TAG TEAM REVIEW: JOHN CARTER

Honestly at this point I'm more fascinated in the journey of the Disney marketing department and just what the fuck they were thinking when it came to this film than the actual movie itself.

Thanks for touching on that in the review guys, sounds like something my nephew would enjoy.

nice review.  I'm in two minds as to whether to take the (6 year old) daughter to it.  I think she'd be into it, but the battle scenes look fairly intense.  I also think she'd freak out with the giant gorillas.

hmmmm...

Yeah I'm really hoping this is kid-friendly enough for my 8 year old nephew, seems right up his alley.

Yeah, I'd say this is right up an eight year old boy's alley, unless he has had a very sheltered viewing experience so far in life. 

Bain, without knowing your daughter's threshold for scariness, it is harder to say. Much less scary than a Harry Potter film. More of a STAR WARS level. The white apes scene isn't that scary, though Carter does kill one by essentially tunneling through it with a sword and popping out the otherside covered in green gore. Sooo... yeah.

Girls should dig Dejah though. Great female role model shizzle.

Nice review, even if the praise comes with some serious reservations. I have two notes:

1. If you're going to "have to" talk about the 3D, please remember to mention whether the movie in question was actually shot in stereo (like Avatar and Hugo) or post-converted (like John Carter). It makes a difference.

2. Reign over. Rein in.

Thanks for catching the typo. Fixed.

Son of a bitch. This feels much much worse than the film actually sucking. Dammit.

Great review, guys. Now I am even more eager to see the film, and even more annoyed at Disney's marketing department. Seriously, when those guys are on their game, they can sell damn near anything. What happened here?

Originally Posted by Joshua Miller 
Yeah, I'd say this is right up an eight year old boy's alley...

Pardon?

Yeah, sounds like Stanton and Co. did justice to the book.  Be there first day.

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Originally Posted by Joshua Miller 

Yeah, I'd say this is right up an eight year old boy's alley, unless he has had a very sheltered viewing experience so far in life. 

 

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Originally Posted by SeanCE 

 

Pardon?

Sean, can you honestly say you've never visited that alley? And that it wasn't filled with whimsy? 

I'm glad people dig the review. Josh and I seemed to be really on the same page with this one, there seems to be an almost universal agreement amongst critics that the film does not suck.

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Originally Posted by Bluelouboyle 

Are the locations used well?

Yes/no. They did a lot of location shooting in Utah, which certainly opens things up visually from just being endless green screen, but I could also used some more landscape fetishizing like Jackson did with LOTR. Or maybe the problem there (for me) is that I've just seen Utah a million times before, in life and in film.

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Originally Posted by Chris Spider 

What happened here?

Fear. I don't know if they had a disastrous early test-screening or what, but someone with the authority to change the course of that ship panicked a while ago. "Mars" had to leave the title. Girls won't see a movie with "Mars!" in the title! Then for some reason they didn't seem to want to hype that the character of John Carter is 100 years old, or from the man who created Tarzan. Then they didn't seem to want to highlight how funny the movie is. Some trailers actually try to make the movie look super serious. The newest trailer never even shows a Thark in close-up or speaking, I think trying to stay away from AVATAR comparisons. It is just a mess, when all they had to do was make an honest trailer and a decent chunk of the population would have gotten excited. It's a textbook case of ruining your marketing by operating out of fear of what you think people DON'T want to see.

One thing that has been getting a little ignored is Mark Strong, who appears to be doing his generic "Mark Strong acting" while standing in front of lots of green screen. Does he actually have anything to do, or is he pretty much background villain dressing?

Tim argued that he had TOO much to do. It is a stock performance for Strong by now, which isn't to say it isn't good. But certainly not inspired casting for him at this point. He has plenty to do though. He's the main villain.

He's very much like a Star Trek: TNG villain. Also very monotone for such a front and center role.

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Originally Posted by Joshua Miller 

Yeah, I'd say this is right up an eight year old boy's alley, unless he has had a very sheltered viewing experience so far in life. 

 

Bain, without knowing your daughter's threshold for scariness, it is harder to say. Much less scary than a Harry Potter film. More of a STAR WARS level. The white apes scene isn't that scary, though Carter does kill one by essentially tunneling through it with a sword and popping out the otherside covered in green gore. Sooo... yeah.

 

Girls should dig Dejah though. Great female role model shizzle.

thanks for that Joshua, she's a Star Wars fanatic and did RotS without batting an eye.  Mint, that's us booked for Saturday then :)

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Originally Posted by roboTimKelly 

He's very much like a Star Trek: TNG villain. Also very monotone for such a front and center role.

Performance-wise, pretty much everyone except for Lynn Collins is a little TOO subdued. (Collins is perfect as Dejah Thoris.) It's good that the actors are treating the material seriously and respectfully - it's very much in keeping with Stanton's directorial approach - but I can't help but feel JOHN CARTER's overall energy would have benefited from Taylor Kitsch being more Harrison Ford than Clint Eastwood and Dominic West chewing the scenery a bit more (as he so enjoyably can).

I'm glad someone else had made a ROCKETEER comparison. That's the movie it reminds of. That, or a good Indiana Jones sequel like LAST CRUSADE.

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Originally Posted by Andy Bain 

thanks for that Joshua, she's a Star Wars fanatic and did RotS without batting an eye.  Mint, that's us booked for Saturday then :)

Now I am curious what she thinks. Give us the lil' girl review afterwards!

Originally Posted by roboTimKelly 
He's very much like a Star Trek: TNG villain. Also very monotone for such a front and center role.

Oh fuck, that's exactly what I feared. I'm so optimistic, but I get the feeling, as much as the positive word of mouth is, I'm going to end up disliking it because of the villains and the lead. Cock. Cock. Cock.

Great review, guys. Looks like this thing turned out quite a bit better than I was expecting.

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Originally Posted by Judas Booth 


If she were perfect, she'd be naked like she is in the books. Hard to get that PG 13 rating that way, though.

Just close your eyes and think of Season 1 of TRUE BLOOD.

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Originally Posted by SeanCE 

 

Oh fuck, that's exactly what I feared. I'm so optimistic, but I get the feeling, as much as the positive word of mouth is, I'm going to end up disliking it because of the villains and the lead. Cock. Cock. Cock.

I say go in with an open mind. These things don't sink the greater film, honestly. I walked away thinking it was a lot of fun. If you think you'll like the film, chances are you probably will. It's one of those.

Showed the little fella the trailer in HD on my telly last night, he got pretty damn excited - loved the giant ape creatures most of all. I get the feeling he'll be blown away considering how much I know the trailer isn't showing. Looks like it's the movies for us this weekend.

I kinda loved this the way I loved Tintin.  I had story issues with Tintin too, but when it came to actually watching the film, I got swept up.  

Lynn Collins... oh my.  She's so damned good.  It's a shame that the plot dictates that she is off-screen for quite a bit of the last third of the film.  Definitely the best performance in the film, top to bottom.  The character just felt so alive.

Kitsch.  I'm already a fan of him through Friday Night Lights, so I'll probably be more forgiving.  There are moments where he really is playing this as Tim Riggins of Mars and those are the moments he shines.  Like Orlando Bloom in Kingdom of Heaven, he doesn't work quite as well when he needs to rally the troops.

The 3D?  You can take it or leave it.  It didn't bug me and sometimes looked kinda nice (as long as the projection is strong).  But really, after the shit post-conversion of Phantom Menace, I'm also probably very forgiving here.  More likely... you should leave it and go for a 2D showing.  I'll be seeing it in 3D again though, since I'll be going to an IMAX showing on Thursday night.

I was a tad bit nervous at first.  Joshua and Tim's review does a great job pointing out where the film stumbles.  The opening with Mark Strong and Dominic West is just visual exposition that doesn't engage.  Very interesting that it used to be later in the film.  The movie really doesn't get going until John Carter gets his ass to Mars.

Seeing this at a free screening, I am aware of the fact that such audiences are usually more primed to enjoy a good movie or forgive a mediocre one.  But my audience sounded like they were genuinely enjoying it.  There was a significant amount of applause when the film ended and it sounded genuine.  People LOOOOOVE Woola.  They loved the Tharks.  They loved the one moment when James Purefoy got to have fun.

Reading about how needlessly convoluted a simple story was made, I was nervous about being lost/confused during the film.  Having seen it now, I think this is really only an issue that depends on how much you choose to focus on it (which not everyone does).  The war story didn't get much of a reaction, but I think people got what was going on in broad strokes.

As for the Tharks... from the trailers, I criticized how 'cartoony' their animation was.  I'd say that quality really didn't change, but I adapted to it very easily while watching the film itself.  It perfectly suits its tone.   Now I want to see Tharks slaughtering Na'vi.  

Yeah, definitely don't mind going to see this again.  I had a really good time with it.  I hope it does well enough, because I really want Stanton to come back to this world.

Stanton's recent TED talk:

http://www.ted.com/talks/andrew_stanton_the_clues_to_a_great_story.html

I saw it last night, also, and really enjoyed it.    There are plenty of familiar elements (AVATAR, AOTC, lots of STARGATE), but it's all handled with obvious love and affection for the pulp genre.  I even liked the cutesy wraparound segment with Carter's "nephew."   Kitsch was just fine as Carter, better than I expected.

Killer supporting cast, too.  Cranston, Defoe, Samantha Morton, McNulty and seemingly half the cast of HBO's ROME.  

And, Lynn Collins?  Start mass-producing those restraining orders!

Glad it's got more to offer than PRINCE OF PERSIA (also a Disney joint).

Just got back from a preview screening of this, and I'll echo a lot of the things that have been said.

The plotting is kind of a mess. You kind of know what's going on, but it's very broad and vague. It feels like a lot was left on the cutting room floor, especially in the early going. There just isn't any reason whatsoever to care about the conflict between these two kingdoms. There's also not a great sense of timing or geography, which takes away a bit from the grand adventure of it all. Purefoy is criminally underused. In his one big scene, it took me a while to figure out who he was because we just hadn't seen him much, but he absolutely kills in that scene.

I thought Kitsch did a good job for the most part, but there are places where he falls flat. He's good at playing the quiet, intense guy. As someone else said, he does a fine job whenever he's playing "Tim Riggins of Mars". The times when he's called on to give a rousing speech (the arena scene) or really sell a big moment, he falls short. Not a bad performance, but he doesn't elevate the material. I'm not really feeling the Dominik West love that other guys are talking about, but he also doesn't have a whole lot to work with.

All that said, the film is still a winner. It's beautifully shot. It transports you to a world that really feels new and strange, but never, to me, felt artificial. The thing that really surprised me is how funny the film is. It's genuinely really funny, with great bits of humor scattered throughout. The dog creature (forget the name) is perfectly used, too much more of him would have been annoying, but he's in it just the right amount. The movie doesn't take itself too seriously, and that's what makes it so much fun. I'd watch this 100 times before I watch Avatar again, because it never gets caught up in being "serious sci-fi", it's just pure entertainment. A lot of the emotional beats fall flat, but the big battle scene intercut with Carter burying his family really worked for me. I thought that was the best scene in the movie. As others have said, Collins knocks it out of the park. Also, her in that wedding dress...wow.

Imperfect, but lots of fun.

I just might agree with you there.  My heart just SOARED in that sequence.  I don't know if the film had done a good job building to that moment structurally, but it was executed so well that it sold that moment 100% for me.  Giacchino's sweeping themes will do that to me...

Joshua and Tim talked about the rushed romance.  That's definitely the case (as it is with a lot of the threads in this film), but I think Kitsch and Collins had some strong chemistry that sold the rushed romance.  I bought it.

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Originally Posted by mcnooj82 

Joshua and Tim talked about the rushed romance.  That's definitely the case (as it is with a lot of the threads in this film), but I think Kitsch and Collins had some strong chemistry that sold the rushed romance.  I bought it.

I think Josh's comment about enjoying a budding romance and then suddenly it isn't budding anymore hit it right on the head. It's not that the two don't have chemistry, it's that it makes the jump to total, overwhelming love too quickly.

Also, I forgot to mention above, but the "Virginia" joke killed me every time. It should've been just a one-note gag, but the way Dafoe delivers "Virginia!" had me cracking up.

Sigh... I wanted to like this. My heart was completely open, it really was. But after the first half hour, a good third of which is empty exposition, I wanted to tear my eyes out.

The one bit where JC arrives on Mars and struggles to learn how to walk was cute and inspired, even if it was cut too frenetically. I thought the film would be loaded with inspired, imaginative moments like these. Instead, it's info-dump after info-dump, all the special effects in the world and nary a single memorable image. If the lazers aren't going pew-pew through what I grasp was a three-way war (I stopped caring after a point), then the movie screeches to a HALT. Characters say either fantasy film cliches ("We have a saying in Barsoom..."), share crucial information ("This doohickey does this to that doohickey and look, more doohickeys. But I can't figure out how to get the EXACT amount of doohickeys") or, criminally, flirt - Kitsch and Lynn Collins spend the entire movie making fuck-me eyes at each other since the first moment, which got repetitive quickly.

There's so much that happens in this movie, and it feels like there's heavy breathing trying to get it to all stick together. The Tharks are cool in theory, but they keep disappearing and re-appearing in the narrative randomly - are they helping or hindering Carter? Found it weird that we were supposed to care about this young daughter Thark and her relationship with her father - how about more John Carter instead? Who is this guy? Tough guy Civil War soldier, I guess- and? I would have preferred someone with a little more character and moviestar appeal in this role - Kitsch would have been fine if they wrote a character for him. Sometimes he's alright. Sometimes it's clear he's in front of a green screen, morphing into Paul Walker. Stilted.

Dull cast, too - Mark Strong does his well-spoken stoic dude thing. James Purefoy is still Smarm Central. I don't understand how Dominic West can be so GREAT on The Wire and just about terrible in everything else. They're all outshined by that mothafuckin' Woola. Mommy, get me one.

There's one point where Carter's after what's essentially a flux capacitor, and he finds out it serves multiple purposes, finding a cave with Deja Thoris where it's used to create some sort of map of the galaxies and the various doorways. Of course, this is represented by some laser blue lightshow drawing planets and arrows on the ground, pretty much the dullest visual representation of that idea they could use. I think the takeaway was that this is where Deja finds that Carter really IS from Earth, even though it's a good hour into the movie, and it takes this seven minute lightshow to get there. I'm not sure if I'm explaining it right, but I pretty much felt like a whole day had passed at that point.

As I mentioned earlier, it really sucks that Collins is non-present for so much of the 2nd half of the film out of plot-necessity. 

I bought the unconditional love in the:

As I said... the way the story is played out structurally, it doesn't seem like this stuff should work.  But Stanton's execution of those moments really made it feel like they did.  For me, anyway.

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Originally Posted by mcnooj82 
I just might agree with you there.  My heart just SOARED in that sequence.  I don't know if the film had done a good job building to that moment structurally, but it was executed so well that it sold that moment 100% for me.  Giacchino's sweeping themes will do that to me...

Also, this is the scene that made me realize a balls-out adaptation of this material would be far more awesome than the sanitized family film version. I think the way this scene was shot and scored was lovely, but it intercuts with images of Carter's family from back home, and I couldn't help but think, why are we seeing this? Carter is DESTROYING AN ENTIRE ARMY. SHOW ME MORE OF THAT. This version wants you to feel the sadness and drama of that, but a PG-13 or R, hardcore version of this would just be Carter finding a catharsis sans cutaways, just destroying these beasts one by one. As is, the flickers of family give me a sour taste, since it's an attempt to find even more sympathy for a guy who's been our hero for the entire movie during a scene where he's MURDERING HUNDREDS.

Also, the ending of this movie felt like afterthought reshoot hell. Huge laughter at random points during my screening.

From what a friend tells me, the reported budget on this is waaaaaaay too kind and that Stanton went 'reshoot-mad.' 

I joked that he was trying to use his actors like CG characters he could render again and again and again and again.

What random points were met with laughter?  My audience wasn't like that at all.

I like Mark Strong a lot, but I feel that he excels more in roles like TINKER TAILOR.  Seeing him portray the exact same kind of villain in different costumes grows tiresome, and his character here never makes much in the way of any sense.  It all gets quite muddled whenever he's on the screen.

The interesting thing about John Carter is that it's the grandfather of these the big sci-fi properties like Star Wars and could rightly claim that certain sci-fi conventions were novel to the source material.  But now that those films have become such juggernauts, Carter as a film feels ironically old and un-iconic.  No imagery here is as striking as the properties that it inspired in the first place, and if you didn't know its history, you wouldn't guess.  Nothing here feels even remotely special or inspiring.

As much as I enjoyed the film, I'd agree that there's nothing in it that feels particularly iconic, maybe aside from Dejah Thoris (though that's probably more my hormones talking).

Deja is probably one of the best things about the film, and the one performance aside from Dafoe's that I completely bought.  Which is funny, given how she was the one thing I found myself most worried about going on - I was having flashbacks to Gemma Arterton in Prince of Persia, right down to the markings and slightly haughty accent.

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Originally Posted by Draco Senior 

Deja is probably one of the best things about the film, and the one performance aside from Dafoe's that I completely bought. 

Sadly, those are the very characters that disappear for a long stretch of the film.  You really miss their presence.

Saw the film a second time last night and enjoyed it all over again -- though I wish 2D had been an option. SO muted, and kills some of the spectacle of the locations. As often happens on a second viewing, a lot of the plot shittiness that bugged me the first time around didn't seem so egregious now that I already had everything figured out. Even Mark Strong's character came off better. Taylor Kitsch, oddly, came off a little worse. He has some really clunky delivery in certain dramatic scenes; he's best with the comedy. Collins burnt up the frame just as hot though.

Collins for Wonder Woman?

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Originally Posted by Joshua Miller 

Collins burnt up the frame just as hot though.

 

Collins for Wonder Woman?

As long as Stanton is brought on to direct her performance, yeah!

Last I heard was around $25. It'd take a lot for it to get a huge bump.

Few things drive me crazier than a story that doesn't know how to start. This film has three prologues and change before it gets to the meat of the narrative. Which also means that the movie can't end when it's "over." Then you've got a ton of characters with undefined powers that are all powerful one minute, and then useless the next. The love story is non-existent, though it's obviously meant to be there. At the end I whispered to my girlfriend "man, I hope she has a vagina." If they had cast someone Charlton Heston-esque this might have worked. But I don't think there's a modern actor who could be that big.

Oh dear, I think Gabe and Damon's opinions of this are going to line up with mine, the things you guys are mentioning are exactly what I'd feared and exactly the kind of things that sink a film for me. I'll be seeing it this friday, but...

Bollocks.

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Originally Posted by Damon Houx 

 Then you've got a ton of characters with undefined powers that are all powerful one minute, and then useless the next.

This is definitely true.  There is never a sense of how strong anyone is.  You'd think John Carter would be able to defeat Dominic West pretty easily when they first meet considering how easily he plows through tons of Tharks later on.  

It's got a RT score of 58%.Not good.

It looks from the low tracking that this is going to be a major box office misfire for Disney. CHances for a franchise do not look very good,since it has to do 500 Million just to break even.

Some people in the Disney marketing department need to be fed to the Banths for the way they fucked up the marketing for this film.

And to make matters worse,it seems not to be tracking very well in overseas markets either.

The more I watch the trailer for this, the more I get a bit of an '80 Flash Gordon vibe off this - is that misplaced?