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JOSS WHEDON EXPLAINS WHICH AVENGER HIS MOVIE FAVORS

post #1 of 93
1/13/12 at 10:30am
Thread Starter 
by Renn Brown: link

I bet you can guess...
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post #2 of 93
1/13/12 at 11:11am

Guessed wrong. 

 

And fucking hell, the Photoshop work on RDJ's head in that banner is wonky.

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post #3 of 93
1/13/12 at 11:15am

This is cool, but as I've been saying for years now, this should have been the Captain America movie. It's OK for Cap to dominate the Avengers, but it would have been nice if the more poignant story of an out-of-time American awakening to a country that's become very different had been given its own movie instead of being crammed into an ensemble.

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post #4 of 93
1/13/12 at 11:18am

Who did you guess?  I half-thought Whedon would Whedon it and center it around Maria Hill.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by HarleyQuinn22 View Post

Guessed wrong. 

 

And fucking hell, the Photoshop work on RDJ's head in that banner is wonky.



 

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post #5 of 93
1/13/12 at 2:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by neoolong View Post

Who did you guess?  I half-thought Whedon would Whedon it and center it around Maria Hill.



I just figured they'd want the film to favor the one who's made the most money, that being Mr. Stark.

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post #6 of 93
1/13/12 at 2:43pm

Makes sense.  I suppose it could have been about how he goes from the consultant to a full-fledged Avenger.

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post #7 of 93
1/13/12 at 3:22pm

Same structure as X-Men. Let's see who gets the shaft.

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post #8 of 93
1/13/12 at 3:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny View Post

Same structure as X-Men. Let's see who gets the shaft.



My moneys on poor unappreciated Ruffalo personally.

 

I can see this working, especially with Evans as Rogers.

 

That said, after Thor, I really hope Hemsworth is given some decent time. Damn if I'm not warming to that kid.

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post #9 of 93
1/13/12 at 4:11pm

They better not have Coulson bite it.

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post #10 of 93
1/13/12 at 6:46pm

Sad to say, I'm guessing Coulson was introduced specifically as a sacrificial lamb because Whedon can't kill off any other main characters.

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post #11 of 93
1/13/12 at 6:51pm

..or maybe Coulson becomes ANT-MAN! TWIST!

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post #12 of 93
1/13/12 at 8:40pm


Oh shit, Whedon has a raging boner for killing people, too.  People we like.  Coulson's a goner, and Maria Hill will be the Designated Marvel Easter Egg from now on.

 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Prankster View Post

Sad to say, I'm guessing Coulson was introduced specifically as a sacrificial lamb because Whedon can't kill off any other main characters.



 

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post #13 of 93
1/13/12 at 8:57pm

Not surprised since I found the Captain America movie to be kind of lacking in action, might as well save it for this movie.  Plus, I'm sure it was pretty hard to try and not make this just into Iron Man 3.

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post #14 of 93
1/14/12 at 12:17am

I loved the shit out of Cap.  I probably even liked it more than First Class which is the highest compliment I can pay.  Naturally, I'm thrilled that this is "Cap's movie", even if it will no doubt be very well distributed between members.

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post #15 of 93
1/14/12 at 12:35am

This makes me happy.

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post #16 of 93
1/14/12 at 3:26am

No brainer there.

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post #17 of 93
1/14/12 at 3:58am

I love Iron Man and have a huge man crush on RDJ but I am thrilled Stark isn't front and centre of this. 

 

I really hope the next trailer shows off the films scale because the 'size' of the film is the only thing I'm worried about. Everything else looks golden.

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post #18 of 93
1/14/12 at 4:43am

There was no chance of it being otherwise. Character wise Cap's arc is the one with the meat in a movie about the forming of the Avengers.

 

And if, as some awful people said earlier in the thread, some evil befalls agent Coulson, I'll fucking flip my shit. I'll burn the fucker to the ground. 

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post #19 of 93
1/14/12 at 4:48am

I'm calling it now:

 

A: Coulson bites it/was always an alien spy

B: Hawkeye gets the least screentime

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post #20 of 93
1/14/12 at 8:07am

I keep forgetting that Hawkeye is in this, so you're probably right. Because of my lack of enthusiasm about Whedon and Marvel properties in general since Iron Man 2, I'm kind of down on this film, but I have to admit that I'm curious as to how the balancing act will play out. Anyone thinking that RDJ won't ultimately walk away with this film (at least with the best lines), despite Whedon's claims, is probably dreaming. Evans said in an interview w/ Travers for Capt. America that he was initially concerned about Downey b/c he knew, and I quote: "he's the big dog on set and I didn't know how that was going to go." He went on to flatter his co-star, but I imagine that big dog took advantage of his bark and maybe his bite to, at least occasionally, get shit done his way.

 

There are some interesting character moments in Sherlock Holmes: GOS that mirror Iron Man 2 in terms of character beats and dialogue that bespeak of Downey's increased influence over his projects. 

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post #21 of 93
1/14/12 at 8:44am

It makes total sense from a narrative point of view that Cap will work as the audience identification character. He's the simplest personality with the best hook: boy scout from "the greatest generation", fish out of water. He also has no supporting cast, whereas the other characters are all connected:

 

Black Widow, Hawkeye and Nick Fury are all SHIELD Agents

Two out of three of them have worked with Iron Man

Iron Man was "putting together a team" to take down the Hulk at the end of The Incredible Hulk

Thor's main concern will probably be his brother, Loki, causing trouble

 

I said something similar over in the pre-release thread a while ago, but I'm pretty certain Black Widow and Cap will, if not end up together, have a strong flirtation. Cap and Iron Man will butt heads not just over that, but because Tony represents 21st century decadence. Thor's great in this character dynamic, because I'm sure he'll love Iron Man's party lifestyle but respect Cap's warrior spirit. 

 

Hawkeye ends up being the badass, the Jayne of the team, with no character arc. Hulk and Banner have little to do but be used by both sides, but Banner probably finally finds acceptance and won't feel hounded by the authorities anymore. 

 

Maybe lesbians at some point.

 

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post #22 of 93
1/14/12 at 9:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelios View Post

And if, as some awful people said earlier in the thread, some evil befalls agent Coulson, I'll fucking flip my shit. I'll burn the fucker to the ground. 


Get your matches ready.  He exists solely to tie all the flicks together in anticipation of this movie.  His purpose has been served.  He's a goner.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike's Pants View Post

I'm calling it now:

 

A: Coulson bites it/was always an alien spy

B: Hawkeye gets the least screentime

 

Yup yup.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven View Post

 

I said something similar over in the pre-release thread a while ago, but I'm pretty certain Black Widow and Cap will, if not end up together, have a strong flirtation. Cap and Iron Man will butt heads not just over that, but because Tony represents 21st century decadence. 

 

 


I think they'll put her with Hawkeye to give that poor bastard some semblance of screen time.  I don't know how much time has passed between the ending of Cap and this one, but I think he might still be too freaked out over losing Hayley Atwell's tits to flirt with the Widow.  Plus, I doubt Scarlett will show up in Cap 2, so why bother start something that isn't going to be finished. 

 

There WILL be some poignant moment where Cap and Tony talk about Tony's dad, undercut by a classic Stark zinger.

 

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post #23 of 93
1/14/12 at 10:18am

As they're not thinking about doing new Hulk movies, they could off Banner. If they kill Coulson, they have just killed some guy. Let the opening sequence show that it takes all Avengers to stop the Hulk. Midway when the invasion happens, Tony arrogantly thinks they'll only have to set the green guy off to win - and Ruffalo does in fact go off and smash the Skrulls like it's going out of style, making it look like a sure win, until Thanos comes up and kills him. That'd be a good shock.


Maybe that's the real reason Norton didn't want to be in Avengers. I bet hearing that there won't be another single Hulk movie soon was a bummer, but appearing in Avengers in only a few scenes, with one of them having him die...

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post #24 of 93
1/14/12 at 10:24am

They're not going to kill the Hulk.

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post #25 of 93
1/14/12 at 10:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarleyQuinn22 View Post

 

I think they'll put her with Hawkeye to give that poor bastard some semblance of screen time.  I don't know how much time has passed between the ending of Cap and this one, but I think he might still be too freaked out over losing Hayley Atwell's tits to flirt with the Widow.  Plus, I doubt Scarlett will show up in Cap 2, so why bother start something that isn't going to be finished. 

 

There WILL be some poignant moment where Cap and Tony talk about Tony's dad, undercut by a classic Stark zinger.

 


Rumor has it Amanda Righetti, who appeared for like 10 seconds in Captain America, was playing Sharon Carter.  She could be in The Avengers, or reappear in Captain America 2.  It'd feel like a Kate Mara in Iron Man 2 situation if she never appears again.  Though what does that say about Steve if he goes after the grandaughter of the woman he was into back in the 40's.


Anyway, I can see them going that way than with a direct Widow/Cap relationship.

 

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post #26 of 93
1/14/12 at 10:41am

Something to consider:

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

In The Ultimates, which is seemingly a major basis for this movie, Black Widow turns out to be a traitor. Because, see, she's a Russian spy, and that's how Mark Millar's mind works.

I wonder if this'll carry over somehow. The idea that the Widow is a Skrull is actually kind of intriguing. However, since she's the only female superhero character, I doubt they'll kill her or have her turn out to be a baddie. I could *kind of* see a plotline where they go with the "sleeper Skrulls" from Secret Invasion, Widow learns that she's a Skrull along with everyone else, is horrified, and tries to overcome it and do right, leading to her siding with the good guys? I didn't read Secret Invasion so I don't know how this works. And hey, shapeshifting is a logical superpower for a spy! Maybe they can keep her around in that form!

 

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post #27 of 93
1/14/12 at 10:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by neoolong View Post
Though what does that say about Steve if he goes after the grandaughter of the woman he was into back in the 40's.

 



These aren't normal circumstances, and Cap and Peggy never had sex.  Sharon's fair game.

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post #28 of 93
1/14/12 at 10:57am

You know, I wonder if Peggy is still alive at the end of Captain America.

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post #29 of 93
1/14/12 at 10:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by neoolong View Post

You know, I wonder if Peggy is still alive at the end of Captain America.



She'd be, what, in her eighties?  It's possible.

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post #30 of 93
1/14/12 at 11:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarleyQuinn22 View Post



She'd be, what, in her eighties?  It's possible.



wonder if we'll get a shot of her sleeping, or maybe something else, dreaming of Cap rather than her husband, kids and grandkids....

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post #31 of 93
1/14/12 at 11:33am

What I'm really curious is how this messes up with Thor's story. He finishes the movie unable to return to earth and connect back with his (poorly setup) love interest, Nathalie Portman.

So he's back on earth in this movie, and Nathalie Portman doesn't even show up? Also wondering how much time is spent getting Thor back to earth ...

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post #32 of 93
1/14/12 at 11:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Bain View Post



wonder if we'll get a shot of her sleeping, or maybe something else, dreaming of Cap rather than her husband, kids and grandkids....



Would Red Skull be there, clapping and crying?

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post #33 of 93
1/14/12 at 11:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarleyQuinn22 View Post

Guessed wrong. 


Me too, I figured that Whedon's fondness for female ass-kickers would mean an artificially pumped up role for Black Widow, especially as ScarJo's the biggest female name in that cast.

 

As for Coulson dying, I'm going to go ahead and bet that he doesn't, simply because the character (voiced by Clark Gregg) is gonna be appearing in Marvel's Ultimate Spider-Man cartoon.

 

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post #34 of 93
1/14/12 at 12:09pm

If you read the rest of the article, it says Cap isn't the main character

 

Quote:

“[The Avengers] is very much about people who are alone — because I’m writing it,” jokes Whedon, who has assembled groups of outcasts before in TV’s Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Firefly — but also, remember, in his script for the original Toy Story. “[Captain America] is kind of the ultimate loner in that way. There is an anachronism to him, and Chris and I have always tried to, without making it goofy or too obvious, make him that same grounded ’40s Steve Rogers he was in the other movie.”

 

All that means is Captain America is the lens through which much of the story is seen. It doesn’t mean he’s the main character. The heroes in the film — Robert Downey Jr.’s Iron Man, Chris Hemsworth’s Thor, Mark Ruffalo’s Hulk, Scarlett Johansson’s Black Widow, Jeremy Renner’s Hawkeye, and Samuel L. Jackson’s spymaster Nick Fury — carry about equal share of the movie. “You get them in a world, the world of S.H.I.E.L.D., where they fit in. And you say upfront, these are monsters. These are freaks. These are not you and me, and what are they doing here? How are they human beings?” Whedon says. “Let’s just investigate that.”

 

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post #35 of 93
1/14/12 at 12:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by wadew1 View Post

If you read the rest of the article, it says Cap isn't the main character

 



So Captain America is the everyman surrogate character the audience views the story through?

 

What's weird about that is that I can actually buy that.  Nice touch Mr Whedon.

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post #36 of 93
1/14/12 at 2:24pm

It really does work.  He's basically the newborn baby of the group surrounded by cynical, jaded, hardened adults.

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post #37 of 93
1/14/12 at 2:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Bain View Post



So Captain America is the everyman surrogate character the audience views the story through?

 

What's weird about that is that I can actually buy that.  Nice touch Mr Whedon.


 

Don't go giving the man too much credit, it's not like he invented the trope. He won't even be the first guy to do it with this character.

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post #38 of 93
1/14/12 at 3:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny View Post


 

Don't go giving the man too much credit, it's not like he invented the trope. He won't even be the first guy to do it with this character.


fair enough.  Literally all I know about Captain America is from the movie though (and from a couple of Spidey comics he cameos in) so my ignorance informed my statement.

 

I know it's a well used theme, but to have the "serum enhanced super being" be the everyman seemed new to me, because of my ignorance of the usage of the character.

 

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post #39 of 93
1/14/12 at 3:31pm

Oh, I get it, and that's fine. Of course, despite being something of the world's most pleasant roid freak, Capt. America is kind of a normal dude in terms of how he thinks and carries himself. He's a good, old-fashioned square, the reliable kind.

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post #40 of 93
1/14/12 at 4:39pm

My bet on who dies

 

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

Hawkeye. No one gives a shit about a Hawkeye movie, an archer would probably be pretty useless to a point, and I'll bet he develops a thing with the Widow, so his death would give her character the depth that Johansson and the writers have failed to do thus far.

 
Plus, Renner's attached to a few franchises at this point, and its likely his schedule won't always allow for "Drop Everything For Marvel" cameos.
 
Also, the "lone morals" slots on the Avengers could go to any number of rotating heroes in sequels.

 

 

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post #41 of 93
1/14/12 at 4:49pm

Big fat fuckin' potential spoiler.  Seriously.  Don't bitch when you willingly click! 

 

 

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

My cousin lives in NYC and stumbled upon the set.  She watched them filming for a few hours so that her kid could meet them.  From what she told me, it looked like they were filming the end of the movie where Thor and Loki leave Earth together.  All of the Avengers were there in plain clothes save for Thor and Loki, who were in Asgard gear, so I doubt any of them are going to bite it.  I don't think any of them are going to die.  I can't remember if she saw Coulson there or not...

 

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post #42 of 93
1/14/12 at 4:57pm

Wait, wait, wait. WAIT.

 

People like Coulson? Seriously?

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post #43 of 93
1/14/12 at 5:02pm

Sure, Clark Gregg brings a nice, straightforward, and scrupulous "everyman" charm to the character. It's a nice little lynchpin to have among a group of guys who fly around in power suits, who come from a lineage of interstellar Aryans, and who turn into giant, green neanderthals.

 

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post #44 of 93
1/14/12 at 5:04pm

But like him enough to care if he lives or dies? Really?

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post #45 of 93
1/14/12 at 5:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteboy Jones View Post

But like him enough to care if he lives or dies? Really?



They'd be more upset over his death than Hawkeye's, I imagine.

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post #46 of 93
1/14/12 at 5:08pm

"The Specialist" won me over. I don't think anyone's ranking him as their new favourite character or anything, but we're sufficiently engaged with him.

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post #47 of 93
1/14/12 at 5:11pm

I may not really care for Marvel movies anymore, but I still recognize that Gregg is a strong enough actor to do a lot with very little. He's like the Moneypenny of these films. No one wants to see Moneypenny get killed (at least not before she gets to show Bond what he's been missing for over a half a century).

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post #48 of 93
1/14/12 at 5:55pm

Potentially debunking Harley...

 

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

I knew someone who did some location scouting for "Avengers" in NYC - or, as it was referred to, "Group Hug." And apparently there was a LOT of stuff shot in NYC, first and second unit, that was never going to be used.

 
He did show me some rough footage of a Hulk rampage through Penn Station, and THAT was pretty goddamned awesome.

Also, I kind of can't stand Clark Gregg. I don't think he's as funny as he thinks he is, and the character of Coulson is so flippant and obnoxious that I find it extremely hard to believe he'd be one of SHIELD's finest. That stupid short where he does the world's least convincing martial arts didn't help.

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post #49 of 93
1/14/12 at 6:11pm

He should be playing it more like his character from Sports Night, but I like the character.  More so from the first Iron Man than from Iron Man 2 though.

 

And yeah, the short in the store was kinda painful.

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post #50 of 93
1/14/12 at 6:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabe T View Post

Potentially debunking Harley



How fucking dare you.

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