Time for a new Matrix discussion - Page 2

The problem is that the meta-narrative took over the narrative.  For me anyway.

Ideally I think your rampant symbolism and sub text should unite with the main subject at the end of the story. But thanks to much that happened even after the Matrix they had become inextricable before the sequels even started.  All the weird plot contortions and introductions get this instant apology as being about something else, despite actively working against the main story being as coherent as we'd like it to be.  You even get people saying that the fight scenes being ever more technical and lifeless as things went on is a metaphor (man) for the (like) deterministic world view the film is (like) trying to slide into your consciousness.  Hmm, no, sorry.  Being engaging is more important.

I'm not against it as a project and I've warmed to it over the years, after my initial irritation.  I generally enjoy it and get what they're trying to do.  But there's almost no one who can pull this off well.  It's ambitious but not impossible.  Try as they might the Watchowskis together couldn't be one Alan Moore.

Nooj nails it.  The first is more focused in it's philosophical musings, while the sequels touch on this incredible breadth of religious/philosophical topic, but only in passing and even that is obfuscated by the distractingly convoluted plot.  The original had that warm, familiar blanket of a heroic structure to make the pontificating go down smoother, in addition to marrying its most ponderous thematic moments to memorable visuals.  Red pill, blue pill.  Cypher's juicy steak.  The spoon that isn't.  I'm trying to think of a similar bit of philosophizing in the sequels that had a striking image to illustrate it, and all I can conjure is a bunch of people in dark clothes lecturing other people in dark clothes (and frequently, sunglasses). 

Yes!  That's exactly what I wanted to get across about how well the first film was told visually/cinematically.

In the sequels, the Zion elder is all:

"Man... I wanna talk to you about the machines."

And refers to a bunch of... machines.

The Merovingian did has his Orgasm Cake, I guess. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schwartz 

Nooj nails it.  The first is more focused in it's philosophical musings, while the sequels touch on this incredible breadth of religious/philosophical topic, but only in passing and even that is obfuscated by the distractingly convoluted plot.  The original had that warm, familiar blanket of a heroic structure to make the pontificating go down smoother, in addition to marrying its most ponderous thematic moments to memorable visuals.  Red pill, blue pill.  Cypher's juicy steak.  The spoon that isn't.  I'm trying to think of a similar bit of philosophizing in the sequels that had a striking image to illustrate it, and all I can conjure is a bunch of people in dark clothes lecturing other people in dark clothes (and frequently, sunglasses). 

Colonel Sanders.

Running into a clip from I HEART HUCKABEES on Youtube, I realized that David O. Russell's film may be cinematic cousins with the Matrix sequels. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Rain Dog 

I diagree - in my opinion, it worked like gangbusters. You're looking at this as a screenwriter and deciding the story you would have written - but you didn't write it.

 

You seem to be judging the sequels on what you wanted them to be and what you wanted them to achieve rather than on what they actually are and what the Wachowskis were setting out to do.

 

I dunno, it smacks of hubris to me.

This accurately describes about 80% of the film criticism on this board. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcnooj82 

 

The Merovingian did has his Orgasm Cake, I guess. 

Even that depicts the orgasm via lines of computer code.  Points for trying to show while you're telling, but it's also a little too easy to use that as a metaphor for the series depiction of human emotion in general.

Another great image from the original: Morpheus holding up a Duracell.  Not an Acme Brand C Cell Battery, but the most recognizable type on the planet.   Which rather than distract with product placement, serves to underline the dehumanizing nature of the Matrix even further as we associate it with big soulless companies that bleed their employees/customers dry to produce profits the little people will never see (...).  Plus, it has that dark two-tone color scheme that fits into the look of the Matrix in a way that an Energizer Lithium's Extreme Cool Ranch design wouldn't.