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The cat's out of the bag with the ending. It's impossible to spackle over what an amateurish mess it was. It'd be like the Wachowskis trying to go back on DVD and fix the Matrix 3.
It sounds like Bioware intends to have story DLC that gives closure to some/all of the characters that they just left hanging (literally, like up in space in a life-or-death fight) at the end, which is one area they can 'fix'.
Instead of more little DLC chunks, I'd suggest they're better off just rolling everything (Aria & Omega, multiplayer maps, revised/expanded ending sequence) into an expansion pack.
Given I always expected the mass relays to be destroyed anyway, I'm not even too bothered about the existing ending anymore, the disappointment's largely worn off. Well, the Destroy one at least. Seeing how one of the main themes of the series developed over the previous games was advising self-reliance and cultures forging their own path instead clinging to the legacy of others, it makes both thematic sense and sets things up for games in the far future where they don't have to worry too much about having to account for whatever choices regarding the fate of various races players made X thousand years earlier. My gripes remain the bad handling of the Catalyst reveal/conversation, the insulting and incredibly cheap way they went about colouring the same damn footage (well, 95% the same anyway) three different ways, and the nonsensical Normandy scene tacked on there.
Quite honestly, the main cause of annoyance for me now is basically the part in the game where it's stated Kaiden/Ash becomes only the second human Spectre. It would have been easy to just have them become another one and allow for a Spectre-based game based around a new character set during the two years Shep's out of action in the ME playground everyone knows and loves. No Reapers, no apocalyptic shit, just a new ST&R guy/girl doing Space James Bond stuff and playing that glorious "I'm a goddamn Spectre" card whenever some schmuck tries to pull them up over something. Ah well.
Bioware is not defending their shitty choices very well. "Critics universally adore our game." "We think this is the best one yet."
Given I always expected the mass relays to be destroyed anyway, I'm not even too bothered about the existing ending anymore, the disappointment's largely worn off. Well, the Destroy one at least. Seeing how one of the main themes of the series developed over the previous games was advising self-reliance and cultures forging their own path instead clinging to the legacy of others, it makes both thematic sense and sets things up for games in the far future where they don't have to worry too much about having to account for whatever choices regarding the fate of various races players made X thousand years earlier. My gripes remain the bad handling of the Catalyst reveal/conversation, the insulting and incredibly cheap way they went about colouring the same damn footage (well, 95% the same anyway) three different ways, and the nonsensical Normandy scene tacked on there.
If it wasnt for the dumbass choice of having to kill the Geth/EDI among with the Reapers, i wouldnt have any problem with the destroy ending whatsover; I can accept the whole catalyst stuff being a deus ex machina, but the whole control/destroy/fuse options and the endgame shoving the biological vs synthetic life down your throat as if it had been the core theme of the series ruins the endgame.
Also, if they continue with the Mass Effect universe, a new series should be based on exploring new relays; hell, a expedition crew of various races going through inactive relays and meeting new species and societies would be fantastic.
Just finished the game last night, and... Hrm.
To start off, I thought i'd post this, which is the most legible version of the 'Shep was Really Indoctrinated' theory I've heard thus far:
Interesting stuff, especially the observation that not only is the the Control option the same as the Illusive Man's goal, but that Synthesis is what Saren was trying to achieve as well. Mind you, it also gives Crucible/the Reapers' predictive powers a bit too much credit. A Paragon Shepard will steer away from Destroy because it kills all synthetics, including the Geth and EDI. Now I can see Crucible predicting that Shep would probably rehabilitate the geth, thus having a personal interest in their safety, but prophesying Joker's fembot girlfriend? Not so much.
Of course, this interpretation doesn't explain the one thing that's bugged me all along: why the Crucible didn't just build itself right from the beginning if it knew that organic/synthetic war would only ever be inevitable. It knows what needs to be done, has done from the start, yet has been perfectly content sitting around with its thumb up its arse for 50,000 years at a time allowing the galaxy to make the exact same mistakes over and over, occasionally calling down Cuttlefish Genocide to quieten down the herd but never actually attacking the problem at its root cause; instead, it just seeds out the blueprints to see if everyone gets the point, with the eventual Shep-led success not actually mattering a crap to the long-term result.
Sure, Shepard still technically saves the galaxy by triggering the Synthesis, but he's only doing a job that Crucible should've done itself millennia ago. It can't have been that hard to find an organic/synthetic to toss itself into the beam; hell, they had a perfect candidate in Saren two games ago! What makes Shepard so special that he was worth waiting for all this time? What is finding and constructing the Crucible's machine supposed to actually prove if its prognosis of the situation doesn't fundamentally change when it is finally finished? What do all Shep's achievements actually matter in that case, adn wouldn't it have been a lot more humane and efficient to just fucking build itself and synthesise the galaxy from the start? Whether you consider Shepard indoctrinated or not, either way he kind of comes across as kind of a stooge, whether it be for the Evil Reapers or crucible's little social experiment.
Having said that, the last two hours of the game apart from the Crucible/kid stuff is marvellous. Shepard's long walk when Harbinger shows up is one of the most nerve-wracking gaming experiences I've had in years, and the game succeeded in pulling my heartstrings a few times, even if some of the tugs were particularly tough. Poor Kelly... My heart fucking sunk when I overheard THAT conversation (And why the fuck doesn't her name ever show up on the Normandy's memorial wall?).
I think these indoctrination theories are "after the fact" mental gymnastics.
It's weird though. I do not think I have ever seen such incongruity between the opinions online and the ones coming from almost every official or semi-official outlet. Since I listen to a lot of podcasts anyway on my commute, I made it a point to find gaming podcasts with Mass Effect 3 discussion. Everything is basically a repeat of either:
a) How entitled gamers are ruining gaming as an artform.
b) The new en vogue argument of "The whole game is an ending! What do the last fifteen minutes matter?"
c) The usual "Nerds just want a happy ending" strawman.
A lot of those sites had already given ME3 a 10/10 before the furor started. Not to accuse them all of being disingenuous, but I can't help but think a little bias enters in when people are indirectly criticizing you as well. DId -any- review anywhere take issue with the ending?
A quick perusal of Metacritic shows at least 1 (PC Gamer) pre-controversy review did fault the ending.
This also calls into question whether many game reviewers are really examining the game they review in any depth, or if game reviews are largely produced by apologetic fanboy Harry Knowles types.
Giant Bomb gave it a 4/5, whichwas a shock considering they made ME2 their GOTY for 2010. But even then the ending isn't mentioned, instead showcasing Jeff Gerstmann's habit of not noticing real issues in a game and instead picking away at niggly things that are of no consequence to anyone but him.
Don't get me wrong, I think the fan campaigns/lawsuits are fucking ridiculous but the ending does have serious problems. While it's not true to say that your decisions throughout the series don't matter, the game does dump a bunch of miscellaneous shit on you at the very last second, and reduces one of the series' primary themes into a trio of choices that are not only a reflection of a character you've never met until five minutes ago, but are also all in their own way contradictory to the attitudes the game tells us Shepard espouses. Maybe critics, because they play so many games and have to play them quickly, just aren't as attached to Shep and the lore as the rest of us so the jarring parts don't jar as much.
Or... Maybe they're just being fucking videogame critics.
Leigh Alexander, no stranger at internet dogpiles herself, had a nice piece over at Gamasutra. Basically, among other things, she said what I've said a lot here. If Bioware is upset at fans wanting control over the ending they shouldn't have promised them one.
The entitlement thing irks slightly, because you don't need to demand a new ending to think the one they came up with sucked on balls.
I'm surprised how hard it slapped my enthusiasm for a second playthrough. At least multi is still a blast.
The entitlement thing irks slightly, because you don't need to demand a new ending to think the one they came up with sucked on balls.
Exactly. This game is the climax of a five-year long story that has seen us follow Shepard through many hours of gameplay, and it's about the experience of seeing the climax unfold.You only get that once, and no amount of retcon DLC is going to change that feeling we got the first time, especially when so much of the game plays upon that 'Last hurrah' feeling to great effect. The London sequence is one of the few times a game has truly nailed the cinematic feel that has been the holy grail for devs the last few years. It's tense, emotional and absolutely thrilling, and while I don't exactly hate the ending it feels like it shifts the goalposts just enough to make you feel like you've been playing by the wrong rules all along, and you don't have time to adjust or give the response you've grown to believe Shepard would give in that situation, i.e. "GETH. QUARIANS. GET FUCKED."
Fuck it, I'm gonna go all in and play the 'fanfic ending' card as well: To me, we should've had the option of the 'Day the Earth Stood Still' ending. Shep can choose to reject all three options, and uses the example of the geth/Quarian situation to persuade Crucible that we are learning to co-exist with synthetics. "Hell", says Shepard, "My pilot is dating the ship's AI. He's got brittle bone syndrome and he's humping a hunk of metal. Now you tell me that doesn't take some serious love!" Crucible is unconvinced at first, but he realizes that the entire point of sneaking out the device blueprints before each Reaper cull is to test just how advanced the galaxy has become, a way of giving them the chance to send a representative to prove whether civilization is truly deserving of being wiped out. He scans the battle, sees all these formerly hostile races working together, geth and Quarian in symbiosis, and realizes that finally the galaxy is at least trying to step up to the plate. Eventually, Crucible concedes the point and agrees to call off the Reapers (Which can still involve some cobbled-together apparatus for Shepard to throw himself into if Bioware really insist). However, this is done with a warning that, if synthetics and organics revert to their warring ways, the Reapers will be back to crush them all before we can say 'Gort'.
Yes, it's cliched as fuck. But it gives a Paragon ending that at least feels in line with the work Shepard's been doing throughout the game. Then, the peace between geth and Quarian, all the material in the saga to do with machine vs. biological life, leads to a clear but plausible end (well, actually makes a difference to how things pan out, which isn't the case with the ending we got). It's not a clever ending - well, it's actually a bit of a rip-off - but it ends the saga on a note that's both philosophical and feels like Shepard signing off as himself, and not as guinea pig for a creepy, child-inhabiting glowy thing. If I have a choice between an unoriginal ending that allows the lead character to act with the qualities he's shown in the rest of the story, and a 'daring' ending that turns them into a dope getting pushed around by faceless entities for the sake of being clever, well... I'll take the unoriginal ending. Cheese may taste like cheese, but caviar that tastes like dogshit, tastes like dogshit.
I think critics are defending the ending as a piece of agit-prop plotting that they're holding up as arty for the sake of banging the 'Art' drum, because they want to get mileage out of Mass Effect as a cultural phenomenon. What they're missing, however, is the fact that the ending we have is just as shallow as any 'happy' ending Bioware could've fed the great unwashed; only here, it's a false sense of complexity and deepness that is determining the way things pan out, resulting in a bunch of trickery that doesn't actually signify anything more than the desire to make things as tricky as possible.
I always figured the main thrust of the series was ultimately a fairly positive message about 'Hey ya'll we're all in this shit together! Let's stop the fussin' and a feudin' and have ourselves a hoedown!" instead of going all fucking Xenogears there at the end.
I mean for three games now I've been running around trying to fix the genophage, get the Quarians and Geth to share the most awkward hugs imaginable, and get the humans to actually INTERGRATE with the galaxy instead of trouncing around like rejected Robert Heinlein characters. I thought I was working for a stronger united galaxy, and major enemies like Cerberus symbolized all the odious shit(*cough* racism *cough*) that we wanted to move away from.
And I'm willing to admit that this is ultimately some really hippy-dippy love-fest of an ending here, but I just don't really have a problem with that. Mass Effect always felt good-natured, and the ending feels like a bunch of writers who never realized that.
And I'm willing to admit that this is ultimately some really hippy-dippy love-fest of an ending here, but I just don't really have a problem with that. Mass Effect always felt good-natured, and the ending feels like a bunch of writers who never realized that.
That's because True Art Is Angsty.
Sat in on a friend's playthrough over the weekend.
What I don't get is how the game doesn't address the moral question of the Reapers' own agency. Sure, the Catalyst made them, but they seem to enjoy their fucking jobs. Unless those pleasant conversations you had with Sovereign and Harbinger were overseen by the Catalyst, which means he's a sicko.
So if you try to control or synthesize with them, that means you have to hang out with genocidal space tyrants, or let them float off scot-free. What do machines desinged for planetary destruction do when they're handed pink slips?
Alternatively, you could commit genocide of your own, on the people you were just helping.
I was ready to make some hard choices to save the galaxy but this is next-level sadism.
I always figured the main thrust of the series was ultimately a fairly positive message about 'Hey ya'll we're all in this shit together! Let's stop the fussin' and a feudin' and have ourselves a hoedown!" instead of going all fucking Xenogears there at the end.
I mean for three games now I've been running around trying to fix the genophage, get the Quarians and Geth to share the most awkward hugs imaginable, and get the humans to actually INTERGRATE with the galaxy instead of trouncing around like rejected Robert Heinlein characters. I thought I was working for a stronger united galaxy, and major enemies like Cerberus symbolized all the odious shit(*cough* racism *cough*) that we wanted to move away from.
And I'm willing to admit that this is ultimately some really hippy-dippy love-fest of an ending here, but I just don't really have a problem with that. Mass Effect always felt good-natured, and the ending feels like a bunch of writers who never realized that.
Kinda depends on how you play, though. It may be telling in this instance that when it's up to Bioware, most of the "defaults" veer towards a heavily renegade Shepard (in other words, if you don't import a save from an older game, most of the defaults in Mass Effect 2 and 3 are the renegade path. Not all, but most. Makes the galaxy a much less good-natured seeming place.
Has anyone tried cobbling together (or already seen) a "perfect walkthrough" scenario from ME1 to ME3 ("perfect" in terms of War Assets gained, that is). I'm curious if you technically -can- reach 8000 (4000) without doing any multiplayer at all.
I'm completely willing to believe that Bioware's prefered canon is vastly different from me.
And also kind of boring.
Default Shep just seems to rack up body counts and makes bad decisions like they're all going out of fashion. Incentive for people to play the other games and import I suppose.
Re. EMS - the most anyone seems to have managed is about 7500. Presumably the Omega DLC (ahahahahaha, no thanks) would throw in a few more assets to maybe help an MP-reluctant min-maxer hit the magical crispy fried Shep survives explosions and orbital re-entry mark.
Anyone catch this exchange with Javik regarding the Reapers' tactics?
Default Shep just seems to rack up body counts and makes bad decisions like they're all going out of fashion. Incentive for people to play the other games and import I suppose.
Yeah, default Shep is...kinda nuts, it seems.
This is genius, and prove that you can find some humour in the chaos that is the Bioware forums:
I always figured the main thrust of the series was ultimately a fairly positive message about 'Hey ya'll we're all in this shit together! Let's stop the fussin' and a feudin' and have ourselves a hoedown!" instead of going all fucking Xenogears there at the end.
True. We're given no reason to trust Crucible, especially when he's casually dismissing what you've spent half the game actually making happen. The geth/Quarian peace is proof that crucible is full of shit, as is the very existence of the Crucible device itself, which could only have ever been constructed through organic/synthetic cooperation. That is where the heart of the story lies, and the fact that this minor-inhibiting twat can pop up literally in the last five minutes and dismiss the whole thing as folly - and that the game doesn't even allow Shepard/the player the chance to resist this reading - is what's at the core of people's problems.
Now I agree that the indoctrination reading is basically fan-wank, but it baffles me why some people consider this a preferable ending; to me, it does the above even more egregiously, taking an issue that has mostly been a minor plot point (The Reapers' possible interest in indoctrinating Shep) and in the last five minutes suddenly making it THE driving force behind the climax, and sneaking it by you as something else while it's at it. I never believed as a player in these three games that the Reapers had a chance of indoctrinating Shepard, and I find the prospect of being told in the last five minuites of the saga "BAM! You're indoctrinated now!" just as egregious as being told "POW! Shepard's now listening to some glowy kid's bullshit claims, even though we know damned well he wouldn't buy it!"
It's Bioware basically wresting Shepard from the player and shoehorning him/her into an ending that's all cleverness, but no soul (Maaan!).
Well, I'd note that the argument isn't so much that Shepard is indoctrinated but rather that the ending sequence is the attempt at indoctrination. The follow-up being that choosing the "destruction" ending is basically "resisting" the indoctrination (and hence, the only outcome where we're given the glimmer of hope that Shepard may have survived).
It is, of course, fan-wank at this point but fan-wank that's reached the point of garnering mainstream media attention. To the point where I half-wonder if the folks that originated it on the Bioware forums weren't planted by Bioware themselves. It certainly gives Bioware an "out" if they ran with it, because I think it's very, very difficult for a lot of people to figure how after two and 9/10s games' worth of damn good writing (for a video game...please remember that caveat before anyone starts in with the "it's really not that good") that Bioware's writers practically devolved to typewriter-banging monkeys for the last 10-15 minutes of the game.
Any theories one can have still doesn't make the ending functionally better. It's still a lot of pseudo-intellectual farting around instead of creating a strong trilogy capping finish.
And really I hate sounding like a mouthbreather over this, I really do. I don't want to sound like the sad little dipshits over at the Bioware forums who are demanding them to change the ending to some combination of giant wedding/super-happy fun party deal and will gladly distance myself from them any chance I get. However, it doesn't change in my eyes how shoddy, and badly constructed this ending Ghostrobotboyathon is.
Shit, you know what I was expecting? Something like Dragon Age Origins, where I've actually got some OPTIONS in how I handle everything.
Here's a question: I like Tali and all, but how can one justify the Quarians wiping out the Geth? Talking to people over the last week, they don't understand how siding with the Geth is Paragon at all. I don't understand how it could not be.
Here's a question: I like Tali and all, but how can one justify the Quarians wiping out the Geth? Talking to people over the last week, they don't understand how siding with the Geth is Paragon at all. I don't understand how it could not be.
I know, right?
Warning: Rannoch Spoilers (Click to show)The second Admiral Quarian Zap Brannigan started shooting at a ship with me on it, my desire to see the Quarians come away with a win dropped like a rock. I only wish I got a better Renegade-Interrupt than a punch, like cutting open that hose going into his stupid helmet and coughing into it.
Shit, you know what I was expecting? Something like Dragon Age Origins, where I've actually got some OPTIONS in how I handle everything.
Still the best ending Bioware has done.
Another RPG with a terrific dynamic ending is Alpha Protocol. It can be done.
And as much as people (like the press) love attacking the low-hanging fruit that is the most extreme reactions to the ending, it's an intellectually dishonest argument in the best case, and a laughably stupid one in the worst case. When you write a story that people give a damn about, you open yourself up to criticism.
When LOST ended, my "reservedly positive" reaction put me at odds with much of the internet reaction. While a few people ended up on my ignore list due to their inability to articulate anything worth reading in response, that never stopped me from recognizing that there were valid criticisms to be made.
Countering the least intelligent responses may be easy, but it's not all that constructive or interesting. Pretending that we're all losing our shit because we're not worshiping this objectively flawed story is as bad as the most childish reactions (some of which likely were written by actual children).
Well, I'd note that the argument isn't so much that Shepard is indoctrinated but rather that the ending sequence is the attempt at indoctrination. The follow-up being that choosing the "destruction" ending is basically "resisting" the indoctrination (and hence, the only outcome where we're given the glimmer of hope that Shepard may have survived).
Noted, but there's still the fact that Shepard struggling with indoctrination has never been an upfront crisis up to this point, and the player has too much on their mind in those closing minutes to suddenly expect it to be. Indoctrination has always been something that's happened to other people (With the possible exception of Shepard's Prothean visions), and something that feels like it's just been given a climax of sorts with the final confrontation with Illusive Man. On top of all that, you're also trying to get your head round what Crucible is saying and trying to figure out how any of what he's saying makes any sense whatsoever. If I had the choice I would've told Glowy Boy to stop talking shite, but in the absence of that option had to go with what seemed to make sense, not just in logical terms but also for the person the game has constructed Shepard to be.
I'm all for a nicely-executed twist or twisty moral choice, but this wasn't executed well. Whichever interpretation you choose, it still feels cheap.
The closest thing to a canon/good ending here is the "Destroy" ending if you pass the requirements for the best possible outcome, but that fucking stupid "geths and AIs also have to go" bit ruins it; it essentially kills a good, likable character for no reasons, and effectively wipes out much of your effort during the campaign, all for the sake of a plot device/shock value that isnt worth it in the slightest; replace the Geth/EDI thing with Earth getting destroyed/damaged or the mass relays being disabled/shortcircuiting, and itll made for a rather ok ending.
Having the mass relays explode in the control and fusion endings as well is truly a baffling and downright stupid attempt at last minute shock value.
The closest thing to a canon/good ending here is the "Destroy" ending if you pass the requirements for the best possible outcome, but that fucking stupid "geths and AIs also have to go" bit ruins it; it essentially kills a good, likable character for no reasons, and effectively wipes out much of your effort during the campaign
Exactly why I didn't pick it, and why no self-respecting Paragon Shepard would. Even from a detached player's perspective, it doesn't feel right for the moment because it makes so little story sense. It's basically Bioware being all clever-clever, and playing a trick on the player at the very last moment so they make the emotionally 'easy' ending as difficult to get as possible. They wanted players to get a bittersweet experience so devoutly, they as good as force it on you by putting the story/character logic into a blender.
I'm still thinking about the ending. I don't hate it, which is good because I really didn't want to be lumped in with the kind of cunts who'd make something like Retake Mass Effect. I think the actual choice itself is fantastic, in fact my issues with the ending are all to do with the odd 15 seconds you spend with the Normandy which just come across as really odd. I know a lot of people feel that the choices made aren't properly developed, but I feel like the conflict between synthetic and organic life is something that has been an important background theme of the games since the first one. Saren's entire plot in Mass Effect 1 is hinged around the idea of synthesis, although his vision of synthesis is coloured by his indoctrination.
In a lot of ways you could look at Mass Effect 2's consistent focus on parental issues as playing into the wider theme of rebellion and conflict between creators and the created. To be honest given how prominently the Geth figured into 3 and the tone of the conversations with Javik I assumed that the finale would be moving towards a conflict between the synthetic and organic, as such the choices didn't seem as out of left field to me as it did to some. I also liked that the Reapers motivations were actually fairly simple, but were still undeniably alien. When Sovereign said "You could not comprehend what we do" Bioware sort of wrote a cheque they couldn't cash, so I think having the Reapers act in a way that is efficently, brutally, maniacally, logical was enough of a wiggle to maintain a sense of alienness. I actually like that the Reapers actually feel they're aiding the galaxy, transforming and uplifting the species into their own Reapers. It sort of explains a lot of the odder moments of ME2's finale and how the Geth describe the Reapers, they're essentially a sci-fi version of Noah's ark. If Noah used a blender to save space.
I love the game, unapologetically. Think it's amazing from a character perspective and I'm amazed at how much forward momentum the game had. I finished it in just 39 hours, but it felt like half the time. There are so many moments in the game that were just stunning, my highlight is probably the Fall of Thessia. Largely because I was so invested in the universe by that point that I had the conflicting emotions of feeling betrayed by the Asari for their use of Prothean tech and both deep remorse at seeing a place which I'd wanted to vist since ME1 reduced to ash and smoke.
The game was also littered with so many great, specific, moments for my Shepherd. Having to gun Mordin down to stop the Genophage stung like a motherfucker, having to kill Wrex was awful, Thane's final prayer was oddly moving, whilst I felt genuinely elated for the Quarins and the Geth who were able to come to some sort of compromise.
In fact my only real gripe is about Liara who had so little to say compared to the other characters and seemed to revert to her naive ME1 self. I actually got kind of pissed off at her during Thessia, when she was only just realising how devastating the Reapers were. Just her constant bleating about Thessia really rubbed me the wrong way, considering what had already happened in the game. Similarly her attempts to defend the Asari vis-a-vis the Protheans made her feel a lot more complicit in that entire thing than she actually was. It's a shame because I liked Liara in 1 and loved her character in 2, but she was kind of a cipher in 3 aside from two or three scenes. Ashley was the same, whilst she wasn't my favourite character in 1 she was at least interesting and it felt like a lot of what made her dynamic (her orrenery personality, her extreme views) were the only things the writers used in the game. It sort of made her seem very one note. In comparison James, Garrus, Javik and even the miscellanous crew all felt really vital and alive. I mean I feel I had for more interesting conversations and interactions with Steve Cortez than I did with Ashley, who was my Shepherd's nominal love interest. Hell Jack, who you meet for all of fifteen minutes, felt like she had way more growth between games than Ash and Liara.
But these are really minor issues and to be honest I adore this game just as much as I did 1 and 2, possibly a little more than 2. There are so many great character moments and decisions that I can't help but look over the niggles.
You really need to make the Genophage/Mordin choice as a paragon. Or at least look on YouTube.
You really need to make the Genophage/Mordin choice as a paragon. Or at least look on YouTube.
A friend of mine flatly informed me "I can't play Renegade in this game anymore" after he looked on youtube. Though I'm very much a fan of how much less-relevant the whole Paragon/Renegade thing is in this game (and it's really just the overall "reputation" that unlocks dialogue/etc...). Made it feel even more comfortable when I took a few of those Renegade interrupts at moments I was pretty sure my Shepard would (like after the Geth Dreadnaught mission).
Balanced has always been the most enjoyable and rewarding to play, I don't think I'll ever understand those who just stick to holding down bottom-left/right or top-left/right all the way through and will ignore an interrupt because they have to be 100% one way or the other or such nonsense.
Having messed up meeting him in my initial playthrough, I met Conrad properly last night. He started going on about dark energy then said he needed ancient Asari translations, at which point Shep went "Hey, I've a load of ancient Matriarch writings" and I was like 'no fucking way are they talking about that hideous collection quest from Mass Effect...are they?' Then he said he needed an Elkoss Combine license and I DIDN'T BLOODY HAVE ONE because their gear was always rubbish so I only bought licenses for Armax, Serrice et al. Now I'm wondering if they're just fucking with us or if there really is more dialogue with him if you had every license or something...
Bastards.
There is - and it totally inverts the entire character concept and turns Conrad FUCKING Verner into a useful character who contributes value to the war effort and helps in the construction of the Crucible.
It is amazing.
My biggest beef with ME2/3 (aside from the series end, which is everybody's biggest beef) was that the Renegade options are almost always cooler than the Paragon options. My paragon playthrough was full of hugs, shoulder pats, "no, don't kill yourself" and one instance of punching Zaeed in the face (yea!).
A Renegade playthrough, however, is highlighted by moments such as sticking a hydrospanner into some batarian's solar plexus, shoving a cocky henchman out a 100th-story plate-glass window, headbutting a krogan, ROFLSTOMP-PWNING Kai-Leng, and CAPPING THE MOTHERFUCKING ILLUSIVE MAN.
I don't necessarily adhere to one specific path or another, and try to role-play my Shep as well as I can regarding what I would do (Shoot fuel tank underneath monologue-happy krogan warlord? Sure. Shoot love interest over balding, stick-up-ass human councilor? Not so much), so maybe these things aren't as apparent to people that stick to one path, I don't know. I just feel like there was ample opportunity for more "stick up for the little guy" justicar moments, and less "don't cry, here is a teddy bear" moments, regarding Paragon.
That's always been something that amuses me greatly about the games. My Shepard comes across as practically a bundle of uncontained violence wrapped up in a Quarian hugging flesh-frame.
And Spike, you make me feel slightly better.
Yeah, Spike has salved my wounds a little too. I also agree with the "balanced" approach to playing ME. Sometimes going Renegade just feels right and largely I use my own emotional responses to guide decisions. My very first playthrough of ME1, I intended to do a pure Paragon playthrough, being somewhat familiar with Bioware's morality mechanics from other games.
Then I met Manuel.
Shit, you know what I was expecting? Something like Dragon Age Origins, where I've actually got some OPTIONS in how I handle everything.
Silly Lauren, I think it's becoming pretty clear now that that sort of thing was what we could expect from the old Bioware. This new Bioware has demographics to hit, masters and shareholders to please. How the hell do you post a larger profit this quarter from the last if you actually take the sort of time and care it takes to make a game the likes of DA:O?
I don't think this new Bioware is that different from the older Bioware. I just think it's obvious now that the writers aren't nearly as self-aware of what they do as one would think. I mean because Spike's pretty much right. Mass Effect 3 is a fucking excellent game that doesn't know how to nail the ending. And the problem lies with Bioware seemingly WANTING to say something they might not fundamentally have the skill yet to say.
And I know I've said this so many times it sounds like I'm just ragging on Bioware, but I'm not. Bioware has always done SOOO many things right, and pretty much all of Mass Effect 3 hits my pleasure buttons. It's just that ending doesn't jell with me properly, and I can't help thinking that this is a writing problem at it's core.
I agree, I just wonder what sort of auxilliary pressures those writers have been under post-EA takeover that may have not been present in the early days when they could spend four or even six years developing a game without shareholders and powers-that-be to satisfy quite as much as they do now.
Personally I didn't hate the ending, I can even live without closure. It;s more the sense that it was rushed out and not given the weight and thought it deserved that's left a mild aftertaste.
That said, the Mass Effect games will always be landmarks for me now, the universe has become one of my favorite genre worlds to spend time in and I thoroughly look forward to the eventual epic film franchise. I'm no Bioware hater here, but there (understandably) seem to have been a rather significant shit in priorities for the studio that colour and effect the things that made them so fantastic and exciting as a studio to begin with.
I'm surprised so many people are focusing on the very, very ending rather than the whole game, the ending of the series, which is almost just as flawed. I kind of pushed a half-ass argument in the main game thread that the Mass Effect games are similar to other franchises, like Twilight, that are held with a lot of disdain. Can anyone really say that this game isn't as good (or bad) as the best Twilight film? I know we're comparing apples and oranges here, but the story is sloppy, the plotting drags, the new characters are not interesting, and the old characters are forced upon you just to either say goodbye to or to quickly dispose of. The only satisfying character ending is Mordrin. I fucked up with the Tali and Legion options and they both ended up dead, and I liked that the choices there had consequences. But then Shepard moves from being torn up about killing his friends to acting like he doesn't give a shit. Choices alone don't define character, characters need to have consistency. A couple of characters mention Shepard's loss at various times, but he barely reflects on it. The way the game is set-up, he's more upset about some kid he's never met than Mordrin, or anyone else you say goodbye to.
And that stems right up to the ending. There's no weight to the thing. In the second game, if you made bad choices, people got killed. In the end of this game, both of your choices ultimately result in the same thing, the pre-scripted Shepard as Christ Figure. Whatever consequences you think there might be are secondary because they really have no bearing on any of the characters, only "you," the player. That's boring and means your decisions lack drama. The ending itself is bug-nuts enough for me to give them credit, but man do they drop the ball with the final reveal. I'm not up in arms with it enough to want them to redo it, but seriously, what were they thinking? Your crew mates just land in The Land of the Lost perfectly fine? If anything, this reminds me a bit of the ending to LOST. It's crazy how much they kinda fumbled here. Mega Man 2 has a more satisfying emotional climax.
I dunno, it could be outside pressure, but most of Mass Effect 3 doesn't feel rushed in the slightest.
And then I remember that Bioware took a good look at Dragon Age: Origins and didn't take one hard look at Duncan and go back to the drawing board.
Mass Effect 3 definitely felt rushed to me, personally, to the point where I felt the ending was a lesser problem. I've had way more bugged quests and crashes in one and a half playthroughs of ME3 than my innumerable ME2 runs. Also, there was clearly an issue with optimization as it concerns disc switching, which was pretty much painless and predictable in ME2 and a drag for the first third of ME3. Most importantly for me, however, the complete lack of hub worlds other than the Citadel and the lack of sophistication, variety, or even gameplay in the sidequests speaks of a very rushed production. I really enjoyed the game, don't get me wrong, but the more I think on it the more likely I'd be to place it as the lowest quality game in the series. ME1 was an extremely rough game in retrospect, but had the advantage of exploration potential, customization, and a storyline which had clear progression and a singular and unique antagonist who could be confronted directly. ME2 was of course a massive leap forward in almost every way from ME1, even if its story meandered somewhat and created more dissonance with the ostensible urgency of your mission and the variety of distracting sidequests. ME3...I dunno, man, it definitely has the best combat in the series but even people who love that shit like me probably don't really play ME for the shooting.
Edit: Another way that ME3 felt very rushed was a lack of enemy types. I killed thousands and thousands of Geth in my playthroughs of the first game, so for the three missions or so of ME3 where I get to fight Geth to come as a huge relief is kind of fucked up. There are as many distinct enemy groups with different tactics and units in the Archangel mission of ME2 as there are in all of ME3.
Personally I didn't hate the ending, I can even live without closure. It;s more the sense that it was rushed out and not given the weight and thought it deserved that's left a mild aftertaste.
That said, the Mass Effect games will always be landmarks for me now, the universe has become one of my favorite genre worlds to spend time in and I thoroughly look forward to the eventual epic film franchise. I'm no Bioware hater here, but there (understandably) seem to have been a rather significant shit in priorities for the studio that colour and effect the things that made them so fantastic and exciting as a studio to begin with.
Pretty much my take on the whole thing. I can see what they were going for with the ending, but they just didn't think it through and wound up striking a massive bum note that resonates discordantly with everything you've seen before. I could take Shep dying, or an ending that leaves more questions than answers - shit, some of my favourite stories have vague endings and I liked it when they did the 'everyone together' thing in the Matrix films. This ending, however, was Bioware 'getting clever' in lieu of any cohesive idea of how to end the saga.
Overall though, the great moments of ME3 outweigh the bad. the attack on Earth; curing the Genophage; Rannoch; THAT desperate sprint across No-Man's Land (still one of the most genuine heart-in-mouth moments any game has given me). It's just a pity that the asset easter-egg hunts and multiplayer requirements sucked a lot of the story's momentum halfway through. Oh, and Javik? Bullshit it'd be a satisfying experience without him around. Learning the true nature of the Protheans? Their history with the Reapers? That particular conversation on Thessia that tells you... Well, a fuckton? This is all stuff we've been wondering about (And which Bioware have hinted heavily at) since the first game, and all stuff I can't buy was never planned to be included in ME3. I'm glad I got to hear it all, but Bioware... I love you guys, but that wasn't fair. And I can respect what you were trying to achieve with the ending (And for the record, don't think you should be forced to rewrite it), but the way it was set up? Also unfair.
Still, I can't deny that this game has given me some of the greatest moments I've experienced in my videogaming history. Such a huge bundle of contradictions...
I know, there's so much love for what they actually did achieve, yet I can't get stels incredibly pertinent question out of my head...
...why did they promise as so much choice and consequence when they gave us such a limited number of ending options? What happened there to cause such an epic puss-out from the hyperbole?
I know, there's so much love for what they actually did achieve, yet I can't get stels incredibly pertinent question out of my head...
...why did they promise as so much choice and consequence when they gave us such a limited number of ending options? What happened there to cause such an epic puss-out from the hyperbole?
I agree. What's wrong with a 'happy' ending if the way you've played the character up to this point deserves it? Kill Shep? If you insist. Bittersweet? Sure. But if we've spent all this time playing the game the way the story dictates is the best way, why not just give us the chance to kill the fucking Reapers without the gaming equivalent of the Pepsi Challenge disorienting us in the literal last few seconds of play? Let our ending be determined by what Shepard is to US, not some cheesy relativistic trick that gives us an extremely limited set of options that... just... gives us shit choices, none of which (In my case at least) felt entirely comfortable with the Shep we know? It's like they were scared that if they dared provide a simple, straightforward paragon ending they'd be accused of pussing out and overcompensated.
So if I play without Javik is it going to completely suck?
I don't do DLC. I want my game to come on a disk, slot into the machine, and play in its entirety.
Now that we all know I'm a loner psycho-luddite, what do you think my ME3 will look like since I did no extras in any of my previous playthroughs? No Katsumi, no Zaeed, no asteroid billiards with the Batarians. Will the (admittedly rare) factory-standard customer get a decent through-line or is it all disjointed?
Javik, Kasumi, Zaeed, Bring Down the Sky, et al arent necessary per se, but they add lots of really great touches to the experience.
If anything, I'd say Shadow Broker is the only DLC I'd say ME3 is actively hurt by not doing. Javik comes damn close, but the game could probably soldier along without him fine.
Mass Effect 3 definitely felt rushed to me, personally, to the point where I felt the ending was a lesser problem. I've had way more bugged quests and crashes in one and a half playthroughs of ME3 than my innumerable ME2 runs. Also, there was clearly an issue with optimization as it concerns disc switching, which was pretty much painless and predictable in ME2 and a drag for the first third of ME3. Most importantly for me, however, the complete lack of hub worlds other than the Citadel and the lack of sophistication, variety, or even gameplay in the sidequests speaks of a very rushed production. I really enjoyed the game, don't get me wrong, but the more I think on it the more likely I'd be to place it as the lowest quality game in the series. ME1 was an extremely rough game in retrospect, but had the advantage of exploration potential, customization, and a storyline which had clear progression and a singular and unique antagonist who could be confronted directly. ME2 was of course a massive leap forward in almost every way from ME1, even if its story meandered somewhat and created more dissonance with the ostensible urgency of your mission and the variety of distracting sidequests. ME3...I dunno, man, it definitely has the best combat in the series but even people who love that shit like me probably don't really play ME for the shooting.
Edit: Another way that ME3 felt very rushed was a lack of enemy types. I killed thousands and thousands of Geth in my playthroughs of the first game, so for the three missions or so of ME3 where I get to fight Geth to come as a huge relief is kind of fucked up. There are as many distinct enemy groups with different tactics and units in the Archangel mission of ME2 as there are in all of ME3.
I agree with all of this. I think you and I liked the first two ME games for different reasons than a lot of other folks.
Yahtzee's review nails a lot, but here's what encapsulates some of my complaints about the game itself:
"I'm just going to say it: I liked the [mako] in the first game! At least it made it seem like the galaxy had things in it besides linear arrangements of chest high walls."
The ending's a mess, and yes, the story is nice and appropriately dreary and melodramatic for a trilogy-ending game, but it's the game itself I'm most disappointed by.
