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Why Don’t Americans Elect Scientists?

post #1 of 47
Thread Starter 

Good question given that we are in an election year...

 

article from NY Times.

 

Quote:

Why Don’t Americans Elect Scientists?

 

I’ve visited Singapore a few times in recent years and been impressed with its wealth and modernity. I was also quite aware of its world-leading programs in mathematics education and naturally noted that one of the candidates for president was Tony Tan, who has a Ph.D. in applied mathematics. Tan won the very close election and joined the government of Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong, who also has a degree in mathematics.

 

China has even more scientists in key positions in the government. President Hu Jintao was trained as a hydraulic engineer and Premier Wen Jiabao as a geomechanical engineer. In fact, eight out of the nine top government officials in China have scientific backgrounds. There is a scattering of scientist-politicians in high government positions in other countries as well. German Chancellor Angela Merkel has a doctorate in physical chemistry, and, going back a bit, Margaret Thatcher earned a degree in chemistry.

 

One needn’t endorse the politics of these people or countries to feel that given the complexities of an ever more technologically sophisticated world, the United States could benefit from the participation and example of more scientists in government. This is obviously no panacea — Herbert Hoover was an engineer, after all — but more people with scientific backgrounds would be a welcome counterweight to the vast majority of legislators and other officials in this country who are lawyers.

 

Among the 435 members of the House, for example, there are one physicist, one chemist, one microbiologist, six engineers and nearly two dozen representatives with medical training. The case of doctors and the body politic is telling. Everyone knows roughly what doctors do, and so those with medical backgrounds escape the anti-intellectual charge of irrelevance often thrown at those in the hard sciences. Witness Senator Bill Frist, Gov. Howard Dean and even Ron Paul.

 

<cont.>

 

 

and a related opinion piece from Aug. 2011

 

Quote:

 

New York Times

August 21, 2011

 

Part of collection of opinions on the topic: If I Were President... which appeared in the Sunday Review section. What follows is the unedited version of what was published.

 

The question, “If I were President I’d…” implies that if you swap out one leader, put in another, then all will be well with America—as though our leaders are the cause of all ailments.

 

That must be why we’ve created a tradition of rampant attacks on our politicians. Are they too conservative for you? Too liberal? Too religious? Too atheist? Too gay? Too anti-gay? Too rich? Too dumb? Too smart? Too ethnic? Too philanderous? 

Curious behavior, given that we elect 88% of Congress every two years.

 

A second tradition-in-progress is the expectation that everyone else in our culturally pluralistic land should hold exactly your own outlook, on all issues.

 

When you’re scientifically literate, the world looks different to you. It’s a particular way of questioning what you see and hear. When empowered by this state of mind, objective realities matter. These are the truths of the world that exist outside of whatever your belief system tells you.

 

One objective reality is that our government doesn’t work, not because we have dysfunctional politicians, but because we have dysfunctional voters. As a scientist and educator, my goal, then, is not to become President and lead a dysfunctional electorate, but to enlighten the electorate so they might choose the right leaders in the first place.

 

Neil deGrasse Tyson

 

others chime in...

 

If I Were President...

 

 

 


Edited by VTRan - 2/15/12 at 7:22pm
post #2 of 47

Hasn't the west basically given up on supporting the great thinkers among them unless their ideas can be commodified into making massive profits for large corporations?

post #3 of 47

Warren/degrasse Tyson 2016!

post #4 of 47

Conveniently, the joke answer and the real answer are the same answer!

post #5 of 47
post #6 of 47


...and whats the statistical breakdown on witch burnings?

post #7 of 47

Scientists are too smart to want to run for office.

post #8 of 47
Thread Starter 


The structure of the 3 questions that are asked strike me as being very manipulative....why isn't there an option that doesn't include the concept of 'god'?

 

egqoo3sa4ksftdt5itigsg.gif

 

post #9 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by VTRan View Post


The structure of the 3 questions that are asked strike me as being very manipulative....why isn't there an option that doesn't include the concept of 'god'?

 



Because that would require a level of mature rationality unheard of in a debate completely hijacked by myopic fundamentalists and flat-earth witch-burners?

post #10 of 47

Because Maximus is the best choice to be Caesar, but with all his heart he doesn't want power, which is why he'd be a great Caesar.

post #11 of 47

Why Don’t Americans Elect Scientists?

 

Because...

island of dr. moreau marlon brando.jpg

...scientists...

dr. hans reinhardt the black hole.jpg

..are...

Rice Krispies Centipede.jpg

...jerks.

post #12 of 47

Scientists thrive on rationality and objectivity to get the best results.  Religion thrives on blame, laziness and blind hero worship in order to feel good in the moment, ignoring the future.  Most American voters fall into the second category and that's why scientists aren't going to be elected here.

post #13 of 47

Because scientists got shit to do.

post #14 of 47

^^ True dat. Scientists are too busy trying to fix the problems the politicians made in the first place.

post #15 of 47

Well...the Right makes a pretty regular habit of bashing any highly-educated intellectuals as being "out of touch with the common man" (mostly because those with higher education levels tend to skew more towards the left), and the Left would probably prefer that the scientists continue to do more important things than pander to would-be constituents and get in endless arguments with the Right..

 

That having been said....Michio Kaku in 2012!

post #16 of 47

This is why: 

post #17 of 47
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackyShimSham View Post

This is why: 

 

I'd forgotten about that video....hayseuss kristos....

 

Here's another inane congress member:

Rep. John Shimkus: God decides when the "earth will end"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7h08RDYA5E
 

While these vids might be somewhat amusing on first viewing, they end up infuriating me a good deal more...

post #18 of 47



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackyShimSham View Post

This is why: 

 


You want to know what's really infuriating. Check the last few seconds again, and catch the cocky look this douche gives. He thinks that Chu is the idiot, and he himself knows better.

 

You can't make up that level of ignorance, even if you tried.
 

 


Edited by BoatMan - 2/16/12 at 2:44pm
post #19 of 47



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmacq1 View Post

Well...the Right makes a pretty regular habit of bashing any highly-educated intellectuals as being "out of touch with the common man" (mostly because those with higher education levels tend to skew more towards the left), and the Left would probably prefer that the scientists continue to do more important things than pander to would-be constituents and get in endless arguments with the Right..

 

That having been said....Michio Kaku in 2012!



 Exactly. Unfortunately being smart or educated in this country is now looked down upon. Having the label "Scientist" next to your name on the ballot would be a huge stigma to overcome.

post #20 of 47

 Why don't we? Because it makes way too much sense. Instead, we like pitchmen (basically guys who wanted to be jocks, comedians, or rock stars) to stand at the podium and spout ideology that reminds ignorant people of the good old days. Pragmatism and objective reasoning simply don't rouse the masses like meaningless "Freedom and Liberty" tropes do.

 

 

 

 

post #21 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoatMan View Post

You want to know what's really infuriating. Check the last few seconds again, and catch the cocky look this douche gives. He thinks that Chu is the idiot, and he himself know better.

 

You can't make up that level of ignorance, even if you tried.


Yep. It's like watching someone declare himself an Olympic swimmer while standing ankle deep in a kiddie pool.

 

post #22 of 47
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviathan Joe View Post

 Why don't we? Because it makes way too much sense. Instead, we like pitchmen (basically guys who wanted to be jocks, comedians, or rock stars) to stand at the podium and spout ideology that reminds ignorant people of the good old days. Pragmatism and objective reasoning simply don't rouse the masses like meaningless "Freedom and Liberty" tropes do.

 

someone isn't amused with this opinion....

 

pres-camacho.jpg

 

post #23 of 47

The majority of scientists were wrong about Krypton's ecological state, and look what happened to them. There was but one survivor thanks to the work of a dissenting voice from the debate. Can we afford such folly? 


Edited by Dr Vivisector - 2/17/12 at 4:54am
post #24 of 47

Science should be providing the government with facts. When science is politicized (as it would be here by definition), people will just disagree with it as a matter of course. Science should remain independent of politics.

post #25 of 47

I believe there's an interview floating around online somewhere when Tyson addressed this question: his basic premise is that almost everyone in congress and federal government comes from Ivy-League and prestigious law-schools where the ability to argue vigorously is prized above everything else, whether the position be right or wrong.  The gist of it was: where are all the engineers?  You want a problem solved, you get people who are used to finding ways to compromise and work with what's available and get it accomplished.  As it stands now we just have a two-party system that just wants to say it "won" an issue whenever they can so they can keep their jobs.  

post #26 of 47
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeI View Post

Science should be providing the government with facts. When science is politicized (as it would be here by definition), people will just disagree with it as a matter of course. Science should remain independent of politics.


The problem is that in this day and age, the two are intertwined. The gov. subsidizes a good deal of scientific endeavors (NASA, DARPA, et al) ...AS well it should, IMO.

 

One of the main issues is that the people (politicians) that choose to disagree with facts offered up by 'science' and scientists are, more likely than not,  ill-equipped to comprehend the information offered up.

Instead of being honest and admitting that they are ignorant of the issue at hand, they go into a defensive and argumentative posture to conceal this ignorance....this is especially true if the facts offered up directly contradict the religious beliefs they were raised with.

 

post #27 of 47
Thread Starter 

I posted this a while back over in the the "misc. culture" thread....seems as good a place as any to re-post it and to put it simply, it's awesome.

 

Stephen Colbert Interviews Neil deGrasse Tyson at Montclair Kimberley Academy - 2010-Jan-29

(skip to 6:15 to jump to the actual interview)

 

post #28 of 47


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by VTRan View Post

I posted this a while back over in the the "misc. culture" thread....seems as good a place as any to re-post it and to put it simply, it's awesome.

 

Stephen Colbert Interviews Neil deGrasse Tyson at Montclair Kimberley Academy - 2010-Jan-29

(skip to 6:15 to jump to the actual interview)

 

 


Good stuff. When I started the video I had no intention of watching the whole thing. An hour and a half later I am thankful I finished it. But I am saddened that what he wants isn't happening, and won't be anytime soon. Our best and brightest are going into finance and business management, which essentially means they are making things worse.

 

By the way, the part that is most relevant to this thread starts at roughly 1:10.

 

 

post #29 of 47

<3 Neil DeGrasse Tyson.  The scenario we find ourselves in isn't random -- I think it's deliberate.  Science can be an enemy to "growth," which means the real power in this country -- the big corporations -- have a vested interest in ghettoizing science, making it seem suspicious and dangerous rather than objective. 

post #30 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by yt View Post

<3 Neil DeGrasse Tyson.  The scenario we find ourselves in isn't random -- I think it's deliberate.  Science can be an enemy to "growth," which means the real power in this country -- the big corporations -- have a vested interest in ghettoizing science, making it seem suspicious and dangerous rather than objective. 



Come on now, we've all seen V, how the hell are the lizard people goingt o maintain control with scientists around.

 

...and Tyson is the next logical presidential step after Obama because...

 

Screen-shot-2012-02-19-at-6.23.38-PM.png

 

Oh hell yeah

post #31 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rain Dog View Post



Come on now, we've all seen V, how the hell are the lizard people goingt o maintain control with scientists around.

 

...and Tyson is the next logical presidential step after Obama because...

 

Screen-shot-2012-02-19-at-6.23.38-PM.png

 

Oh hell yeah


Make it so!

 

post #32 of 47
Thread Starter 

FYI

NDT is supposed to be on The Daily Show tonight (Mon 2/27)

post #33 of 47
Thread Starter 

NDT on the Daily Show ....check out his observation at the end of the interview.

 

http://www.hulu.com/watch/333778/the-daily-show-with-jon-stewart-mon-feb-27-2012

 

(using the Hulu link as the video links at the Comedy Central website seems to be experiencing problems)

post #34 of 47

Cool. I came in here just to post Tyson's appearance on The Daily Show.

 

It's pure gold & EVERYBODY needs to see it.  In fact, it's imperative.

post #35 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Decade View Post

Cool. I came in here just to post Tyson's appearance on The Daily Show.

 

It's pure gold & EVERYBODY needs to see it.  In fact, it's imperative.


Yea, it was great.  He lays it things out beautifully.  The space program is obviously more than a novelty, or luxury, but it's also so much more than an opportunity to push for scientific innovation, or even inspiration.  It's a mindset.  It's a way of placing the mundane in it's proper cosmic perspective.  It's a quasi-religious sense of awe that we need each and every day so that we don't lose sight of our simultaneous fragility and power.

post #36 of 47
Thread Starter 

March 7, 2012 - Dr. Neil deGrasse Tyson speaking at the U.S. Senate Commerce, Science and Transportation hearing

on Priorities, Plans and Progress of the Nation's Space Program.

 

 

post #37 of 47
Thread Starter 

slight remix of NDT ...even more inspiring w/the help of a little uplifting music.

 

 

post #38 of 47

The Most Astounding Fact About The Universe

As Told By Neil DeGrasse Tyson

 

post #39 of 47

That seriously gave me goosebumps.

post #40 of 47
Thread Starter 

I watched that last night. NDT is on my very short list of people I would love to sit and have a coffee with.

 

If I were Romney-rich, I'd buy up commercial time on prime time TV and broadcast these NDT videos.

 

IMO, the more people that see them the better....specifically, more kids need to see them.

We need to dream big again...I think it can benefit us scientifically and psychologically as a species.  

post #41 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by VTRan View Post

I watched that last night. NDT is on my very short list of people I would love to sit and have a coffee with.

 

If I were Romney-rich, I'd buy up commercial time on prime time TV and broadcast these NDT videos.

 

IMO, the more people that see them the better....specifically, more kids need to see them.

We need to dream big again...I think it can benefit us scientifically and psychologically as a species.  


As a species we're suffering from information entropy.  There's just too much to wrap our brains around, and I wonder whether or not the overwhelming scope of it all has dulled our collective sense of curiosity.

 

post #42 of 47

Maybe I'm just pessimistic and out of touch though.

post #43 of 47
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JuddL View Post


As a species we're suffering from information entropy.  There's just too much to wrap our brains around, and I wonder whether or not the overwhelming scope of it all has dulled our collective sense of curiosity.

 

 

I think there needs to be a distinction made between "good information" and "bad information" or to make it simpler...complete bullshit.

 

While we are deluged with media these days, I would say a good 75% (more?) of it is crap like "who's winning American Idol" or "who's the next Beiber" or  "the president is a radical Muslim terrorist" or " Palin is more than qualified to be VP" or "America's stupidest people who film themselves doing stupid shit"...(hell, this is pretty much "OW, My Balls!" but we just aren't calling it that) or "who's fucking a Kardashian"...etc. etc.

 

There is 'good', smart, mentally stimulating, rational information out there...it just is becoming harder and harder to find.

 

IMO, as a society, we've become infected with a myopic, narcissistic blipvert-like disease and I really want to believe that we will eventually find a cure....at least before 'The Walking Dead' ends up becoming a show on the Biography channel.

 

It might be true that there is going to be a lost generation whose only concern is tweeting what they had for lunch but..."I'm tryin', Ringo. I'm tryin' real hard" ...to remain optimistic about the future (damn you Gene Roddenberry) even if I don't have a personal jetpack...yet. 

 

post #44 of 47

That's a part of what I mean I guess, there's so much information, good and bad, that it's really difficult to filter.  That's the entropy part.

What we need, and what I believe the Internet promises (and if I were more of an entrepreneur I'd try to realize) is this:

An open, public Internet forum where our brightest minds discuss the most important topics of the day.  A place where those who advocate a certain point of view, and are qualified to do so, can come together and comment directly on what one-another has to say.  For example:  I love reading Paul Krugman's blog, I love that he usually provides links to articles he comments on and criticizes, and backs up his views with empirical data shared within a given post.  But wouldn't it be great if those economists he disagreed with had an opportunity to respond in kind in a structured, easy to follow discussion format available to the public?  Not in a one-off, debate style format, but a persistent text-based platform that can be organized according to topic.

I feel like we're trapped in a 20th century framework of discussion where those who advocate a certain point of view are partitioned within disparate corners of the blogosphere and media-outlet ecosystem.  What we wind up with is everyone either talking past one another or preaching to the choir.  What we need is a place where important opinions, arguments and conversations cannot be ignored or mischaracterized because the discussion is self-policed by those who are participating.

post #45 of 47
Thread Starter 

Neil deGrasse Tyson joins us to discuss his new book Space Chronicles: Facing the Ultimate Frontier, and much more, with David Pakman.

The David Pakman Show is an internationally syndicated talk radio and television program hosted by David Pakman

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nlWLdlB7J8

post #46 of 47
Thread Starter 

some more NDT preachin' the space exploration gospel....can I get an AMEN !

:)

 

Dr. Neil deGrasse Tyson: Launch Keynote: 28th National Space Symposium

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=VLzKjxglNyE

post #47 of 47
...because the skills required for methodical study, analysis, and application of knowledge about the natural world and the skills required for successfully running a country are very loosely related at best?
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