Humbert. A character who's completely unable or unwilling to look forward to the future & tries to recapture something from the past with disastrous, destructive results.  She's sad & tragic. Her breakdown was particularly hard to watch.

 

The ending is also very optimistic because we saw some major cracks appear in Mavis' narcissism. She finally let go & is now looking to the future. She's still incredibly damaged but at least she's pointed in the right direction.

 

And I don't think she was being a douche for leaving Oswalt behind to (presumably) never see or speak to him again. Why would she? Yes, she was lucky to have him there for some solace during the lowest point in her adult life but moving on is her imperative for survival now. Leaving that town & everyone in it is the only way she's gonna gain some peace. The end.

Anyone else see FunnyOrDie's 'hacked' photos and videos from Charlize Theron's phone?  

 

How can she look so gorgeous even as she sits on a toilet chanting, "SITTIN' ON A TOILET!!!!"  It's just not fair.

 

 

 

She has such control of 'duck face.'  She's great.

 

 

..and we get to the Cody Fan-Hate. If this is what results from her "failures" I hope for more!

While I appreciate and agree with the three dimensional take on the character, I can't agree that the ending was positive.  Yes, she had put the town in the background, but what else was she going to do?  She got right to the critical point, the crisis moment that could spur a real change, but I saw no evidence that actually occurred.  Instead we got the strange power play with Matt, where she basically comes into his house uninvited and forces him to sleep with her.  Which obviously on some level he wanted to do, but on another level was about Mavis finding someone in town she could control after going through the ultimate humiliation a little earlier.  Even still, there was some tenderness and understanding there (and the juxtaposition of the tender with the selfish was what made it such a great scene), and I was hopeful that I would see a sign she was changing.  But when she had that conversation with Matt's sister, I thought it was pretty clear the film was saying she used the first excuse available to reinforce her old view of herself, and to place the blame for all the events exclusively on the town's shoulders.  So, onward, yes.  And maybe even upward... who knows?  But real self-evaluation?  Real growth?  I didn't see any evidence of that.

I think the scene with Matt was simply too very damaged, bitter human beings finding solace with each other, with one of them at a breaking point. Not really a "control" thing, more a "desperation" thing.

 

As for the conversation with the sister, yes it did boost conceptions Mavis had throughout the film. Mavis is a shallow person who unfortunately is smart enough to realize that during the film. She feels the lack of real human relationships, can observe them in other people, but can't make the connection. Except when she sleeps with Matt (in fact her entire relationship with Matt is the most honest and real she has in the film). At the end she's at or approaching a moment of self-realization about who she is.