Best and Worst Evil Plans in Movies

Good thread idea!

The best plan?

No contest.

Nakatomi Plaza is the absolute gold standard. Do I really need to go into why? Simon Gruber's New York City shell game in which all if the city's police were diverted to numerous "terrorist attacks" was pretty slick too.

Well, as much as I enjoy the film the aliens in Signs were somewhat guilty of shoddy planning. I mean, if water's lethal to you it kind of makes sense to skip over the planet that's 80% covered with the shit. I half-imagine Robert Stack piping up on the mothership with "No, that'll be exactly what they're expecting us to do..."

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Originally Posted by Workyticket 

Well, as much as I enjoy the film the aliens in Signs were somewhat guilty of shoddy planning. I mean, if water's lethal to you it kind of makes sense to skip over the planet that's 80% covered with the shit. I half-imagine Robert Stack piping up on the mothership with "No, that'll be exactly what they're expecting us to do..."

I still haven't worked out how aliens who can travel across interstellar space and have their vehicles invisible to radar somehow can't get out of a room when they're locked in it either.

I'm still trying to figure out what the final endgame of Jonathan Pryce in "Tomorrow Never Dies" was. He wants to take over all media? Seems pretty lame in comparison to nuclear warheads, satellite lasers, contaminating Fort Knox, and wiping out all human life on Earth with nerve gas.

Hmm...I think he was trying to start WWIII in order to sell newspapers to the survivors. That's a plan so stupid, it's gotta work!

I like contrasting Lex Luthor's plan from the first Superman movie -- causing an earthquake in order to make a killing in real estate -- to his plan in Superman Returns, which seemed to be, um, creating an island or something to make, well, stuff happen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Workyticket 

Well, as much as I enjoy the film the aliens in Signs were somewhat guilty of shoddy planning. I mean, if water's lethal to you it kind of makes sense to skip over the planet that's 80% covered with the shit. I half-imagine Robert Stack piping up on the mothership with "No, that'll be exactly what they're expecting us to do..."

To be fair, the aliens are supposedly fucked up by the amoebas in the water that the little girl keeps talking about rather than the water itself. Otherwise they would have burned up in the mist and dew around the corn etc. It's a play on the standard War of the Worlds concept. It's still a massively stupid conceit either way you cut it.

Decent Plan:

Moriarty's plan in Downey's first Sherlock Holmes movie turned out to be pretty smart. He was the only guy who realized how world-changing a "simple" radio remote control device was in the Victorian age. Even the guy who invented it didn't realize what he had in his hand and just used it to pretend to be a real life evil magician or some shit.

Re: ALIEN PLANS/WATER

The aliens in BATTLE LA had a pretty terrifying plan. They land, and immediately start stealing away our water without offering a word of explanation. If they'd succeeded, the planet would have been ruined, the biosphere destroyed. Within a matter of weeks every living thing on the planet would have been dead, if not from thirst, than from choking dust storms and radiation, as our atmosphere would likely have burned off

Water: it makes more sense for aliens to be after it than it does for them to covet gold. That's all I'll say

PS Brad Pitt had a top notch plan in 12M. Noble goals coming together with dastardly means, to create a plan so perfectly crafted that even the forces of time travel were unable to prevent it's ultimate success

Another dumb plan:  the aliens in Cowboys and Aliens.  It actually starts off smart, basically digging up all the gold right out from under the unsuspecting humans.  Except they then do everything they can to draw attention to themselves.  Like have half their spaceship sticking up out of the ground.  Flying their ships all over the place in plain sight.  Kidnapping humans for no good reason.  It's like standing on a hill waving a flag and shouting, "I'M BEING AS QUIET AS POSSIBLE!"

Ozymandias all the way.   

Runner up: John Doe

Judge Doom in Who Framed Roger Rabbit. Good thing he was stopped and freeways were never invented.

Lee Woo Jin in OLDBOY.

Best.  And oh-so EVIL !!!!

The Red Lectroids nefarious treatment of both Orson Welles and a poor, misguided Italian scientist was EVIL, PURE AND SIMPLE FROM THE EIGHTH DIMENSION!!

Good evil plan: The French Connection II

Fernando Rey's French drug kingpin kidnaps Popeye Doyle & forcibly injects him repeatedly with smack over the course of several days, turning the cop into a heroin addict.

Bad evil plan: On Her Majesty's Secret Service

Blofeld brainwashes a cadre of international supermodels to unwittingly render all life infertile unless the world gives him amnesty for his past crimes. Ol' Ernsty deserves a massive sarcastic slow clap for that one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Dickson 

I like contrasting Lex Luthor's plan from the first Superman movie -- causing an earthquake in order to make a killing in real estate -- to his plan in Superman Returns, which seemed to be, um, creating an island or something to make, well, stuff happen.

Thematically, the dichotomy between Superman and Lex in Superman Returns is that Superman's past is gone, and he fears he may leave no legacy. He's an orphan immigrant. Lex, meanwhile, already belongs to a legacy (dude's a millionaire, AND a human) and he's fucked it up, so he's borrowed from others. He wed that rich widow who died, immorally earning her inheritance (the two dogs incestuously licking each other is a sick visual cue), and now he's borrowed chunks of Superman's home planet to create an artificial legacy, using the last shards of Superman's life to bring death (and eventually fortune, as Lex loves real estate). He even crudely fashions a bit of Krypton to act as a prison shank, stabbing Superman with one of the very last bits of what's left of his lineage.

Story-wise, it's pretty weak. Thematically, it makes perfect sense. I feel like you can judge the movie on a whole the same way.

Harry Lime had a slick, totally bastardly operation running in The Third Man. Selling bad morphine to hospitals? Hell, just improving culture in the long run.

Oop, spoilers, I guess. Bleh, too late.

Goldfinger, people, Goldfinger!

And Moonraker! Who wouldn't want to found an army of Supermodels and then (ahem) "take care" of all the schlubs in the world, thus creating a virdent, peaceful planet!

Richard Nixon, John Mitchell, Harold Haldemann etc:

Hire complete bunch of aging nincompoops to break into Democratic party headquarters and plant listening devices/take pictures etc, (the kind of guys who leave a trail like the proverbial bleeding Mammoth, don't even scope the place out properly and communicate over readily interceptable radio frequencies), pay them out of committee to re-elect money and hope no one notices.

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Originally Posted by Cylon Baby 

Goldfinger, people, Goldfinger!

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

Gas everyone at Ft Knox to death, plant and explode a nuclear bomb to irradiate all the Gold stored there, thus creating a shortage and driving up the price of Gold worldwide! Of course this all assumes Goldfinger can do all this with no one ever catching on.

 

This is much better than the plan in the novel Goldfinger, which is literally stealing all the Gold via choo choo train!

 

 

Sounds like DANGER DIABOLIC

Nero's plan in Star Trek (2009) is a little limp: destroy all the planets that are apart of the Federation so that Romulus will be able to autonomously decide how to handle a supernova over a hundred years in the future? Um...

Just wanted to give a shout out to Adrian Viedt's master plan in WATCHMEN, already noted for excellence by other Chewers. It is my favorite fictional plan of all time, so perfect in it's conception that even a being who can perceive time nonlinearly is unable to identify a single flaw, hinge or loop upon which to hang a doubt as to the correctness of Viedt's action

Or rather, I'd love to give a shout out to this plan, except for the fact it was utterly ruined in the WATCHMEN film because of Snyder's inane plot deviations from Moore's source

Faking first contact with an evil all powerful life form, so that humanity for the first time in history bands together as one towards a common goal? Alexander himself would praise the genius of such planning

Faking a scenario where America's living super weapon goes rogue and blows up Moscow? How does that not lead to increased tensions and hatred two months down the line? It delays doomsday, while also making it inevitable. It doesn't matter if New York got blown up too: in the aftermath of such devastation, few would bother to understand that Manhattan saw himself as post human. Billions would assume it was an American plot, or at the very least, America's fault

The original final solution to war would create a psychological revolution among the people of earth, and the plan stood a good chance of stopping the doomsday clock for good

In Snyder's version, I'm not at all convinced there isn't a coup two weeks later in the Kremlin, with the missles flying shortly thereafter

So I list the WATCHMEN MOVIE "evil" plan as the dumbest in film history, achieving the exact opposite of it's stated goal, dooming earth in the process

I thought the movie Ozymandias's plan was leaps and above the comic book.  The alien invasion of giant octopi so that the world unites around it?  Replacing a godless world with an Old Testament Jehovah who is vengeful and will smite if we don't get along is a much better way to make the world behave.

Rule by fear of the Other works, but normally an Other can be conquered. Rule by fear of God, and you have an ever looming, omnipresent, omnipotent power that cannot be defeated. Veidt's plan is world peace, the means be damned. I also think that Veidt knows that Dr. Manhattan can see that Veidt's plan will work and Dr. Manhattan doesn't even have to stay to accomplish it. The mere idea of his blue dangle hovering over the world was enough.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrTyres 

I thought the movie Ozymandias's plan was leaps and above the comic book.  The alien invasion of giant octopi so that the world unites around it?  Replacing a godless world with an Old Testament Jehovah who is vengeful and will smite if we don't get along is a much better way to make the world behave.

 

Rule by fear of the Other works, but normally an Other can be conquered. Rule by fear of God, and you have an ever looming, omnipresent, omnipotent power that cannot be defeated. Veidt's plan is world peace, the means be damned. I also think that Veidt knows that Dr. Manhattan can see that Veidt's plan will work and Dr. Manhattan doesn't even have to stay to acomplish it. The mere idea of his blue dangle hovering over the world was enough.

The alien was incomprehensible. What was it? Were there more? We all better work together just in case!

The threat of some vengeful American super weapon is a terrible cudgel to wield, and would not eliminate war at all. Viedt wanted to free people, not enslave them to some sort of imaginary cosmic santa claus (always on the lookout for the naughty)

And again, there is no way it would have worked in any case - there would have been war over Manhattan's crimes

Th audacity of the original space being plan is stunning. The Snyder plan is simply unworkable, and shows his complete misuderstanding of the source material

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven 

Nero's plan in Star Trek (2009) is a little limp: destroy all the planets that are apart of the Federation so that Romulus will be able to autonomously decide how to handle a supernova over a hundred years in the future? Um...

I don't think Nero cared about any of that.  He just wanted the universe to feel the pain he already suffered.

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Originally Posted by Princess Kate 

The Snyder plan is simply unworkable, and shows his complete understanding of the source material

I knew you were a Snyder acolyte!

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Originally Posted by mcnooj82 

I knew you were a Snyder acolyte!

 

Autocorrect auto changed the meaning of my sentence, FYI

FIX IT!

EDIT: Better!

For probably the only time, I agree with Kate.  Sort of.

She's missed the point that the faked alien squid was at best a stopgap solution that we see start to crumble within hours of its implementation (the media is already rationalizing it as a one in a million accident at the research lab in Manhattan and not a deliberate invasion by an intelligent being, while Veidt is off meditating), that it's an indictment of the egoism of so called 'Super Heroes' in thinking that an individual can know what's better for humanity than humanity as a whole, and worse, would make that choice for them, and that in the book the nuclear war wasn't going to happen (Nixon is fighting the suggestions for a first strike, and the Soviets aren't going to launch nukes to cover a land invasion.  Some people say that the book makes a solid case for why nuclear war was inevitable, but it's essentially the same case that real people were making in the 50's and 60's, just with added Dr. Manhattan).  The movie's plan is worse because it implies that, but for Rorschach's Journal, it is a permanent solution, and that Veidt was justified in murdering millions of people.

Kate, you keep mentioning the American superweapon, but doesn't Veidt blow the hell out of multiple cities? Like NY, Washington, London, in the movie. The idea that the USSR would start a war when both sides get devestated seems strange to me. Unless they think that Richard "I'm so awesome, let's repeal the 22nd Amendment and vote me in for 4 terms" Nixon blew his own capital up to hide his aggression, which is even more strange to me.

I think the point in the movie isn't that Veidt is justified, but, as voiced by Rorschach, that what gives him the right to make that decision for everyone else, even if he is right.  Also, I think the movie falls into your same outpoint, Fafhrd. Rorschach's journal is going to destroy what Veidt planned and exposes the superhero ego in the same way.

Best: INSIDE MAN.  It may not be 'evil' per se, but it is rather brilliantly planned and executed.

Worst:

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In all seriousness, the worst evil plan that I can think of off of the top of my head is from the remake of ROLLERBALL.  I'll create an ultraviolent sport and earn money with huge ratings!!!!  Then I'll secure a European cable deal!!!!  YES!!!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcnooj82 

I don't think Nero cared about any of that.  He just wanted the universe to feel the pain he already suffered.

 

Still a dumb plan. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrTyres 
Also, I think the movie falls into your same outpoint, Fafhrd. Rorschach's journal is going to destroy what Veidt planned and exposes the superhero ego in the same way.

In the movie Rorschach's Journal is the only thing that will bring pressure to move back to the old status quo, and only a handful of cranks are likely to believe it.  In the book you can see things going back that way before the New Statesman even re-opens, because they realize almost immediately that the squid monsters don't represent an ever present threat.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven 

Still a dumb plan. 

Waiting 25 years for Old Spock to pop out of the wormhole is NOT DUMB!!! 

To be fair, he was in Klingon jail most of that time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fafhrd 

For probably the only time, I agree with Kate.  Sort of.

 

She's missed the point that the faked alien squid was at best a stopgap solution that we see start to crumble within hours of its implementation (the media is already rationalizing it as a one in a million accident at the research lab in Manhattan and not a deliberate invasion by an intelligent being, while Veidt is off meditating), that it's an indictment of the egoism of so called 'Super Heroes' in thinking that an individual can know what's better for humanity than humanity as a whole, and worse, would make that choice for them, and that in the book the nuclear war wasn't going to happen (Nixon is fighting the suggestions for a first strike, and the Soviets aren't going to launch nukes to cover a land invasion.  Some people say that the book makes a solid case for why nuclear war was inevitable, but it's essentially the same case that real people were making in the 50's and 60's, just with added Dr. Manhattan).  The movie's plan is worse because it implies that, but for Rorschach's Journal, it is a permanent solution, and that Veidt was justified in murdering millions of people.

 

 

I don't know, there's that entire essay after one of the issues that seems to exist primarily to make the case that Manhattan had, despite shifting things drastically in America's favor tactically, had actually made armageddon more likely by making them more desperate. 

Which makes the moral question at hand, as presented by the movie, much more interesting... All things being equal and assuming Ozy's plan works, what are the moral implications of such a "victory" over humanity's own nature by the deliberate, judgmental action of a single individual?

The movie isn't perfect, but Snyder and co. had an excellent understanding of the end mechanisms, and their modifications are interesting and at least equally fascinating.
 

It's also perfectly reasonable to say that where Moore was appropriating pulpy comic book imagery (the giant, ultra-sci-fi squid) and elevating it by use in a provocative literary construct, Snyder was doing something similar by appropriating pulpy blockbuster disaster imagery into that same provocative literary construct. It also fits in with other subtle, specifically film-related digs, like some of the the Schumacheresque costumes.

Yep, that was my reading of the filmmakers' intent as well. This makes Snyder's mishandling of the Dan/Laurie epilogue that much more frustrating. In the movie, we see Drieberg reinvigorated & clearly intent on continuing on as Nite-Owl. In the comic, Drieberg fucking grows up & let's go of his adolescent fantasy once & for all.

There's so much to be impressed by with the adaptation, it's a shame that those final few minutes completely do away with the goodwill earned by the film's elegant & thematically sound solution to the "squid problem".

My Disney fanboyism is showing, but here goes: Ratigan's plan in The Great Mouse Detective is rather ingenious. He replaces the Queen with a robot double in order to declare himself king of Mousedom. This is actually clever (if ludicrous), and that he almost succeeds is a testament to that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fafhrd 

For probably the only time, I agree with Kate.  Sort of.

 

She's missed the point that the faked alien squid was at best a stopgap solution that we see start to crumble within hours of its implementation (the media is already rationalizing it as a one in a million accident at the research lab in Manhattan and not a deliberate invasion by an intelligent being, while Veidt is off meditating), that it's an indictment of the egoism of so called 'Super Heroes' in thinking that an individual can know what's better for humanity than humanity as a whole, and worse, would make that choice for them, and that in the book the nuclear war wasn't going to happen (Nixon is fighting the suggestions for a first strike, and the Soviets aren't going to launch nukes to cover a land invasion.  Some people say that the book makes a solid case for why nuclear war was inevitable, but it's essentially the same case that real people were making in the 50's and 60's, just with added Dr. Manhattan).  The movie's plan is worse because it implies that, but for Rorschach's Journal, it is a permanent solution, and that Veidt was justified in murdering millions of people.

 

 

I always assumed the new york lab excuse was Viedt's intentional cover. It was an accident that brought the psychic squid there, people will think, but do the squids now know of earth? Will they send more to search for their comrade? It leaves open so many unanswered questions and potential threats that humanity would be forced to band together to ready themselves for whatever came next

Do you not think Viedt knew of the lab? Do you think centered his attack near it by random chance?

As for nuclear war not happening? I don't buy it. We've almost been plunged into nuclear war because of accidents a few times here in the real world, and in WATCHMEN, even if it didn't happen that night (which I believe it would have), the pieces were all still in place for it to happen later. What happens when a DEAD ZONE style Martin Sheen president gets elected? The only way to break the cycle of war was to open humanity's mind to the idea that they were not alone, and were united by their common bonds as humans
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrTyres 

Kate, you keep mentioning the American superweapon, but doesn't Veidt blow the hell out of multiple cities? Like NY, Washington, London, in the movie. The idea that the USSR would start a war when both sides get devestated seems strange to me. Unless they think that Richard "I'm so awesome, let's repeal the 22nd Amendment and vote me in for 4 terms" Nixon blew his own capital up to hide his aggression, which is even more strange to me.

 

 

I think the point in the movie isn't that Veidt is justified, but, as voiced by Rorschach, that what gives him the right to make that decision for everyone else, even if he is right.  Also, I think the movie falls into your same outpoint, Fafhrd. Rorschach's journal is going to destroy what Veidt planned and exposes the superhero ego in the same way.

Again, I explained that no one would believe it wasn't an American trick, or at least America's fault. If you're a russian military commander and moscow explodes because of an American superweapon, you may not even know if the US got hit too before you start launching missles. If you read about launch protocols in the cold war, in the situation we see in the film it's entirely likely that the missles would have flown as soon as the credits roll. And again, the fear and recrimination in the wake of the incident would topple governments and destabalize the world
 

And no one would take Rorschach's journal seriously

And it doesn't matter that Viedt didn't have the "right" to make the decision - he made it anyway, that is his genius

Would the better option have been to let the world destroy itself? Is that somehow the morally pure approach? I don't buy it
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fafhrd 

In the movie Rorschach's Journal is the only thing that will bring pressure to move back to the old status quo, and only a handful of cranks are likely to believe it.  In the book you can see things going back that way before the New Statesman even re-opens, because they realize almost immediately that the squid monsters don't represent an ever present threat.

No one realizes any such thing about the squid monsters. No one knows how many more may be out there, if they now know about earth, ETC

the serial killer's plan in AntiBodies to get the head cop to kill his own son is pretty twisted, and almost works.

Bad: Jeff Bridges and his stupidity in not throwing that typewriter away in Jagged Edge. Rookie mistake, Dude...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Princess Kate 

 

I always assumed the new york lab excuse was Viedt's intentional cover. It was an accident that brought the psychic squid there, people will think, but do the squids now know of earth? Will they send more to search for their comrade? It leaves open so many unanswered questions and potential threats that humanity would be forced to band together to ready themselves for whatever came next

Again, I explained that no one would believe it wasn't an American trick, or at least America's fault. If you're a russian military commander and moscow explodes because of an American superweapon, you may not even know if the US got hit too before you start launching missles. If you read about launch protocols in the cold war, in the situation we see in the film it's entirely likely that the missles would have flown as soon as the credits roll. And again, the fear and recrimination in the wake of the incident would topple governments and destabalize the world
 

1) The problem with the squid plan as you present (assuming everyone is as paranoid and venal as you make out) is that it would require further staged "attacks" by the squiddies every now and then in order to stop people from deciding that if you can't kill the ones you want, you should kill the ones you're with.

2)  In the film, Veidt fakes a worldwide message from Manhattan laying out what he's doing and why.  It's not like Moscow would just explode without explanation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schwartz 

2)  In the film, Veidt fakes a worldwide message from Manhattan laying out what he's doing and why.  It's not like Moscow would just explode without explanation.

No he doesn't.  That was in an early script, but it was never in the film (at least not the theatrical cut).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fafhrd 

In the movie Rorschach's Journal is the only thing that will bring pressure to move back to the old status quo, and only a handful of cranks are likely to believe it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Princess Kate 

 

And no one would take Rorschach's journal seriously

And everyone believes that Lee Harvey Oswald was a lone gunman, we did land on the moon, Reagan was running the presidency, OJ didn't kill his wife, the US government didn't know that 9/11 was going to happen, and Barack Obama was born in Hawai'i. Those disagreeable cranks who thought otherwise never influenced more than the Weekly World News.

Right. :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrTyres 

 

 

 

And everyone believes that Lee Harvey Oswald was a lone gunman, we did land on the moon, Reagan was running the presidency, OJ didn't kill his wife, the US government didn't know that 9/11 was going to happen, and Barack Obama was born in Hawai'i. Those disagreeable cranks who thought otherwise never influenced more than the Weekly World News.

 

 

 

Right. :D

Rorschach's journal is not *evidence*

It's a story that cannot be confirmed in any way. There is evidence against the lone gunman idea

The people who believe Obama is not an American do not and will never get Obama kicked out of office, just like no one who claims the horrible space being was actually Adrian Viedt's crazy idea will get people to take them seriously

But disbelieving Obama's birth certificate tied up politics for months. It made for cute posters like this

,

but other than that it got in the way. Rumors of LBJ masterminding the assassination was one of the many things that bogged him politically and made the American people less likely to trust him as the decade started getting ugly. We spent years trying to get Bush protesters off the fact that he didn't plan 9/11 and should be protested for other dumbass decisions he actually made.

My point is that just the rumor of it not being true is enough to drive people and populations to chip away at the new changes that Veidt imagines. He won't create the unified peaceful world because a small undercurrent is always going to believe it was brought about through shady means. That uneasiness is always going be pervasive.

I agree that like Manhattan points out, nothing ever ends, and that in all likelihood on a long enough timeline the dooms day cock may start up again - however Viedt's plan is truely innovative and forward thinking, just like Alexander with the gordian knot. Viedt's plan and not Snyder's stands the best chance of ending war - at least for a very long time - and it's the best plan by a large margin

Because if you give humanity enough breathing room, perhaps there will be unseen technological developments that help make further conflict even less likely (as Viedt does discuss in the film with his search for new energy sources)

IMHO the very fact that in Watchmen world Viedt was able to pull off his plan (teleporting, telekenisis, ETC) says that he had a whole host of ideas ready to roll out to help the world start off on a better footing in the new post squid era