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Sequels that (attempt to) invalidate predecessor plot points

post #1 of 86
Thread Starter 

Sometimes sequels answer questions the original movie left open or ambiguous. Sometimes they send a character in a direction that doesn't allow wiggle room. Even worse, some sequels retroactively change details from the earlier movie.

 

Bear in mind, in my opinion, a sequel can never truly invalidate an earlier movie. If I want to watch Halloween 4 as a movie in of itself, it doesn't matter that H20 negates its existence. Better yet, most people like to act like the later Halloween movies don't even happen. Personal Continuity reigns above all else. This is a thread, instead, designed to point out specific examples of in-story invalidation, and speculate on why the filmmakers went down that route. 

 

For example, American Psycho 2 *spoilers ahoy*: truly a horrendous cash-in, but it's noteworthy in that it confirms Patrick Bateman's murders whereas the original movie left it ambiguous. Mila Kunis' character is, in fact, a victim of Patrick that manages to overpower him, kill him, and then later adopt his modus operandi. *end spoilers* 

 

Another is the subtle, possible subplot in Poltergeist that Dana is pregnant. Whether or not that's what the filmmakers intended, Poltergeist II leaves no doubt that she wasn't, as it's a year later and Dana is now off at college. No mention of baby. The absence of Dana can be chalked up to Dominique Dunne's murder, and an illegitimate baby wouldn't have added anything to the plot.

 

 

 

post #2 of 86
HIGHLANDER 2:

Zeist? Aliens? What?
post #3 of 86

Haha..Highlander 2 was the first film that came to mind.

 

Luke & Leia being siblings decimated the romantic angle established in the first two Star Wars.

post #4 of 86
Thread Starter 

Highlander 3 is even better: the second movie says Connor's wife died of cancer, whereas the third says she died in a car crash. 

 

Who says reboots are a modern thing...

post #5 of 86

I came here to post Highlander 2 and was roundly beaten to it. It really is the gold standard of sequel fuckery, though.

post #6 of 86

Would The Matrix Reloaded count here?  Or is that seen more as an thematic expansion of what was in the first film?

post #7 of 86

Aliens and it's giant insect queen?

post #8 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanCE View Post

Aliens and it's giant insect queen?



Only if you go by the deleted scene from the first film.  Scott never fully established the xenomorph's breeding cycle, so the queen in Aliens doesn't really invalidate anything we saw in Alien.

post #9 of 86

Hamlet 2

post #10 of 86

On Her Majesty's Secret Service.

 

For 5 movies, Bond is Scottish & then suddenly he's Australian? Tha fuck...?!

post #11 of 86

The Matrix sequels do deflate the idea of 'The One' after the first movie makes it into this quasi-messianic title, but whether you think that invalidates the first film is really a question of personal interpretation. It doesn't really contradict anything and is as valid a direction to take the story in as any (In fact, IMO it's one of the sequels' most interesting aspects).

 

So yeah, I'd say more thematic expansion that any kind of contradiction/retconning.

post #12 of 86

I never understood how the hell Ms. Kensington was actually a Fembot in "Austin Powers: The Spy Who Shagged Me."

post #13 of 86

Like a violent crime, I try to blot that film from memory, but isn't that the joke? That it's a completely nonsensical way to move Powers onto the next girl?

post #14 of 86

Jaws 2, 3, & 4

 

The shark was killed in the first one. How many "Jaws" sharks were there? And the 4th one wanted revenge?!

post #15 of 86

Son of Jaws.

post #16 of 86

Since Robocop 2 can't seem to figure out a natural progression for the character, it just repeats the same "Am I man or machine?" dilemma, effectively invalidating Murphy's arc from the first film.

post #17 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanCE View Post

Son of Jaws.

 

When, in the first Jaws, did the shark ever have time to get married & have a kid?

post #18 of 86



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanCE View Post

Son of Jaws.



Brother-in-Law of Jaws

Distant Cousin of Jaws

Revenge of Jaws' Neighbor, Mako

Congressman of the Jaws's: He Heard Their Cries

post #19 of 86
This one's a little bit iffy, but I never understood why Linda Fiorentino was just excised from the story of Men in Black 2. All that is given is that she couldn't handle it, even though the first film made clear that she was made to be a (wo)Man in Black.
post #20 of 86

Same thing was done for Megan Fox in Transformers 3.

"Last girlfriend was a bitch."

"Yeah."

The end.

post #21 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim K View Post

This one's a little bit iffy, but I never understood why Linda Fiorentino was just excised from the story of Men in Black 2. All that is given is that she couldn't handle it, even though the first film made clear that she was made to be a (wo)Man in Black.



Likely because she and Tommy Lee Jones didn't get along, and as I understand it, she's difficult to work with in general.

 

post #22 of 86

Buckaroo Banzai Against the World Crime League.

 

I can't believe what they did with that one. I mean, fuck. What a way to ruin a great film.

post #23 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Workyticket View Post

The Matrix sequels do deflate the idea of 'The One' after the first movie makes it into this quasi-messianic title, but whether you think that invalidates the first film is really a question of personal interpretation. It doesn't really contradict anything and is as valid a direction to take the story in as any (In fact, IMO it's one of the sequels' most interesting aspects).

 

So yeah, I'd say more thematic expansion that any kind of contradiction/retconning.


That Matrix Saga discussion/debate/defense is in the post really, aint it.

 

 

post #24 of 86

Leatherface goes from being gutted and blown up in Texas Chainsaw Massacre 2 to walking with a slight limp in part III. Wolverine ain't got shit on those healing powers.

post #25 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny View Post




Likely because she and Tommy Lee Jones didn't get along, and as I understand it, she's difficult to work with in general.

If they'd have replaced her with Catherine Keener I probably wouldn't have noticed.

314 314
post #26 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Decade View Post

Luke & Leia being siblings decimated the romantic angle established in the first two Star Wars.



[Nitpicking] Luke and Leia romance is really only in the first film. EMPIRE already handles their relationship in a more family-like manner and portrays the romance between Han and Leia instead [/Nitpicking]

 

post #27 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Benenson View Post


[Nitpicking] Luke and Leia romance is really only in the first film. EMPIRE already handles their relationship in a more family-like manner and portrays the romance between Han and Leia instead [/Nitpicking]


Leia_luke_kiss.jpg

What kind of family did you grow up in, fella?

post #28 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rain Dog View Post


That Matrix Saga discussion/debate/defense is in the post really, aint it.

 

 



Ah, true.

 



Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim K View Post


If they'd have replaced her with Catherine Keener I probably wouldn't have noticed.
314 314



I'll tell ya who would've noticed: MY PANTS, hurr hurr hurr...

 

post #29 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny View Post

Since Robocop 2 can't seem to figure out a natural progression for the character, it just repeats the same "Am I man or machine?" dilemma, effectively invalidating Murphy's arc from the first film.


What about John McClane being on the outs with his wife at the beginning of "Die Hard With a Vengeance" after the second film clearly establishes they're in a health marriage as a result of his arc from the first movie?

 

"She's heard me say, 'I love you,' a million times, but she's never heard me say, 'I'm sorry.' I want you tell her that John said that he was sorry."

post #30 of 86

And then he's divorced in Die Hard 4.  Ha.

post #31 of 86

Ghostbusters 2. The save the world. Everyone with a tv could see that its not just some lazer light show. Walter Peck was covered with a ton of Mashmellow goo. Yet they get sued as frauds

post #32 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Decade View Post


Leia_luke_kiss.jpg

What kind of family did you grow up in, fella?



 

You got me there, so lets put it this way: the dynamic is already shifting in EMPIRE. That screenshot is early on, by the end Leia has declared her love for Han.

post #33 of 86
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny View Post

Since Robocop 2 can't seem to figure out a natural progression for the character, it just repeats the same "Am I man or machine?" dilemma, effectively invalidating Murphy's arc from the first film.



I always viewed it as by the end of the first movie Robocop believes himself to be Murphy, but by the end of the second film he's accepted that he's human but not Murphy, an entirely new person. Nice subversion never picked up by any of the later iterations on the character. 

post #34 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Benenson View Post



[Nitpicking] Luke and Leia romance is really only in the first film. EMPIRE already handles their relationship in a more family-like manner and portrays the romance between Han and Leia instead [/Nitpicking]

 



Except she kisses her brother in front of Han (yes, to make Han jealous, but she kisses her brother). 

Laugh it up fuzzball.

post #35 of 86

STAR TREK II: THE WRATH OF KHAN

 

Spock is dead, yet it ends on a high note.  He is sent off with great fanfare and everyone says goodbye.  Kirk is alive and invigorated.  Young.  

 

McCoy: He's not really dead. As long as we remember him. 
Kirk: It's a far, far better thing I do than I have ever done before. A far better resting place that I go to than I have ever known. 
Carol Marcus: Is that a poem? 
Kirk: No. Something Spock was trying to tell me. On my birthday. 
McCoy: You okay, Jim? How do you feel? 
Kirk: Young. I feel young. 

 

Cut to:

 

STAR TREK III: THE SEARCH FOR SPOCK

 

All that happy shit is out the window.  Everyone is melancholy and sad.  Kirk has a long soliloquy about how he's left the best part of him behind.

post #36 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny View Post

Since Robocop 2 can't seem to figure out a natural progression for the character, it just repeats the same "Am I man or machine?" dilemma, effectively invalidating Murphy's arc from the first film.

 

Reminds me of another sequel inconsistency. In the first film, Lewis explains to Murphy how his wife moved away and started over. In the sequel, she apparently lives close enough for him to stalk her in between work shifts as she is "filing a lawsuit against OCP".

 

 

post #37 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Decade View Post


Leia_luke_kiss.jpg

What kind of family did you grow up in, fella?


isn't she only doing it to make Han jealous though (as Dr Cyclops already said)?  OK, Luke gets off on it but to be fair he doesn't know she's his sister at this point.

 

Didn't the Transformers sequels throw shit out of the window willy nilly plot wise?  I only saw the first and third one but that cube thing isn't in the third one and ... actually, fuck it I really don't care about any kind of continuity in those flicks

 

post #38 of 86

Psycho 2! Mother isn't really his mother, she's his aunt!

post #39 of 86

Superman Returns ditched movies three and four. However, pretty sure "Supergirl" is still part of that continuity.

post #40 of 86

Terminator 2 - The future isn't written. It can be changed.

Terminator 3 - Nope. Only postponed. 

 

 

 

 

post #41 of 86

halloween-5-dr-loomis-burned-face.jpg

post #42 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by User_32 View Post

Terminator 2 - The future isn't written. It can be changed.

Terminator 3 - Nope. Only postponed. 

 

 

 

 



I'm not sure this should "count", as it's not as if they're changing the previous events and hoping the audience won't notice.  For starters, T2 invalidates T1's rules on time travel as much as T3 does to its immediate predecessor.  T2 is just a better movie, and its change is less horribly depressing, so it gets a pass from most people.  But more importantly, the push and pull between free will and predestination is very much at the forefront of what these movies are about, and the revolving takes on which trumps the other are supposed to be counterpoints to another.

 

One thing that is a simple retcon is that given the timelines of the first two movies, John was apparently born 3-4 years old.  No wonder Sarah Connor went a bit nuts between films; that delivery must have been hellish.

post #43 of 86

"Back to the Future, Part II." Despite being unable to make a simple, sarcastic analogy ("Make like a tree and get out of here!"), Biff Tannen is somehow intuitive enough to be able to operate the DeLorean time vehicle with no instruction whatsoever.

post #44 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bradito View Post

"Back to the Future, Part II." Despite being unable to make a simple, sarcastic analogy ("Make like a tree and get out of here!"), Biff Tannen is somehow intuitive enough to be able to operate the DeLorean time vehicle with no instruction whatsoever.


I'm a bit more concerned that after spending 3 movies desperately trying to make Marty and the audience understand the dangers of altering the past, Doc ends the trilogy cheerfully careening around the timeline with the woman he snatched from history's chopping block and their Children That Should Not Be.

post #45 of 86

From a thematic standpoint, killing off Newt and Hicks in Alien 3 completely invalidates their survival at the end of Aliens. It was fucks with me in the back of my mind when I watch part 2 now. Like, what's the fucking point Hicks? You're just going to bite it in the end anyways.

post #46 of 86

But for the themes of Alien 3, their deaths are absolutely necessary.

post #47 of 86

KARATE KID: Isn't Elizabeth Shue amazing?! Class difference be damned! Love conquers all!

 

KARATE KID 2: Elizabeth Shue is a slut! She fucked off with some football player AND wrecked my car! Let's go to Japan!

post #48 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post

But for the themes of Alien 3, their deaths are absolutely necessary.



True, but I have some real issues with the creative direction of that film. Especially considering all the more appealing turns pre-production went through before settling where they did.

post #49 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwartz View Post


I'm a bit more concerned that after spending 3 movies desperately trying to make Marty and the audience understand the dangers of altering the past, Doc ends the trilogy cheerfully careening around the timeline with the woman he snatched from history's chopping block and their Children That Should Not Be.


Well, Doc does say, "The future is what you make of it, so make it a good one." I guess that means you can alter time as long as you don't gamble.

post #50 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by roboTimKelly View Post



True, but I have some real issues with the creative direction of that film. Especially considering all the more appealing turns pre-production went through before settling where they did.



but then you're just rehashing "Ripley as a mother" again, which was well covered.

 

Unless they went the DHC route and had Newt waking up alone, growing up, the Alien terror happening and THEN Ripley turning up (for part 4) and you having the whole "abandonment" issue,  it's pretty redundant.

 

I've always admired the brass balls taken to kill two very popular characters like that, without even a second of screen time.

 

Plus you then get Dutton's nice eulogy :)

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