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Girl With The Dragon Tattoo Post-Release Discussion - Page 5

post #201 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by S.D. Bob Plissken View Post

"Oh look kids, Big Ben!  Parliament!"

 

"Oh look kids, Big Ben!  Parliament!"

 

"Oh look kids, Big Ben!  Parliament!"

 

 

I'm not sure whether to be intrigued or saddened by the fact that this thread is four pages long and at least three of them discuss nothing but the anal rape sequence.


Interesting fun fact that I think most people don't know, "Big Ben" is actually the bell of the clock, while what most people call and think is "Big Ben" is actually St Stephen's Tower.

 

Well ... it was something different to the other three pages at least and Bob did open the door ...

post #202 of 220

 

 

@Shan

Quote:
What's the opinion of people who can comment? Who do you think is better? Rapace or Mara? 

 

Mara for me. I think I preferred the way Rapace's Lisbeth was written but the way Mara acted. But this is only for Dragon Tattoo. The Swedish films take a pretty pronounced nose-dive afterwards. Which is the main reason I want Fincher to come back for the next two.

post #203 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelios View Post

 

 

@Shan

 

Mara for me. I think I preferred the way Rapace's Lisbeth was written but the way Mara acted. But this is only for Dragon Tattoo. The Swedish films take a pretty pronounced nose-dive afterwards. Which is the main reason I want Fincher to come back for the next two.


I bought a set of all of the movies in their original extended format (a steal at about $26) and I liked how the first half of The Girl Who Played With Fire used the set up from Dragon Tattoo (and especially the bits that had nothing to do with the Harriet Vanger case, I think if you only ever see Tattoo a lot of that material could otherwise seem redundant) and the fight in the warehouse was great.

 

But the second half of Fire, that just dragged on and on and on. It was *so* slow and boring. 

 

Also, I could accept the fighting prowess (not an impossible stretch) and magical hacker abilities (they didn't dwell on it long enough for me to think about it too much) of Salander but my brain finally checked out with that scene near the end, there was no way she was ever getting out of you know where; I'm sorry, there was no way she was surviving that even if there was no ballistic contribution to her predicament, let alone even getting out of there under her own steam. That just passed into the realm of the irredeemably ridiculous right there.

 

I haven't seen Hornet yet but it's not looking good from what I'm hearing, is it?

post #204 of 220

It's a bit better than the preposterous second half of Fire but I don't think I'd bother with it. Of course you already have it, so you might as well watch it.

post #205 of 220

I don't know if this movie's been mentioned in this thread (it seems like it would've been), but Lucky McKee's The Woman is a pretty comparable film both in its goals and in the reaction it got from some folks. McKee's movie is more of a satire and even a broad comedy/horror flick than a straight drama like GWTDT -- but there's a debate to be had about how GWTDT is aiming to portray these things with a dimension of realism, whereas The Woman takes its tone into the realms of surreal absurdity and ultraviolence in order to make the same point. Not sure which is "better," although I think I prefer Tattoo and in the end find it more interesting.

post #206 of 220

I would actually say that, to me, "Haywire" was the natural corrective.

post #207 of 220

I dunno about that. The feminist themes in Haywire feel mostly coincidental. Soderbergh's said as much when pressed -- along the lines of "huh? okay, I guess." Not that his supposed intent should prevent any readings you want to make, but still.

post #208 of 220

Soderbergh is full of shit. smile.gif

post #209 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelios View Post

 

 

@Shan

 

Mara for me. I think I preferred the way Rapace's Lisbeth was written but the way Mara acted. But this is only for Dragon Tattoo. The Swedish films take a pretty pronounced nose-dive afterwards. Which is the main reason I want Fincher to come back for the next two.

 

100% agreed.  I couldn't have said it better myself.
 

 

post #210 of 220

 

 

Quote: JMulder

I dunno about that. The feminist themes in Haywire feel mostly coincidental. Soderbergh's said as much when pressed -- along the lines of "huh? okay, I guess." Not that his supposed intent should prevent any readings you want to make, but still.

 

 

Soderbergh can say what he wants, but Haywire strikes me as far more ideal depiction of a feminist heroine than The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo.

 

But you know I've probably made the "LARSSON HAD A BASIC LACK OF UNDERSTANDING REGARDING FEMINISM" spiel far too many times.

post #211 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shloggs View Post

I love Fincher's work as a director and thought the performances were fine.  There was some very nice camerawork going on, it had a great chilly look to it and Reznor's score was intermittently effective.

 

That having been said, as someone who has never read the books, I am shocked that this is what all the hubbub was about.  Grotesque, obvious one note characters (both heroes and villains), bullshit sexual politics and Nazi's are bad?  Amazing.  It figures that my parents (and seemingly the rest of repressed WASP middle America) who are devoted CSI and Law & Order fans would eat this tripe up.  They should all have to sit down and watch Irreversible so as to get a little shading and ambiguity to season their coveted anal rape scenes.  

 

I have just come to a point in my life where I have to admit I can't stand watching rape.  I don't want to see it in any movie anymore.  Just as some people swear off things like Saw or Hostel or The Passion of the Christ cause they find torture distasteful.  I knew the film would feature sexual assault as a component of its "story", but soldiered onward cause I am a cinephile and am compelled to see every Fincher film in the theater.  Rape is bad and cheap enough as a plot device to get a reaction out of an audience as it is, but to so unnecessarily shoehorn it in as this film does is unforgivable. 

 

I guess I don't understand the Swedish guardian system and as previously stated, haven't read the books, so I can't comprehend why a grown woman would need to put herself into this situation for money.  Let alone a grown woman who is employed by an extremely wealthy family doing illegal investigatory work.  A grown woman who apparently can quite easily disguise her identity, manufacture passports and go on a globetrotting trek, emptying the bank account of an industry titan while ensuring he spends the rest of his life in jail.  Seems to me a grown woman who does all these incredible things could easily disappear and get one over on an oafish bureaucrat forcing her to give him handies for McDonalds and smokes money.  Except this isn't a grown woman, it's a "girl with a dragon tattoo".  A masturbatory fantasy dreamt up by pseudo-feminist journalist. 

 

A girl who is easily victimized, yet capable of totally badass revenge.  This gives the author the ability to exploit her sexually, but she still mysteriously is very eager to hop in the sack with a crusader version of his milquetoast self.  This isn't a real character, it's a narrative device that morphs into whatever the author needs it to be to justify whatever he wants in any particular scene, not unlike the ludicrous, pointless monster of Abrams execrable Super-8.  It's a cheap male fantasy and so transparently a young girl fetish of Larsson's that the notion of Lisbeth Salander as some sort of feminist icon is despicable.  Unless of course women truly feel the best way to battle institutionalized misogyny is to become even more violent sexual predators than their male counterparts, a game of atrocity escalation I sincerely doubt would benefit any participant or onlooker.

 

On top of that grody quagmire is the fact that about an hour and a half in, I realized I didn't even know who the suspects were.  I mean, of course I knew it would be Skarsgaard, because he's a known heavy and he was obviously trying to throw off Daniel Craig by being the only pleasant family member.  Whatever mystery and intrigue the book had is lost in translation as the film becomes an indecipherable blur of looking through files and photos and placing push pins on maps.  Who cares?  And the Wennerstrom nonsense that bookends the film couldn't have been more apropos of nothing or of less interest to anyone.  If we don't know why it started, we sure as shit don't care how it ends. 

 

This seems to me a catastrophic step backwards for Fincher.  A calculated ploy to avenge his admittedly reprehensible Oscar snubs of the past few years by rubbing the Academy's noses in screeners full of ugly, leaden airport layover garbage while he reaps box office success.  Except it doesn't seem to be doing well opening weekend, so hopefully, a la Green Lantern, its postulated sequels will be given lip service, but never materialize and Fincher will be freed up to move on to something worthy of his time and considerable talent.


Having just seen the film, this post pretty much sums up my feelings about it.  Except the part about the rape...I thought the rape/revenge rape was the most interesting thing in the movie.  That's not a compliment.  It's the only time I sat up and paid attention.  

 

A surprisingly limp and empty exercise this was despite excellent acting, cinematography, music and pacing.  Everything works except what NEEDS to work the most...the story.

 

post #212 of 220

I loathed this film. Maybe Fincher's worst. At least Benjamin Button didn't make me want to take a long shower afterwards.

post #213 of 220

I wish I could have a reaction that was more than dismissal, I really do. Disgust, anger, shock, or any other reaction Larsson and the various filmmakers intended with these works would at least be powerful emotions to tug at me with, but I never felt any of that at all. The novels are basically garbage. and the films outside of the lead actresses attempting to be interesting* just feel cold in the worst way possible.

 

I don't think my reaction to Salander's rape should be "of course this had to happen! How else is the writer going to set up a revenge sequence that's mostly cathartic for him?" But that's basically all the emotion that the work can illict from me. Annoyance.

 

 

*And I honestly wonder if part of this is because I find the LOOK of Salander appealing as opposed to the way the actresses inhabit her. She's punky, slinky, and looks striking, but she's practically fucking Batwoman as opposed to any realistic glance at a broken woman.

post #214 of 220

 


Quote:
I wish I could have a reaction that was more than dismissal, I really do. Disgust, anger, shock, or any other reaction Larsson and the various filmmakers intended with these works would at least be powerful emotions to tug at me with, but I never felt any of that at all. The novels are basically garbage. and the films outside of the lead actresses attempting to be interesting* just feel cold in the worst way possible.

I never felt shock or anger during the film, as it was all so dull, simultaneously boring and grimy. I didn't care about any of the characters, with Salander standing out primarily because of her look and her computer skills.

 

I haven't read the books, but all of their charms are apparently on the page, because NONE of it came through on screen.

post #215 of 220

The books are a dozen times less charming.

post #216 of 220

Yes, late to the party.  I'm just now starting with the Fincher movie.  Along with the recommendation from my parents that the books, and the English-language movie that they saw at the theater, are "really really good".  This may have been covered before, but:

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

After the anal rape scene.

 

 

What kind of people are my parents??  It's making my mind explode that my parents are comfortable with seeing this sort of thing depicted.  Bleah.  My parents who objected to the "foul language" in Seven.

post #217 of 220

The kind of people that have kept CSI, Law & Order: Special Victims Unit, Law & Order: Criminal Intent, etc. on the airs for years on end?  The kind of people who read James Patterson's monthly releases?  THAT'S the kind of general audience that has no problem watching sequences like that.  Do your parents fall under that category?

 

A lot has happened since Seven.  It's influence was certainly felt on film, but it had a far stronger affect on TV.  Think about what they were allowed to get by with on cop and legal shows in the 90s.  Now think about what they can get away with NOW.  I can flip through the channels at any time of day and watch a re-run of a popular show with content gruesome enough that it would have completely been at home in a slasher film during the 80s.  No exaggeration.  That's a fact.

 

Fincher has had a large influence on film, but even more of one on televised programming.  Almost everything we see on TV now in terms of law enforcement shows can be traced right back to Seven (and The Silence of the Lambs).

post #218 of 220

I was honestly surprised how uninvolving this movie was.  I mean, Fincher made something as potentially airless as The Social Network dynamic, and yet this thing just went on and on.  The editing within individual scenes was fine, but in a larger sense, the story had very little flow to it.  

 

 

I felt like the movie really lost something when it sidelined Plummer, because he was at the heart of the case and his need to have it solved was really the only thing that got me invested in it.  There's also a moment towards the beginning where he tells Mikael that he will get to know his family all too well, which made me anticipate a bunch of wonderfully loathsome people I'd love to hate.  But, really, his family barely registered.  The only guy who did was Skarsgard, and in the end it almost seemed like he turned out to be a villain because, well, who else could be?
 
Although I found the setup of the mystery interesting, the investigation, the procedural aspect just sort of happens, rather than engages. In the end, I couldn't have cared less what made Martin tick. Which is perhaps a good thing because the movie basically just glosses over the family's violent legacy (instead, the film just seems to rely on using the word "Nazi" a lot), and, by extension, whatever misogyny and xenophobia exists in modern Sweden.  There are times the movie feels more like a beautifully shot, occasionally suspenseful cologne commercial rather than a movie about much of anything.
 
Mara is the best thing about the movie.  And although the character is indeed part wish fulfillment, I think Fincher manages to undercut that a bit with how he shoots her.  He appears to be very aware of just how much of an iconic figure (of the moment, at least) Lisbeth has become, and he has a lot of fun with the way she is presented, which recalls cultural entities worshiped and fetishized: from rock stars, to aliens, to religious icons.  That she's rather empty on the page is kind of irrelevant, because people imbue her with their own meanings.
 
post #219 of 220

I kinda checked out after Mikael flipped Lisbeth over during their sex scene.

 

Fincher may have had a hard on for Rooney, but he didn't understand Salander at all.

 

The sex scene in the original was perfect, and right on.

 

 

post #220 of 220

Nifty marketing hook for the dvd release.  

 

DragonTattooDVD__120323211959-275x138.jpg

 

Made to look like a pirated disc.  

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