So, I've decided to check out Cheers AND Frasier... - Page 2

What's funny about the Three's Company spin-offs is that they were identical to the spin-offs of the British sitcom on which it was based, Man About the House.  ABC pretty much just copied the Thames version step for step.

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Originally Posted by Ratty 

The Ropers was so horrible that I suspect that it brought back smallpox, so I'm going with The Tortellis.

 

Whatever happened to spinoffs?  They have seemingly vanished into thin air, at least for sitcoms.  

 

 

 

They're supposedly prepping a Dwight-centric spinoff of The Office after it finally dies (which appears to be after this season), focusing on the farm and his bed and breakfast there.

I think that successful spinoffs seem to be based off of minor or one-time characters on a show rather than major characters on a show that has run it's course.  Both Laverne & Shirley as well as Mork (Mork & Mindy) started on Happy Days as very minor pieces and did just fine.  Joanie Loves Chachi?  Not so much.  Once the audience has begun checking out of your show I just think odds are bad that they'll come back to check out characters from a show they already gave up on.

I could go for a Jean-Ralphio spinoff.  

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Originally Posted by Ratty 

I could go for a Jean-Ralphio spinoff.  

S to the P to the IN to the OFF

when I get a cold I suck a cough

...drop

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Originally Posted by A-Pathetic 

I think that successful spinoffs seem to be based off of minor or one-time characters on a show rather than major characters on a show that has run it's course.  Both Laverne & Shirley as well as Mork (Mork & Mindy) started on Happy Days as very minor pieces and did just fine.  Joanie Loves Chachi?  Not so much.  Once the audience has begun checking out of your show I just think odds are bad that they'll come back to check out characters from a show they already gave up on.

Which is probably one of the reasons why Joey and After MASH didn't work.  The presence of such major characters only served to remind us that those shows weren't Friends or MASH.

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Originally Posted by Ratty 

The Ropers was so horrible that I suspect that it brought back smallpox, so I'm going with The Tortellis.

 

Whatever happened to spinoffs?  They have seemingly vanished into thin air, at least for sitcoms. 

Haha...I accidentally read that as The Rapers.

I'm guessing that the final nail in the coffin for spin-offs was realized by the failure of the treacherously unfunny "sure thing!"/zeppelin disaster, Joey.

The Ropers actually finished in the Top 10 its first season (it was a mid-season replacement).  Doesn't mean it was good, but it was at least popular.  Then ABC moved it to Saturdays and it got slaughtered by CHiPs

That's cuz CHiPs was the sh*t.

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Originally Posted by Martin Blank 

Correct me if I'm wrong (there's an easy way to check, I just don't feel like it), but wasn't Frasier actually on longer than Cheers?

I believe both lasted 11 seasons.

I love Cheers so much.  It is by far way better than Frasier.

I remember watching Frasier on Thursday nights, but I don't remember dick about it.  I have gone back and watched it on Netflix, and I enjoy the characters so much it has been pretty fun.  It has gotten some decent laughs out of me.  I am wrapping up season 11 now.  The cast is fantastic - especially Mahoney and Hyde-Pierce.  Their dad is such a well-realized everyman character, it makes it easy to enjoy him.  He is an underrated asset for the show and really kept it quite grounded.  Of course, Hyde-Pierce is a damn slapstick genius.  His physical comedy is always a delight.  An episode about halfway through its run has him open the show by himself where he proceeds to go through an entire round of slapstick with the vacuum and other objects. Killed me.

Watching through almost marathon style does help the Niles/Daphne stuff.  It is nowhere near the slog I remembered in its original run.

If Frasier has any obvious flaws it's that the main character isn't a good person.  Frasier Crane is a prick in every sense of the word.  There is still some comedy to be found with the performance, but at this point I almost hate the character with a passion.  He might be one of the most asshole main characters in any show ever.

Cheers is nearly perfection.  Frasier is fairly enjoyable.  Cheers is must-watch.  Frasier, eh, the cast is great and the cameos from Cheers is a delight.  It isn't quite Everybody Loves Raymond as mentioned above, but I understand the context of the comparison.  I was surprised to learn that Christopher Lloyd was a huge driving force and executive producer for Frasier.  (And before that - Wings - a pretty underrated sitcom.)

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Originally Posted by A-Pathetic 

They're supposedly prepping a Dwight-centric spinoff of The Office after it finally dies (which appears to be after this season), focusing on the farm and his bed and breakfast there.

 

That will live or die on the strength of the secondary characters, just like Frasier. Hard to believe there might be a second group of people on the planet who would put up with Dwight.
 

Re: the differences in Frasier the character on the two shows, it's been pointed out that because Frasier was rejigged a bit to make him more of a proper 'lead', Niles is really the one playing the old 'Frasier' role on Frasier's own show. There's a tv trope about it.

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Originally Posted by wd40 

If Frasier has any obvious flaws it's that the main character isn't a good person.  Frasier Crane is a prick in every sense of the word.  There is still some comedy to be found with the performance, but at this point I almost hate the character with a passion.  He might be one of the most asshole main characters in any show ever.

Thing there is it's not like the show isn't aware of it, half Martin's role is to point out what a tit he is. Maybe growing up on brit sitcoms, which routinely have horrible main characters, has made me more receptive to that sort of thing. That said, I watched the first season recently and was struck by how much it revels in Frasier' and Niles' decadent lifestyles, and not always in a mocking way. It really is a 'rich white people's foibles' show.

But it's really good, getting slightly underrated here I think. I think sticking around too long probably hurt its reputation. The last episode of season 1, which is just Niles and Frasier chatting over a coffee, nails that 'witty stageplay' feel of early Cheers that I was gushing about earlier.

"Witty stageplay" captures Frasier perfectly. I think the legacy of the show may have been damaged by it staying on so long, but it was sharp, well-written, and the cast was awesome. At the very least, it deserves credit for giving the great John Mahoney steady paychecks for 11 years.

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Originally Posted by The Rain Dog 

Don't get me wrong, it was a monumental stroke of inspiration and/or good fortune to replace Coach with Woody - Woody was still gold. It was Coachs loveability that drove him over the top.

The actor died during the season so it's not like they had a choice. 

I forgot how they handled that.  Did they address it right away?

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Originally Posted by Judas Booth 

Love CHEERS. I prefer the Coach and Diane years over the later seasons, but that's like preferring Johnnie Walker Blue over Johnnie Walker Green...it's all quality.
My favorite moments on the show generally involved Frazier. The episode where he and Lilith get hot for each other on a TV show is pure gold.
 

 "Abnormal Psychology". Great episode.

 "Abnormal Psychology"

Excellent call. It's pretty much Cheers' "Monorail" episode.

Woody was Coach's pen pal. They had exchanged pens.

 

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Originally Posted by wd40 

Cheers is nearly perfection.  Frasier is fairly enjoyable.  Cheers is must-watch.  Frasier, eh, the cast is great and the cameos from Cheers is a delight.  It isn't quite Everybody Loves Raymond as mentioned above, but I understand the context of the comparison.  I was surprised to learn that Christopher Lloyd was a huge driving force and executive producer for Frasier.  (And before that - Wings - a pretty underrated sitcom.)

 

It's not that Christopher Lloyd. Different guy. Though that Lloyd did do a guest spot on Cheers.

Speaking of Wings, while it wasn't a direct spinoff it did exist in the Cheersiverse. There were a few episodes where Cheers characters crossed over onto Wings.

I miss the backdoor pilots that sitcoms used to play on unsuspecting viewers.   

The most egregious was that Cosby Show episode where they go to a social services office (or something) and then leave you with these people you don't know for the next 25 minutes.   Such a bait and switch those episodes were.

I want to say the last spinoff was "The Parkers" on UPN.   That's the last one I remember.    I think the trend these days is the stealth spin off where an actor you liked from another sitcom reprises that character in another role.   See: "King of Queens"

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Originally Posted by Moltisanti 

Woody was Coach's pen pal. They had exchanged pens.

It's not that Christopher Lloyd. Different guy. Though that Lloyd did do a guest spot on Cheers.

 

Speaking of Wings, while it wasn't a direct spinoff it did exist in the Cheersiverse. There were a few episodes where Cheers characters crossed over onto Wings.

 

I wasn't referring to that Christopher Lloyd.  I meant the writer/producer of Wings and now Modern Family. :)

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Originally Posted by dynamotv 

I miss the backdoor pilots that sitcoms used to play on unsuspecting viewers.   

 

The most egregious was that Cosby Show episode where they go to a social services office (or something) and then leave you with these people you don't know for the next 25 minutes.   Such a bait and switch those episodes were.

 

I want to say the last spinoff was "The Parkers" on UPN.   That's the last one I remember.    I think the trend these days is the stealth spin off where an actor you liked from another sitcom reprises that character in another role.   See: "King of Queens"

Actually now all the crime dramas are doing that.  Well both Criminal Minds and Bones anyway.

I also recall Different Strokes had one were did all the regular characters go.  I believe they did one in which it focuses on these immigrants who are being taught classes on America for their citizenship test and the regulars don't appear until the final 5 minutes.

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Originally Posted by DerekT 

Actually now all the crime dramas are doing that.  Well both Criminal Minds and Bones anyway.

 

Don't forget Law and Order, CSI, and NCIS.

Ugh, that Criminal Minds: Suspect Behavior. Someone wanted that thing to fail. It was badly lit and weirdly written, like the cast were misanthropic, Bizarroverse versions of the original team.

Just remembered the bit where Rebecca is trying to help Sam think of something in his life that doesn't involve women or sex. After a few tries to which Sam replies "Babes," Rebecca offers "What about sailing?" and Sam says "Babes on waves." A buddy and I subsequently quoted that for years as sort of a code word for a pussy-hound friend of ours.

As I recall, Rebecca finally resolves the issue by reminding Sam that he loves the Three Stooges, and chicks hate the Stooges.

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Originally Posted by Richard Dickson 

Don't forget Law and Order, CSI, and NCIS.

 

I can't comment on CSI or NCIS (don't watch those regularly).  I don't recall L&O ever doing that though.

Still the greatest moment in Cheers.