I've never seen Titanic...

It gets a lot of shit, most of which is deserved, but I like the movie. Like, it's one of those movies I'll invariably watch if I find out it's showing on TBS or whatever.

Billy Zane's performance alone is worth the price of admission. You'll be quoting him long after seeing the film.

"You DARE to lay hands on MY FIANCE?!"

"I put the diamond.... in the coat... ANDIPUTTHECOATONHER!"

It's a movie that overcomes its flaws, if you just let yourself go with it.  I have to admit, I'm tempted to see it again during the re-release, if for no other reason than 3D nude Kate Winslet.

I never saw it in the theater but did see it on TV.  The weird thing about it is that the awfulness of its script is completely counterbalanced by the staggering spectacle of it.  You definitely have to see it.  There's nothing else out there like Titanic. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Spider 

Somehow. Should I give it a whirl when Titanic 3D comes out in April? That awesome cast has me intrigued already.

If you like your history lesson liberally seasoned with over-wrought badly written melodrama, go for it.

Personally I'd recommend Gone With The Wind tho if cheesy, loose interpretations of history are your thing.

Zane I'll give you. Zane at least seems to understand exactly what film he's in.

Eh, it's not my thing. The idea that one of the most fascinating moments in twentieth century history isn't interesting enough to warrant being told straight and requires some bullshit soap opera placed over the top of it doesn't just suggest to me a cynical story-teller who had no business tackling the subject matter in the first place, but speaks to the height of arrogance.

But then, my Cameron issues are pretty well documented at this point. This film was the moment we went our separate ways.

Originally Posted by The Rain Dog Personally I'd recommend Gone With The Wind tho if cheesy, loose interpretations of history are your thing.

Titanic, despite its girth, is still an hour shorter and like ninety percent less stomach-churningly racist. I mean, everyone who claims to love film has to watch Wind at least once, but it's just eating your vegetables to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whiteboy Jones 

It gets a lot of shit, most of which is deserved, but I like the movie. Like, it's one of those movies I'll invariably watch if I find out it's showing on TBS or whatever.

 

Billy Zane's performance alone is worth the price of admission. You'll be quoting him long after seeing the film.

 

"You DARE to lay hands on MY FIANCE?!"

 

"I put the diamond.... in the coat... ANDIPUTTHECOATONHER!"

I think some of Kate Winslet's lines give Billy Zane's a run for the money.  "Jack, I want you to draw me like one of your French girls!"  "I'd rather be his whore than your wife."

Di Caprio and Winslet are both awful - awful. They were being directed by a meglomaniac more interested in torturing them than directing them.

Winslets incredible 'art scene' notwithstanding.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Rain Dog 

Zane I'll give you. Zane at least seems to understand exactly what film he's in.

 

Eh, it's not my thing. The idea that one of the most fascinating moments in twentieth century history isn't interesting enough to warrant being told straight and requires some bullshit soap opera placed over the top of it doesn't just suggest to me a cynical story-teller who had no business tackling the subject matter in the first place, but speaks to the height of arrogance.

 

But then, my Cameron issues are pretty well documented at this point. This film was the moment we went our separate ways.

I think film always has this problem though. When the event itself is so dramatic, how can you keep the audience engaged? You know they are there waiting for the ship to hit that Iceberg. Anything you do character-wise to try and outshine that event will fail. So instead, you try to draw the audience in, to make them part of the action in a sense. Hence shallow characters playing out conventional narratives...which all get blown to pieces when the Big Event happens.

It's that same approach that sinks (heh) Gangs of New York in my opinion. Instead of Leo's bland, boring character, give us more of Bill the Butcher and his world, something that is genuinely interesting. That is also a case where it's the characters that are the reason to see the movie, not some huge event.

I have to say, even though I resisted the movie and applauded Kenny Turan at the time for being the only major reviewer to pan it, you have to show respect to a movie that can speak to that many people.  It was a true cultural phenomenon when it was released.  I mean, most movies open big then start to drop off and are gone by the third weekend--Titanic stayed at number one for, what, 11 weeks?  When I finally did see it I understood, and the melodrama is part of it, even though the script is choke-on-your-own-bile bad.  It's part of its incredible scope.  The love story tied into this massive fated tragedy that is so epically done.  There are plenty of movies that take the Titanic disaster straight on--Cameron didn't want to make that. 

RD, I can understand having a problem with Cameron but I love his movies.  I can't say I love this one, have only seen it that one time, but I do respect it and think it should be seen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by yt 

 even though the script is choke-on-your-own-bile bad.  It's part of its incredible scope.  

I tend to listen to moves a lot while I'm at work..and I so happened to listen to Titanic today.  I had no idea how bad/corny some of this script is, but it does work for this movie in some odd way.

Yeah, it's beyond bad.  That's the weird paradox of the movie.  If any other movie had dialog that bad, you could write it off, but you can't do that with Titanic. 

Chris, you're not alone.  I've never seen it either.

I have seen clips of it and I think I pretty much know the gist of the story but I have never had the desire to actually watch the thing.

It's really the supporting cast that makes the film. Leo's rapscallion friend, the deluded captain, the noble orchestra, Winslet's horrid mother, the overzealous and fascist guard with the gun... Watching the entire supporting cast get snuffed out in increasingly bizarre ways is pretty much the charm of the film. Plus, you know, Bill Paxton is there kicking ass. 

You revisionist hipsters can keep your pride - I'll take the bullet on this one.

I genuinely like Titanic. It's a movie that works. Yes, the dialogue & romance is cheesy but if you can stomach that, you can let yourself enjoy the minor miracle this movie is. Cameron tapped deep into the indescribable intrigue of the tragedy & captured the majesty, mystery, & horror of the thing. While the dialogue is hammy, Cameron's screenplay is structured magnificently & the film clicks along, scene to scene, like a Swiss time piece.

I think for someone who hasn't seen it, I'd just say that it's a film you kind of have to allow & give permission to yourself to enjoy. The cheese is certainly present throughout the film & you might feel dumb for getting into the romance but the film overall is such a feat that you shouldn't let that aspect ruin the entire film for you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by yt 

If any other movie had dialog that bad, you could write it off, but you can't do that with Titanic. 

Umm, nup, sorry. I can.

Man, Paxton is just totally lost in his scenes. The script is just flat out terrible, but most know how to play it, except Paxton. He's one half Hudson, the other half his character from Twister, and the two don't mix. He and Gloria Stuart are in a race for who can be more obvious in those moments.

Other than Zane, I'd say Winslet, Bernard Hill, and Kathy Bates do an admirable job with their parts, although Leo's Jack is just a little [i]too[/i] perfect. And it's the laziest romance that ever existed, but then, I've never bought into the Romeo & Juliet style of falling in love (especially when you take out Shakespeare's point of them both being goddamn fools). I do prefer my historical drama to be presented in a more straightforward manner: Apollo 13 and Thirteen Days are still riviting for me for that very reason. The situation these people are in is drama enough: yeah, grafting obvious elements for the four quadrant approach was good business sense, but fucking hell if it doesn't drag the film down for me. Avatar had the same bullshit.

I've often said that Titanic is 1/3 of a phenomenal film, and 2/3 of a terrible one. It's just a shame that the movie takes longer than the actual boat sinking did.

The thing about Cameron is, (and I've mentioned this before in other threads):his films are totally contrived, marketing quadrant, lowest common denominator film making: but he brings real heart to his characters, and his native intelligence shines through on the screen. Thus he can somehow avoid insulting our intelligence despite what we see and hear on the screen. If that ain't magic, I don't know what is.

I think Art Decade and Cylon nailed it.  The difference between Cameron and imitators is that Cameron is a populist storyteller.  His dialog can be great and it can be cringe-worthy, but he's a storyteller first and foremost.  I don't think he thinks of it as four-quadrant -- I don't think he made Titanic to pander.  I couldn't believe while I was watching it that it had me in its grip but it did -- and I watched it on ABC with commercials.  When people try to imitate his frame stories and various techniques, it is most often contrived and you can see the strings.  But it is magic, what he does.

This movie also made me ask "Whatever happened to James Cameron?" as well, but then I watched back his other stuff and noticed that, no he's pretty consistent in the areas of cornball excess, really, but it's more evenly spread and not as obvious when he has a driving action filled narrative. 

I had some suspicions ever since the Aliens directors cut, but Titanic congealed a whole lot of stuff about the man's style I don't think I was ready to admit to myself.  Aliens and Terminator 1/2 would be exactly like this, I venture, if the Aliens or Terminator didn't show up for two hours.  It's one of those 'no santa claus', "you can never go home again" sort of things.

It's also interesting to watch in a half distracted way.  Someone should watch it properly once, of course. But try sort of half watching it and see if the end doesn't result in you having  "C'mon Rose, C'mon!" "Let's Go Rose, Let's Go!" "Through here Rose!" "C'mon Rose, C'mon!" "Let's Go Rose, Let's Go!" "Through here Rose!""C'mon Rose, C'mon!" "Let's Go Rose, Let's Go!" "Through here Rose!""C'mon Rose, C'mon!" "Let's Go Rose, Let's Go!" "Through here Rose!""C'mon Rose, C'mon!" "Let's Go Rose, Let's Go!" "Through here Rose!"

...burned into your brain.  It's essentially all I remember about it with any clarity now.

And boy is Jack an expert on how big ships sink.  Hmmm. Steerage passenger, gets to see the bowels of the ship, kinda knows his way around too. Enough to maybe leave all the bulkhead doors open. An iceberg did it?  Has anyone ever seen this iceberg? Examined it for Titanic paint chips etc.  Oh,  icebergs melt.  How convenient.

(surely a joke made a million times, but oh well.)

The only think I seriously remember from this is that the only scene that affected me and the scene that took me right out of the movie again are in immediate succession. During the time when the ship's back half is suspended almost vertically above the water, there is scene where a mother holds her kids and the only thing she tells them is "It will be over soon." Still kind of gets me. Which is immediately followed by a guy falling down hitting all sorts of things. And I seem to remember that every collision was accompanied by comedy "thunks" like he was falling down some giant pachinko board.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Spider 

Somehow. Should I give it a whirl when Titanic 3D comes out in April? That awesome cast has me intrigued already.

Yes you too will soon be asking the eternal question of "why couldn't she move her selfish ass and let Jack sit on that wood for a while"?

It's well worth a watch, not just for the amazing action once the evil iceberg shows up, but for Billy Zane's note perfect Dick Dastardly  impersonation. His scenes after the boat crashes are cinematic gold I tell you.

The Afterlife scene at the end is beyond horrible however...  

Yes. You should: 

http://www.chud.com/community/t/127859/the-billy-zane-is-caledon-hockley-in-titanic-appreciation-thread

Plus, 90s acting sensation Jonathan Hyde! Victor Garber! Theoden! The madam from Unforgiven! Italian sterotype Danny Nucci! Mr. Fantastic! More stars in this film than there are in the heavens!

Ah, the Caledon Hockley thread. Good times. Good, times.

Know what youre getting into, the film will still surprise you. I'd say any and all complaints about the love story are cancelled out by the stretch of film from Jack getting cut out of his handcuffs onward. Genuinely breathtaking, harrowing stuff in there.

Before that? Mixed bag. Some stuff is fucking abysmal. Some stuff is goofily charming. Some of it works wonders. All of it bolstered by the sheer scale of the damn thing.

And Ill go on record, the nude drawing scene is perfect. And not just because it's naked Kate Winslet. Every once in a while, Cameron actually *gets* love and sexuality. That's this film's moment.

I unabashedly love this movie.  Saw it five times in the theater, with 5 packed houses, including an opening night show on 19 December 1997.  I was certainly not the target audience, a 23 year old kid when it was released.

In a previous forum, writing Titanic was like saying "Candyman" 5 times, except I would appear instead of Tony Todd.  So here we go.

I'll argue the script is not only NOT terrible, but actually incredibly well-structured and paced.  Certainly the dialogue is trite and often tin-eared (but that was commonly discussed at the time of release), but the actual narrative itself is quite good.  The thematic core of the film, the transformative power of love, is very effectively wrapped around a tour of the ship, which unfolds from the backgrounds of the two main characters.  Each of the theatrical audiences responded exactly as Cameron clearly wanted.  He was making it for the cheap seats.  It is to his credit he jammed in such potency.

The acting is a bit old-fashioned, but not bad.  Leo is given an extremely thankless role, but he at least brings charm to it.  The film belongs to Winslet (intentionally) and I'll readily admit this isn't nearly her best performance.  But she is certainly never worse than tolerable, and occasionally she is truly great.

I don't think Titanic was intended as a quadrant-buster...it just happened.  History buffs, teenaged girls, and audiences starved for spectacle were just enamored of the film.  It was the right film at the right time.  I also think it was absolutely intended for a big screen.  Earlier that year, the Special Edition of Star Wars was released.  The posters had the tagline: Three reasons why theaters are built.  Two years later, it became obvious that Star Wars is the reason plastic injection mold factories are built.  But Titanic absolutely screams for the big screen.  I'm actually pretty thrilled about the IMAX 3D rerelease for that very reason.  Just to see it on the big screen again, in all of it's maudlin, hokey brilliance.

William Goldman had a great piece about the film in some 1998 issue of Premiere.  He talked about how future generations would look back at 1997, amused by it's tawdry success, viewing it through the long prism of years and evolving mores.  But he also specifically mentioned the value of BEING THERE when it was released.

It is well worth a look, but I'd recommend you see it on the biggest screen you can, and be receptive to it's clunky charm.  When it's good, it's spectacular.

The song's only during the end credits, but the motif is recurring. Love the melody, and Horner's score is easy to appreciate as a great one, now that it's ceased to be fucking ubiquitous.

The Celine Dion track is what's going to play out of one of the horns announcing the apocalypse has come.

Horner wrote the score and then the song (I believe), so I think the melody became the song, not vice versa.  There are some nice piano and horn renditions during the film, but the song only plays over the end credits.

Just adding my vote that yeah, it's worth seeing for the spectacle. The script and dialogue really underscore Cameron's weaknesses as a filmmaker, but at the same time, I think in many ways TITANIC is a prime example of the value of seeing movies on the big screen versus at home, even with the advent of HD/large screen TVs. If you're able to forgive and/or just go with the hokey romance and archetypical characters, you'll get swept along.

I haven't seen it either. I thought since I was probably only going to see it once, so I thought I'd rather see the extended version when it came out in cinemas. Which I don't think it did in Australia.

The biggest flaw with the movie is the hokey dialogue. The script itself is very well put together otherwise (ever notice how closely Avatar mimics it? Right down to how the action kicks off the moment after the heroic couple finally hook up). Remember there's more to a script than just dialogue. As with a lot of Cameron's stuff you could turn off the sound and watch it as a silent movie and it would lose very little.

If you write this as 'offensive' for daring to tell a fictional story involving real life tragic events, then you're going to have to write off a lot of good films.

The film really suffers on a smaller screen, especially a conventional TV screen. And while I think someone who hasn't seen it yet can still find it a good theater experience, I don't think there's any substitute for having seen it when it opened (I saw it opening weekend). It had been a long while since a film had been a genuine phenomenon, and TITANIC definitely was one. Its effects have saturated the culture, and I don't think you can go in entirely fresh these days.

what is it with men and naked kate winslet, yes you should see it, it captures the sinking in spectaculare detail and reality in theaters it accualy makes you say over and over in your head  it's not true it's not true that's how real it looks  and DON'T COMPLAINE ABOUT THE ROMANCE!!!!!. it makes you realize how horrific it must have been to be on it  i mean your in the middle of the atlantic the only ship coming to help is 4 hour's away and is not gonna get there on time and the water is 38 degeres or 2 below zero  you have to take care of your sweetheart as well as yourselfe and you know you just know your gonna most likely die a very painful death. thats why cameron gave titanic a love story two people to capture us in heart and soul two young lovers to inoccent lovers wich fate has brought together as we get to know them we fall in love with them as they fall in love with eachother their growing love for one another is captivating  and because of this love we realize the one thing that even death can't destroy

their loving and devotional relationship serves as a emotional window into the past that prings history to life like never before, in gone with the wind what do you get scarlett slapping everyone in titanic at least the girl  love the guy.

I saw Titanic at the drive-in; now that's a big screen!

I'll never forget that night, because the combination of run-time and my automatic running lights* killed my car's battery and I had to get a jump start.

*parking brake kills 'em. I know that. Now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelM 

Just adding my vote that yeah, it's worth seeing for the spectacle.

I remember sitting in one of our nicer theaters waiting for (IIRC) Lost World to begin, and seeing the trailer for Titanic, and just being floored at how this decade-long (it seemed) industry joke was obviously putting every nickel and more up on the screen. Went opening weekend, enjoyed it, haven't seen it (or been tempted to) since.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Spider 

Somehow. Should I give it a whirl when Titanic 3D comes out in April? That awesome cast has me intrigued already.

I'd treat it like any other disaster film .  It's full of corny moments, but it's worth seeing for the spectacle.  Not much else to be said about it other than people whining about the movie or Cameron are overreacting (usually because of its popularity).  Perfectly acceptable way to spend a few bucks on an afternoon.  

Comparing the reaction to the two films it's AMAZING how much AVATAR got praised by nerdy nerds the world over, considering how much worse than TITANIC it is. As a film TITANIC wipes the floor with it. But of course, one has space marines and aliens and shit in it, so what you gonna do.

LOOK AT ME YOU FILTH

I was just reminded of this movie because I was talking to some students about movies they like and two of them mentioned "Titanic". One reason this made me happy was because most of the time these kids don't seem to be familiar with anything that came out earlier than 5 years ago, but also now that I think about the movie again, I remember certain things about it fondly.

I think part of why I disliked it for awhile was how overplayed and overhyped that fucking Celine Dion song was. It really taints the movie by association. It's not even the song itself so much as her performance. Thinking about it as a song a guy wrote about a girl and just looking at the lyrics, I can see some merit in it, but Dion's overwrought histrionics rob it of all possible resonance.

I saw the flick as a teen when it came out and really dug it. The thing has lost some of its 'magic' upon re-watch. Some of the dialog is cheesy and Dicaprio and Winslet are a little over-the-top in an annoying way at times (especially Dicaprio), but it still has its moments, and these flaws are not nearly enough to sink it completely (forgive the corny pun). And yes, it certainly benefits by comparison to the completely empty shit that is "Avatar", a movie with absolutely NOTHING going for it besides special effects.

I have to agree with everyone praising Zane and Warner for the greatness of their hammy villain performances. They alone ensure that I'll always find something to enjoy in the movie. I especially love Zane's "MY WIFE!!!!" rant when he flips the table and the moment when Winslet calls him an "unimaginable bastard". I can never get so cynical that a big sappy crowd-pleasing moment like that won't get to me at least a little bit.

This film. I was sixteen back then and working in the local cinema. For quite a few weeks we had Titanic playing in BOTH our theatres at the same time. The movie would first start in theatre 1. During the intermission my boss would put the second part of the film in the projector for theatre 1 and take the reel with the first part all the way through the building to put it in the projector for theatre number 2 (for some reason the projection rooms weren't adjacent to eachother) and start them both. Then when the movie had finished in theatre 1 he'd switch the reels again, lugging them all the way through the building, etc. It was crazy. And every damn showing sold out. For months.

In the end I think it was almost a year before we finally stopped showing Titanic...

I'm pretty sure that if you followed me around every waking moment of my life from the ages of 10 to 13, Titanic would be playing 98% of the time. That film was basically the barometer that every other film I viewed at the time was judged with.

Well that and Copycat.

I'm always puzzled when people praise Zane and Warner for being so over the top, but criticize DiCaprio and Winslet for basically doing the same thing.  The whole film is over the top.  It's a big hammy throwback, Gone with the Wind meets Irwin Allen, and I think part of the reason it was so successful was that it was so unembarrassed about what it was.  It wore its heart on both sleeves.

Over-the-top villainy is usually more fun to enjoy than over-the-top goody-goody.  Particularly among more jaded/cynical movie fans, I think.

Though, I never thought there was anything wrong with any of the performances in the film.  They all seemed suited for the spirit of the whole thing.

I think the only weak spot is Irish McIrish, the Irishman from Ireland. Even Danny Nucci's hilarious Goodfellas Pizza ad accent works in the context of the thing.

For Halloween that year, my daughter and one of her middle-school classmates went as drowned employees of the White Star Lines (waterlogged uniforms, corpse makeup, etc.).