HAYWIRE Discussion

I didn't know about ANY of this.  I was always interested, but I gotta see this now.  ESPECIALLY for the David Holmes part.

Except in that clip we saw last week where Channing Tatum is fucking her up in that diner until a couple of the other patrons decide to help Gina out.

I'm stoked to hear you dig it though Gabe.

I'm absolutely stoked for this. Soderbergh is one of my consistently favourite directors, Carano is the real deal and sexy as hell and the male supporting cast is good to excellent. The only thing that could make this more anticipated would be if this had been scripted by Mamet as a follow up to Spartan - Dobbs' CV notiwthstanding.

Also, I must own the poster.

I saw this last night and it's very fun. It's kind of an arty exploitation film.

Carano can't really act. At least, no more than Schwarzenegger. But, she's not called on to do a lot of that. Rather, she's kind of the silent type that kicks ass. And a lot of it. I think Soderbergh is making a deliberate statement on the viability of the action star as she kicks the ass of pretty boy actor's actors like Fassbender and McGregor. There's a time for acting and there's a time for asskicking and sometimes there's no substitute for the latter. I don't think it's a coincidence that the antagonists consist of acclaimed actors like Fassbender, Banderas, and McGregor, while Bill Paxton is her father.

I love how Soderbergh shoots action in this. It's Bourne without the shakey cam. And it's refreshing as hell. Plus, it wouldn't surprise me if the sound mix has the punches turned up louder than the gunshots.

All that said, I think there are a few issues with the movie. Despite being short, I think the pace lags in the second half some. And it never really builds to a climax, although that may be Soderbergh's point. I don't think it's completely satisfying as an art film or as an exploitation film, which might hurt it to an extent with audiences, but it's certainly its own unique beast.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bucho 

 

 

Except in that clip we saw last week where Channing Tatum is fucking her up in that diner until a couple of the other patrons decide to help Gina out.

 

I'm stoked to hear you dig it though Gabe.

That scene looks like a bit of a fake-out...dude gets the jump on her and we think "oh, she's not really that tough". But it becomes clear as the movie progresses that she could've eventually taken him out without help. The Fassbender sneak attack rabbit-punch from the trailer comes to mind, and we know how that ends...

I have a very real fear of a deluge of Gina Carano / Wonder Woman fancasting reigning down on us all. CHUD's review will be on Friday. Seriously though, see it. 

They liked both the movie and Carano, but I loved the AV Club's quip that she has Cynthia Rothrock's career ahead of her.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EvilTwin 

It's Bourne without the shakey cam. 

IM SEEING THIS

Got invited to a free screening of this yesterday and couldn't make it.  FUCK!  I'm only mad because I'm broke.

Just read that they dubbed Carano's voice for the whole movie.  Damn, was she that terrible?

That "want people to separate her fighter persona and the character" excuse sounds like total BS.  Just another way of saying, "She couldn't deliver her lines convincingly on the day of."

Though, at first, I thought the story was saying that someone else ended up dubbing her voice.

Devin just posted his positive review of the film.

He says Carano has got the looks and the undeniable presence, but not the acting skills.  For this movie, he says that's OK.

I haven't read the review, but the performance doesn't require much more than Seagal-level chops. She could be Laurence Olivier reborn, but we were never going to be able to tell outta this film alone.

But then there's also the fact that most of her co-stars are really good actors/stars.  Almost as if Soderbergh was stacking the deck against her... only to have her destroy the decks.  Hehehe

Another school of thought would be to surround your newbie with better actors and hope she fades in instead of standing out. It works here, and she holds her own in a could of scenes with McGregor & Douglas. But her looks also let her get away with a lot.  

Just saw it tonight.

Gina Carano is, in every way, a physical equal and female superior to Seagal and Van Damme (no offense to those guys), especially on an acting level, and she's just one of the reasons why this is Steven Soderbergh's best film since Traffic: think Point Blank if Marvin was able to almost squeeze a man's eyes out with his thighs. Seeing Soderbergh's aesthetic abilities applied to what could have been Generic New Millennium Action Movie #736 married with his more esoteric sensibilities subverts expectations that it's sub-direct-to-video trash, but Soderbergh and the great Lem Dobbs have ensured it's a classy film that reminds us the spirits of those guys are alive and well.

I hope to hell Gina Carano's got a hell of a career kicking ass ahead of her because she's great in it. Having that many classy actors (Douglas, Fassbender, Banderas, MacGregor, Paxton) makes it a bit tight with the running time, but every moment they get we savor. And hey, Channing Tatum is convincing as a gym-regular, hard-drinkin' douchebag, and if anything, this may be the year we begrudgingly find out that hey, this guy ain't so bad.

You guys gotta get to this movie, or Gina Carano will go all Jason Voorhees on you and crush your head with her thighs. But you'd like that, wouldn't you?

Saw Gina on Conan. She's pretty, but she's also pretty "butch". I bet her vagina could be used as a cigar cutter.

In the last ten to fifteen minutes or so, where she repeatedly sneaks up on her betrayers and beats the tobacco juice out of them, I think the title could just as well have been Gina Carano is Right Behind You. It's probably the most repetitious part of the movie, but that's severe nitpicking of the highest order since Haywire remains on the rails at that point and the entire film is just. So. Good.

This is an economical, efficient, brutal action film that's all about framing the fight and chase sequences as straightforwardly as possible so as to avoid introducing chaos into the choreography. Haywire's action hurts. When someone gets thumped, you feel it. The audience audibly took a shark intake of breath when

It's powerful stuff, and the kind of violence I look for in action films. Vicious, but not graphic. Crisp. Not messy.

Carano's the real thing. If we ever want to talk about action heroines again, we'll always, always, always come back to her work here. She's tougher than any of the men here-- though Fassbender's debonair Irish agent and Channing Tatum come close-- but she manages to remain feminine at the same time. I tend to feel that when women are used as action heroes, they either cross genders completely and are simply treated as men with boobs, or they go overboard on femininity to the point of fetishism. Carano falls into neither category. She's a woman. She's an ass-kicker. She probably has to out-match the men who dominate her industry because to be their equal isn't enough to thrive in her line of work. Why is Kenneth so afraid Kane will take all of his business with her? Because she's just better than every dude in the business.

I'm a fan. I won't say her acting is sublime or revelatory but it's better than serviceable considering what the role calls for. Kane's a tank, not one to express emotion much, but we get small glimpses of her every once in a while that show her to be a bit more complete than her tough exterior lets on. It's above-average stuff for the genre. Again, not an amazing actress, but far better than I'd anticipated.

In the realms of ass-kicking she far exceeds the high expectations I had for her. She's great. She should do stuff like this more often. Frankly, I buy her as a force of covert reckoning more than most men served up as action stars lately.

I often raise an eyebrow when I hear of more artistic filmmakers trying their hand at action. Soderbergh's so unconstrained by genre that I never really batted an eye, and he doesn't disappoint. Haywire feels like a Soderbergh film in all the right ways.

With the Oceans movies done, I wouldn't mind a Mallory Kane series with Soderburg's stash of leading men as foils for her.   Imagine George Clooney in something like this.

Carano's acting wasn't the best but she has an awesome game face.   That scene at the end with Kenneth was awesome because of her "Ima gonna kick your ass now" face.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HunterTarantino 

Just saw it tonight.

 

Gina Carano is, in every way, a physical equal and female superior to Seagal and Van Damme (no offense to those guys), 

Wow, we totally agree. Pretty cool:

http://www.chud.com/81201/review-haywire/

Saw this tonight, I've nothing to say that hasn't already been mentioned. But I will echo the support for her acting, she's really not bad at all. She's certainly better than Statham or Jet Li. She's an action star. I hope this doesn't get a sequel, but just gets her another, equally fun film.

Great, movie.

She's on par with Statham in the acting department.   My hope is she has a great career because of this film but I fear we've seen the best movie she'll ever be in with Haywire.

Copied from the comments section because I figure I might get a more sensible reply from the boards. Is this a flash in a beautifully crafted pan? Frankly if the world is finally able to uncover and accept a credible female action star, and she has enough ability in front of the camera not to traffic bullets for naysayers, it's about bloody time.

She's WELL above Statham, but this particular script didn't call for anything more. Statham is rank cheese. I'm sure she could do fine. I sort of feel like there's a level of misogyny knocking about in the arguments that she's not that good, because I'm fucking certain if this was a male action star, we wouldn't even mention it.

She's got charisma, she got timing, she doesn't look uncomfortable, which can't be said for a lot of action stars. Even when she's next to proper actors, it doesn't matter, they're there to ham it up and make her look grounded.

Originally Posted by HarleyQuinn22 

Just read that they dubbed Carano's voice for the whole movie.

Had no inkling of this whatsoever when viewing, so major props to the sound people on this.

I think Soderbergh is playing with something here beyond exploring action or doing a stylistic exercise. "You shouldn't think of her as a woman." That line is so loaded it's not even funny. I still have to collect and process all my thoughts, but I think Soderbergh has something to say about our perception of women who kick ass.

But even if it is just a style exercise, it's a great one. Short, sweet, and to the punch. Liked it a lot.

And I love that there's an in joke in the movie where Soderburg basically tells studios, "You want your Wonder Woman, well here she is."

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarleyQuinn22 

Just read that they dubbed Carano's voice for the whole movie.  Damn, was she that terrible?

The impression I got was that she wasn't dubbed, but tweaked. It's still her voice but Soderbergh altered it in post for something deeper and throatier.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeanCE 

She's WELL above Statham, but this particular script didn't call for anything more. Statham is rank cheese. I'm sure she could do fine. I sort of feel like there's a level of misogyny knocking about in the arguments that she's not that good, because I'm fucking certain if this was a male action star, we wouldn't even mention it.

People mentioned it about Schwarzenegger when he was building his resume all the time.

Gabe T, I didn't enjoy Haywire...At All!  Hopefully Gina Carano will be in a...Better film next time.

God that makes me a bunch of happy quivers.

I've also got to say that this is the lean female-lead action film that I've practically been asking for since at least my late teens, and it absolutely didn't disappoint me whatsoever. No fat, good fights, and a lead performance that's basically all physicality. Indeed, I don't know if I'd ever be able to buy Carano in Sense and Sensibility* but for this role she's a machine, and practically makes the entire cast of The Expendables look like a bunch of posturing amateurs.

What's also interesting to me is that Soderbergh doesn't back away at all from the fact that she's a WOMAN who's a bigger shitkicker than the guys around her, and almost revels in that aspect, as compared to James Cameron who seemingly has a hard time being able to make his heroines both feminine and badasses. Sure she'd prefer going all sensible in a tactical outfit and such, but she's also got absolutely no problem with murdering your ass while wearing a lovely dress* and not give a shit.

Now if we could just somehow get a sequel with her and Zoe Bell punching guys around the world.

*Unless Sense and Sensibility was re-titled "Sense and facepunching" which I'd also probably see.

*Seriously the dress to me makes practically the biggest statement in the entire movie, at least to my eyes.

I tend to respond best to films that really evoke emotions.  As such, Soderbergh's more aesthetically distancing films usually leave me cold.  Haywire almost does that for most of its running time if not for Carano and the rest of the cast.  I never really felt all that engaged by what was going on.  Most of the fights were distant and clinical.  

But in the end, I enjoyed myself.  Despite not being all that engaged by what was going on, I really appreciated how sparse the film was.  It picked a direction and stuck to it.

I was a little confused by Arangano's role.  For a guy that just happened to be there to help, he was cooperative in a very weird way.  He doesn't really question anything she says or does and just goes along with it.  For a while, I thought there would be more to him.

The special guest appearance by the deer really made my heart skip!

Lauren... pairing Carano and Zoe Bell?  Genius.

I noticed they actually hinted earlier beforehand why Kenneth sells out Mallory in the film.

This movie is an early contender for the thighs of the year Oscar.

With just a montage of them punching people in the face for about an hour and a half.

Carano is a little stiff, but I think the biggest flaw of the movie is Lem Dobbs' script. It feels surprisingly pedestrian, especially the dialogue. The plot is so cliched that it takes a lot from the cast and Soderbergh to make it work. The actions scenes are terrific and Carano is a force to be sure; I love how believable she is in the actions sequences. I love how the lack of score forces you to take in every punch and bruise. If you cast this movie with most waify Hollywood starlets and it would totally fall flat, so in the end it's important that Carano is in the role, which forgives her occasional stiff delivery. I love how voluptuous she is, her body and curves are just out of control, all that combined with her intense strength. And I loved how her being an amateur actor surrounded by attractive Hollywood it-guys of today and yesterday is sort of a meta-commentary on her being totally rogue in the movie, yet more than capable. The shot of her running up behind McGregor left me cackling in the theater. I hope she has a long action career, she deserves it. And I'd have no problem with a Haywire 2.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parker 

 I love how voluptuous she is, her body and curves are just out of control, all that combined with her intense strength.

YUP.

Also... Fassbender as an MI6 agent?  Nice to see him doing a James Bond try-out!  Only to get Onatopped by Carano's thighs.

I was also having a nice cackle at the sight of McGregor repeatedly running away from her on the beach.  He knows he has no shot and will try to climb rocks to get away from her.

Also, the perfect ending with Banderas.  "Shit."

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaurenOrtega 

 

*Unless Sense and Sensibility was re-titled "Sense and facepunching" which I'd also probably see.

 

'Sense and Socked Senseless'

Looks like the lip-biting acting is something she just does naturally!

I think Carano just took the "Intense Running" prize away from Tom Cruise.   She just looks a little more determined to beat the speed of sound than he does.

I dunno.  I think Cruise still wins due to his batshit insanity.  He's gritting his teeth and looking all intense.

When Carano runs, she looks like she's going for a brisk jog... to save up her strength to destroy faces.  She's controlling her breathing and relaxing her face.

That was the interesting thing about the action in this film.  Very little of the action sequences were sweetened up.  It felt like the responsibility of bringing it placed solely on Carano's shoulders.  Soderbergh's decision was to just step back and show it.  Lots of action movies amplify the sounds of hits to a ridiculous degree to make it feel like you're feeling the impact in your head.  Soderbergh has the hits mixed so that it feels like you're watching from a distance (unless my showing's sound wasn't up to snuff).

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcnooj82 

YUP.

 

Also... Fassbender as an MI6 agent?  Nice to see him doing a James Bond try-out!  Only to get Onatopped by Carano's thighs.

 

I was also having a nice cackle at the sight of McGregor repeatedly running away from her on the beach.  He knows he has no shot and will try to climb rocks to get away from her.

 

Also, the perfect ending with Banderas.  "Shit."

 

 

 

'Sense and Socked Senseless'

 

Looks like the lip-biting acting is something she just does naturally!

Okay, I'm getting a divorce and moving to Vegas. That last gif is the sexiest thing I've seen in decades.

Love that. Felt like Bond stepping out of the tux and getting back in the proper outfit. Though she pulls off the leather jacket better than any of them could. Yowza!

Seriously.......and it's like the film recognized that too. Whole movie feels like Soderbergh practically fell in love, which I admittedly did as well.

I would pay so much money for that.

Probably based on your namesake(At least I'm hoping so with the avatar) but I'd kill to see her as a Westlake-inspired anti-heroine.

Americans.

Yeah, pretty much.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabe T 

Okay, D+ Cinemascore? Uh... WHAT?

 

That's far too harsh. It's easily a C.

How can a movie where there's a scene of Ewan MacGregor trying to scale a rock to get away from Gina Carano score a D.   That makes it a solid "B" all by itself.

I gave it a B-.