Dating Tips/Advice - Page 19

 

 

I had already redacted some other choice words based on your post above mine.  Ironically I think I actually mentioned a stick and nether regions as well. :)

 

I understand your place of reaction now a bit better and assure you I was joking based on a cliche.  If it had been anyone other than Art and his wit I probably wouldn't have said it to begin with.

We cool?

 

 

 

Pretty sure I came to that same conclusion first.  I'm hurt, Art.  Hurt.  ;)

 

We ALL cool. I'm satisfied with Blacky's conclusion (I mean..uh..yours). Thank you gentlemen (and the occasional lady) for sharing your attention, wit, & wisdom with me on this one.

 

"Now, I'm gonna go home and sleep with my wife!"

 

Amen brother. You're Beretta, you're Jack Foley, you're super fuckin cool.

 

You don't slink away with your tail between your legs, you walk out with the same wink and a smirk you walked in with.

 

 

Should of gone with your gut reaction. Just relax, and don't over think for now, and ...

 

DING DING DING..warning sign. Never ever try to have a serious relationship with an artist. They are unstable at best. Which explains why she wants to go back to school, mostly likely this "decision" is fleeting at best and will mostly likely change if it has not already. I've graduated from art school, I've dated my fair share of artist and while they can be fun, it's best to move on.   Having just moved to California a few years ago, I'm so very thankful that I've never had to date someone from here.  Being from the Midwest, it's just a totally different mindsets and life experiences.

 

Best of luck on your adventures Art!

Glad to see cooler heads have prevailed! Now let's all be glad that it was me - and only me - who gave the right advice. 

Art's a good guy. I easily understood that his proposed note came from a good place. But that doesn't make it a good idea.

 

While Harley continues to be the Queen of Common Sense in these parts, I do agree that all in love and war isn't always "this OR that."  And I agree even good people can send mixed signals. I think, though, unless they're someone who's earned a shitload of goodwill and patience, you go by actions. And patterns in those actions. If those actions say "Spending time with you is not a priority," go on that and move forward.

Yeah but you guys still seem to keep thinking this is about HER - as far as I can tell this is all about Art and leaving the situation feeling dignified and empowered - cause ya know, he's all that and shit..

Ha! Glancing at this girl's FB page, it turns out that she's buddies with Esme Bianco from Game Of Thrones.

 

Thinking about it now, I think I made such a big deal out of this one date because she's the prettiest girl I've ever gone out with and I'm TERRIFIED that I'll never get a shot with someone so lovely again. Hence the clamouring.

 

Stop listening to your dick then pal. He has a lot less pride and self respect than you do.

Stop going on her FB page.



Seriously know thyself, be true to thee, and you'll be alright. You'll find someone that will make you happy if you know what makes you happy. That doesn't mean matching on 100% of everything. I like differences, things to learn, and having a portion of your lives separate. Not lying, just having your own time doing things. Never lose what makes you unique.

Yeah, I'm thinking that I need to defriend her straight away.

 

No, I actually get that. And while it seems like sending her the last word is empowering, it's actually the opposite: it's giving power away. It's saying, "I'm still game to be with you even though you've shown no interest over the last few days/weeks/etc."

 

Totally understand this. When you seemingly land a really hot person, letting go can be a bitch. (Hence the reason a lot of really good looking guys are complete dicks to women.)

 

It's good to have standards WRT looks. But when you find the right one, you'll be amazed at how beautiful she is because of the great stuff inside. And she'll make this one look like the worst Photoshop job on Cosmo.

Art, defriend her. That will certainly do a lot more damage to her than you'd think would. If she has all these friends on there, which may be guys she's friended on there because she went out on dates with them, then this may be a point of pride for her. A "I shot you down, but I still have you as my friend on here, so you're just another notch on my belt." type thing.

 

I could be wrong about that, but defriending her anyway would be a good step for just moving on and going out with another girl. We're all pulling for ya, buddy!

Yeah, my gut is telling me loud & clear to defriend her. I will abide.

If you're putting in 100% and getting 0% back, it's time to move on.

 

Well, that is fucking evil.  I'm not interested in you, but hey, friend me so you can see me having a good time with other people that are NOT YOU, and get ready for status updates that will include my thoughts on dates with other guys.  So glad I'm in the 1% who is not on facebook.

Once you defriend her, expect a message from her in a few days.

 

Voodoo. That's your answer to everything.

One time this girl swore up and down she would call me one night to hang out. This was back when I had little experience with women and I totally held up this girl on a pedestal. She was beautiful, dangerous, far more experienced than me, and incredibly difficult to nail down, lest get some minor commitment out of. Of course, I never heard from her. 

 

I stewed, called her all sorts of dirty names, lamented my pathetic lot in life, imagined all the other people she was having fun with, all that shit that you do to yourself for no reason when you get jilted. 

 

So she comes over later in the week, bandaged to Hell, explaining she got t-boned by a drunk that night and her car was totaled, not to mention she lost hearing in one ear. Yeah, I felt like a grade-A prick. 

 

Little did I know that was merely the beginning of our two-year, soul-destroying calamity of a "relationship". Ah, memories. 

 

I guess what I'm saying is, don't take it so personal when they don't call. You never know, she could have dropped dead from an aneurysm. 

I think a lot of all this comes down to how much confidence you actually have in yourself. How much you actually like you and whether you feel deserving of nice things happening to you like ladies thinking you're it and a bit and wanting to play with your soft sticky out parts.

 

Forget projecting false confidence, try and get some of the real stuff.

 

When you know you're an okay guy, when you don't hate the dude you see in the mirror each morning, suddenly little rejections don't feed into some deeper world view that you're worthless and pathetic who nice things don't deserve to happen to, they're just little road bumps you can step over rather than mountains to climb.

 

I guess what I'm saying is we need to start liking ourselves before we can seem worthy of being liked by anyone else.

 

Maybe some journeys that need to be taken in this thread need to start with that level of introspection for a first step.

 

Eh, just thinking out loud.

Edited by The Rain Dog - 5/27/12 at 11:27pm

A bit late to the conversation, but a few things Art.

 

The worst thing people can do is think about dating.  Thinking inevitably leads to overthinking, which leads to bad judgement calls because you're operating with limited information.  

 

The biggest problem I find is that very few women (and men) are suitable partners, especially in southern California.  Emotionally, spiritually, sexually, psychologically, they have alot of issues they need to deal with and those issues tend to bleed into fairly standard and mundane everyday behavior like getting back to people.  So the other person starts to overanalyze what could be a character flaw in the other person, or a simple misunderstanding, or a grave problem that is out of that person's hands. 

 

I've dealt with girls who behave like she behaved and they tend to be either attention whores or unfocused cloud watchers who don't mean any harm, but stomp mudholes in people's hearts with regularity without realizing what they're doing.  Either way, it's best to make yourself available in phone number only.  If they want you, they will call.  If not, they wont, or they will and make excuses.  Facebook is just a constant reminder of failures with the opposite sex.  That's one of the reasons I ditched That site a few months ago.  

 

Anyway, some advice for next time you make a lunch date with someone.  Schedule something fun you will do either alone, or with someone else you like being around just before and just after the date, so when you get there, you will be coming off the high of the last activity and that natural energy will just radiate from your pores...and she'll pick up on it...and the time pressure of looking at your watch and having the next activity will let her know you are in demand and busy, a mover and a shaker to speak, so if she wants in, she has to stake her claim very quickly.  It also takes the pressure off of you to perform, because you already have something to look forward to very shortly.  It's a subtle psychological trick that works on you and your date simultaneously.  But don't be rude or insensitive about the time crunch, give the date all the attention it deserves and be sure and let her know you have somewhere to be at a certain time.  Is it crafty?  Sure.  Is it wrong?  No.  Try it.

 

Is it wrong that I read all this as if it was coming out of Budduskys mouth?...

 

 

IMO, if there's one cast-iron, written-in-stone, what-God-writes-when-he-pees-in-the-snow truth about dating and relationships, it's this right here.

 

Art, I don't have much to add apart from everyone else has been saying but I completely understand where you've been coming from. I've always been a chronic self-blamer when it's come to unsuccessful dating experiences, and used to feel that I had to send that 'one extra message' because I felt like I had to prove myself, or wasn't quite anything enough at the time of the date. But by doing that, even if you mean 'You should really think about seeing me again because I'm awesome', you're really just fishing for another reaction, any reaction, from someone you probably won't get it from. There are times when you want to put the ball in the other person's court, and times when you have to say, "Fuck it, I like the ball. I'm keeping it right here. You come and get it!"

 

Also, I think you've been way too hard on yourself about that date. first dates are awkward by their very nature, and nobody really knows what to do. We're trained to believe that we can control what happens - say the 'right' things, pick the 'right' venue, have the 'right' attitude - but in truth, we have much less control than we tell yourselves. Chemistry is king, and if it's there all it requires is a point of similarity or something you can both relate to, and it'll start working all on its own. It doesn't have to be a whiz-bang epic of a conversation, but at least a basic comfort with each other that's instinctual. My rule of thumb is, if you walk away from a date actually feeling like you had fun, then you usually know you're on the right track.

 

But it is difficult when you've trained low self-esteem into yourself over the years; trust me, I was the exact same and have only quite recently accepted the fact that it's not always your fault. From what you've told us this girl didn't seem too engaged from the start, and simply wasn't starting from a place of interest. And I agree with everyone else here: defriend her and don't look back. I've been on dates where it's become clear that the other person's seen it as some kind of social outing as opposed to having any kind of romantic potential, and it sounds like this the mindset this girl has. There are lots of people out there who use dating sites as a way of gathering social contacts, and some aren't entirely honest about their goals. Get her the hell off your Facebook - like the others have said, odds are she'll just be a reminder of something uncomfortable sitting there for no reason.

Yeah, defriend her. Nothing good comes of keeping exes on your FB. I had a lovely time with a perfectly wonderful woman who had her own baggage (as do we all) and I wasn't ready for it and handled it horribly, and just disappeared from the situation entirely. Meanwhile, our mutual friends got to witness her posting a complete hagiography of how terrible of a person I was coupled with how terrible I was in the sack (despite her praising me and our chemistry in bed being INCREDIBLE), and I didn't say boo about anything related to her despite there being a couple of instances which contributed to me bailing out. I wish things had gone differently because I was extremely fond of her and we could have had a great relationship (yeah, she was the gothy type Art mentions, we got on like a house on fire and didn't hate each other which was seemingly new to both of us), but it was just a really bad time in my life and she happened to show up right then. Either way, she finally defriended me a couple of weeks back and I still wish her the best. We do what we know at the time, even if it's not the most rational thing. We're all only human.

Respectfully, I think defriending her (at least right away) might be going a bit far.

 

A) It very well may provoke a reaction from her, but it won't be the kind of reaction you want.  Rather than being based on genuine interest, it'll be her guilt-tripping you over deleting her, OR trying to get you ensnared again to prove she's still "got it."

 

B) It may, in fact, specifically be an attempt to provoke a reaction from her on your part (whether or not you're consciously aware of it).  As I understand it, you left things at, "Hey, sorry you're so busy.  I'm putting the ball in your court, so get in touch when you have some free time (if you want)."  If you defriend her at this point, IMHO, it will come across as you either trying to take the ball back from her (just like sending her another message would be, but in a different way), or worse, as a "fuck you" gesture that will just give her an excuse to write you off and say, "I was right.  He was a jerk."

 

I'd give it a couple weeks, then defriend her.  If she hits you up and bitches about it, you can play it off, and basically say, "Oops, sorry.  I went through and did my annual culling of 'friends,' and I guess you didn't make the cut.'  That way it doesn't come across as specifically directed at her, and won't seem quite so petty.

 

Just my two cents.

You're overthinking it, Tony. And I don't think she means all that much to Art. Defriending her - now - is the way to go, combined with ignoring any further attempts at contact from her.

I may be.  It just seems passive-aggressive to me.  The 'defriending' is essentially taking an action, one that communicates a message all it's own (whether intended to do so or not).  Whereas simply not messaging her is not taking an action, but refraining from one.

 

Put it this way: not messaging her could mean that he's consciously making the choice not to message her (in order to retain his dignity, social leverage in the situation, or what have you); or it could just mean that he's busy, got other stuff going on in his life, and can't be bothered trying to maintain contact with someone who's not willing to carry their weight in the relationship, socially speaking.

 

Defriending her, on the other hand, is unquestionably a deliberate act on his part; she was on his mind, and he deliberately chose to defriend her.  If he was truly prepared to let go/walk away from the situation, it seems to me that such a gesture would be unnecessary.  It may be cathartic, I guess, but you have to wonder why he feels he needs that catharsis.  What does it hurt to let the girl languish on his friend list a little longer?  Unless he's afraid of the temptation, or needs the closure; in which case, I'd say he's still more caught up in the situation than he needs to be, and if the girl's got half a brain, I think she'll pick up on that.  (Not that her POV is of any importance, at this point, mind you; just throwing it out there).  

 

ETA: I don't think she means a great deal to him personally.  I just think it's possible that being rejected has engendered a 'Take That' impulse in Art, which the defriending (assuming she notices it) may unconsciously be meant to communicate.  Since he's already got the 'upper hand' (by choosing to walk away from the situation and leave the ball in her court), this other gesture seems unnecessary to me.

Agreed. Being determined to 'not look like a jerk' can be a slippery slope in dating, and can lead you to take responsibility for a relationship that a) isn't the kind you really want, and b) equally doesn't really work. From what Art has been saying it sounds like they got on okay but not exceptionally; not the best basis for extended contact/friendship. It's easy to say 'Let's keep in touch', but actually keeping in touch takes effort, and this girl hasn't had the best record on the effort front so far. Why keep someone around when they're showing pretty much no interest in being around?

So if you "defriend" someone then it tells them?  I didn't think it did that.  I know people change "in a relationship" to "not in a relationship" to make a point, but that shows up on their status thingy.

 

Unless she's the kind of girl that obsessively checks who her "friends" are, and as she has, as Art says, "lots of other male friends", she may not even notice.  In which case, good.  Time then to move on. If the only thing you are getting out of being "friends" is occasional updates that make you feel shit, why bother?

 

Facebook is yet another one of those things that makes me feel old.  Back in the day, you'd just not bother getting in touch with that person again (if you could help it).  Remove their number from your phone etc.  Nowadays everything is so fucking fraught because "so and so did something on Facebook" and "I'm friends with so and so and saw that.." and people take that shit mind-meltingly seriously.

 

From my own personal experience, I've been miserable as sin because I've tried to be the "good guy" and stay in touch with exes and it has never, ever worked out well.  "Best case" has been the shoulder to cry on after they've been dumped, worst case is just being ignored in general until some little road bump hits their lives, then they want support.  The relief I've felt when I've just severed those ties has been immense every time.

 

For this very reason I have no compulsion to "friend" anyone who I used to go out with.

 

Unfriend.  Move on.  Don't worry about coming across as a dick because you aren't, and you won't.

The modern stalker has a plethora of 3rd party apps that help enhance stalking methods on social networks! There are apps that tell you the following (and much more):

 

* Who is looking at your profile and how many times they look at it

* Anytime you are defriended and by whom 

* Anytime someone you mark goes from "in a relationship" to "single" 

 

Seriously. Fuck Facebook.

 

jesus.  Yes, fuck facebook.

On the other hand, Myspace is a ticket to make-out party city.

MySpace has gotten cooler since the days when I was on it, apparently.

 

Honestly though... normally the person isn't notified, but since I started back to school, there's not been a single instance where I've defriended a (local) person, and not had an awkward encounter with them later where they asked (awkwardly) why I was no longer on their Facebook.  You may not be terribly likely to run into this person on the street or what have you, but people DO notice.  And if they get the chance, they will usually call you on it.

Facebook itself does not notify you about any changes someone makes re: their connection to you (or vice versa). Only sketchy third party apps do that.

A massive problem I've got with dating is that everything goes really well and then I'll have one of my bleak, deep, dark depressive holes moments and just nuke any and everything around me. It's very, very hard to find someone, especially someone new, that can just deal with my bullshit as a person. It's happened, but I'm also old enough to realize that no sane person should HAVE TO deal with my brand of crazy when the "relationship" is new.

 

All that being said I think everyone is doing quite well. Especially you guapo (Art). The "gothy", "nerdy" types are what I tend to go for too but I think with my penis way more than you do so you've got a point right there. I'm just a sleazy bastard.

 

On to the Facebook thing. I use it only for customers and people that are friends of customers that want to get tattooed. I don't have it open for anyone to view and I like it that way. If they need me they'll find me and I don't use it for any sort of "romantic" social interaction. But I'm a hermit of some renown. 

 

You're a tattoo artist? Awesome. You any good?

 

I may have to make sure a Hawaiin stopover is part of my eventual Great American Adventure if y'are.

Yassir. If I'm good or not is probably a matter of opinion. I'm in Hawaii so I tend to do big japanese work. Sleeves, half sleeves, pants, full backs and I free hand ninety percent of my work. I've got a little solo shop space after losing faith in the street shop scene and as of right now I'm booked up until the end of August. If you plan a trip or find yourself in Hawaii hit me up and we'll go to some bars downtown, I can introduce you to some young ladies that will make you cry. But not in a "Crying Game" sort of way.

 

Holy hell dude, it'll be a few years in the planning, but thats a frikkin man date.

I'm not going anywhere brother, when you're ready I'll be around. And I'd extend the offer to a few of you other rotten bastards too. If you don't mind crashing on a couch and can handle, more thank likely, stoned, tattooed hostess girls wanting to rub your beard like a puppy then I'm St. Peter and these are the pearly gates.

 

I think Art and Jake could use an island vacation too. Don't be shy fellers, we share down here.

 

All joking aside I do know my way around pretty well and I wouldn't be against playing host if you give me notice to schedule around it.

 

Fair warning I don't run a tight ship at all and hanging out with my friends will probably involve way too much drinking, way too many girls that don't really give a fuck about love and somewhere in there the drunk tank or hospital...and maybe a Roy Orbison tattoo.

 

Holy sweet Jebus, it's the promised land!

 

I'm on my way Saint Pete!

 

Yup, this has happened to me.  I'd say Art should wait a couple weeks before defriending her because things could turn around.  She may get in touch and they might hit it off, with the past lunch date, ensuing confusion simply being a misunderstanding on his, her, or both their parts.  Defriending her now absolutely closes the door on any future contact and it's obvious Art likes her (if only a little).  If in a couple weeks, nothing happens, defriend her.  This is what I meant by overthinking dating.  No action should be taken now, because nothing has happened.  What was left on the table was "if you'd like to hang out, call me".  For all she knows, Art is living his life, and not waiting for her to do anything...she may like him, but is busy at the moment.  Defriending her now makes little sense to me because there is no conclusion to come to yet.  It's the definition of baggage.

 

A few years ago I met a cute girl at a bar.  I was drunk as shit, and we exchanged numbers.  After that she was dodgy as hell...flaky (we had a date, but at the last minute she told me she was having car trouble...I wanted to explode because this was after being dodgy before, I thought it was B.S. and she was some kind of attention whore), but I didn't defriend her and didn't blow her off.  I assumed nothing and took everything at face value, and honestly was busy with other things so I rarely thought about her.  CUT TO, one night I get a text from her saying she just went rock climbing and asked if she could swing by my place.  I let her take a shower and we walked to 7-11 to get a six pack.  After a few beers we ended up doing the nasty.  I hadn't been laid in a while so it was nice surprise.  And if I'd blown her off before, like I wanted to so badly, it wouldn't have happened.  She turned out to be not so much my type and we lost contact, but had a great night of pelvis bumping, so my point is valid I think.  I'm not saying Art should just use her for sex, but if a relationship isn't in a cards, there's nothing wrong with pelvis bumping.

So he should use it for sex?

 

You say that like it's a bad thing...

I just accepted my girlfriends Linkedin request, I hope this doesn't get complicated. 

If LinkedIn creates romantic friction, you're doing it wrong.

"Why didn't you share your work fax number with me....huh huh???"

 

I was considering giving Facebook a try, until I witnessed two co-workers get into a huge verbal fight about a picture post.  Apparently it was a group picture and one person removed their tag from it?  Huge fight, people were defriended, posts were unliked, and I think there may be a lawsuit as well. 

Well, after this weekend I decided I am moving in with Sam.  We went camping for Memorial Day with her family.  I got to meet everyone on her side and everyone was really nice.  Good sign when her father gives me nice cigar.  Camping thing was last minute for me, but I guess her parents called her up and insisted that we both come up for the weekend.

 

Saturday morning I get a call, it's my former in-laws and they want to know if I would come get my son from them.  They had a family emergency and since I was supposed to get my son Monday night, they didn't know if they would be back in time (had to go to a different state).  Sam's dad offered to give me a ride to get him (5 hour round trip), and when we got back, Sam and her mom had gone to the store and bought him his own sleeping bag and a bunch of squirt guns, water baloons and his own life jacket for when we went out on the boat.  Really fun time, really glad I went.

Congrats, mate. Sounds like you've stumbled into a good situation.