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SOUTHLAND Season 4

post #1 of 22
1/21/12 at 5:27pm
Thread Starter 

Does anyone else care about this show? Bueller? Bueller? 

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post #2 of 22
1/21/12 at 5:57pm

I watched a couple of episode back when it originally aired, but never kept up with it. The promos for it are intriguing, but I haven't bothered to track it down again. So you're a fan, I assume?

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post #3 of 22
1/21/12 at 6:26pm

I like the show, I thought the one officers pain killer addiction story line was solidly done last season.  The rookie character was a little too tv for me (brandon walsh joins the police force), but I like the way they started his storyline this season. Lou Diamond Phillips as the veteran officer may be interesting. Things happen a bit quickly and story lines can be rushed, but that can be said about most tv shows.

 

All in all, its better than the cop shows on the networks.

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post #4 of 22
1/22/12 at 1:30am

Easily one of my favorite shows on TV. Cancling it was the 2nd biggest mistake NBC made during the Conan/Leno debacle. The first being...you know...siding with Leno.

 

I love how brutal and honest this show is. Plus the little things. Like the aftermath of the shooting at the precinct, Sammy throwing up and both guys admitting to pissing themselves. Didn't really like Lydias story line in the premier and her changing partners again does kinda stink.

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post #5 of 22
1/22/12 at 4:10pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Singer View Post

I watched a couple of episode back when it originally aired, but never kept up with it. The promos for it are intriguing, but I haven't bothered to track it down again. So you're a fan, I assume?


Yeah, I'm not sure if it's on Netflix or Hulu, but I think you could probably jump in and catch up fairly easily. But it's pretty episodic, and beats your run-of-the-mill procedural. 

 

 

Fairly appealing cast, too - Regina King, Cudlitz, and Hatosy are aces. Ben McKenzie is a bit too boy scout, but it made for a nice compare/contrast between Sherman and Cooper, I thought. 

 

 

Any of you other guys now - is Chickie gone? I didn't see her in the morning briefing at all, and Lucy Liu's character seems to be her "replacement" as far as storyline is concerned. 

 

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post #6 of 22
1/22/12 at 4:14pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul755 View Post

I love how brutal and honest this show is. Plus the little things. Like the aftermath of the shooting at the precinct, Sammy throwing up and both guys admitting to pissing themselves. Didn't really like Lydias story line in the premier and her changing partners again does kinda stink.


Yeah, we had about 10 min left and we had to go off and do other stuff - so my wife and I are watching the last bit in the living room, kids are napping, and then during the shootout my 4 y.o. daughter wakes up and is going "what's going on on that show?" followed by her trying to watch as they find the body on the beach.

 

GREAT stuff, but we were figuring "wow, they've had some shit happen here in the premiere, probably just going to be setting stuff up for the rest of the season..." and WHOA.

 

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post #7 of 22
1/22/12 at 5:24pm
Thread Starter 

Oh, for Jacob, the write-up over at the AV Club boils down what's good about the show: 

 

 

 

 

Quote:

Other cop shows get more of the glory, but over three tumultuous seasons, TNT’s Southland—formerly NBC’s Southland, until it was dropped—has quietly proved itself a major player in the genre. It’s hard to tell why the show hasn’t done better in the ratings, since it’s in roughly the same league as greats like NYPD Blue and even, at its very best moments, The Wire. (I said roughly the same league.)

The show’s third season, which concluded almost a year ago, was its best: Rookie Ben Sherman (played by Ben McKenzie) finally earned his stripes, partly by working hard and partly by becoming the adult in his relationship with injured partner John Cooper (Michael Cudlitz). There was relatively surprising death and a strange betrayal, but season three also tied up pretty nicely, without much hanging as far as plot or loose ends.So the fourth-season premiere, “Wednesday,” could almost be the start of a new series. It reintroduces many of the main characters efficiently, catching up without retelling too much: McKenzie is now a P2, partnered with former Detective Sammy Bryant (played with edgy delight by the excellent Shawn Hatosy). Cudlitz had back surgery and apparently kicked his pill addiction. Detective Lydia Adams (Regina King) has a handsome new partner whose last job was shooting at Iraqis. And C. Thomas Howell returns as sort of sad comic relief—the loose cannon, sexist joker.

That leaves some room for new characters, and either Southland is a good enough show to attract film actors or Lucy Liu and Lou Diamond Phillips are slumming it.

 

As always, the show begins with the slightly cheesy but kinda effective freeze-frame and voiceover: McKenzie and Hatosy witness a man brutally beating a girl, and they give chase. Mid-jump, the show goes to black and white and the narrator talks about the horrors of being a cop in the most dangerous parts of L.A.: “Our worst nightmare is just their Wednesday.”

And then it’s on to the stories, which Southland has been remarkably good at since its beginning. LikeNYPD Blue—which Southland creator Ann Biderman wrote for—the show is easy to enjoy in individual slices, but also serves up great serials. That said, this episode didn’t offer any clues as to what a season-long story might be, but it did pack a bunch of great little plotlines into an hour. Almost too many...the little touches and real emotional conflicts make Southland far better than your average cop show. Where else would you see two tough patrolmen admitting to each other that they pissed themselves after a gunfight?

 

 

One thing that's great about it is that while you're pretty sure that they won't off any of the principals, you're not 100% sure, because they've had some really surprising plot turns in past seasons. 

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post #8 of 22
2/18/12 at 5:19pm
Thread Starter 

REALLY doing some great fleshing out of Cooper this season. 

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post #9 of 22
3/13/12 at 9:10pm

Fucking-A.

 

For almost any other show that would have been the Season Finale.

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

 They had better not kill off Sammy

 

 

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post #10 of 22
3/18/12 at 12:48pm
Thread Starter 

That was crazy. Though I have to admit that for whatever reason, this season just isn't getting it done - the crises they have feel so manufactured. Last season, Cooper hitting rock bottom was something that had been building for the entire series, so maybe that isn't a fair comparison, but this season seems like a placeholder - nothing really holds this season together thematically. 

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post #11 of 22
3/20/12 at 2:27pm
Thread Starter 

Hmmm, maybe they are more together than I thought...

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ben-mckenzie/southland-finale_b_1366762.html

 

 

 

Quote:
Ben is still working through the psychological trauma he experienced as a child when he saw his mother assaulted, But primarily, his actions are a direct result of his descent into nihilism, which is borne out of his inability to accomplish what he set out to do when he became a cop: make things better

 

 

I didn't necessarily see Ben becoming a nihilist, but it fits with his behavior. 

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post #12 of 22
3/28/12 at 7:21pm
Thread Starter 

So, nobody else is watching this? Shit. You're missing out - this season was not as good as 3, but still pretty fuckin' good. 

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post #13 of 22
3/28/12 at 8:51pm

I was always way behind this season but it was pretty fantastic television.  Question about the finale:

 

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

Did Ben murder the pimp, or was it self defense?  I don't think Ben would go that far.

 

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post #14 of 22
3/29/12 at 11:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chavez View Post

So, nobody else is watching this? Shit. You're missing out - this season was not as good as 3, but still pretty fuckin' good. 


I dunno, I think it was better than Season 3. Having a smaller cast seemed to focus the show a bit better.

 

I still think it's a shame they did what they did to Tom Everett Scott. He's still the best partner Lydia had. Although the new guy is leaps and bounds over her Season 3 partner.

 

As for the finale, I thought it was a bit anti-climactic considering the episode from the week before was so jam packed with goodness. And while it's more realistic, I think not having Tang get her comeuppance was dissapointing.

 

Loved that they put John back as a training officer.

 

Can't wait for the next season.
 

 

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post #15 of 22
3/29/12 at 5:19pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BorisTheCheese View Post

 

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

Did Ben murder the pimp, or was it self defense?  I don't think Ben would go that far.

 


I would think that if (from what I've heard, it's a small "if" - Southland will be back) they come back for another season, that's something that will come out. 

 

 

The AV Club, as always, has great discussion - timing-wise, Ben didn't have time to plant the gun; so he most likely didn't shoot him in cold blood....however, if we're taking the idea that he completely forced the issue and got in a position where he was able to put down Ronnie, yeah, then he manipulated the situation into exactly that. I think Sammy might not know the details but he's pretty sure that Ben is right on the edge if not gone over it. 

 

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post #16 of 22
3/29/12 at 5:26pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul755 View Post


I dunno, I think it was better than Season 3. Having a smaller cast seemed to focus the show a bit better.

 

I still think it's a shame they did what they did to Tom Everett Scott. He's still the best partner Lydia had. Although the new guy is leaps and bounds over her Season 3 partner.

 

 

 

Really? I kinda felt like the show was meandering at times, without really any sort of overarching story like Cooper hitting bottom; most episodes were "Ben and Sammy have some stuff happen; Tang and Cooper have some stuff happen; Lydia and partner have some stuff happen"...at least until Lydia got pregnant, then it was generally "Lydia gets case ABOUT RAISING CHILDREN." 

 

Now don't get me wrong, it was still damn good, just seemed a little unfocused to me until it really started coming together with the Ben vs Ronnie and Tang shooting the kid plotlines. Though it still had some really great episodes, as an overall whole it cohered a little less than in S3.

 

 

Also, I thought Lydia's partner (Rodriguez?) in S3 was better than her current one - we don't really get a feel for him, he's a bit of a blandoid. At least Rodriguez(?) set up as a terrific foil for the straight-laced, by-the-book Lydia. She may not have been LIKABLE but she really added to the mix. 

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post #17 of 22
3/29/12 at 8:17pm

S3 also had a larger cast and a major death.  On the other hand this season had  pieces of a woman stuck in a guys wheelwell.  And all of the people that knew said woman celebrating her death.  

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post #18 of 22
3/29/12 at 8:20pm



I only watched it once, and was not paying that close attention, but I thought the killing of Ronnie was preceded by a scene of Ben cleaning his weapon and also handling another silver handgun...now maybe that is his back-up piece, but it also could of been a gun to plant.

 



Quote:
Originally Posted by Chavez View Post


I would think that if (from what I've heard, it's a small "if" - Southland will be back) they come back for another season, that's something that will come out. 

 

 

The AV Club, as always, has great discussion - timing-wise, Ben didn't have time to plant the gun; so he most likely didn't shoot him in cold blood....however, if we're taking the idea that he completely forced the issue and got in a position where he was able to put down Ronnie, yeah, then he manipulated the situation into exactly that. I think Sammy might not know the details but he's pretty sure that Ben is right on the edge if not gone over it. 

 



 

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post #19 of 22
3/29/12 at 8:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3nnui View Post





I only watched it once, and was not paying that close attention, but I thought the killing of Ronnie was preceded by a scene of Ben cleaning his weapon and also handling another silver handgun...now maybe that is his back-up piece, but it also could of been a gun to plant.

 



 



Need to go and re-watch it.  I missed the silver gun.

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post #20 of 22
3/30/12 at 9:31am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BorisTheCheese View Post

Need to go and re-watch it.  I missed the silver gun.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3nnui View Post

I only watched it once, and was not paying that close attention, but I thought the killing of Ronnie was preceded by a scene of Ben cleaning his weapon and also handling another silver handgun...now maybe that is his back-up piece, but it also could of been a gun to plant.


 

This is from gun nuts over at the AV Club and elsewhere, but apparently neither of the two guns he was cleaning were the model that Ronnie had when he got shot. Doesn't mean he DIDN'T plant it, neither of those guns were the one planted. 

 

Also, why would you clean a gun before planting it? By cleaning it barehanded, his prints are then all over every piece. 

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post #21 of 22
3/30/12 at 8:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chavez View Post

 


 

This is from gun nuts over at the AV Club and elsewhere, but apparently neither of the two guns he was cleaning were the model that Ronnie had when he got shot. Doesn't mean he DIDN'T plant it, neither of those guns were the one planted. 

 

Also, why would you clean a gun before planting it? By cleaning it barehanded, his prints are then all over every piece. 


makes perfect sense, I actually did not see the gun in Ronnies hand ( I was half asleep and thought they did not show it), and I thought he only cleaned his service weapon, the silver gun was never disassembled. I viewed that scene as a build up to a potential murder, so I guess I saw what I was expecting to see.

 

 

Overall I liked what they attempted to do with Ben's character this season, but unfortunately I think it did not come across the right way. I think the point of this season was to show the pressures the cops are under and why they often become desensitized with an us vs them mentality.  The combination of danger, abuse, needing to protect one another, one mistake being career or life ending, all add up to society asking law enforcement to be superman every day for mediocre pay and harrowing working conditions. The problem is I think they rushed it in Ben's case, he went from boy scout super cop last season to jaded, girl punching, pimp slapping, potential murderer in about 8 episodes. The process is more gradual, but of course TV tends to rush story lines for dramatic purposes. Ultimately, no cop or person is really all good or all bad, we all make a series of compromises and difficult choices under pressure which come to define us as human beings. I do like that the show is portraying the cops as human and fallible, I also like that they are showing the gallows humour and bravodo which is like an emotional vest the officers don before going out to do their job. So all in all I will keep watching.
 

 

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post #22 of 22
3/31/12 at 12:06pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3nnui View Post

 

Overall I liked what they attempted to do with Ben's character this season, but unfortunately I think it did not come across the right way. I think the point of this season was to show the pressures the cops are under and why they often become desensitized with an us vs them mentality.  The combination of danger, abuse, needing to protect one another, one mistake being career or life ending, all add up to society asking law enforcement to be superman every day for mediocre pay and harrowing working conditions. The problem is I think they rushed it in Ben's case, he went from boy scout super cop last season to jaded, girl punching, pimp slapping, potential murderer in about 8 episodes. The process is more gradual, but of course TV tends to rush story lines for dramatic purposes.
 


 

I'd agree with that - when I read the article where McKenzie was talking about Sherman becoming a nihilist, I was like "ah, that ALL makes sense" - from the irresponsible shit he's doing on the job to the random sexual encounters with women (in the first 2-3 seasons, he really seemed to be looking for Ms Right; now he seems to be looking for Ms Right Now*).

 

Not that I need someone to hit me over the head with this sort of stuff, but it was far from evident that this was Ben's story arc through this season. 

 

 

 

* - not that I have a problem with this on an ethical level, it's just a bit of a 180 from where the character previously was

 

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