The Phantom Menace 3D Discussion - Page 3

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Originally Posted by Sebastian OB 

 It's more about what Star Wars could be as apposed to what it is.

Probably very true.

My own obsessive expanding of storylines, using the action figures and ships, as a child is a testament to that.

I overheard my duaghter doing the same thing with the Lego she bought me for my birthday.

I think it's because each character had a backstory, a name, there was no "Alien 1" or similar, it was so real.  I remember my friends and I being obsessed with what the Journal of the Whils was, just because it was mentioned at the start of the Star Wars novelisation.  Also what the Clone Wars actually were *.  It was almost like a secret history.  I think that novel had a lot to do with it.  I think it was there that it expanded that Obi Wan and Vader fought on the edge of a volcano, and that that is why Darth was in a walking iron lung.  I don't think that's mentioned in the movies at all.

I can also remember finally seeing the Biggs stuff when he re-added it... and being really disappointed.  What was great in the novel was not great in the film.

* As an aside I always thought that the CLone Wars were a little like the American Civil War.  That the galaxy split on the ethical use of clones. I think that was also one of the more crushing disappointments I had with AotC, that it was just a war using clones. 

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Originally Posted by LaurenOrtega 

 

 

 

Oh god? Can we like start a support group for people who aren't Stars Wars types at all? Because I basically fell completely out of love with the films as soon as it was decided that we all needed to see the longest super-villian origin film ever.

I don't do well in groups, but I dig 1930's pulp adventure serials and I like the Indiana Jones films just fine, so this hypothetical support group might consider that some kind of gateway drug or something. "You wanna be out on Hunts Point, at 2 o'clock in the morning, blowing closeted high school gym teachers for original Millennium Falcon schematics? Huh!? 'Cause that's where Buster Crabbe, Crash Corrigan, and The motherfucking Crimson Ghost will get ya! I've seen that shit too many times and I will not, I will not let it happen to yoooou!"

I liked it when stuff like the Clone Wars or the history of the Jedi was just some background shit I didn't have to experience first hand. The need to see everything in Star Wars is never not annoying to me.

And we can like get Steve Earle to show up and talk about how he nearly knocked over a gas-station just to get his Leigh Brackett fix.

Yeah this'll work.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sebastian OB 

I find it amazing that people can be so fanatically devoted to something that has been so disappointing for so long, going all the way back to JEDI. I think it's the universe. The fans want to be immersed in that universe, even if the story they're being told is awful. It's more about what Star Wars could be as apposed to what it is.

That's a big part of it. You just have to look at the popularity of KOTOR, which a lot of people at the time loved because it let them immerse themselves in the universe with a story that felt like 'real' Star Wars.

Not being the slightest bit interested in 3D, I have no intention of checking out the new releases anyway, even when they move on to the originals. Surprisingly, though, a friend of mine confessed the other week that he *is* going to go, despite being far more vehement in his dislike of the the prequels (TPM especially) than me. I mean, truth be told, while I wouldn't dispute they were bad films, I don't hate the first or third the way most seem to, they're just mediocre and disappointing but if they're on telly, I'll invariably end up watching them.

HOWEVER...

..AotC can fuck off for all eternity. I can get why TPM gets the bulk of the hate (the crushing disappointment, Jar-Jar, annoying kid, flat performances, too much politics, etc) but I can live with that as it does have a few things going for it. AotC, on the other hand, is second only to Michael Bay in its ability to both bore the fuck out of me and piss me off to no end. Even the score is crap, for goodness' sake. In fact, the only things I can find good to say about it are Christopher Lee, the funky *silence*BWAAAAAAAAAAAARAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNG noise those space bombs made and the final scene with Palpatine overlooking his shiny new fleet while the Imperial March plays. The rest can get tae fuck, as uncouth Northern types might say.

my mailbox makes that bwaaaaang sound when you let it slam shut.

I like to imagine Burtt with his microphone alongside one somewhere in the US thinking .. "hmmmm, space mines"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sebastian OB 

I find it amazing that people can be so fanatically devoted to something that has been so disappointing for so long, going all the way back to JEDI. I think it's the universe. The fans want to be immersed in that universe, even if the story they're being told is awful. It's more about what Star Wars could be as apposed to what it is.

Or they just enjoy the movies. 
 

Shut your whore mouth.

Why don't you go back to your home on whore island?

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Originally Posted by The Dark Shape 

Why don't you go back to your home on whore island?

That's... not a real place. (Had to complete the Archer quote)

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Originally Posted by LaurenOrtega 

I liked it when stuff like the Clone Wars or the history of the Jedi was just some background shit I didn't have to experience first hand. The need to see everything in Star Wars is never not annoying to me.

 

 

 

This is exactly it. The original series is all about what the Wordplayer guys call "the off-screen movie". It builds up a rich world by suggesting and implying all kinds of Tolkienian detail that we don't see firsthand. The prequels are all about pedantically showing us everything so there's no mystery anymore.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Prankster 

This is exactly it. The original series is all about what the Wordplayer guys call "the off-screen movie". It builds up a rich world by suggesting and implying all kinds of Tolkienian detail that we don't see firsthand. The prequels are all about pedantically showing us everything so there's no mystery anymore.

Which wouldn't have been that bad if they'd actually shown us the one thing we'd waited sixteen years to see on film and not relegated to a show on the Cartoon Network.  The prequels should have had the Clone Wars as its overriding setting just like the OT had the Rebellion as its backdrop.  Instead, they happen pretty much between Episodes II and III.  But at least we got that kick-ass trade dispute.

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Originally Posted by Ambler 

???

 

seriously.  quote of the century.

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Originally Posted by Richard Dickson 

Which wouldn't have been that bad if they'd actually shown us the one thing we'd waited sixteen years to see on film and not relegated to a show on the Cartoon Network.  The prequels should have had the Clone Wars as its overriding setting just like the OT had the Rebellion as its backdrop.  Instead, they happen pretty much between Episodes II and III.  But at least we got that kick-ass trade dispute.

I don't think that would have helped, barring a whole pile of other structural fixes.

Star Wars was always a geek property, but what's funny is that it's falling into the same trap that superhero comics started to fall into sometime around the 70s: the need to tie up every loose end and explain every aspect of the mythology, thereby shrinkingthis once-vast and rich world to about the size of a small village. The OT, especially ANH, were almost literally all about throwing out ideas and details to build up a vast world. "The Clone Wars" never needed to be explained or seen, per se, they were just a random bit of texture to show that the Star Wars universe has history with crucial events. For that matter, I'm pretty sure that when they were introduced, the Clone Wars weren't meant to be "the war that allowed the Empire to take over" any more than the Sith were meant to be "evil Jedi". It was all texture that works better WITHOUT BEING EXPLAINED. Sure, we got Vader as Luke's dad, but that just adds layers to the imagined backstory.

The Prequels are almost OCD about narrowing in on these fun details and cutting them off by either explaining them or tying them into the larger story, without providing much in the way of new backstory ideas of their own. I mean, unless anyone honestly gave a shit about where the trade federation came from.

Ironically, there are things in the prequels that probably SHOULD have been explained better, but weren't. I mean, having kept myself fairly fresh when I walked in to see TPM, I was expecting we'd get at least a little bit of backstory about how the Jedi were formed, what was up with the Old Republic, etc. But nope. As I've said before, and as Gary Kurtz apparently insisted to Lucas back in the day, the prequels should have gone back to WAY before Anakin's life, to a completely different period of galactic history, and shown either the foundation of the Republic or the origins of the Jedi (which are vaguely hinted at in the ANH novelization), or both. Not only is that pretty much what people wanted out of the prequels, it would have left them far, far more leeway for storytelling and originality. It could have avoided the "prequel problem" (i.e., we already know how this shit ends) very neatly. Instead, Lucas blundered right into it. Also, if this had been a story set centuries or millennia before the OT, even if the prequels had been as crappy as they were, it wouldn't feel like such a taint on the OT.

how can you not be bored of discussing this

Exactly.

I'm sure somebody else really wanted to see Anakin turn into Darth Vader play-by-play, but I never gave a shit. The original trilogy had all the information one needed(He was good, then he turned evil, sided with the Empire, is Luke's father) and it gave us all the pathos we needed. Shrinking a universe that could be as big and grand as Star Wars to become the personal story of how one whiny teenager fucked things up for about a decade or two.*

Really the same thing might as well be said about the Jedi, who worked perfectly when they happened to feel more like wandering space-samurai and less like a group of dottering pussies with an unyielding sexless worldview. How dull.

*Really having the Empire be a shorter regime than some current dictatorships makes them seem rather less intimidating.

The theater could hand me keys to an undriven Ford GT (in Gulf Oil livery) and it still wouldn't be enough for me to sit through Jake Lloyd's performance again.

But for all of you that like Episode 1, or can even tolerate it, Peace be with you, I wish you no ill will.

Edit: I forward a motion that all further Star Wars discussion be conducted in the politics and Religion forum.

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Originally Posted by Paul C 

how can you not be bored of discussing this

it's like picking at a scab :)

What we talk about when we talk about Star Wars in 2012...

...

...

...?

 

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Originally Posted by Gabe T 

What we talk about when we talk about Star Wars in 2012...

 

 

...

 

 

...

 

...?

 

That the Mayan calendar predicted the end of Star Wars?

Hahaha three pages of Nerds screaming "Star Wars suck LOL I won't spend one penny of my hard earned Dollas" when you ALL KNOW YOU WILL BE IN LINE OPENING NIGHT WEARING YOUR JEDI ROBES!

And I'll be there too (sighs).

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Prankster 

Not only is that pretty much what people wanted out of the prequels

Who, exactly?  I was 11 in the run-up to the Special Editions with prequel talk in overdrive.  Everyone wanted the story of Anakin Skywalker.  Why in the world would Episodes I-III have, essentially, nothing to do with Episodes IV-VI?  People wanted a prequel, not a spin-off that happened to be set in the past.

I'd sooner see Willow post converted to 3D than this personally.

I never cared all that much about what made Darth Vader turn bad.

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Originally Posted by The Rain Dog 

I'd sooner see Willow post converted to 3D than this personally.

Fucking ouch, man. Even Willow doesn't deserve that.

Well, unless you're saying that you actually like it. Which fine, no problem. I just never liked it too much aside from the good performances of Warwick Davis and Val Kilmer.

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Originally Posted by LaurenOrtega 

I never cared all that much about what made Darth Vader turn bad.

...do you like ice cream?

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Originally Posted by Chris Spider 

Fucking ouch, man. Even Willow doesn't deserve that.

 

Well, unless you're saying that you actually like it. Which fine, no problem. I just never liked it too much aside from the good performances of Warwick Davis and Val Kilmer.

 

No I actually like Willow. It's clunky as fuck in some parts but works like gangbusters as a kids film.

Warwick is great, Val Kilmer is a pure unadulterated Han Solo movie star cool and James Horners score rivals Williams at his best. It's also a kids film that doesn't bother going into trade disputes, backroom politics or international economic blockades, which is a bonus.

...and I'll take these two over Jar Jar any day.

Nup, screw the haters, Willow is a tonne more fun than Phantom Menace - hell at least it makes sense - and is a wonderful reminder of when The Beard was humble enough to collaborate and come up with bona fide world class childrens entertainment.

Fuckin' love it.

But I've never really felt the need to see Darth Vader's fall from grace. The little asides, bits of history, and character moments we got in the first trilogy suited me just fine and dandy.

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Originally Posted by LaurenOrtega 

 

 

 

 

Fuckin' love it.

 

But I've never really felt the need to see Darth Vader's fall from grace. The little asides, bits of history, and character moments we got in the first trilogy suited me just fine and dandy.

...do you like Angelina Jolie?

Yes, though I prefer young switchblade wielding Angelina Jolie.

He's building up to a great Patton Oswalt routine about the prequels, Lauren: "I DON'T CARE ABOUT WHERE THE STUFF I LOVE COMES FROM! I JUST LOVE THE STUFF I LOVE!"

Regarding Willow: you make a decent argument, RD. I just find that the narrative is too basic, Bavmorda is a standard evil queen, and naming some of the bad guys after certain film critics seems childish and petty.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaurenOrtega 

Yes, though I prefer young switchblade wielding Angelina Jolie.

Are you playing it super cool young lady or have you honestly never heard this before?...

You have a spiritual ally in The Patton.

I just wanted to talk about switchblade wielding Angelina Jolie.

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Originally Posted by LaurenOrtega 

I just wanted to talk about switchblade wielding Angelina Jolie.

I find that concept a lot more attractive than Jon Voights ball sack that's for sure.

At least one good thing has come from the 3D release of TPM. The Darth Maul and Yoda Lipton Ice Tea commercial.

...Are you British?

I'm sort of loathe to 'get involved', beyond snarking at aging butthurt fanboys, but what doesn't make sense again? It's been a decade but I don't seem to remember this movie being particularly hard to follow.

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Originally Posted by Paul C 

 

I'm sort of loathe to 'get involved', beyond snarking at aging butthurt fanboys, but what doesn't make sense again? It's been a decade but I don't seem to remember this movie being particularly hard to follow.

Plinkett said it better than I ever could, and really, I'm as loathed to 'get involved' in that little net waltz as much as you are anyway.

I just think Willow is unfairly maligned.

...and Joanne Whaley was god damn sex on legs in it, I agree.

I seem to remember that part of the review being a load of nitpicking about Palpatine's plan not being very watertight when you look closely at it, as if far-fetched supervillain plans heavily dependent on coincidence and audience suspension of disbelief is some rare and unforgivable thing (c.f. The Dark Knight), and also as if that whole plot isn't kept way in the background anyway. Despite what he thinks the basic plot is conventionally structured and essentially makes sense from what I remember, and you get the gist about the whole Palpatine thing. The problems with the movie really have nothing to do with any of that stuff. Plinkett is fun for nitpicking, but isn't a particularly good 'serious' critic.

Don't think I've ever really sat down and watched Willow, I should do that sometime.

This thread = "Plinkett Raped my Kidadulthood!"

Quote:

Originally Posted by felix 

I have a soft spot for Willow.

 

Had a crush on Joanne Whalley when it came out.

 

Hot fuck yes.  Followed by Scandal.  And even before that in the Singing Detective.

I believe the line went something like: "I'm going to have to lift your penis now, while I grease around it" and Michael Gambon's character (not surprisingly) shooting his load.

I was 13 at the time.  She certainly had an impact on me.

Unfortunately I first saw Willow long after I saw Conan.

Sandahl Bergman kinda towered over other swordy-girls for a long time.

That kids trailer kept making me think of those 'updated' Classic Disney shorts with the obnoxious douche-voice narrating everything.

Also, speaking of marketing... I'm posting from Korea right now and the ad on the right side of the forums is a Korean ad for Phantom Menace!  Marketing: YOU CANNOT ESCAPE IT!

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Originally Posted by mcnooj82 

Also, speaking of marketing... I'm posting from Korea right now and the ad on the right side of the forums is a Korean ad for Phantom Menace!  Marketing: YOU CANNOT ESCAPE IT!

Your avatar works so well with this.

I feel offended for my daughter because of the patronising tone of that advert.

Arse.