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2012-2013 NFL season - Page 3

post #101 of 3167

It sucks to give up the two 1's but the last few years Shanahan and Allen have proven that they can find quality starters past the first. Hell, this past season 11 of their 12 picks from the last draft had quality starting time and played great to decent. I know that won't happen every year but this club has been dying for a quality QB for about 30 years now and if they believe in Griffin, hell yes you go all in!

post #102 of 3167

Well, Jets fans, you're now hitched to the Mark Sanchez wagon for good.  My deepest condolences.

post #103 of 3167
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecallahan View Post

It sucks to give up the two 1's but the last few years Shanahan and Allen have proven that they can find quality starters past the first. Hell, this past season 11 of their 12 picks from the last draft had quality starting time and played great to decent. I know that won't happen every year but this club has been dying for a quality QB for about 30 years now and if they believe in Griffin, hell yes you go all in!



- if giving up 2 #1s sucks, what does giving up 3 #1s and a #2 do? 

 

- the club has been dying for a quality QB for under 10 yrs. It arguably hasn't really had a "franchise" QB since Jurgensen (depending on how you feel about Theisman), but they've had a parade of solid players - Brad Johnson was fine in 99-00 (and 17-10 as a starter), Brunell was OK enough in his stint there, and I feel that if Jason Campbell had gotten a fair shake he probably would've turned out OK. The franchise's problems IMO start farther up on the totem pole than QB. 

post #104 of 3167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chavez View Post



- if giving up 2 #1s sucks, what does giving up 3 #1s and a #2 do? 

 

- the club has been dying for a quality QB for under 10 yrs. It arguably hasn't really had a "franchise" QB since Jurgensen (depending on how you feel about Theisman), but they've had a parade of solid players - Brad Johnson was fine in 99-00 (and 17-10 as a starter), Brunell was OK enough in his stint there, and I feel that if Jason Campbell had gotten a fair shake he probably would've turned out OK. The franchise's problems IMO start farther up on the totem pole than QB. 



We didn't give up three 1's. We swapped 1's. And as for the decent past QB's, yeah, we had them but we also didn't have stability unlike now (watch Shanahan leave after next season, ugh). I thought Campbell was always decent but not lights out but his problem was dealing with a new OC/System every year.

post #105 of 3167
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecallahan View Post



We didn't give up three 1's. We swapped 1's. 


Semantics - for player x, a team is giving up 3 #1s and a #2, is how I view it. 

 

I saw some people rattle off other situations where teams have done this for one player - GB for John Hadl back in the early 70s, the Herschel Walker trade, the Ricky Williams trade (trying to think of others) - and in general, they don't work out. Eric Dickerson to Indy looked worth it for about a season-and-a-half. 

 

post #106 of 3167

The Bucs traded two first round picks in the same draft to the Jets for Keyshawn Johnson in 2000, and later traded two #1s and two #2s to the Raiders in the Gruden deal in 2002.  Short term, they worked out and got Tampa Bay a Super Bowl win, but long term?  That lack of new top-level talent killed them down the road.

post #107 of 3167

Richard Dickson, Jon Gruden was unable to replace...QB Brad Johnson!  If you do not have a good to great QB, your team will not win many titles.  An Average QB could win a Super Bowl on a team with a terrific Defense, like either...The Ravens or The Bucs.

post #108 of 3167
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by duke fleed View Post

Richard Dickson, Jon Gruden was unable to replace...QB Brad Johnson!  If you do not have a good to great QB, your team will not win many titles.  An Average QB could win a Super Bowl on a team with a terrific Defense, like either...The Ravens or The Bucs.


Or with the head coach of the other team that knows all of their plays ahead of time...

 

post #109 of 3167

Martianman, Well The Raiders should have changed...Something, so Gruden wouldn't know which plays they were calling.  

post #110 of 3167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chavez View Post


Semantics - for player x, a team is giving up 3 #1s and a #2, is how I view it. 

 

I saw some people rattle off other situations where teams have done this for one player - GB for John Hadl back in the early 70s, the Herschel Walker trade, the Ricky Williams trade (trying to think of others) - and in general, they don't work out. Eric Dickerson to Indy looked worth it for about a season-and-a-half. 

 


Semantics aside it's still only 2 number 1's as they get the Rams number one in return. This is a calculated and well though out risk. It cold go great (god I hope so) or it could crash and burn. Hell Chicago gave up two 1's and something else for Cutler right?
post #111 of 3167
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecallahan View Post


Semantics aside it's still only 2 number 1's as they get the Rams number one in return. This is a calculated and well though out risk. It cold go great (god I hope so) or it could crash and burn. Hell Chicago gave up two 1's and something else for Cutler right?


Cutler, whatever you think of him, had proven to be a promising young QB who could play in the NFL. 

 

Griffin is the proverbial 2 birds in the bush (not to pick on him, but every draft pick is, really). 

post #112 of 3167

So, the 49ers are likely passing on Peyton Manning, but are kicking the tires on Randy Moss. Gah.

 

No, that's not enough. Hold on...

 

GUUUUUUUUUUUUUH.

 

Most frivolous uses for a time machine: go back and stop DeBartelo from getting involved in riverboat gambling and thus losing the team.

post #113 of 3167
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farsight View Post

So, the 49ers are likely passing on Peyton Manning, but are kicking the tires on Randy Moss. Gah.

 

No, that's not enough. Hold on...

 

GUUUUUUUUUUUUUH.

 

Most frivolous uses for a time machine: go back and stop DeBartelo from getting involved in riverboat gambling and thus losing the team.


Not ONLY are they looking at Moss, apparently Harbaugh himself is throwing him passes, according to Adam Schefter.  Somewhere, Mike Ditka just had six heart attacks.

 

post #114 of 3167
Thread Starter 

Redskins and Cowboys lose cap space this year (and the next, if they want to spread it out) due to illegal bonuses in the uncapped year.  Washington loses $36(!) million dollars in space and Dallas loses $10 million.  So much for all the cap space Washington had for FAs.

post #115 of 3167

Ugh.  Typical. 

post #116 of 3167

On the bright side, we don't have to worry about squeezing a first rounder under the cap for the next two years, either! All part of the plan....

 

 

(Ugh.)

post #117 of 3167

Great, now the Bucs are going to over-spend on Vincent Jackson without the Redskins around the grossly over-pay him.

post #118 of 3167

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martianman View Post

Redskins and Cowboys lose cap space this year (and the next, if they want to spread it out) due to illegal bonuses in the uncapped year.  Washington loses $36(!) million dollars in space and Dallas loses $10 million.  So much for all the cap space Washington had for FAs.


Actually, how does this work?  The more I read up on it, the less sense I make of it.  There was no CBA in 2010, so there was no binding agreement between owners in regards to spending.  But other NFL owners decided that this was an unfair advantage, and that the new CBA would adjust retroactively, so Jones and Snyder were warned about this.  But isn't agreeing on an informal cap like that considered collusion?

 

 

 

post #119 of 3167

I would think the issue would be something like doing a contract where you pay a player, say, 40 million in the uncapped year, then 1 million a year for the next 4 capped years.

post #120 of 3167

Dallas (and I guess Washington, but fuck them) got screwed. Whose to decide what contracts in the uncapped year aren't kosher? Seems way too arbitrary to me. Why did the players association agree to the penalty?

post #121 of 3167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farsight View Post

I would think the issue would be something like doing a contract where you pay a player, say, 40 million in the uncapped year, then 1 million a year for the next 4 capped years.



That's pretty much it.  And the lost cap space will be evenly distributed among all the remaining teams except the Saints and Raiders, who apparently pulled similar moves, just not as severely.  So that's an extra $1.6 million in cap space for 28 of the teams.

post #122 of 3167

So, my guy who has a guy says that both teams are happily ignoring the "penalties" -- I think both have already released statements as such -- and proceeding into the market as normal, all ready to lawyer up if necessary. Because, neither team received anything written from the NFL on the matter, therefore it can't be enforced. If it comes in writing, Danny and Jerry have open and shut cases. (No evidence of genuine wrongdoing, and "Everyone didn't do it" is weak sauce.) The league was hoping to do this off the record. Roger, what the fuck were you thinking. If this is true, this should be his job.

 

Though i still like the idea of someone in the league office just fucking with Adam Schefter.

post #123 of 3167
Re: The Peyton faces...
 
The Dolphins could have just posted his face and had the same result.
post #124 of 3167

With free agency a few hours away, the league still hasn't sent anything in writing to Dallas or DC. What a clusterfuck.

post #125 of 3167

The head of the NFL Management Council is the owner of the Giants.  Conspiracy!

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/id/36923/cap-controversy-shows-nfl-at-its-worst

post #126 of 3167

Jay Glazer just tweeted that the Bears have traded two 3rd round picks to the Dolphins for Brandon Marshall.  Let the games begin!

 

EDIT:  I'd heard Manning wasn't thrilled about playing with Marshall.  Preparations for his arrival in Miami?

post #127 of 3167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post

Jay Glazer just tweeted that the Bears have traded two 3rd round picks to the Dolphins for Brandon Marshall.  Let the games begin!


Yes, yes and yes.  Bout motherfuckin time we spent on a WR.  9 seasons without a 1,000 yard receiver.  That's no way to win in this league.

post #128 of 3167

Unbelieveable!  Miami Trades...Brandon Marshall?  The other receivers are...Solid but...Unspectacular!  After...QB, I think WR should be their priority in Free Agency and The Draft!

post #129 of 3167

Pierre Garcon just posted on his Facebook page that he'll be signing with the Redskins.  That's give RGIII a nice speedy target.

 

EDIT:  And some of the comments are about as classy as you might imagine they'd be.

post #130 of 3167

whoops double post

post #131 of 3167

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post

Pierre Garcon just posted on his Facebook page that he'll be signing with the Redskins.  That's give RGIII a nice speedy target.


Not too shabby.  Between him, Moss, and Fred Davis, RG3 should have plenty of solid receivers.

 

Also, Orton apparently visiting Dallas.  Tony Romo: Ouch!

post #132 of 3167

Well the Bucs are coming strong out of the gate.  They've signed/are about to sign Vincent Jackson, LB Curtis Lofton from the Falcons, and LG Carl Nicks from the Saints.  And David Carr is visiting about possibly being the backup.  Hell, I'd be happy if we didn't do another thing after today, if all of that pans out.

post #133 of 3167

Redskins are neck deep in the bargain bin it seems, trying to sign Eddie Royal and Josh Morgan as well.  The Hokie in me is ok with this (I wear my Deangelo Hall jersey with pride, despite his general bad-ness), but I dunno if I approve of this quantity over quality approach.    

post #134 of 3167

And the Jags twiddle their thumbs. Come on, sign somebody. You know, other than your own damn punter.

post #135 of 3167
Quote:
Originally Posted by JuddL View Post


Yes, yes and yes.  Bout motherfuckin time we spent on a WR.  9 seasons without a 1,000 yard receiver.  That's no way to win in this league.



Bears should be charged with theft in that trade.  About time we got a top tier WR.  Now get another WR and some line/LB help

 

post #136 of 3167

Between the 49ers getting Moss and the Bears getting Marhsall, I don't know whether to be happy my teams got help at WR, or scared they got a couple of chemistry fucking divas.

post #137 of 3167

And, of course, all the Bucs news was "premature," although they're deep in talks with Jackson, and they're the only visit Nicks has scheduled.

post #138 of 3167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bailey View Post

Between the 49ers getting Moss and the Bears getting Marhsall, I don't know whether to be happy my teams got help at WR, or scared they got a couple of chemistry fucking divas.



Marshal was diagnosed with Borderline personality disorder so his diva status is questionable.

 

post #139 of 3167

I just meant it as shorthand for guys who give problems.  I'm sure Moss has his share of mental issues.

post #140 of 3167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post

And, of course, all the Bucs news was "premature," although they're deep in talks with Jackson, and they're the only visit Nicks has scheduled.


 

So I guess it's done.  The AFC West keeps getting weaker, which has to make Denver even more attractive for Peyton.

post #141 of 3167

Jackson to the Bucs, five years, just under $56 million, $26 million guaranteed over the first two years.  Way for the Glazers to put the cheap label to be in spectacular fashion.

post #142 of 3167
Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzy dunlop View Post

Redskins are neck deep in the bargain bin it seems, trying to sign Eddie Royal and Josh Morgan as well.  The Hokie in me is ok with this (I wear my Deangelo Hall jersey with pride, despite his general bad-ness), but I dunno if I approve of this quantity over quality approach.    



Have fun with Garcon. He's fast, and it's amazing yards after the catch, but the man has to catch the ball first. A #1 receiver he is not. And wow did the Redskins over pay for him.  I'm just happy that Reggie Wayne is back with the Colts. I guess Luck will have someone to throw it too.

post #143 of 3167

*sigh*

 

For the last five years, Bucs fans have done nothing but complain that the team didn't spend on free agents, that the Glazers were cheap, that they only cared about Manchester United.  So yesterday, the team came strong out of the gate, went hard after the player they wanted, and signed Vincent Jackson to a huge contract.

 

And now Bucs fans are calling the morning show in Tampa complaining about how much money they gave him and comparing it to the Alvin Harper signing.

 

I'm convinced the Bucs have some of the worst fans in the NFL.

post #144 of 3167

Apparently, Brandon Marshall was in a fight in a bar in NYC, just...2 days before being traded to Chicago.  This is a situation that...Bears, watching, as Chicago might want to cancel the trade.

post #145 of 3167

Tampa Bay just signed CB Eric Wright away from the Lions, five-year deal, no financial terms yet.  If we can get the Nicks deal done, that's three veterans in areas where the team could really use some veteran leadership.  Huge off-season so far for the Bucs.

post #146 of 3167
Thread Starter 

Tolbert, the do everything back from San Diego, mentioned on NFL radio that he's looking at the Steelers possibly.  That would be awesome.  Finnegan comes back to Fisher in St. Louis.  Colston re-signs with New Orleans.  Jason Campbell signs with Chicago.

 

Report on TSN.com says Peyton will choose between Denver and Tennessee.  Apparently there is some drive for him to stay in the AFC so there can possibly be a Manning vs. Manning Super Bowl one day.  What-the-fuck-ever.  I still think Arizona would be the optimal place for him.  Also, what can Tebow think of all this?  Just months after Elway says he's "my guy".

post #147 of 3167

So the Chargers let Vincent Jackson AND Mike Tolbert walk? But signed Robert Meachem? Holy crap, what are they thinking?

Now if Manning just signs anywhere else BUT Denver....the Chiefs odds of winning the division keep getting better.

post #148 of 3167
Thread Starter 

Tolbert could stay with San Diego, but in that interview, they didn't even ask him if he was looking, and he came out and said Pittsburgh and another team (can't remember which one) had him very interested.

post #149 of 3167
Quote:
Originally Posted by duke fleed View Post

Apparently, Brandon Marshall was in a fight in a bar in NYC, just...2 days before being traded to Chicago.



Turns out that Chicago and Miami knew of this and went forward with the trade, according to Chicago's GM.  Maybe the team believes Cutler and the new QB coach from Denver will be a positive influence on Marshall and keep him under control which they couldn't in Miami.  Whatever happens going forward this upcoming season in Chicago will be interesting.

post #150 of 3167

Marshall's people released a statement that said that while there was an altercation at the night club he and his wife were at, the extent of their involvement was her getting hit with a beer bottle as they were trying to leave the club and pushing their way through the melee to get to their car.  So maybe the Bears believe/verified his version of events.

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