or Connect
CHUD.com Community › Forums › CREATURE CORNER › Creature Corner Main › Question about Samara's origin in The Ring US (maybe SPOILER)
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Question about Samara's origin in The Ring US (maybe SPOILER)

post #1 of 39
Thread Starter 
So did her mother fuck a horse or what?

If not, what's the story about Samara's origin?
post #2 of 39
Her mother fucked a horse, of course, of course.

Actually, I have no idea, but I'm giddy with non-sleep.
post #3 of 39
I think it was more like atrifical "put horse baby inside her"
post #4 of 39
It was explained when Naomi and her boytoy went to the island that Samara was adopted. Her mother went away for a while and came back with the child. No horse fucking needed.

I'm sure she did anyway (who wouldn't? Such majecstic beasts...), she just didn't get pregnant from it.
post #5 of 39
Yes, they say she was adopted.

When Rachel is talking to the island doctor, we learn that the Morgans went away for some time, after countless miscarriages, and returned hope with the baby Samara. And as we learn in the deleted scene featuring the fishermen...

SPOILER
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
...the Morgans went away on a trip to the main land and when they returned, Samara never returned. They didn't ask why, they never cared, it was best for the people of the island that Samara was gone.
post #6 of 39
but why??? What did she cause that the town wanted her away?? Very King-esq
post #7 of 39
Yeah. Maybe I'm stupid, but even though I enjoyed the movie I thought the whole origin of Samara, or lack thereof, was total cop out.

Take a look at the responses above. We have no fucking clue what happened. A fisherman? A horse? Vague conversations?

Argento is clearer most of the time with his plot points.

I don't really need to know, but I think the details are in the movie to figure it out. I only saw it once in the theater, and I obviously need to see it again.

Anyone else think they have it nailed?
post #8 of 39
Maybe I'm clueless, but I thought this was kind of the point...we don't know WHY Samara was evil. She just was.

In my opinion, any sort of justification (Samara was evil because she was abused, because her mother was a witch, because her mother threw leg for a pony, etc.) would have cheapened the evil. I hate hackneyed explainations that try to rationlize evil, because they always boil down to lazy mysticism or cheap Psychology 101 psychobabble.

Sometimes little kids are just evil. That's all.
post #9 of 39
Thread Starter 
Hideo Nakada's Ring did a way better job of not telling you the full facts about Sadako's origin. It only hinted at stuff. Nakada was playing with his audience, deliberately skirting around the issue so that you were never quite sure WHERE she came from. The fear of the unknown. I think it's futile asking someone to nail down Sadako's origins, because it was never concrete in the first place. It's all speculation.

On the other hand, I think Verbinski's Ring did try to let the audience in on Samara's origins. That old wheeze about having to explain every last thing to Western audiences. Only with Verbinski, the backstory came out all muddled because he just isn't an adept storyteller. Hence my asking what Samara's origins were. I'm sure someone out there has figured it out.
post #10 of 39
I disagree that the US Ring intended to specifically state Samara's origins. And I think the general approach of hinting at but never coming out and saying that they actually found her baked inside a pie... genius.
post #11 of 39
Again, the website shows Samaras birth certificate, and she IS her mothers daughter. I don't believe the father is listed. Seems very Rosemarys baby, Lovecraft cult inspired to me.

Seems they allude to her being a child of satan, or soem other demon or devil.
post #12 of 39
oh jes....why didn't I think of this...

Ring 3 was the movie where they give a lot more background of her origins......so I predict that is what Ring 2 will be about over here
post #13 of 39
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Johnny Butane:
Her mother went away for a while and came back with the child.
That's it, that's the explanation?

Did anyone ever bother to explain the "facts of life" to Verbinski, Kruger et al? I'm surprised they didn't show a fucking stork deliver the baby...
post #14 of 39
You know, that's the reason I really didn't like the movie (while I must agree it is quite effective).
You kinda get the idea that you're gonna understand everything by the end of the movie, and in fact you don't get anything at all:
for instance:
why is the girl evil? why did the mother end up crazy? what's the whole thing with horses? where does the video come from? who filmed it and how? how does it kill people?
and more than anything else, who gives the damn phonecall (the idea that it might be Samara is just too ridiculous...)??
post #15 of 39
I would MUCH rather have a vauge, somewhat unexplained origin than to have to hear "Her mom fucked a horse". Fucking ridiculous.
post #16 of 39
Dear God don't let anyone from Hollywood see this thread.

"See, See? THIS is why we make sure every movie we pinch off wraps everything up nice and neat."

One of the great things about this movie is that it prompts discussion, and (for me at least) a lot can be revealed through the insights of fellow movielovers. There have been some good threads that explain a lot, for anyone that has questions like the above. Make sure to check out <a href="http://chud.com/board/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=008339&p=" target="_blank">this</a> and <a href="http://chud.com/board/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=3&t=002493&p=" target="_blank">this</a>.

edited for helpfulness
post #17 of 39
Quote:
Yeah. Maybe I'm stupid, but even though I enjoyed the movie I thought the whole origin of Samara, or lack thereof, was total cop out.
Quote:
You know, that's the reason I really didn't like the movie (while I must agree it is quite effective).
You kinda get the idea that you're gonna understand everything by the end of the movie, and in fact you don't get anything at all:
for instance:
why is the girl evil? why did the mother end up crazy? what's the whole thing with horses? where does the video come from? who filmed it and how? how does it kill people?
and more than anything else, who gives the damn phonecall (the idea that it might be Samara is just too ridiculous...)??
Quote:
Dear God don't let anyone from Hollywood see this thread.

"See, See? THIS is why we make sure every movie we pinch off wraps everything up nice and neat."

One of the great things about this movie is that it prompts discussion, and (for me at least) a lot can be revealed through the insights of fellow movielovers. There have been some good threads that explain a lot, for anyone that has questions like the above. Make sure to check out this and this.
Ambiguity is fun. The best part about The Ring and Ringu is that you can discuss them and come up with your own theories. One of my biggest problems with american movies(and many americans) is that everything has to be wrapped up in a nice neat little package. Can you not think for yourself? When something is ambiguous it allows your imagination to run wild.

Now as for my theory about Samara's origins, I think its safe to say that Anna is definately the mother. Not only was there the birth certificate, but Richard says, "My wife was not suposed to have a child." I do however believe that Richard was not the father, and the birth or maybe the conception was unnatural, why else would the Morgen's say Samara was adopted? The Rosemary's Baby(infact would it be really off to imagine that she's the daughter of Satan) like conception is a good one, but I think maybe one day Anna was just pregnant, conceived by pure evil.
post #18 of 39
One other thing I forgot to say, I think ambiguity is expecially good for horror movies because so much of what happens in them is really unexplainable, and whenever a movie does try to give an explanation for the unexplainable it usually comes off sounding too far fetched or just plain stupid.
post #19 of 39
Thread Starter 
wha?
post #20 of 39
Quote:
chucky's girl:
You know, that's the reason I really didn't like the movie (while I must agree it is quite effective).
You kinda get the idea that you're gonna understand everything by the end of the movie, and in fact you don't get anything at all:
for instance:
why is the girl evil? why did the mother end up crazy? what's the whole thing with horses? where does the video come from? who filmed it and how? how does it kill people?
and more than anything else, who gives the damn phonecall (the idea that it might be Samara is just too ridiculous...)??
While you have the right to like or dislike this movie as you wish, I don't think it's fair to assume that everything in the end should be tied up in a neat little bow. Sure there are some questions, but that's what makes the movie interesting. It's better than walking out of the theater with the usual, "Hmm. That was good." or "Hmm that was crap." attitude.

The answers to your questions are simple, and contained within the movie.

Why is Samara evil? We will never know. That's more exciting than saying it's Satan or Ozzy Osbourne's music or a weak religious explanation. She's a twisted little girl, despite her origins, and her powers isolate her from the rest of the world. The mystery of why she is evil adds to the creepiness.

Why did the mother end up crazy? Well, her daughter was evil. See above.

What's the whole thing with horses? The horses pissed Samara off because they kept her awake and she's evil, and the horses can sense that she is evil.

Where does the video come from? Who filmed it and how? Well, first you have to accept that Samara is evil. Then you have to accept that she creates this evil curse that is the video tape. The tape wasn't filmed so much as it was projected from Samara's warped mind. It's her revenge concept, and that's why she kills people who watch it, because they have witnessed her pain. Also, she's evil, so she doesn't get along with people much.

How does the video kill people, and who makes the phone call? Did you watch the movie? Samara pretty much does the killing, and the phone call, again, is part of the curse and the supernatural nature of the curse. I get the feeling that the phone would have been ringing even if it had not been connected to the outlet. That's creepy, isn't it?

Overall, you should just go watch the movie again. Most of the answers to your questions are just assumptions you have to make to suspend your disbelief. It sounds like you weren't willing to do that. It's called horror movie logic, and in this movie it works much better than in the other dreck we've been subjected to lately, like Scream or Urban Legends. The guy in Scream was evil because Neve Campell's mom screwed his dad and made him get a divorce.
post #21 of 39
I always got a distinct Cthulhu vibe from Sadako's origin in the original flick...
post #22 of 39
I dug this bit of possible answers.

The girl has powers...like ESP and whatever....and she would cause things to happen around town. The mother went nuts cause of her not being able to have a child and when she DOES get a hold of a child, it possesses these powers. This pushes the mother over the edge and they put her up in the sky box in the barn....causing the horses to flip out and go swimming when they in fact know that they are horrible swimmers.

So after the "Horses can't swim but they sure can die" episode, the father makes the batty mum whack the kid and dump her in a well. But, being all super human and stuff the girl wishes not to be ignored....thus the Naomi living thing....she did not ignore the tape...or the girl.....so, if you watch the tape and NOT make a copy to pass along, you got a make over from hell

....or something like that
post #23 of 39
Quote:
why is the girl evil? why did the mother end up crazy? what's the whole thing with horses? where does the video come from? who filmed it and how? how does it kill people?and more than anything else, who gives the damn phonecall
I'm fairly certain that just about all of these questions are answered in the film itself. As inexplicable as it all is (and should be) I'm sure if you were to watch the film and pay attention, a lot of what you're asking is right there in the movie.

"Why is the girl evil?" The signs point to the mysterious 'deal with the devil' type conception the Morgans left the country to have done. (We see a form filled with Japanese script and Anna's name at one point in her medical records as well as records indicating a long series of natural conceptions and miscarriages.) All Anna Morgan ever wanted, aside from her horses, was a daughter. She left the country with her husband, went somewhere where some sort of unnamed, unnatural procedure was done to make her pregnant, and in typical "be careful what you wish for" karmic riffback, Samara was evil to the core, capable of projecting images and sounds (voices) into peoples and animals minds. She spooked the horses, which she hated, causing them to kill themselves, scared off the fish (the islands lifeblood) and began causing hallucinations in those around her, driving her mother mad.

They were both locked up for observation where it was discovered that Samara had the ability to burn images into just about anything: x-rays, tv signals, walls, human flesh. And that, once again, SHE WAS JUST PLAIN EVIL. Nature had been tampered with and the price was paid.

Upon their mutual release from the nut house, Anna took Samara to a horse breeding camp on the mainland, the false pretense being to "chill out" and recouperate. The real reason was to do away with Samara in a place away from suspicion and they returned without her, claiming she had died in a fire. Things went back to normal in the town and no one thought to look much deeper because they all feared, hated and wished her dead to begin with.

The cabins were built on the land where the horse ranch used to be. One particular cabin was built over the well containing her remains. Her "spirit" (whatever) began projecting images onto tv's and eventually video tapes. Her m.o. was to allow folks to know that they were doomed for seven days, as she was.

I've taken that from the movie, and a little little bit from the script. The rest is all subjective, taking whatever you want from the main plot, as opposed to the backstory. I have to agree with the folks who found it's mysterious, unexplained qualities to be stronger than if we were told everything. I think, though that more of it is explained than most seem to think.
post #24 of 39
Once again, in the time it took for me to write up one of my traditional, long-winded replies, others covered the territory I was rather well. I'm glad I'm not the only one who saw that these items are spelled-out pretty clearly in the finished film.
post #25 of 39
Thread Starter 
I think you explained it a little better than most, Inspector... That clears up many of the issues I had.
post #26 of 39
Quote:
The Inspector:
&lt;...snip...&gt; Samara was evil to the core, capable of projecting images and sounds (voices) into peoples and animals minds. She spooked the horses, which she hated, causing them to kill themselves, scared off the fish (the islands lifeblood) and began causing hallucinations in those around her, driving her mother mad.
I'm currently working on a visual analysis of this film (one of my favorite horror movies today) and I have one serious nagging question:

How was Samara able to move the nails, screws, wood in the cabin when they finally uncovered the well? I thought the film did a great job subtly setting up Samara's powers. But this "telekinetic" powers is a bit "different" from her "projective" powers. Is it because her remains are nearby which was why she can do this additional powers? Could this be the reason why Aidan freaks out when he learns about Samara's "freedom"? Would being free gives her "further" powers, such as telekinesis?

That is where I'm going with that and I'm just curious about what other people think about it.

Furthermore, Samara's not adopted (as I once thought). I don't think she had intercourse with a horse as well. I have a feeling that some unproven scientific test that causes conception was performed on Anna Morgan in Japan (based on the Japanese writings, Noah uncovers). There are no concrete evidence about this, but based on the clues, it seems to make sense.
post #27 of 39
Quote:
I have a feeling that some unproven scientific test that causes conception was performed on Anna Morgan in Japan (based on the Japanese writings, Noah uncovers)
... can anyone read Japanese?
post #28 of 39
Thread Starter 
Steven Seagal can read Japanese. If he was here, I'm sure he would help us...
post #29 of 39
I kinda thought the Japanese writing was just thrown in as an inside joke, a tip-o-the-hat to the original movie. Interesting how some people interpret this little clue.
post #30 of 39
Some dialoge from the shooting draft of the script, from the deleted "Harbor bar" / fishermen scene:

"They tried for years to have their own child. Didn't matter what they did -- her whole life nothing. Till the year they went away. They came back with a little bundle, said a doctor helped 'em overseas. I suppose you mess with the natural way, you get what's coming to you."

Aside from that, I don't think the sheet of Japanese script was some sort of cutesy "wink-wink" in-joke. Especially in a story meant to be deciphered and pieced together like this one.
post #31 of 39
Man Adam, I love that you can always get that Steven Seagal plug into every thread. That is pretty damn sweet. I had to give you 5 stars for that one, I love it.

In the case of The Ring , I liked it, and the fact that they were somewhat ambiguos (sp?) about what the whole crap was about was something I liked. I don't always like to be "spoon fed" the whole, "This is why they did it" or "This is why it everything happened". I like the Japanese Ringu because they just played the little girl to be some kind evil incarnate that could kill you with just a stare or a look. That's freaky shit, and the final scene in Ringu was a much stronger kick in the nuts to me than the US version was. I just didn't like that cut to Watts in the car, trying to save her beau, brought me out of "pants shitting" mode.
post #32 of 39
Quote:
... can anyone read Japanese?
Ringworld has a translation. Turns out the characters are actually chinese! I forget exactly it says, something to do with Anna's treatment to help her get pregnant.
post #33 of 39
Quote:
Movie Geek:
Quote:
... can anyone read Japanese?
Ringworld has a translation. Turns out the characters are actually chinese! I forget exactly it says, something to do with Anna's treatment to help her get pregnant.
Wow. Really? Chinese? I assumed that it's Japanese because it's written vertically (plus the fact that Japanese also uses Chinese characters). Do you happen to know the direct link? Actually I'll check it now.....

[edited to include link]:

<a href="http://ringworld.somrux.com/faq2.htm" target="_blank">http://ringworld.somrux.com/faq2.htm</a>
(it's halfway further down)

That's pretty interesting.
post #34 of 39
It's in Japanese, with Chinese characters (Kanji) heavily mixed in (as commonly used for periodicals, newspapers, etc.)

If you post a pic, voltes, I'll give it a shot.
post #35 of 39
khitch, that link I just edited in has translated it. It's about medicinal herbs.
post #36 of 39
Shit, it looks like it IS Chinese, and not Japanese. I would've been totally lost. My apologies for my earlier post, and thanks to voltes.
post #37 of 39
Quote:
voltes5

Furthermore, Samara's not adopted (as I once thought). I don't think she had intercourse with a horse as well. I have a feeling that some unproven scientific test that causes conception was performed on Anna Morgan in Japan (based on the Japanese writings, Noah uncovers). There are no concrete evidence about this, but based on the clues, it seems to make sense.[/QB]
For some reason, when I saw the Japanese writings, I was thinking something more mystical. They went to Japan and had some sort of whammy done, which of course always brings bad mojo down.

One thing I really liked about the movie is they didn't spell everything out in big bold letters. It makes things creepier that way to me. Like Signs...frankly, I didn't want to know more about the aliens, but for some people, not having everything spelled out bothers them.
post #38 of 39
Alright, I'm here to shill my

<a href="http://innergrail.com/thering/index.htm" target="_blank">The Ring - a visual investigation</a>

I haven't edited the "Chinese" writing part yet though. Anyway, I was hoping to get some feedback and criticism. I'd like to see more readings/interpretations of this film.
post #39 of 39
Great laser sharp analysis as always, voltes.

But I think the writings in question in her medical file is most definitely in Chinese, not Japanese. The tipoff is Anna Morgan's name as written. In Japan, they use <a href="http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Shrine/7047/kwritutor.htm" target="_blank">katakana</a> for foreign names, and not Chinese characters.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Creature Corner Main
CHUD.com Community › Forums › CREATURE CORNER › Creature Corner Main › Question about Samara's origin in The Ring US (maybe SPOILER)