The Nightmare Before Christmas (1993)

I agree, except Tim Burton didn't direct it. He's not responsible for what works in this film at all.

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Originally Posted by Tax Master 

Furthermore, Selick hasn't done anything at this level since.

Okay, you flat-out don't know what you're talking about:

Coraline is a higher achievement than Nightmare on pretty much every level, and has the added benefit of not having been co-opted by angsty Hot Topic customers.

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Originally Posted by Tax Master 

Yeah, I know Selick was technically the "Director" but this was Burton's baby. Furthermore, Selick hasn't done anything at this level since. But then neither has Burton (I HATE Corpse Bride). So let's just say that Nightmare was the meeting of right mined people. But I would give more credit to Burton for A: coming up with the story - B: Hiring Michael McDowell (Beetlejuice) and Caroline Thompson (Edward Scissorhands) to script it - C: Bringing Danny Elfman onto the project - D: Bringing together most of the vocal talent from his previous movies.

 

So, despite your revisionist history, claiming that Burton isn't "responsible for what works in this film at all." is disingenuous at best or outright lying at worst.

It was an dream project he had, but always lacked the talent/ability/time to fully realise, so handed it over to Selick. Everything people like about this film is created by somebody else and Burton has since taken the majority credit for it being 'his'. Burton has yet to display the sheer wit and ingenuity in any film before or since. But James and the Giant Peach, Coraline and even Monkeybone all have it.

From wiki:

I enjoy the music, and all in all it's a perfectly charming tale. Props to Mr Selick for what works, after CORALINE I am confident he was the driving force behind what I like most in this film

FACT: I was forbidden to view this film upon it's release in 1993, even though many of my friends were allowed to go see it

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Originally Posted by Richard Dickson 

Okay, you flat-out don't know what you're talking about:

 

 

Coraline is a higher achievement than Nightmare on pretty much every level, and has the added benefit of not having been co-opted by angsty Hot Topic customers.

We're really gonna hold the Hot Topic thing against Nightmare? Really? It's still a terrific film in my eyes.

Coraline is indeed excellent, though I'd rank it about equal with Nightmare (they're both great, but in different ways).

CORALINE's use of 3D is truly ingenious. Watch the special features on the DVD. I wrote about it on my blog before (sadly lost), but the did fascinating things with the miniature set construction to play tricks on your sense of space

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Originally Posted by Chris Spider 

We're really gonna hold the Hot Topic thing against Nightmare? Really?

I was just taking the piss there.  But I do get a little tired of the goth girls who moon over Jack.

Considering most were still shitting their diapers when the film was released. The movie, while I did enjoy it when I was younger has been marketed to DEATH.

I think it's a fantastic little musical (for which it owes a huge debt to Danny Elfman), but the story really shits the bed near the end.  Jack just sort of shrugs off this whole journey he's been on -- he literally sings, "And what the heck, I really did my best" -- and goes back to Halloween Town with the biggest lesson seeming to be, "You are who you are, don't try anything new."

Meanwhile, Coraline was based on a story by Neil Gaiman.  Nightmare is never going to win that battle.

I know everyone loves to hate Burton now but let's not pretend he was *never* good. Not to diminish Selick's contribution but it was Burton's story and his sensibilities are all over the thing. If you've ever seen his drawings this movie is like watching them come to life. I doubt Elfman would've been involved if not for Burton, and he really peaked on this thing.

As Selick stated above, it was all about making it 'look like a Tim Burton movie'. Sure, it looks like his drawings, but he didn't do much beyond assembling the key creative crew. 

Ed Wood, Pee Wee, Beetlejuice, Mars Attacks and Edward Scissorhands are his best films. Beetlejuice has the kind of bouncy vitality that Nightmare has, but mostly because of Michael Keaton, who I imagine doesn't need an awful lot of direction to do what he does. 

He storyboarded bits of it and provided the character designs, which were rendered incredibly faithfully. And wrote the story and got his usual collaborators to write and score. If someone else had directed it it most likely would turned out similar in a lot of ways.

I'll disagree with this, and leave it at that. I don't see how he contributed to anything beyond the bones of a story and some sketches. I just think its very insulting to the people who did work on this and who are often completely overlooked because of 'Burton'.

I don't think anyone is saying Burton deserves no credit it all.  It's just that too many people want to give him ALL the credit, and that's just not fair to the considerable amount of talent Selick brought to the table.

He doesn't deserve all the credit by any means, but 'just contributing the bones of a story and some sketches' is going absurdly far in the other direction. His aesthetic and sensibilities are absolutely key to the film, it would and could not have existed in any form without his contribution as creator, designer and producer.

See, I think if the characters looked different then it would still be good, because of all the work of other people. Looking at Selicks other work, it could have been designed slightly more like that and work just as well.

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Originally Posted by Paul C 

He doesn't deserve all the credit by any means, but 'just contributing the bones of a story and some sketches' is going absurdly far in the other direction. His aesthetic and sensibilities are absolutely key to the film, it would and could not have existed in any form without his contribution as creator, designer and producer.

Agreed. This is Tim Burton's baby through and through. Obviously Henry Selick did a great job directing but I think this film would've worked no matter who was at the helm. I will say, I think Danny Elfman deserves at least as much credit as Selick for it is his songs that move the story forward and where the film is the most alive.