THE GREY Post-Relese Discussion - Page 4

It was probably panic.  It's not like they were all disciplined soldiers.

I know.  I just found it funny.

Gotcha.  That would likely be what happens though.  Everyone goes all "HOLY SHIT!" and burns through their ammo in ten seconds.  Then they just have pointy sticks.

Sorry Parker, while I can understand the arguments for not liking The Grey (insomuch as you can understand anything you're inclined to disagree with, if you receive my meaning), I can't at all wrap my brain around this. Even speaking as someone immensely enjoyed the film, I feel pretty confident in saying that there's never a single beat of self-satisfaction in The Grey's two hour running time; it's too focused on pushing its audience in ways both visceral and emotional to sit back for even a second to revel in itself.

 

On top of that, it's a quiet film, at least thematically. Even when the remaining survivors sit around a campfire bonding, they're not speaking terribly loudly to the film's ideas about accepting death and confronting tenets of faith.

 

While writing those two paragraphs, it occurred to me that what it means for a film to be pleased with itself is sort of undefined here. I don't know if there's a single, solid definition of what a film being smug actually looks like, but I want to avoid vagueness. For me, I get that sense of self-satisfaction from films that feature moments which fit uncomfortably into the over-arching plot and narrative. Beats that don't occur naturally within those threads, even if they reflect the thematic elements of the film, tend to ring of smugness to me. Everything in The Grey unequivocally belongs. In that respect I don't think the film is winking and gloating at its audience over its own greatness; I think it's just interested in telling its story.

 

I've agreed with you far too many times on how good this movie is, but yeah, this.

 

Responding to the idea of Ottway's growth in the film: we first meet him with a gun in his mouth, and in the end he's no longer content to just allow death to take him without a fight. That's growth. He goes from being someone willing to throw his life away to someone who's willing to fight to the death instead.

 

I don't really care who wins the Oscars, but Neeson should at least be nominated.

 

 

I'm pretty sure this movie is based on Michael Ironside's life. Except that he's the wolf and he totally wins in the end.

The director discusses the ending...

 

"We did a version where he fights the alpha [wolf] and I just thought, the worst thing you could do is get a movie that you feel like ‘God, this movie really works and at the very end you blow it because you wanted to show a guy fighting a wolf."

 

 

Also, did anyone else inadvertently laugh out loud when the dude who fell to his death, hit literally every branch on the tree on his way down?  It felt like a Family Guy skit.

 

I laughed at how stupid that tree jumping plan was...easily the most unbelievable thing in the whole movie, but I'm afraid of heights, so that guys death was actually the most effective for me. I hated the whole awkward "were-daughter" transition they pulled after that, though. As if the wolves even needed to be there...

 

Still sounds like code for: "It looked shitty/fake and we needed to come up with something different and call it "artistic" '.

Not sure if it has been referenced already, but the ending of Legends of the Fall would seem to back up Carnahan's point.  (Of course, that whole movie was a piece of shit, but Brad Pitt fighting the bear was especially stupid.)

 

From cognizant's link:

 

“I quite like the way [the film] wraps up with that,” said Carnahan. “You’ll notice they changed [it on the poster to] “Live or die on this day” instead of “And”… Live and Die on this day” because the marketing people said, “We can’t tell them he’s going to die. Not yet.”

 

Ha ha.  I was right!

Eh, it's my favorite part of Legends of the Fall.

 

 

I've been away today and wanted to respond to Dickson and others about the necessity of ending it pre-fight. I understand what you're saying, that it works thematically as an ending. I would argue that the problem is that it doesn't work viscerally, or really, emotionally. It negates the fact that a very large part of what makes this movie so successful up to this point is that it grabs you by the nerves and fucks with you, almost like a horror film. That this is tied to Ottway's spiritual malaise is great, but said malaise was never the whole of what I was enjoying here. And I think this is born out in the apparently universal frustration audiences have had with the finale. My crowd, at least, was absolutely getting owned by the film up until the ending, and then the credits roll and it was like a bucket of ice water on an erection.

 

There's nothing here so artistically resonant that general audiences need to be shut out. So I don't buy that this is a No Country For Old Men situation, where the whole point of the movie was tied to the way it fucks your expectations. You can say the point isn't what happened in the fight, just that he decides to fight, and I don't disagree, but I don't see what's lost in showing it, while I totally see what you lose in cutting to black. He could even have gotten his ass kicked by the wolf, it still would have been pretty cathartic.

 

The only qualifier is what Carnahan says about not wanting to fuck up the movie with a shitty wolf fight at the end, and if they simply couldn't nail it, I suppose they made the right choice. Unfortunately, I still think that's kind of playing to tie. To which I'd say, well, whatever. 

 

Leaving aside the potential issue of questionable wolf effects, I still don't see what the movie gains by physically showing Ottway fighting the Alpha, aside from the surface level satisfaction the audience might get from seeing Liam Neeson get a few shots in before being torn to shreds.  I know there are a couple actiony sequences that do push the envelope of plausibility a bit, but it was very clear long before the climax that Joe Carnahan was not making that kind of movie, and a full on wolf-brawl ending would betray everything that came before.  Now whether you think he was successful with everything that came before, that's another story, but the current ending falls very much in line with the movie Carnahan was making.  I think they could have scrapped the post-credits sequence too, for that matter.  That smash cut really worked for me.

  

 

 

I finally saw this in the afternoon, on a giant screen with a big sound system, and that was a nice way to see it despite how it is a quiet film... those jump scares really work in that format.

 

I pretty much ignored/forgot most of the marketing for this movie so I just went on the word of some reliable sources in the B Action Movie Thread who had real high praise for it and explained that the marketing-as usual-was bullshit and misleading. I then saw on my Facebook page that someone I knew had an opinion that I didn't realize until reading this thread was popular... that he did not like how it ended. Unfortunately he was one who thought it ruined the entire movie. So, I imagine it helped me out going into the viewing with those expectations. Oh, and I did know of the end credits thing so I stuck around, although in hindsight that was a waste of time.

 

Overall, I was in the camp that enjoyed this, including the ending. I thought it worked for the film as you didn't need to see the fight... but that's been explained already by other people who did a better job of it than I could. I liked how this was more than just a simple man vs. nature story and instead had all those thematic elements and I dug it all. I definitely enjoyed looking at the Alaskan (actually, rural British Columbia) scenery also.

 

I can't forget either that plane crash. Holy shit! I haven't seen as many of them on film as many here probably have, but for me that was the most effective and terrifying.

 

So, while I do understand why people didn't like how it turned out, I happened to think it worked (even if that wasn't the ending they originally filmed).

 

I noticed that hat during the movie and all I could think of was Weyland-Yutani everytime it was on screen. Glad I wasn't the only one. I was going to mention it to my friends afterwards but, as usual, I realized they would have had no idea what I was talking about.

 

God, I love being a nerd.

Edited by Adamclane99 - 2/4/12 at 5:48pm

"I'll fucking do it myself."

 

Saw this movie this afternoon, and I have to say that I'm squarely in the "loved it" camp.

 

The first Carnahan movie that I've loved.

Just got back, and holy fuck did I love it. And it doesn't make it an 'artistic' decision to cut out the wolf fight ending fer chrissakes; any filmmaker worth a shit will look at what they have objectively in the editing room and make necessary changes. And last I checked it came off as a much better decision to let us see the fight in our own heads.

 

And did nobody stay around for the credits? Pretty cool bit about Neeson being FUCKING TRIUMPHANT, post-fight. 

How does Ottway not grow? He goes from doing his duty trying to take care of a bunch of roughnecks to deciding to go toe to toe with a wolf over the mere memory of the men he was leading. The last thing the movie needed was a wolf fight at the end -- it's about a man that finds family after having his life taken away from him, and the decision to still go on and the improbable strengthening of that decision against the odds on a razor's edge between life and death. And that the fight is enough. He finds something to fight for. How is that not growing?

 

I won't fault people asking questions in general, because it was a bit hasty at the end. But to say it wasn't dramatically honest is not getting it at best. It's a movie that's mostly obsessed with theme, and like other films of this ilk the realism will suffer on SOME level... but coming down as hard as some of you are doesn't make sense to me.

I went in blind on this and think that was best as I had no expectations about what would unfold. Haven't read through this thread yet, but my take on the film is that Ottoway was successful in his suicide attempt and everything we were watching was his consciousness struggling with moving on. His repeated dreams/hallucinations of his wife/girlfriend, his obsession with the letter, and his struggle with faith* all leads me to believe he had to come to terms with himself, his life, and his choice to end it all. This interpretation helps me be okay with the increasingly impossible scenarios that occur in the film that otherwise would be completely groan worthy. I mean, I could buy miraculously surviving a plane crash and multiple wolf attacks, but I literally yelled "WHAT?!" out loud at the cliff jumping scene. That said, the movie was intense in a fun way. It had all the right moves to keep the suspense up and provide laughter to break the tension. The seasoned actors provided the necessary emotional resonance to keep us invested in caring about their survival, eliciting sadness as folks don't make it. I had a great time. 

 

*I just remembered that in the scene where they tell each other their first names, they were Peter and John. Seems like evidence supporting my argument that the movie is Ottoway's purgatory. 

Edited by Diva - 2/5/12 at 2:55pm

This is interesting. Whenever I glance at reviews and reactions, it's women that seem to come away with a far more metaphysical reading of the film. Among a handful of other things, the nothingness around Ottway when he wakes up in the snow and the spectral, elemental sort of psychopomp nature of the wolves is probably, I would wager, a strong part of what draws that idea out. 

His decision to make a final stand is his breakthrough. He wasn't afraid anymore. He was ready to stand and fight. To me, that was him being ready to move on.

 

 

I'm also a psychologist. I think everything is about some psychological issue. :)

Women. Always trying to complicate and confuse shit by reading minds. Why can't a man shit-kicking a wolf just be a man shit-kicking a wolf!? Why you gotta make it about his "relationship"? Kidding of course. I love that level of engagement. = )

If we're going with a "he's dead all along" theory, I'd read it as they all died in the plane crash, and the journey through the wilderness is their journey through Purgatory.

Richard, that's what my friend Tim thought after I brought up the purgatory idea. I guess I don't really have an opinion if he dies from the suicide or the plane crash, though my disappointment in Lost probably makes me want to lean away from the plane option. :)

So...it's a much shorter, slightly less shittier version of LOST?

That's ridiculous. 'He's dead along' is the oldest, hackneyed cliche in the book. It would ruin the movie.

It depends on your suspension of belief. I think it is much more believable that the characters are dead than to believe they survived a horrendous plane crash relatively unscathed; can just punch their way out of a wolf attack; have no physical side effects from being bitten by wolves, lack of food and water, and frostbite; and can tie some old t-shirts together and launch themselves off a F'n mountain while landing in trees more than 30 feet away. Yeah, I'm the crazy person. Also, the end credits said the movie was based on a short story called "Ghost Walker" or something to that effect. I stand by my theory, 

For the record, I said IF you want to interpret it that way.  I don't.

Quote:

Yeah.  Which is why its kind of strange to rationalize a not-quite-realistic action beat like the cliff jump with "well they must have been dead the whole time".       

 

Huh? I don't understand your comparison. The cliff shit has nothing to do with why I view the movie as a metaphysical journal.

Carnahan talks about the effect of Neeson's wife's death on his performance.

Carnahan isn't the only person for whom the film is a more personal effort. John Ottway, Neeson's character, is grieving the loss of his wife. Neeson's loss of his own wife, Natasha Richardson, just a few years ago was something Carnahan says he was conscious of in his approach, but wasn't sure could even be avoided.
"We touched on that, and Liam was very forthcoming with the other actors and myself," Carnahan says. "He looked at [the role] as a catharsis. ... Liam was always very open and sincere, and he was able to liberate from his own personal life what he needed to make Ottway's situation work."
What kind of things, Carnahan isn't saying.
"What those things were are exclusively the province of Liam."

http://m.npr.org/story/145996456?url=/2012/01/27/145996456/carnahan-discusses-the-grey

I enjoyed the movie thoroughly, and this to me is further proof that Neeson truly is one of the best working actors today, he is believable in everything and gives it his all.  The ending worked for me, I like how they didn't show the wolf fight as leaving it up to the viewer's imagination is fine.

 

I can see why some would be dissapointed in the decision to not show it, since it might have been cool to see, but that being said this movie did not need to show it.  All around very enjoyable and good performances throughout.

 

It really is great to see cinematography that consists of actual real footage of mother nature and not the typical green screen crap we are being forcefead more and more.

Edited by Xamot - 2/8/12 at 2:41pm

Loved, loved, loved this movie. Hell of a bounce-back for Carnahan.

 

And I really don't understand the complaints about the ending. It's the only logical way it could have ended.

 

I think the modern - almost pornographic - usage of CGI has permanently supplanted the notion that sometimes things in a film are sometimes better left to the audience's imagination. Had The Grey been released in the 70s, I doubt anyone would have complained. And conversely, if say, Jaws were released today, there'd be complaints of "Not enough shark". It's a shame that watching movies has become such a passive activity for so many people. 

10 days later I still can't get this movie out of my head. I'm no expert but that poem, and Neeson's delivery of it in the final scene, was amazing.

I dunno, maybe it's because there have been some deaths in my family recently, but I found the movie very powerful.

Great film, but my favorite part was during the final scene when Neeson stumbles into the den and identifies it and the man sitting behind me turns to his girlfriend and with complete seriousness says "Aw shit, he did it! He finally found the den!" WHAT. THE. FUCK.

Just saw this.  As a film, cinematically, it works really really well.  It's the only Carnahan film I've actually enjoyed.  But the situation itself is completely ludicrous.

 

Wolves do not act like they do in this movie.  At all.  This would be fine if Carnahan didn't treat his canvas in such a realistic fashion, nearly taking on a documentary like approach.  Carnahan's wolves are like vicious monsters, scary demons and you'd think you'd hear alot more about wolf attacks.  But there has been only one reported wolf attack in North America in 200 years.   Neeson is supposed to be a wolf expert, but everything he says about wolves in this movie is a lie.  They do not have a 300 mile hunting radius, they do not attack anything that comes near their den and they do not seek revenge.  Wolves are cowards.  They are scared shitless of humans.  This movie's treatment of wolves is utter nonsense.  At the beginning, that wolf Neeson's character shoots before it has a chance to attack those men is ridiculous...wolves simply don't act like that.  You're more likely to be hit by a falling meteor than be attacked by a wolf.

 

It's a problem because the entire film is hinged on this fictional wolf behavior.  It stops me from loving this as much as I want to.  I enjoyed it as a thrilling experience, but those must have been genetically altered wolves gone wrong in some kind of lab experiment.  

Edited by Ambler - 4/3/12 at 10:54pm

I'm assuming they're direwolves.

 

It's their bad luck that they crashlanded north of the Wall.

I guess that means the movie is now totally believable.

 

 

If you want to be dumb enough to believe wolves behave like they do in The Grey, be my guest.  The bottom line is you're more likely to be killed by the family pet than a wolf.  

 

EDIT:  You want real stats?

 

 

 

Jaws is so fucking terrible. Some of my best friends are sharks and they don't act like that at all. Don't even get me started on Moby Dick. More like Moby LIE!!!