"Great" actors that just aren't very good

Dare I say it: Cary Grant.

That not to say he's not brilliant, but he was never a good "Actor".

Richard Gerbil Gere.

Tom Hanks

Re: Johnny Depp

You've just said what I've been thinking for years. Even though he created it, Jack Sparrow is essentially an amalgamate impression, as is Raoul Duke. Entertaining to be sure, but shallow nonetheless. In everything else, he's merely adequate. He's an actor where the "strings" are always visible & there's always a sense self-deliberation behind every motion.

Angelina Jolie is another actor who's crazy overrated & unnatural. Brad Pitt kicks ass most of the time but can suck pretty hard in the wrong role (Troy, Interview With The Vampire).

Kevin Costner, whom I am a staunch defender of, is bad even when he is incredible. His rhythmless, disinterested, monotone patter tends to betray his natural intensity & charisma alot of the time & become disastrous when he's required to stretch himself speech-wise (Robin Hood).

OK, let's try this one on for size: Al Pacino, for the most part, after Scarface.

His 70s performances are almost godlike: he was charismatic, almost infinitely versatile and at the same time naturaliostic and utterly believeable. Then cam scarface - a complete ham of a performance, but still great fun.

The thing is, after that point he just seems to get progressively bigger and more theatrical, his soft-spoken mumble becoming the BIG GRUFF HOO-AH VOICE! we all know today. Sure, there are great performances dotted here and there, but as the years have gone on he's just gotten more OTT and conversely, less interesting. Now, we watch Pacino ACTING rather than trying to embody a role. It's almost as if a chunk of Tony Montana got lodged somewhere up there and changed his style, making it more theatrical yet less relatable.

Am currently wearing pitchfork-retardant pants...

I don't think you'll get too much grief for Pacino.  I think lots of people agree with your position.

Natalie Portman.

I think the only thing I've been impressed with her in is Leon.

Pacino can dial the maudlin down & focus when he wants to. Carlito's Way, Sea Of Love, HEAT (mostly), & You Don't Know Jack (an incredibly low key & empathetic performance) come to mind.

I'd agree with Art Decade abput Angelina. One of my least favorite people working in Hollywood, it always feels like she is playing herself playing a role when I see her on screen. Pachino was good in ANY GIVEN SUNDAY though, I will state that

I think Kevin Costner when cast right is an absolute mega star, something about the pensive quality of his expressions and earnest unassuming voice is unique to him and lends him an immense dignity and power on screen

I'll go with that. Watching Dog Day Afternoon is breathtaking. He never reached that point again. I can't think of a performance beyond 1985 that I've enjoyed. Carlito's Way? Maybe, but I'm more drawn to the film as a whole, than his performance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Bain 

Natalie Portman.

 

I think the only thing I've been impressed with her in is Leon.

 

 

I have to agree, I watched VFV for the first time in years recently, and was blown away by how stiff and phony she was

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Bain 

Natalie Portman.

 

I think the only thing I've been impressed with her in is Leon.

God YES. Leon & Black Swan aside, Portman is Keanu level awkward & tone deaf. A completely unnatural actress.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Workyticket 

OK, let's try this one on for size: Al Pacino, for the most part, after Scarface.

 

His 70s performances are almost godlike: he was charismatic, almost infinitely versatile and at the same time naturaliostic and utterly believeable. Then cam scarface - a complete ham of a performance, but still great fun.

 

The thing is, after that point he just seems to get progressively bigger and more theatrical, his soft-spoken mumble becoming the BIG GRUFF HOO-AH VOICE! we all know today. Sure, there are great performances dotted here and there, but as the years have gone on he's just gotten more OTT and conversely, less interesting. Now, we watch Pacino ACTING rather than trying to embody a role. It's almost as if a chunk of Tony Montana got lodged somewhere up there and changed his style, making it more theatrical yet less relatable.

 

Am currently wearing pitchfork-retardant pants...

No I'm gonna back you on this one. I'd love to know what the hell happened to Pacino between Scarface and Sea Of Love, but something changed significantly.

Ok...this next guy is unquestionably great BUT he is also exceedingly one note. I can see him do awkward heavy lifting with every beat & every word.

Gods forgive me: Harvey Keitel.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeanCE 

I'll go with that. Watching Dog Day Afternoon is breathtaking. He never reached that point again. I can't think of a performance beyond 1985 that I've enjoyed. Carlito's Way? Maybe, but I'm more drawn to the film as a whole, than his performance.

Dog Day Afternoon might be one of my favorite performances ever; it's just amazing watching the man work, because the work utterly disappears into this wonderfully drawn character. It's an example of how brilliantly Method can work when used well.

Carlito's Way? Yeah, he great in that. It's still hammy, but it's an extremely likeable and sensitive kind of ham.

Heat is difficult. I'm the first one to admit he's great in the film, and plays Hanna perfectly - but it at the same time pushes all my 'Pacino being cartoonish' buttons. but hey, I'd chalk that one down to personal taste and freely admit that he makes the character everything he's meant to be. 

Anthony Hopkins.

Fucking horrible in everything. I've never liked him and I'm actually angry they got rid of Brian Cox for Silence of the Lambs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeanCE 

Anthony Hopkins.

 

Fucking horrible in everything. I've never liked him and I'm actually angry they got rid of Brian Cox for Silence of the Lambs.

"You'll never beat me, Sean."

Damn...Hopkins hate? I have to disagree my friend. I rewatched Mask of Zorro recently and he rocked the shit out of that.

Dude, was great in Thor.

Ooo, just remembered another one: James Dean. I saw Giant for the first time in years a little while back, and it struck me how his entire acting style seemed to revolve around a small pool of variations of the same Lean-Around-With-Head-Dipped-Down-For-Optimal-Doe-Eye-Angle pose. Looking past that, he wasn't doing anything interesting - all image, very little substance. Brando certainly had his arse licked in the 'Rebel Who can Act' stakes.

As for Hopkins: he's been great, but with many classically-trained actors you can see him fall back on the training when he's not being directed well. That gives him that technically impeccable but oddly detached and samey quality you sometimes see in old-school thesps.

SeanCE once again displays his dislike of anything Welsh.

Hey, it's just my opinion, I can't stand him. I'll also throw Lawrence Olivier  Richard Burton under the bus while I'm at it. 

Edit: I'm tired, I got muddled. I'm never going to live this down. I LOVE Olivier.

You know what they say about how everyone eventually meets someone that just rubs them the wrong way for no rational reason?  That's what this thread is going to fully transform into in a few posts!

I LOVE IT.

NIXON, THE BOUNTY, even without SILENCE, the guy is a true master of the screen

Is he sometimes lazy and full of ham? Sure. But when he cares, he's gripping to watch

PS Hopkins is tons of fun in ZORRO, I have to agree. I like the few bits we see of his ZORRO more than the Banderas ZORRO!

If someone mentions Christopher Walken in this thread, I'm going to punch them in the balls.   The guy pretty much takes any role for the right price but he's a pro.   The guy just delivers.   About Pacino, yeah the guy hasn't delivered like he did in the 70's but he still puts in a good performance from time to time.   For instance his work in Donnie Brasco is amazing and worth a look and for that matter, Johnny Depp's.  

So is this a thread about overrated actors or actors who used to be good and now take parts to pay the rent?   Because Pacino, Hopkins, and DeNiro (who is probably going to get name checked) have all done great stuff so they are capable of good acting even if they are slumming these days.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dynamotv 

If someone mentions Christopher Walken in this thread, I'm going to punch them in the balls.   The guy pretty much takes any role for the right price but he's a pro.   The guy just delivers.   About Pacino, yeah the guy hasn't delivered like he did in the 70's but he still puts in a good performance from time to time.   For instance his work in Donnie Brasco is amazing and worth a look and for that matter, Johnny Depp's.  

I'll take Walken in The Rundown/Welcome To The Jungle over any DeNiro or Pacino performance from the last decade thanks very much.

http://www.spike.com/video-clips/xqb787/the-rundown-the-tooth-fairy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Art Decade 

Pacino can dial the maudlin down & focus when he wants to. Carlito's Way, Sea Of Love, HEAT (mostly), & You Don't Know Jack (an incredibly low key & empathetic performance) come to mind.

I'll second the love for his performance in "You Don't Know Jack". All his mannerisms and habits were reigned in and he disappeared into the character. If it had been released theatrically (as opposed to HBO) he would have been Oscar nominated, easily.

The thing with Depp is, it's not that he's not a great actor, it's just that he's not a great dramatic actor.  His strengths are in things like whimsy, physical comedy; he's basically a comedian.  People always point to Donnie Brasco for evidence of his dramatic chops, and while he's good in that, he's certainly not great.  Pitt is a good point of comparison, because they're both pretty, and early on he would stand out when he could be funny, in things like True Romance, 12 Monkeys, Fight Club, etc...  Although Seven is an early argument for his dramatic talent, he definitely has improved it immensely over the years.  Depp hasn't really pushed himself nearly as much.

Also, anybody who thinks Hopkins isn't great needs to watch The Remains of the Day.  His problem is he became really popular so late in his life, he was already in the "Ham it up and cash the paycheck" phase.

(BTW, is this a "prove I have bad taste in acting" thread?) 

Hey, look, it's another "Bad Taste" thread. James Dean? Fuck you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Elvis 

Hey, look, it's another "Bad Taste" thread. James Dean? Fuck you.

Why don't you make like a tree and... oh, wait, bad choice of words.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bailey 

The thing with Depp is, it's not that he's not a great actor, it's just that he's not a great dramatic actor.  His strengths are in things like whimsy, physical comedy; he's basically a comedian. 

Is this revelatory to some?

I think there's a difference between 'Bad Taste' and finding a particular performers rhythm off. Writing off a thread like that is just stifling discussion. I'd rather this thread activity than the fucking celebrity melons one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Rain Dog 

Is this revelatory to some?

 

 

There are plenty of people who are convinced Depp is a great actor, full stop.  Then there are others who say he's not a great actor.  I was just saying that I think he's great at some things, and not at others.  It's not supposed to be a revelation, just a clarification.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeanCE 

Anthony Hopkins.

 

Fucking horrible in everything. I've never liked him and I'm actually angry they got rid of Brian Cox for Silence of the Lambs.

I love me some Welsh Tony, but I too can't abide his Lector, especially when compared to Cox'.  Hopkin's Lector, you just think Will Graham must have been utter shite not too immediately pick him as being a nutjob.  Cox's measured one is much more hidden and therefore, in my mind, infinitely more scary.

 The casual delivery of the whole "I don;t have the use of my arms, can you dial a number for me?" sequence when he gets Graham's number is superb.  You just would not pick him as the serial killer you were after.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Elvis 

Hey, look, it's another "Bad Taste" thread. James Dean? Fuck you.

Hey look, it's the 'People are making criticisms of people everyone's required to find great, so that must mean they have baaaad taaaste!' brigade.

I think one of reasons I don't like him is that, after Silence of the Lambs, he basically stuck his heels in and played variations of the same role. Zorro, is fun, but I deeply dislike his Nixon. His best performance for me is still Magic. 

Not a bad actor but one who benefits from a good director....

Credit where due, he was amazing in the 70's and early 80's but the guy has been coasting on playing the same basic persona since then.   The only time I can recall him stretching beyond that comfort zone is with "About Schmidt".   He's a good actor but he definitely goes back to the well to often.

So hang on, should this threads name get changed to "Great actors that just aren't any good anymore"?

I'm not a huge fan of the movie overall, but I thought Hopkins was aces in Shadowlands.

Also, how dare you drag my beloved Natalie Portman into this thread. Them's fightin' words.

I just hope it eventually changes into "let's start posting pictures of people we'd easily recognize by name alone."  I love those threads.

If I say Morgan Freeman, am I going to get punched in the cock?

Anyone who thinks Johnny Depp is a poor actor should watch The Ninth Gate. A cheesy movie but he really creates and inhabits that character.

Most of the posts in this thread are about specific films in which the actor failed to do a good job. Was that because of poor direction, bad script, personal issues, etc? That is different from saying an actor just lacks talent.
 

I'd nominate Clint Eastwood and Arnold Schwartzenegger for this thread. Both are really well known, I love their movies, but neither one has ever convinced me they are the characters they play. Of the two Eastwood gets praise as an actor (Arnold is Arnold and always has been). But to me he's always been a persona, not a character, no matter what movie he's in.

As my post indicates, I don't think being a bad actor is necessarily a bad thing if you are a movie star.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bailey 

I just hope it eventually changes into "let's start posting pictures of people we'd easily recognize by name alone."  I love those threads.

point taken.