I was very excited to see the American Reunion movie. I saw American Pie just after college and remembered it was quite funny.
Jim, Michelle, Oz, Heather, Stifler reunite for their high school...
Seriously, at this point I'd like to jump in a Tardis and go back to cockpunch Daniel Myrick and Eduardo Sanchez so hard they're both too busy doubled over sucking air to ever make The Blair Witch Project in the first place.
I thought the horse was beaten to death before Cloverfield, then we get Apollo 18, then this Devil Inside shit (seriously does anyone think that looks at all good?!?!) and now this cheap piece of crap
...and thats it really isn't it, they're cheap to make, cheap to market, and there are enough retards out there prepared to watch essentially the same film over and over that will pay to make it profitable.
I'm having a hard time coming up with a lazier, more cynical example of Hollywood shitting out product these days than these so-called 'films'. [/rant]
Well, "Chronicle" at least looks interesting from a genre mixing perspective - we're seen so much superpowered bullshit over the last couple of years, so why not this sort of fresh spin?
The issue I have with the genre as a whole is the inherent narcissism, the need for the protagonists (usually middle/upper class whites) who have the INTENSE NEED to "document" everything, when you should really just drop the damn camera and run. It's the 2012 equivalent to Eddie Murphy's rant on "Poltergeist" and haunted house films.
It wasn't plausible at the beginning at the genre, and it's even worse now that these characters are just completely wedded to their cameras, Videodrome style. I just hope a large portion of the audience doesn't directly relate to the (always!) douchebag protagonists.
I'm with you about the trend of found footage movies. The cynicism behind the trend strikes me the same way as network TV's adoption of game shows and reality shows in the last decade.
But considering the fact that the Blair Witch was over a decade ago, I don't think it's 'fair' (hahah) to blame the current trend on it. I'd actually place more blame on Cloverfield for the current stream of these types of movies.
That said, I find that I'm kind of looking forward to Chronicle. It's clearly not a story that needs this format at all, but I suppose these movies have to do whatever they can to stick out from the rest of the movies coming out every week. If Chronicle was a conventionally shot movie, I'm sure it would be brushed off. The found footage gimmick makes it stand out. For now.
EDIT: Dammit Gabe.
But on the subject of the convention of these assholes recording everything instead of running for dear life, I feel like it's no longer stretching credulity as much as it may have before. Looking at all the crap on Youtube indicates that people ARE that narcissistic. So there's that.
And like the mockumentary format that has become just another TV show format (The Office, Arrested Development), it seems like these movies are going to be breaking the 'rules' of found footage more blatantly and thoughtlessly simply because the audience is getting used to it. The trailer for Chronicle already seems to have several shots that look more like a conventionally shot movie than a found footage one.
I really liked Blair Witch, Cloverfield, all three Paranormal Activity's, and The Last Exorcism. In the case of the PA movies, its like all the best parts of Ghost Hunters in a fun scary movie. I've always liked monster movies, especially Godzilla movies. I enjoyed Cloverfield because it gave me everything I want to see in a monster movie, but found a different way to do it.
The issue I have with the genre as a whole is the inherent narcissism, the need for the protagonists (usually middle/upper class whites) who have the INTENSE NEED to "document" everything, when you should really just drop the damn camera and run. It's the 2012 equivalent to Eddie Murphy's rant on "Poltergeist" and haunted house films.
It wasn't plausible at the beginning at the genre, and it's even worse now that these characters are just completely wedded to their cameras, Videodrome style. I just hope a large portion of the audience doesn't directly relate to the (always!) douchebag protagonists.
Couldn't agree more. I remember chuckling my way through Cloverfield because the Yuppies In Distress spent the whole movie so intent on having the camera in their hands and/or faces, documenting being stalked by a monster and its 180,000 skittering offspring, that nobody thought once to actually pick something up to defend themselves with. Not even a stick. Can't use those camera hands, I guessOH GOD IT'S JUMPING ON MY FACE! WHO COULD'VE POSSIBLY SEEN THAT COMING?!?
The genre being played out is definitely a legitimate concern. The fact that the films are always populated by complete, dribbling fucknuts doesn't help, either.
The first and last word on all found footage films is GHOSTWATCH the "live" 1992 Halloween investigation into a haunted home on BBC1.
The "Haunting" was based on an actual investigation in the late 1970s called the Enfield Poltergiest which sort of gave it a sense of reality. It's a little dated now, but if you go in with the right frame of mind, I think that aspect helps. It feels like you're watching something recovered from the archives. It also predicted Ghost Hunters, Ghost Adventures and Most Haunted by a decade. On broadcast it felt so new and I was so excited for a "Live ghost investigation" that I remember being glued to the set all night. Something that over the years has become a joke, felt so exciting to 12 year old me.
It's probably my favorite horror film of all time, beyond anything bigger, or technically better. There's something about it, that, without fail, always brings me to the boil with fear. I think it also might have the most frightening DVD menu of all time. So much so, that once I left the DVD player on for a few days without realising I'd left the disc in. The menu, hooked up to my surround sound made me think I was haunted for half a week...
There's something about not having actors, but shitty low level TV presenters you're utterly familiar with as its main cast that make it work. People you'd never expect to be involved in something like this. I'm trying to think of an american comparison to Michael Parkinson (Regis Philbin? Johnny Carson?) but it's played so well. The scares are also very fleeting with the ghost, but what you do see is a good deal more than something like Paranormal Activity, stopping just far enough to let your imagination completely fucking ruin you.
I'm reluctant to say much about it because it's so well done, and I don't imagine many chewers have seen it. It caused a huge controversy on broadcast, because someone committed suicide in the wake of it's broadcast, causing a ban on repeat showings for the past 20 years.
Wiki:
Quote:
A number of psychological effects were reported in Ghostwatch's wake: 18-year-old factory worker Martin Denham, who suffered from learning difficulties and had a mental age of 13, committed suicide five days after the programme aired. The family home had suffered with a faulty central heating system which had caused the pipes to knock; Denham linked this to the activity in the show causing great worry. He left a suicide note reading "if there are ghosts I will be ... with you always as a ghost". His mother and stepfather, April and Percy Denham, blamed the BBC. They claimed that Martin was "hypnotised and obsessed" by the programme. The Broadcasting Standards Commission refused their complaint, along with 34 others, as being outside their remit, but the High Court granted the Denhams permission for a judicial review requiring the BSC to hear their complaint.
Simons and Silveira published a report in the British Medical Journal in February 1994, describing two cases of Ghostwatch-induced post-traumatic stress disorder in children, both ten-year-old boys. They stated that these were the first reported cases of PTSD caused by a television programme.
I urge everyone to seek this out. I'm not sure there's a Region 1 copy and the best Region 2 copy by the BFI is now out of print, but however you get hold of it, make sure its a complete 90 minute version. Word of warning though, DO NOT read the wiki summary, as it'll spoil the whole experience. You need to watch this in the dark, in the quiet.
I love FOUND FOOTAGE. When done well, it's a remarkably effective style for certain genres. The problem is that many of the found footage movies are made by people with little talent who thought it would be easier to make a found footage movie than regular one. The basic concept of such films is sound though, and recent gems like TROLL HUNTER prove it can always be used in innovative ways
PS APOLLO 18 is a great idea for a movie, unfortunately it is so busied and frantic that it loses the eerie stillness and silence of the moon, what should have been the film's greatest asset. It rushed to the scary stuff way too early, when it should have been a slow burn of dread. Because the ultimate reveal was too goofy to serve as a compelling menace for the second and third acts, the whole film deflates and becomes a tedious affair
These are kind of like all things Zombie for me. I love the idea so much, but there's too damn many and too damn many bad ones. So I'm torn between wishing people would leave it the hell alone for a while and hoping someone makes a great one soon (and even thought to be that someone in both genres. Doesn't mean it's likely of course. Probably how a lot of bad ones get made).
I mean, the concept for Apollo 18 is brilliant. I have to see it just to know how the hell you screw that up.
It's very true that there's lots of room to stage these things a whole lot better, so it's not always idiots inexplicably pointing the camera in the right direction when they should be running for their lives (although I like Cloverfield a lot). Even in quite well thought out ones they need more work there. A decent one like Noroi: The Curse has a fair bit of that at the end. I was already thinking through while I was watching it how to make it not seem like this guy is doing shot reverse shot pans with his video camera for some reason while all hell is breaking loose around him (including his foster child being attacked by a madman with a rock. Which shouldn't really spoil anything out of context). The rationale that "Oh he's a documentary maker, it's in his blood" as per Blair Witch really doesn't cut it.
Parker has it right. I think out of all the found footage movies I've only watched Blair Witch. A fact I'm probably not going to change anytime soon. And no one should come up with some sort of "You should judge each movie on its merits and not write it off because of the way it's been shot" because I don't care. I do not watch reality TV either regardless if you're talking about The Deadliest Catch or Jersey Shore and I think I'm better for it.
The first and last word on all found footage films is GHOSTWATCH the "live" 1992 Halloween investigation into a haunted home on BBC1.
Ghostwatch! I was living in the U.K. when that screened, it was brilliantly done (And several years ahead of its time). They played it with such a straight face, many people at the time believed it (Including me...). Little would I know that worrying for Craig Charles' personal health was soon to become a regular occurrence...
I just can't stand how almost all the films in this genre feel the need to spend the first 20 to 30 minutes showing us absolutely boring, mundane crap like the cameraman figuring out how to use the camera, the crew driving to wherever they're filming, and supposed camaraderie between the characters before whatever the twist is comes. We know something has to go wrong -- we're not paying money to see the trouble-free production of The Witch of Coffin Rock -- but geez, do something different with the set-up.
I really liked Blair Witch, Cloverfield, all three Paranormal Activity's, and The Last Exorcism. In the case of the PA movies, its like all the best parts of Ghost Hunters in a fun scary movie. I've always liked monster movies, especially Godzilla movies. I enjoyed Cloverfield because it gave me everything I want to see in a monster movie, but found a different way to do it.
This x10. Still havent seen PA3, but down with the rest. Like any other gimmick, it's not the film-style that I'm sick of. It's shitty filmmakers using it to make shitty films.
To amend my previous statement slightly, I have seen a few. I liked Blair Witch initially but I bet it wouldn't hold up if I watched it again. I've also seen Troll Hunter and the Last Exorcism. They both had moments (the lead performance in Troll Hunter made it almost recommendable) but there wasn't enough in either of them to qualify them as bad movies. People tell me those three are the best of the bunch, so why watch more? The look of the Paranormal Activity movies are enough to keep me away.
I just can't stand how almost all the films in this genre feel the need to spend the first 20 to 30 minutes showing us absolutely boring, mundane crap like the cameraman figuring out how to use the camera, the crew driving to wherever they're filming, and supposed camaraderie between the characters before whatever the twist is comes. We know something has to go wrong -- we're not paying money to see the trouble-free production of The Witch of Coffin Rock -- but geez, do something different with the set-up.
I don't mind this at all. Does every film need to begin this way? No. But I have nothing against found footage that indulges in such conventions
I'll defend Cloverfield until my dying day. I don't think I'm sick to death of found footage movies so much as shitty films in general, of which a predominant amount happen to be in the found footage genre these days. When done right, I think these movies can have some appeal. But given the fact that they're cheap to produce and quick to film, you're going to be saddled with a lot of glurge.
Then again, I'm completely apathetic towards the trailer for Chronicle. So maybe the genre's run its course for awhile.
I never really got the impression Chronicle was a found footage sort of thing, despite the marketing. Is it? Sure it probably incorporates a lot of home video stuff, but there's stuff in there that looks properly shot from a detached perspective. I don't know though.
Still, it looks novel enough. Chuck it in the teen super sub-genre with Jumper maybe? And we at least know where Wallace got to (after playing high school football for a while).
Blair Witch Project is actually one of the worst in itself. But that was all about the meta mythology really. The best Blair Witch related thing is The Curse of the Blair Witch doco that they put out along side it. That is a really well done piece.
Anyway a couple have said that they won't go and see these films because of the way they look. Is that as in; home video's picture is inferior so you won't watch it?
The idea of being a found-footage completist, btw, spooks me. Because it all starts to get really same-y after awhile. I just hadn't realized until now how many of these I've missed.
Though I am intrigued by the "found footage" film Project X coming later this year. Apparently Michael Bacall wrote it, and it deals with some sort of teen block party that goes horribly wrong, to the point where someone had a flamethrower and hazmat suit in the trailer. I don't think it's a horror film, so that's nice.
Hard for me to decide where I stand on found footage. Just when I thought I was finished with all this nonsense, Trollhunter comes along and ends up being one of my favorite flicks from last year. Then Apollo 18 comes along and shits on my face. In the hands of someone even semi-competent, these movies can be well crafted and fun and pack quite a few legitimate scares into 80 minutes and I like that. Chronicle and the Project X (the Todd Phillips thing, right?) seem interesting and "fresh", conceptually at least, but who knows. Right now, everything coming down the pipeline seems cheap and lazy and I think I'm going to simply avoid them until I hear otherwise.
However, even though I'm sure its going to be a disaster, I find myself extremely curious about Oren Peli's upcoming found footage TV show.
I'm still waiting for a found footage movie where the POV cameraman gets killed a quarter of the way through because he's a dumbass carrying a camera when shit's going down, and the rest of the movie plays out like a regular movie.
Chronicle interests me not so much because it's a found footage film, but because it's a found 'anything other than horror' footage film. I get that low production can sometimes yield higher scares, but what about some Dogme-esque (though not adhering to the strict rules of Dogme) found footage film about a family that falls apart because what the fuck ever? Or even a FF comedy film. Or is that too much faux documentary? Aah! Is there a difference? Does TDI count because there's a "film-maker" behind it who inserts himself into the piece?
When done right, it's great. I still love Blair Witch, still creeps me the fuck out. But they have to push the boundaries and, basically, stop giving us another god damn exorcism movie.
Chronicle interests me not so much because it's a found footage film, but because it's a found 'anything other than horror' footage film. I get that low production can sometimes yield higher scares, but what about some Dogme-esque (though not adhering to the strict rules of Dogme) found footage film about a family that falls apart because what the fuck ever? Or even a FF comedy film. Or is that too much faux documentary?
The Virginity Hit, haven't seen it but some seem to like it and it's technically a found footage comedy. Although the footage is never lost and found so....maybe more of a docu-comedy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by roboTimKelly
I'll defend Cloverfield until my dying day. I don't think I'm sick to death of found footage movies so much as shitty films in general, of which a predominant amount happen to be in the found footage genre these days. When done right, I think these movies can have some appeal. But given the fact that they're cheap to produce and quick to film, you're going to be saddled with a lot of glurge.
Then again, I'm completely apathetic towards the trailer for Chronicle. So maybe the genre's run its course for awhile.
WHAT? But the main characters are white and...and.....they make money! How could you? HOW COULD YOU!!!!!!
I think another problem with the found footage genre is that is demands a very particular kind of suspension of disbelief that trades off unpredictability. We're not just meant to buy it as a story, but also as an event that actually happened, and was actually filmed by real people with no dramatic construction involved. There's no room to wink at the audience style-wise like you can in, say, mockumentary; the entire thing revolves around you believing that this is all absolutely real. But we see this tried too poorly too many times, and that erodes that suspension of disbelief. The tropes become obvious, the surprise disappears and all we see is an old trick that's stopped working. It just becomes a schtick that's twice as tedious because we know we're supposed to sit there and pretend yet again, that this is something we weren't expecting. It's a style of film that to work effectively, should only be tried every few years to preserve that unfamiliarity and surprise. But if everyone's doing it, it's like having a surprise party every day for a year.
I'm surprised no one's tried to do a caper film using a building's security cameras. You'd have a camera that has an excuse to keep filming no matter what, the ability to change locations, the possibility of using split-screen to pretty good effect, and an actual reason for the footage to eventually be seen.
I'd imagine that it hasn't been done because caper films are often so dependent on how much you like those involved in the caper, and a more conventional style of shooting would still be necessary?
I dunno. Maybe a mix of a team of narcissists who tape themselves during the heist as well as cutting to the security footage... or something.
The opening sequence of "Strange Days" is like a found footage caper film. It's a POV shot done in one (seemingly) unbroken take. I remember reading that it took them a year to prep for just that sequence. A whole movie like that would be rip-roaring.
It's not as if movies get details like that wrong all the time though. Hollywood doesn't care about that degree of technical accuracy. They just care that most people think it's technically accurate.
We should have a found footage movie shot solely through a police officer's dashboard cam. It'd be like a two-hour episode of COPS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82
It's not as if movies get details like that wrong all the time though. Hollywood doesn't care about that degree of technical accuracy. They just care that most people think it's technically accurate.
While I agree that Trollhunter is the only one of these I've seen recently that I liked, I do have to say that the opening-night experience of Cloverfield in a packed theatre was a helluva lot of fun. Sadly, I knew what I was getting into, but somehow the place was full of people that didn't, and their reactions were a blast.
I think another problem with the found footage genre is that is demands a very particular kind of suspension of disbelief that trades off unpredictability. We're not just meant to buy it as a story, but also as an event that actually happened, and was actually filmed by real people with no dramatic construction involved. There's no room to wink at the audience style-wise like you can in, say, mockumentary; the entire thing revolves around you believing that this is all absolutely real. But we see this tried too poorly too many times, and that erodes that suspension of disbelief. The tropes become obvious, the surprise disappears and all we see is an old trick that's stopped working. It just becomes a schtick that's twice as tedious because we know we're supposed to sit there and pretend yet again, that this is something we weren't expecting. It's a style of film that to work effectively, should only be tried every few years to preserve that unfamiliarity and surprise. But if everyone's doing it, it's like having a surprise party every day for a year.
I'd argue it's grown thin and tired so quickly because it's not a particularly solid structural premise upon which to base a story, needing the ridiculous suspension of disbelief you mention above. It's barely even a gimmick.
I feel a bit like Louis CK... "is that a thing? It feels like that shouldn't be a thing."
I view "Found Footage" films like I view epistolary novels. I enjoy the different approach. When it's well done, it's fantastic and engrossing and involving in a way a regular narrative wouldn't be. It works well in so many mediums: websites, films, tv specials, books, etc. Count me as a fan. There are as many shitty movies for great movies as there are shitty found footage films for great found footage films.
Yes, that's why Noroi (The Curse) is really solid and The Curse of the Blair Witch too in a sense. They're like Dracula and the "found" elements come from all over the place to assemble the narrative from different perspectives and times. That approach is really good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bradito
The opening sequence of "Strange Days" is like a found footage caper film. It's a POV shot done in one (seemingly) unbroken take. I remember reading that it took them a year to prep for just that sequence. A whole movie like that would be rip-roaring.
This is probably the next thing. An entirely GoPro'd skiing adventure somehow combining the Dyatlov Pass Incident and Yetis or something.
Did anyone catch the Australian D2V thing from last year The Tunnel? It's notable for being almost entirely crowdsourced. It's not great, but it's not horrible. I managed to sit through it alright. The story is the flimsiest balderdash though. Moreso than most. And they kinda underlined this by having, quite well done, survivor interviews running through it. If it was just the lost tapes or whatever I think it might not have been so obvious how little sense it made.
Hence the caveat "done well" because, yeah, it could end up easily being awful. I think a Dyatlov Pass movie would get my money no matter what, I was obsessed by the story as a kid.
We should have a found footage movie shot solely through a police officer's dashboard cam. It'd be like a two-hour episode of COPS.
Actually, I believe that technique was done for a movie in '05 called Invasion, dealing with... well, you can probably guess on your own what it's about. I've never actually seen it myself; I just heard it discussed here, or maybe it was somewhere else.
Problem is, it was directed by Albert Pyun. Enough said there. Plus, it makes me laugh thinking that he of all people would be ahead of his time thitere.
I'm starting to get tired of the genre although it's because I've seen some poor examples of the genre the past year or so, capped out by the horrible The Devil Inside. However, if people would be more original (such as what neoolong suggested) AND the movies weren't bad, then I would be more positive of the trend. Given how it's still a moneymaker, it will not be going away anytime soon so there might as well be hope for more creativity.
Hell, I'd otherwise be fine with the idea, as I've enjoyed all of the Paranormal Activity movies, I thought Cloverfield was fine, and I didn't even think Apollo 18 was as awful as many people say it is.
Then again, maybe it's because that film actually had the nards to rip off the MST3K movie
As for Chronicle, I've never thought it was a found footage movie at all. Maybe it has elements of it, I don't know, but I just presumed it was more straightforward. By the way, that movie happened to be written by Max Landis. Yes, his dad is exactly who you think it is. His is by far his biggest gig but judging by an interview I've heard with him he doesn't sound like the type of person who'd write teen-themed crap for a big studio. Hopefully the film actually isn't turned into that.
I think a Dyatlov Pass movie would get my money no matter what, I was obsessed by the story as a kid.
I think Neil Marshall was going to do something based on this story, don't think it was found footage though. Might be a dead project now.
The thing about the found footage genre for me is, it's all about dizzying highs and shittastic lows. Obviously there are movies like Apollo 18 and The Devil Inside that deserve universal hate, but when these films are good I think they're fucking awesome. Actually that verite style is the only way I can get real scares from horror anymore- everything is amplified with these, more real, more intense, more disturbing. Some faves:
Cannibal Holocaust
BWP
Ghostwatch (watched this one "live" on Halloween night... yeah)
Paranormal Activity (I like the sequels but nothing compares to 1)
[Rec]
The Last Exorcism
The Collingswood Story
Incident at Loch Ness
Cloverfield
Lake Mungo
Noroi
My Little Eye
Man Bites Dog
Catfish
Motherfucking Marble Hornets
I could never give these up and I'm very thankful that they exist. You could argue that some of them are more fake documentary/mockumentary than strict "found footage", but they use the same tricks as far as I'm concerned.
