TWO BEAUTIES WILL SUCCUMB TO DE PALMA’S PASSION

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Originally Posted by CHUD Main Site Feed 

Sex! Suspense! Voyeurism! Murder!

In a De Palma movie? No.

And he's dropping Dressed To Kill comparisons? I like!

Dressed To Kill is easily one of my favorites of his.  Even if it doesn't reach those heights, at least we know what he's aiming for.

DePalma is my favorite Director but I've given up on him. Mission : Impossible was his last great movie and he's done nothing but mediocre shit since then. The Black Dahlia was his last big budget studio movie and it was awful while it didn't help that the book sucked too. I admired him for shooting Redacted for 5 Mill on Digital Video but it was a fucking Direct ripoff of his own Casualties of War. People have always shit on DePalma for being a Hitchcock ripoff artist but I honestly think that, at his best, DePalma is better than Hitchcock because Carrie pisses on everything that Hitchcock ever did.

DePalma's problem is that he's a visual master but, like Scorsese, he needs that right script and when left to his own devices he tends to go up his own ass. For the record, I hate every movie that he's written himself with the exception of Phantom of the Paradise which is a masterpiece.  

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Originally Posted by Tax Master 

People have always shit on DePalma for being a Hitchcock ripoff artist but I honestly think that, at his best, DePalma is better than Hitchcock because Carrie pisses on everything that Hitchcock ever did.

Now, let's not go crazy here...

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Originally Posted by Tax Master 

DePalma is my favorite Director but I've given up on him.

 

For the record, I hate every movie that he's written himself with the exception of Phantom of the Paradise which is a masterpiece.  

I'm not trying to start an argument or anything, but these statements just don't make sense to me.  How can someone claim De Palma is their favorite director and they go on to say that they hate Sisters, Dressed To Kill, Blow Out, Body Double, and (to a lesser degree) Obsession?  Those are probably the purest pieces of work that he has made when it comes to being true to himself.

That aside, I'll concede that his efforts have been disappointing since the mid-90s.  Snake Eyes is a bit of a guilty pleasure for me.  Mission To Mars is probably has worst film.  Both The Black Dahlia and Redacted are certainly creative misfires.  That said, I love Femme Fatale.  It is the last "pure De Palma" film he made, which gives me a lot of hope for Passion.
 

Carrie better than anything Hitch ever did?  That's crazy talk.  Psycho destroys everything DePalma ever dreamed of.

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Originally Posted by S.D. Bob Plissken 

 

I'm not trying to start an argument or anything, but these statements just don't make sense to me.  How can someone claim De Palma is their favorite director and they go on to say that they hate Sisters, Dressed To Kill, Blow Out, Body Double, and (to a lesser degree) Obsession?  Those are probably the purest pieces of work that he has made when it comes to being true to himself.

 

That aside, I'll concede that his efforts have been disappointing since the mid-90s.  Snake Eyes is a bit of a guilty pleasure for me.  Mission To Mars is probably has worst film.  Both The Black Dahlia and Redacted are certainly creative misfires.  That said, I love Femme Fatale.  It is the last "pure De Palma" film he made, which gives me a lot of hope for Passion.
 

 

I'm in your camp. Femme Fatale may not be a great film but I don't see how a De Palma fan could seriously dislike it. Even when it fails quality wise, it is 100% true to his 'philosophy'.

Why do Chewers keep falling for the same gag again and again? Anyway, I'm so happy De Palma's back, I really missed him and specifically his brand of suspense thriller. He doesn't always hit it out of the park, but even when he fails, he does it with style (okay, with the exception of Mission to Mars).

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Originally Posted by Tax Master 

DePalma is my favorite Director but I've given up on him. Mission : Impossible was his last great movie and he's done nothing but mediocre shit since then. The Black Dahlia was his last big budget studio movie and it was awful while it didn't help that the book sucked too.

BD is an excellent novel. Dark as pitch and dripping with sleaze, it's classic Ellroy

Anyway, this movie sounds intriguing. I hope it turns out well!

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Originally Posted by S.D. Bob Plissken 

 

I'm not trying to start an argument or anything, but these statements just don't make sense to me.  How can someone claim De Palma is their favorite director and they go on to say that they hate Sisters, Dressed To Kill, Blow Out, Body Double, and (to a lesser degree) Obsession?  Those are probably the purest pieces of work that he has made when it comes to being true to himself.

 

That aside, I'll concede that his efforts have been disappointing since the mid-90s.  Snake Eyes is a bit of a guilty pleasure for me.  Mission To Mars is probably has worst film.  Both The Black Dahlia and Redacted are certainly creative misfires.  That said, I love Femme Fatale.  It is the last "pure De Palma" film he made, which gives me a lot of hope for Passion.
 

 

He's my favorite Director in terms of overall style but that doesn't mean he hasn't made a lot of shit. His best movies IMHO are Carrie, Scarface, Phantom of the Paradise, The Untouchables and Mission : Impossible. When it comes to movies like Sisters, Dressed to Kill, Body Double, Raising Cain, Snake Eyes, and Femme Fatale, I feel the Hitchcock ripoff accusations are apt not to mention that they feels like half formed idea's surrounded by flashy camerawork at the expense of characterization. Blow Out was just a riff on Antonioni's Blow Up while he's even ripped himself off in the case of The Fury coming right after Carrie and Redacted being a redux of casualties of War. Then there are the train wrecks of Home Movies, Wise Guys, Bonfire of the Vanities, Mission to Mars and The Black Dahlia.

Carlito's Way could have been another masterpiece but he fucked that with his Orson Wells bullshit and showed Carlito's death at the beginning of the movie. This was a critical mistake as Carlito's Way is a SUSPENSE-THRILLER and showing the ending at the beginning is atkin to showing Evelyn Mulwray being killed at the beginning of Chinatown. It dissipates the suspense because you know it's coming. When DePalm'a did it he was obviously riffing on Citizen Kane but that movie was a character study, not a suspense thriller, so showing Kane's Death at the beginning worked as a technique.

Now, despite what I've said about most of his films, in every movie he's made there are lots of great little moments and technical flourishes, it's just that most of his movies don't come together as a cohesive whole. He's admitted that he doesn't pay much attention to characterization and is more focused on style which is both his strength and his curse. He's at his best when he applies himself to the material rather than let form dictate the content.

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Originally Posted by Princess Kate 

BD is an excellent novel. Dark as pitch and dripping with sleaze, it's classic Ellroy

 

Anyway, this movie sounds intriguing. I hope it turns out well!

Browns Requiem is James Ellroy's first novel and not only does it cover a lot of the same thing's that BD did, it did them in tighter and more entertaining way. I remember reading for years how BD was his masterpiece and after finishing it I was crushed by how boring it was. Oh and if you ever get the chance, check out the 1988 movie COP starring James Woods as it's based on Ellroy's Blood on the Moon. Great little movie.

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Originally Posted by Tax Master 

Browns Requiem is James Ellroy's first novel and not only does it cover a lot of the same thing's that BD did, it did them in tighter and more entertaining way. I remember reading for years how BD was his masterpiece and after finishing it I was crushed by how boring it was. Oh and if you ever get the chance, check out the 1988 movie COP starring James Woods as it's based on Ellroy's Blood on the Moon. Great little movie.

I think AMERICAN TABLOID might be his masterpiece, but I really like BD. I can't imagine how it could possibly be more entertaining. I have no desire to see Ellroy tell 'tighter' stories, the magic is getting swept up in the lurid universe he creates over the course of hundreds of pages. I love his stuff. I've not read BROWN'S REQUIEM though as I've heard it's really kind of a different beast than his later works

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Originally Posted by Tax Master 

When it comes to movies like Sisters, Dressed to Kill, Body Double, Raising Cain, Snake Eyes, and Femme Fatale, I feel the Hitchcock ripoff accusations are apt not to mention that they feels like half formed idea's surrounded by flashy camerawork at the expense of characterization.

The latter comment is certainly apt, but that just comes with the territory when you watch films from directors like De Palma and Argento.  They are ALL about visuals.  Everything else is secondary.  (Edit: I see you've addressed this yourself below)

As for Raising Cain, I've never gotten the Hitchcock/self rip-off complaints against it.  The film is basically a parody of the thriller genre and is intended as such.  I can't really argue with the rest of them though, as the man himself doesn't discredit the idea that Hitchcock is a massive influence on his work.

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Originally Posted by Tax Master 

Blow Out was just a riff on Antonioni's Blow Up while he's even ripped himself off in the case of The Fury coming right after Carrie and Redacted being a redux of casualties of War.

Blow Out is most definitely a riff on Blow Up.  Personally, I think it's better than Antonioni's film (which I do love).

As for The Fury?  I've always thought it odd that he chose to adapt another novel about people with psychic/psychokinetic abilities immediately after Carrie.
 

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Originally Posted by Tax Master 

Then there are the train wrecks of Home Movies, Wise Guys, Bonfire of the Vanities, Mission to Mars and The Black Dahlia.

100% agreed.