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The Racism & Social Injustice Catch-All - Page 21

post #1001 of 3049
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambler View Post

Isn't she being convicted of assault?  Of what?  The ceiling?  She never touched the guy...I just don't get it.

 

"Assault" can cover blatant threats to a person's safety whether you lay hands on them or not.  As opposed to "battery" which requires physical harm. 

 

Not saying whether it was properly applied in that case, but that's the distinction.  It would be pretty crazy if we had a system where you could chase people around swinging a club or shoot at them all you wanted and not break the law until you actually hit them.  But then, 31 states currently have a rule that actually requires less proof of self-defense when the battery victim dies...

post #1002 of 3049

20 years seems excessive though since you know, the guy is clearly a dangerous individual and beat women.  She seemed to have cause to fire a weapon...he even admitted he lied and they're taking his word for it?

post #1003 of 3049

Again, not saying it was properly applied, just that as a rule you don't have to do physical damage to be guilty of assault.

post #1004 of 3049
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambler View Post

20 years seems excessive though since you know, the guy is clearly a dangerous individual and beat women.  She seemed to have cause to fire a weapon...he even admitted he lied and they're taking his word for it?

 

The great state of Florida gives no leeway or room for interpretation. Fire a gun during the commission of a crime, get 20 years.

 

It's as retarded as "Three strikes" laws. When you take away the ability to consider context, stupid outcomes will result. When you do so with stakes this high, people's lives will be destroyed.

 

But hey, prisons are a profitable industry for the state, so it's not like there's a conflict of interest!

post #1005 of 3049

In somewhat related news, Neighborhood Watch is now called The Watch and the new trailer seems to try to sell it as MIB 4. Ah, skittish Hollywood with its bad timing.

post #1006 of 3049
Yeah, Neighborhood Watch should probably just go on the shelf for a decade or three.

In other only slightly related news, Ted Nugent continues to work his way toward having his own thread here. In an interview with CBS This Morning, Nugent goes from bragging about how many Make-A-Wish Foundation requests he gets to offering to suck the interviewer's cock in a single paragraph. If we could get the Motor City Madman and Mel Gibson into the same recording studio, it would be like Aerosmith meeting Run-D.M.C., if Aerosmith and Run-D.M.C. had done a public service announcement for Tourette's Syndrome.
post #1007 of 3049
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Blank View Post

In somewhat related news, Neighborhood Watch is now called The Watch and the new trailer seems to try to sell it as MIB 4. Ah, skittish Hollywood with its bad timing.

 

Neighborhood Watch itself might just change its name after all this

post #1008 of 3049

So the debate has become very relevant to me, personally.

Yesterday a co-worker and friend was killed in a domestic dispute in Dallas. He had gone to see his ex-girlfriend for some reason (possibly financial in nature, relating to the children he had spent the last few years helping to raise), there was a confrontation with her current boyfriend, and he was shot. Then he died. The specifics are pretty sketchy, but my conversations with the crime beat reporter assigned to the case by the Dallas Morning News seem to indicate that the police aren't expending a lot of man-hours on the case. After all, its just a dumb piece of gun violence and a young black guy is dead, so why bother with a lot of effort?

Two things about this bother me greatly. One, the only official statements on record are those of the shooter and his girlfriend. There is no other side to this case, because the other side is now dead. Because these two parties claim the shooting was in self-defense, its been handled as an open-and-shut case. My friend (call him Mr. Wall), tried to bust up into the woman's residence and her current boyfriend retreated, then shot him. I don't know about that. This shooter just happened to be armed at the time? He keeps strapped even when coalescing with his girl? Maybe they knew Mr. Wall was coming, maybe the weapon was next to his carkeys. I don't know. And neither does anybody else, except the two people with a particularly vested interest in recalling events in a very particular manner. I don't doubt there was a lot of stupidity involved. I don't doubt it was senseless and uncalled for and that my friend was dumb for involving himself in the situation. But when there is a killing, and only party is armed, I think maybe there should be a bit more care taken in determining what has happened, and why. Mr. Wall didn't go over there looking to get shot, and the official statements that are the only existing narrative for what happened appear (to me, obviously biased a bit) fairly unbelievable.

The other thing that bothers me is the weapon itself. Nobody knows the status of the gun used, and the police haven't made that information public. Given the participants, I sort of suspect the gun wasn't purchased at a Wal-Mart after a three-day wait period. But since the case is being handled as a 'self-defense' case, the status of the weapon has never entered the public record, and as far as the crime reporter on the case can ascertain, it was never confiscated as evidence. Which seems astonishing to me. Perhaps there is a very good reason this information is not available at this time, but at the moment, the only thing that can be puzzled together is that this was a case of self-defense, and so from the police's perspective, the legality of the weapon itself is irrelevant, and has not been verified. Because Second Amendment. I guess. I don't know. 

If these two young men had decided to determine their fate with a gun duel at noon on the wind-swept prairie, I think probably the victor would end up facing more legal scrutiny than the survivor of this particular one-gun, one-sided shootout. I just don't understand how a homicide involving one death, and only one gun, can be determined as 'self-defense' based solely on the testimony of two people who have all the reasons in the world to see the violence as 'self-defense.'

 

post #1009 of 3049
Thread Starter 

Zhukov, I'm so sorry.  What strikes me about what happened to Mr. Wall is how it doesn't sound like forensic evidence which could have told at least part of the tale was even collected, and if there's ever any reason for the police to reevaluate the shooting, it will be long gone.  It's so hard to believe that when there's a shooting like that, the police don't thoroughly investigate all possibilities beyond what the two people on the shooting end have to say.
 

post #1010 of 3049

That's horrible, Zhukov. So sorry for your loss. You've aptly illustrated the lunacy of SYG laws. I hope you get some closure, but it seems like any evidence the cops could have investigated might be long gone now.
 

post #1011 of 3049
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zhukov View Post

So the debate has become very relevant to me, personally.

Yesterday a co-worker and friend was killed in a domestic dispute in Dallas. He had gone to see his ex-girlfriend for some reason (possibly financial in nature, relating to the children he had spent the last few years helping to raise), there was a confrontation with her current boyfriend, and he was shot. Then he died. The specifics are pretty sketchy, but my conversations with the crime beat reporter assigned to the case by the Dallas Morning News seem to indicate that the police aren't expending a lot of man-hours on the case. After all, its just a dumb piece of gun violence and a young black guy is dead, so why bother with a lot of effort?

Two things about this bother me greatly. One, the only official statements on record are those of the shooter and his girlfriend. There is no other side to this case, because the other side is now dead. Because these two parties claim the shooting was in self-defense, its been handled as an open-and-shut case. My friend (call him Mr. Wall), tried to bust up into the woman's residence and her current boyfriend retreated, then shot him. I don't know about that. This shooter just happened to be armed at the time? He keeps strapped even when coalescing with his girl? Maybe they knew Mr. Wall was coming, maybe the weapon was next to his carkeys. I don't know. And neither does anybody else, except the two people with a particularly vested interest in recalling events in a very particular manner. I don't doubt there was a lot of stupidity involved. I don't doubt it was senseless and uncalled for and that my friend was dumb for involving himself in the situation. But when there is a killing, and only party is armed, I think maybe there should be a bit more care taken in determining what has happened, and why. Mr. Wall didn't go over there looking to get shot, and the official statements that are the only existing narrative for what happened appear (to me, obviously biased a bit) fairly unbelievable.

The other thing that bothers me is the weapon itself. Nobody knows the status of the gun used, and the police haven't made that information public. Given the participants, I sort of suspect the gun wasn't purchased at a Wal-Mart after a three-day wait period. But since the case is being handled as a 'self-defense' case, the status of the weapon has never entered the public record, and as far as the crime reporter on the case can ascertain, it was never confiscated as evidence. Which seems astonishing to me. Perhaps there is a very good reason this information is not available at this time, but at the moment, the only thing that can be puzzled together is that this was a case of self-defense, and so from the police's perspective, the legality of the weapon itself is irrelevant, and has not been verified. Because Second Amendment. I guess. I don't know. 

If these two young men had decided to determine their fate with a gun duel at noon on the wind-swept prairie, I think probably the victor would end up facing more legal scrutiny than the survivor of this particular one-gun, one-sided shootout. I just don't understand how a homicide involving one death, and only one gun, can be determined as 'self-defense' based solely on the testimony of two people who have all the reasons in the world to see the violence as 'self-defense.'

 

 

Sorry for your loss.

 

Reminds me of this.

 

Which led to this.

post #1012 of 3049

Sooo, this happened. :(
 

 

 

Quote:

Last Sunday, a group of Cornell's Sigma Pi fraternity brothers and alumni gathered on the roof to drink beers and enjoy the springtime weather. And how did the Ivy Leaguers wile away the day? By throwing beer and liquor bottles at a group of black students, and reportedly yelling "Come up here, Trayvon" and other racial slurs after one asked them to stop. Man, even just typing that out makes me feel all disgusting and depressed about humanity.

 

Sigma Pi's president said the fraternity was "sorry the incident happened on our premises" and that he was "shocked" to hear about it. Later, the house issued a statement saying that the attacker was a Sigma Pi brother from another house at a different, unnamed university. (Alumni also released a statement calling the incident "deeply disturbing and totally unacceptable.")

 

Sigma Pi also said that they know who's responsible for the beyond horrible "Trayvon" reference and have turned his name over to police. Even so, Cornell has temporarily suspended the off-campus fraternity pending a further investigation.

post #1013 of 3049
Thread Starter 

These people are so vile.  They probably didn't think there was anything wrong with it until somebody blew the whistle.

post #1014 of 3049

I love how they aren't apologizing for throwing bottles at Black people. Just that one student called them "Trayvon". What?!
 

post #1015 of 3049
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambler View Post

 

Which led to this.

 

Making nobody feel better about anything, County Attorney Andrew Thomas was disbarred this year.   I wouldn't be shocked to see that reopened at some point.

post #1016 of 3049

Take care Zhukov.

 

The Frat story reinforces my bias that nothing good has ever come from a frat.

post #1017 of 3049

TriLambs.jpg

post #1018 of 3049

This is why I'm bitter and cynical.

post #1019 of 3049

Here's a petition to have the Virginia Attorney General take action on this.

 

 

Quote:

The Hiller Armament Company of Virginia has been selling "Trayvon Targets" for shooting practice, complete with a black hoodie, Skittles, and an ice tea. It is utterly vile AND potentially illegal.

 

Virginia law "Prohibits the unauthorized use of a person's name, portrait or picture for advertising or trade purposes. The right continues for 20 years after death."

 

Tell Virgina Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli to shut them down and punish these people for illegally profiting off of Trayvon's tragic killing.

post #1020 of 3049

Signed it.

post #1021 of 3049

Another petition urging Mars Inc. (the maker of Skittles) to sue for trademark infringement on the manufacturer.

 

http://campaigns.dailykos.com/p/dia/action/public/?action_KEY=144

post #1022 of 3049

What the fuck is wrong with your country?

post #1023 of 3049

A lot of fucked up people, A lot.

post #1024 of 3049

Yeah, fat fucking chance. Cuccinelli probably bought a pack of those things.

post #1025 of 3049
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Merriweather View Post

What the fuck is wrong with your country?

 

My country has a really fucked up sense of humor. For the most part I love it but there are times like this that folks just go too far. What hurts is the person that designed the Trayvon target likely did it more for capitalistic reasons than racial hatred. Though designing and marketing your product to a demographic that is truly fucking evil in it's hateful nature should allow someone to murder you without consequence.

post #1026 of 3049
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Merriweather View Post

What the fuck is wrong with your country?

 

usmap-south.jpg

 

We have what is called "The South". It's been a serious pain in our ass for almost 200 years.

post #1027 of 3049

I've never gonna accept Oklahoma and Texas into our company.

 

And fuck you too Kentucky.

post #1028 of 3049

But...but Justified!!!

post #1029 of 3049
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwartz View Post

But...but Justified!!!

It's just a t.v. show, Schwartz.  It's not real.

post #1030 of 3049
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Decade View Post

 

usmap-south.jpg

 

We have what is called "The South". It's been a serious pain in our ass for almost 200 years.

 

Hey I live there.  It's not fair to call it a pain in our ass.

 

It is our ass.

post #1031 of 3049

But "ass" is certainly involved (which explains why it's so hot & muggy down there).

post #1032 of 3049

I know it's only a joke, but can we stop doing that shit?  Dividing up the country and saying, "It's them, they're the problem", not only ignores the fucked up people who are right in your own back yard (which is how shit like Prop 8 gets passed), but it gives up the whole region as a lost cause, which it isn't.  Nearly every metropolis area of the south leans left.  Even in Texas. 

 

Sorry, it's just a sentiment I'm getting really tired of seeing.  The assholes are everywhere, man. 

post #1033 of 3049
Quote:
But...but Justified!!!

 

 

Look at some point in time Kentucky committed some probably vague ill-defined transgression against the great state of Tennessee and thus I have to hate them for some reason.

 

At least that's the memo I got recently.

post #1034 of 3049
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grace View Post

I know it's only a joke, but can we stop doing that shit?  Dividing up the country and saying, "It's them, they're the problem", not only ignores the fucked up people who are right in your own back yard (which is how shit like Prop 8 gets passed), but it gives up the whole region as a lost cause, which it isn't.  Nearly every metropolis area of the south leans left.  Even in Texas. 

 

Sorry, it's just a sentiment I'm getting really tired of seeing.  The assholes are everywhere, man. 

 

Yes, we should stop, but.... as someone who has spent many years in three very different areas of this country I can say that the South is by far the worst place I have ever been... it's not close.

 

Besides, it is a joke, and we're preaching to the choir here anyway...

post #1035 of 3049
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grace View Post

I know it's only a joke, but can we stop doing that shit?  Dividing up the country and saying, "It's them, they're the problem", not only ignores the fucked up people who are right in your own back yard (which is how shit like Prop 8 gets passed), but it gives up the whole region as a lost cause, which it isn't.  Nearly every metropolis area of the south leans left.  Even in Texas. 

 

Sorry, it's just a sentiment I'm getting really tired of seeing.  The assholes are everywhere, man. 

 

Yes and this morning, the South is the target of our pessimistic, sarcastic jabs. Tomorrow it will be another group of assholes. Everybody has it comin', kid. Even me.

 

I doubt that anyone here would take such sweeping generalizations like the one I'd made seriously or believes that problem is that "black & white". That said, I hear your point about how exhausting & counter productive this kind of talk can be.

post #1036 of 3049

I do kinda get where Grace is coming from here though.

 

On one hand I really do love fucking around with the fact the south in general has a tendency to make themselves look like the biggest laughing stocks in the country, at the same time I get all irate an' shit over the attitude that we're kind of a lost cause full of nothing but dumbass hillbillies.*

 

Basically I have complex feelings and stuff.

 

 

*Not that WE don't have those mind you.

post #1037 of 3049
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grace View Post

I know it's only a joke, but can we stop doing that shit?  Dividing up the country and saying, "It's them, they're the problem", not only ignores the fucked up people who are right in your own back yard (which is how shit like Prop 8 gets passed), but it gives up the whole region as a lost cause, which it isn't.  Nearly every metropolis area of the south leans left.  Even in Texas. 

 

Sorry, it's just a sentiment I'm getting really tired of seeing.  The assholes are everywhere, man. 

 

So leaning left is ok and leaning by right by exclusion is not ok. Metropolitan areas are ok. The great unwashed in non metro areas by exclusion are not.  Looks like you did a little dividing up yourself there Grace.

post #1038 of 3049

Oh Jesus fucking Christ.

post #1039 of 3049

Yes, that's exactly what I meant.  You saw right through me.

 

Sorry for being a wet blanket this morning, guys, hadn't had my coffee yet.  And, honestly, I'm just bitter because I was raised in the South and moved to supposedly more rational, accepting place, and sometimes I really don't see much of a difference.

post #1040 of 3049

If it makes you feel better, feel free to go off on my hometown of Denver. Them knuckleheads just voted down gay marriage today.

 

Damn those thin air breathin', JohnDenver listenin', lumberjack shirt wearin', Mork & Mindy mountain goat fiddlers!

post #1041 of 3049
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaurenOrtega View Post

Oh Jesus fucking Christ.

 

I WAS FUCKING JOKING. Jesus fucking Christ in a sidecar. Jebus frakking Zomby Chryst.   Riddle me this: If conservative hearts bleed Red White and Blue what do liberal hearts bleed?

post #1042 of 3049
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdBighead View Post

 

So leaning left is ok and leaning by right by exclusion is not ok. Metropolitan areas are ok. The great unwashed in non metro areas by exclusion are not.  Looks like you did a little dividing up yourself there Grace.

 

You think the South leans right? Like... just... leans. Almost by definition, at the moment, you can't lean right. You're either on the right or you're a traitor to the country.

post #1043 of 3049
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Decade View Post

 

Damn those thin air breathin', JohnDenver listenin', lumberjack shirt wearin', Mork & Mindy mountain goat fiddlers!

 

 

...you have GOATS?

 

(warms hands...)

post #1044 of 3049
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeI View Post

 

You think the South leans right? Like... just... leans. Almost by definition, at the moment, you can't lean right. You're either on the right or you're a traitor to the country.

 

I live in the North. My county has NEVER gone Republican. EVER. We had one gay bar in town and it was burned to the ground. The only reaction around these parts is zero to "knee jerk". Gay Marriage? People here don't want to hear gay anything.It's one topic in which blacks and whites here agree on sadly. On paper my county leans so far left it's at a horizontal. In real life not so much. Demographics lie.

post #1045 of 3049
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdBighead View Post

I live in the North. My county has NEVER gone Republican. EVER. We had one gay bar in town and it was burned to the ground. The only reaction around these parts is zero to "knee jerk". Gay Marriage? People here don't want to hear gay anything.It's one topic in which blacks and whites here agree on sadly. On paper my county leans so far left it's at a horizontal. In real life not so much. Demographics lie.

 

No, they just tell the truth from a wider angle. You live in the rust belt, in the very definition of a swing state. New England is the opposite of the South, not your corner of Ohio. A region (not a county) that is strongly (not moderately) Democratic.

post #1046 of 3049

We've had this argument before, and I think we all know it goes nowhere. Ignorance, racism and bigotry know no geographical borders.

post #1047 of 3049

I was raised in the North and moved South.  I also travelled this country more extensively than most.  I have come to the shocking conclusion that assholes are everywhere.  In the South it's because they are conservative an god fearing only when it serves them best and enjoy looking down on anyone who disagrees, in the North they are still trying to form a union to bring back unions and in the West they think everyone should toke up and get along.  

 

Do what you feel you like at the end of the day, and for humanity's sake, please just do whatever makes you happiest without screwing things up for everyone else.

 

In my completely uneducated and non factual opinion, I believe the Defense, Insurance and Oil companies run our politicians, and that's both parties.  The most you can hope for is one that fights back as much as they can.

post #1048 of 3049
Quote:
I WAS FUCKING JOKING. Jesus fucking Christ in a sidecar. Jebus frakking Zomby Chryst.   Riddle me this: If conservative hearts bleed Red White and Blue what do liberal hearts bleed?

 

 

You are so deliciously witty.

post #1049 of 3049
Quote:
Originally Posted by jahosive View Post

I was raised in the North and moved South.  I also travelled this country more extensively than most.  I have come to the shocking conclusion that assholes are everywhere.  In the South it's because they are conservative an god fearing only when it serves them best and enjoy looking down on anyone who disagrees, in the North they are still trying to form a union to bring back unions and in the West they think everyone should toke up and get along. 

 

There is a good amount of evidence that shows the South (and conservative states) is associated with a lot of negative trends. I grew up in Florida. As soon as I turned 18 I left and never looked back. Good riddance.

 

Yes, there are assholes everywhere. But it's the uneducated assholes that I fear the most because they are the most easily swayed and most vocal. Guess who populates this group on average? I don't mind folks who have Southern Pride. But my quality of life has improved 1 million fold since I left that bigoted, conservative place, and when you look at the figures, the general population fares better the farther away from the South you go.

 

That said, is the South a lost cause? No. But I sure am happy to fight the good fight from afar.

post #1050 of 3049

Yeah, not to get all tribalist or anything (Urban West Lower Great Lakes Region ftw, baby!), but I see a fairly major imbalance between one region's fault being identified as "tends to disrespect women and ethnic minorities" and another's being "tends to overestimate the ability of marijuana to solve problems".   That particular equivocation needs some tweaking, methinks.

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