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In Sanford, Florida, murder is not a crime as long as the victim is African American - Page 19

post #901 of 1397

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JuddL View Post

Agreed, on the first comment.  It's still mostly Zimmerman's fault.  Keyword "mostly".  From everything that I've read, that seems like the most likely scenario of what occurred.  Perhaps not, perhaps Zimmerman instigated everything, but from the information available out there it's at the very least ambiguous who instigated the fight (even if Zimmerman created the situation by wantonly following Martin in the first place).

 

On the second part, my hypothetical serves to underscore 1) that if Zimmerman wasn't lying to police about what happened (a big "if" to many), then Trayvon through his own brashness helped escalate the situation, and 2) that really this is an issue about guns not race.

 

The information available is limited to Zimmerman's account, which is highly suspect, and some hearsay from the girl on the phone, which may be admissible in court since Trayvon is dead but is still secondhand at best.  Even so, I don't find it all that ambiguous.  Even if Trayvon initially turned around and confronted him, I have an extremely hard time believing that the armed volunteer watchman who was stalking the kid because he found his skin color suspicious responded coolly and appropriately. 

 

And to your second part, this is absolutely about race, and I don't think it's about guns.  But it's also, and in some ways more importantly, about SYG, and the fucked up precedent it has set that as long as you kill the other guy (regardless of what you use to do it), you get the full benefit of the doubt that he was the one who started the fight.  Which is an absolutely horrible message for the justice system to be sending out.  "Well, you committed battery, but if you kill the guy you'll probably get off with nothing!"

post #902 of 1397
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diva View Post

The reason no one believed Zimmerman was in a scuffle was because until recently there was no evidence to corroborate it. The police video tapes show no signs of Zimmerman having a broken nose or his head bashed in nor were his clothes dirty or crumpled. Moreover, Zimmerman refused medical services by EMT. If he indeed was bleeding, this suggests the police let Zimmerman go home and shower/change before bringing him to the precinct for questioning! Which if true suggests they let him get rid of crucial evidence.

 

While Zimmerman is getting the brunt of people's ire, it is amazing to me that people aren't more outraged at the Sanford police and their complete ineptitude and/or disregard for conducting a thorough investigation. As Graham mentioned, I too am questioning where Tray's cell phone is. He was on it when he and Zimmerman made contact. It couldn't have been far from his body. Yet, Tray's body spent 3 days in the county morgue because Sanford police claim they didn't know who he was. And they claim they don't have his cell phone. If they don't have it, who does? I hope the Justice Department investigation releases reports on what the Sanford police did and didn't know about.

 

Don't forget that the police tested Trayvon for drugs or alcohol in his system and DID NOT test Zimmerman (they found none in Trayvon, I'm sure to their disappointment) .  We will never know if he was under the influence of something.  Another thing we have to take his word for.

post #903 of 1397

Zimm is out on bail.  

post #904 of 1397

I think the photo is a nice piece of sensationalist "gotcha!" evidence for Zimmerman's supporters, but it doesn't prove anything one way or the other when scrutinised. There was a fight. This much has been established. What troubles me is Zimmerman's account, which does NOT jive with his character as reported and reinforced by both the known details building up to the shooting and the multiple documented instances of his temper in the past. I do not for one second believe that he was confronted when leaving the scene, nor that he did not escalate the situation when face-to-face with Trayvon. I don't think he's evil, I don't think he's a coldblooded killer, I think he's an aggressive dummy who panicked when his game of cops and robbers didn't go exactly as he'd envisioned.

 

Also, for what it's worth, Diva is 100% right about who should be getting more outrage in this situation. Zimmerman killed Trayvon, but the police department and the justice system failed both of them, as well as the community itself.

post #905 of 1397

Any blame on the Sanford police has been successfully obfuscated.  It's all blaming the media now.  For example: http://theconservativetreehouse.com/

 

 

post #906 of 1397

Speaking of the media blitz, we can thank Benjamin Crump for bringing this case to a national audience.

 

Benjamin Crump gains national spotlight representing underdogs, fighting for civil rights

 

The article is worth a read. This guy is a defense attorney who takes on cases that most people don't want to take - and they aren't all sensational cases. He's well known in the Black community and tireless works to ensure that justice is for all. It seems the Martin's contacted him to bring attention to their son's case.

 

He's most famous for the following case from a few years ago. I remember how fucked up this verdict was. It still shocks me.

 

Quote:
While the Trayvon Martin case has brought Crump widespread notoriety, he got his first taste of national media attention for his work representing the family of Martin Lee Anderson, the 14-year-old who died in 2006 after being struck by guards at a Bay County juvenile boot camp.

 

He helped garner for the family more than $7 million in civil judgments from the state and county, only to see the prison guards who beat Martin acquitted in their criminal trial after an all-white jury deliberated for 90 minutes. Years later, the U.S. Justice Department decided not to pursue hate crime charges. The outcome of the criminal case was a brutal defeat for Crump, who hoped for convictions to help bring closure and justice to the boy's parents.

 

After the verdict, which stunned many in the state, Crump famously said: "You kill a dog and go to jail; you kill a little black boy and nothing happens."

 

post #907 of 1397

"You kill a dog and go to jail; you kill a little black boy and nothing happens."

 

Aint it the sad truth.

post #908 of 1397

Hmm, I feel like this guy is being scapegoated. It takes more than one person to bungle a case like this.

 

 

Quote:
Chief Bill Lee of the Sanford Police Department in Sanford, Florida, plans to resign, a city official familiar with the matter said Monday.

Lee's department was criticized for its handling of the investigation into the February 26 shooting death of Trayvon Martin, an unarmed teenager.

Lee said one month ago that he was stepping down temporarily, a day after the Sanford City Commission expressed no confidence in his leadership.


Read more: http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/state/sanford-police-chief-bill-lee--expected-to-resign#ixzz1st4Iy3XL

 


 

post #909 of 1397

The city of Sanford rejected his resignation.

post #910 of 1397

The common complaint now seems to be that Zimm will never get a fair trial because of the all the media sensationalism.  

 

But I find this hilariously (and sadly) ironic, since blacks have been getting shafted in the media since... well, since media was invented; portraying them as violent, vulgar, ignorant and dangerous sub humans, programming an entire generation to avoid, fear, and unfairly prejudge them...blacks have had far more damage done to them by media than a thousand Zimmerman media fiascos combined.  And this very same media manipulation is exactly what led to Trayvon being stalked and unfortunately killed.  

 

So yeah, boo-fucking-hoo for George Zimmerman.

post #911 of 1397
Thread Starter 

That bail hearing was a joke.  Some people are saying there won't even be a trial.  I just hope the Feds step in. 

post #912 of 1397

Take note, folks - this is the kind of open-faced systemic bigotry that, up until now, you'd only read about in history books.

post #913 of 1397

We've been saying for ages now how the election of Obama brought the racists out of the woodwork. Now I'm starting to believe they are the woodwork.

post #914 of 1397

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Singer View Post

The city of Sanford rejected his resignation.

 


good...I think?

Could it be that some of the members of the City Commission might support Lee and don't think he did anything wrong?  

 

IMO, I can't help but think that Lee's 'attempted' resignation was nothing more than a way to try and extricate himself from having to accept any of the responsibility for this incident.

 

Also, if he resigns he might get some pension $$, but if he's fired, no pension $$.

 

post #915 of 1397

I don't know how there couldn't be a trial since the girl at the end of the phone, at the very least, throws Zimm's version into question.  He always says he was jumped.  She made it sound like Zimm found Martin first and there was an exchange of words before anything happened.

(well, I do know how there couldn't be a trial.  There's all sorts of reasons evidence can be ruled inadmissable.  There'd have to be at least pre-trial to hash out what gets on the table.  But you know what I mean)

 

Also, any primary school teacher will tell you a minor scape on the scalp will bleed like a motherfucker and make the other kids scream.  But it stops pretty fast and everyone is back to the playground working on new injuries.

We so badly need to find out if the cops did the scene.  Geez, Florida cops call Dexter any time someone fires a gun on TV.  Can't have fictional police being more thorough and by the book can we.

 

 

post #916 of 1397

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Singer View Post

We've been saying for ages now how the election of Obama brought the racists out of the woodwork. Now I'm starting to believe they are the woodwork.

 

This! I knew it was out there, but I don't really hang out with the kind of people who openly express this shit...I grossly underestimated how much racism is alive and well in this country.

post #917 of 1397

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by VTRan View Post


good...I think?

Could it be that some of the members of the City Commission might support Lee and don't think he did anything wrong?  

 

IMO, I can't help but think that Lee's 'attempted' resignation was nothing more than a way to try and extricate himself from having to accept any of the responsibility for this incident.

 

Also, if he resigns he might get some pension $$, but if he's fired, no pension $$.

 

 

I heard one of the council members repeating, "What did Lee do wrong? Will someone with any knowledge of law enforcement tell me what if any thing he did wrong?"

 

So at least one of the people wouldn't accept it because they think he's cool.

post #918 of 1397

561865_10151548493180089_506630088_24008579_1583013826_n.jpg

post #919 of 1397

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeI View Post

I heard one of the council members repeating, "What did Lee do wrong? Will someone with any knowledge of law enforcement tell me what if any thing he did wrong?"

 

 

His job?

post #920 of 1397

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muzman View Post
We so badly need to find out if the cops did the scene.  Geez, Florida cops call Dexter any time someone fires a gun on TV.  Can't have fictional police being more thorough and by the book can we.

 

grab your sunglasses...

 

csi-miami-david-caruso.jpg

 

 the initial investigation seems to have been so incompetent...were the cops too busy looking for their "Who" CD? 

post #921 of 1397

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by VTRan View Post

 

 

grab your sunglasses...

 

csi-miami-david-caruso.jpg

 

 the initial investigation seems to have been so incompetent...were the cops too busy looking for their "Who" CD? 

 

What's a CD?

 

"colored delinquent"?

post #922 of 1397

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham View Post

What's a CD?

 

"colored delinquent"?

 

csimaimigif.gif

 

 

YEEEEAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

post #923 of 1397
post #924 of 1397
Thread Starter 

 

 


Cue false equivalencies....


Edited by yt - 4/25/12 at 9:59am
post #925 of 1397

People keep posting this link and I don't know why. What does it have to do with the Martin case other than some alleged statement someone made after the melee ensued? The impetus of the attack seems to be that Owen chased some Black kids with a knife after they attempted to get a basket ball from their yard. Thus, his beating was related to the fact that he attempted to physically assault little kids who had no intention of harming him. Moreover, there are no arrests because it there was a mob of people - meaning there are a whole lot of people to investigate. Further, the cops ARE investigating the assault. So, yes, while this case is very tragic it says nothing about supposed media bias, police investigation bias, etc. I am wary of anyone who posts this links without an explanation for why they are doing so.

post #926 of 1397

What she said. Also, holy shit who is editing those news posts? I know it's a Florida news deal, but still.

post #927 of 1397

Yeah, that probably looks like I'm trolling, apologies.  But it's like yt said.

 

I've been seeing articles like that pop up frequently, and they're getting more sensational.  That one makes it sound like there's a race war about to pop off in the neighborhood.  I thought the instance of such articles would die down, but certain media sources are still trying to tie every black on white incident as being some sort of backlash.

 

On that incident specifically, I kinda doubt any of them said something to the effect of "that was for Trayvon." 

post #928 of 1397

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBananaGrabber View Post

Yeah, that probably looks like I'm trolling, apologies.  But it's like yt said.

 

I've been seeing articles like that pop up frequently, and they're getting more sensational.  That one makes it sound like there's a race war about to pop off in the neighborhood.  I thought the instance of such articles would die down, but certain media sources are still trying to tie every black on white incident as being some sort of backlash.

 

On that incident specifically, I kinda doubt any of them said something to the effect of "that was for Trayvon." 

 


What they probably said was "That was for Trayvon......motherfucker".

post #929 of 1397

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBananaGrabber View Post

On that incident specifically, I kinda doubt any of them said something to the effect of "that was for Trayvon." 

 

Yeah, I'd put money on that never having happened, actually.

post #930 of 1397
post #931 of 1397

The comments under that video made me physically ill.

post #932 of 1397

And once again, ignorant racists fail to understand why the Trayvon Martin case garnered national attention and public outcry. It wasn't simply because a white guy killed a black kid. It was because no one in a position to do anything about it seemed to really give a shit. So while these dumb fucks are shrieking "Justice for Owens!" they are ignoring the fact that this case is being vigorously investigated and an arrest has already been made. The "justice" they are demanding is actively taking place. Unlike what was happening at this same point in the Martin case.

post #933 of 1397

A lot of those posters are confusing "justice" with "wall-to-wall media attention".  They just want to have OMG BLACK PEOPLE BEAT UP WHITE GUY to be the lead story.

post #934 of 1397

George Zimmerman and/or his people are going on a media blitz to clean his image.

 

Quote:

But a more nuanced portrait of Zimmerman has emerged from a Reuters investigation into Zimmerman's past and a series of incidents in the community in the months preceding the Martin shooting.

 

Based on extensive interviews with relatives, friends, neighbors, schoolmates and co-workers of Zimmerman in two states, law enforcement officials, and reviews of court documents and police reports, the story sheds new light on the man at the center of one of the most controversial homicide cases in America.

 

The 28-year-old insurance-fraud investigator comes from a deeply Catholic background and was taught in his early years to do right by those less fortunate.

 

He was raised in a racially integrated household and himself has black roots through an Afro-Peruvian great-grandfather - the father of the maternal grandmother who helped raise him.

 

A criminal justice student who aspired to become a judge, Zimmerman also concerned himself with the safety of his neighbors after a series of break-ins committed by young African-American men.

 

 

The link has a ton of info about Zim's background and childhood experiences. As well as a few more photos than posted below.

 

article-0-12C4F582000005DC-949_306x423.jpg

 

article-2135271-12C4F4CE000005DC-329_306x423.jpg

 

article-2135271-12C4F4DF000005DC-113_306x423.jpg

 

post #935 of 1397

Jesus wept this really is a national car crash in slow motion isn't it.

post #936 of 1397

I said it before. No matter what the verdict, no one wins.

post #937 of 1397

Will anything be learned from this do you think Diva?

post #938 of 1397

Have you seen our educational rankings? Learning is un-American.

post #939 of 1397

 

 

Quote:
He was raised in a racially integrated household and himself has black roots through an Afro-Peruvian great-grandfather

 

Hey, everybody, it's okay, he's part black!  Sorry for all the fuss!

post #940 of 1397

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post

 

 

 

Hey, everybody, it's okay, he's part black!  Sorry for all the fuss!

 

Black on black crime. Such a problem in America.

post #941 of 1397

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post

 

 

 

Hey, everybody, it's okay, he's part black!  Sorry for all the fuss!

 

Yeah why am I even paying attention?

post #942 of 1397

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rain Dog View Post

Black on black crime. Such a problem in America.

 

post #943 of 1397

 

Quote:
Based on extensive interviews with relatives, friends, neighbors, schoolmates and co-workers of Zimmerman in two states, law enforcement officials, and reviews of court documents and police reports, the story sheds new light on the man at the center of one of the most controversial homicide cases in America.

 

Nooooo! Let me keep the picture I had of him in my head at the beginning so I can hold on to all those conclusions I leapt to!

 

post #944 of 1397

 

It doesn't matter how "nice" this guy is or was, a person is dead and he is responsible. Therefore, he gets the rope. Fer chrissakes, has no one read Billy Budd?

post #945 of 1397

Oh well he seemed like a nice guy and gives to charity and totally looked innocent when he was twelve years old. He's a fuckin' patriot and a hero!

post #946 of 1397

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PMR View Post

 

 

Nooooo! Let me keep the picture I had of him in my head at the beginning so I can hold on to all those conclusions I leapt to!

 

 

Of course, you know,  it doesn't change the fact that he killed a kid.  Just as much as Trayvon Martin's supposed "thugness" didn't warrant a death sentence, Zimmerman's "saintly" existence doesn't excuse the fact that he was morally in the wrong that night.

post #947 of 1397

David Simon says everyone is missing the point in this case (my apologies if this has already been posted):

 

 

 

Quote:

Now, anyone — regardless of their role, training or ultimate purpose —  can bring a gun to an argument and take a life.  And then, if they can manufacture enough of a threat to their person, they can justify the act.  Maybe witnesses will be present to contradict their version of events; maybe not.  Maybe there will be physical evidence to invalidate their claims; maybe not.  But now, the baseline for responsibility lies not with the shooter, but with the state

.Guns don’t kill people, people do — this is the mantra that for generations has defined the prevailing ethos of the firearms lobby.  But now, the argument has moved on:  Guns don’t kill and neither do people; now, folks are just killed.  Shit happens is the new credo for this quiet, epic revolution in our country – one that has already led to many more homicides that defy prosecution in the affected states.In the wake of the Trayvon Martin shooting, that’s the fundamental that relatively few in the media scrum find interesting.  Legalisms have no real traction.  Rumors about Trayvon’s purported thugishness are a delight for some.  Tales of Zimmerman’s neurotic cop-wannabe behavior are a salve for the rest.  And for every article that carefully takes on the legal foundation, there are twenty or thirty more that fetishize the particulars of Zimmerman v. Martin.

A week or month or a year from now, someone else is going to walk up to a fresh victim in Florida or some other state burdened with stand-your-ground absurdity and we’ll have a new body over which to argue. Which is just fine, because does anyone really believe that our instant-assessment, instant-gratification media world  is capable of anything beyond the ad hominem?  Let them begin again and do what they do best:  Which one was the asshole?  Who is the bigger dickhead?  He deserved it.  No, he didn’t.  Which one am I rooting for?  Which one gets my vote?  Who wins?  Who loses?

Two men go in, one man comes out; may the lesser asshole win.

 

There's more at the link:http://davidsimon.com/i-meant-this/ but it also touches on a bunch of other stuff.  I also heartily recommend the Miami Herald piece he wrote.

post #948 of 1397

I'll vote for that guy.
 

post #949 of 1397

Zimmerman's awful website raised $200,000.  He's already spent 50K:

 

http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/27/justice/florida-zimmerman-money/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

 

I woke up in a bad mood today, that news didn't help.

post #950 of 1397

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBananaGrabber View Post

Zimmerman's awful website raised $200,000.  He's already spent 50K:

 

travis-bickle-smiling-mohawk.jpg

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