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The Racism & Social Injustice Catch-All - Page 2

post #51 of 7710

 

Quote:
Some sobbed as they talked about a dead boy and a man standing over him...

 

This has sickened me to the point of tears.

post #52 of 7710

If for whatever reason, Zimmerman is acquitted (this shit is going to trial, is going to be huge and there will be movies of the week for years), what city burns down? I am genuinely curious. This feels like it could go the way of a Rodney King if it goes south.

post #53 of 7710

Lake Mary/Sanford is pretty close to Orlando, but Martin was from the Miami area, which seems much more likely to be where something like that goes down.

post #54 of 7710
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post

Lake Mary/Sanford is pretty close to Orlando, but Martin was from the Miami area, which seems much more likely to be where something like that goes down.


I haven't lived in Central FL for over 15 years, but I could easily see parts of Orlando experiencing some unrest, if not actual riots.  

 

post #55 of 7710
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Decade View Post

Disgusting.

 

Bugs sawing off Florida.gif



You missed a spot, Doc.

 

south.png

post #56 of 7710

n36619244_35369672_232.jpg

If only they weren't so sexy...

post #57 of 7710

Listening to his voice, and seeing his face, Zimmerman is pretty obviously mentally ill. I have a hard time labeling him as evil per se, as I'm willing to bet that he's got a host of problems related to paranoia, anxiety, and aggression. It was probably just a matter of time for this guy. I just have to wonder a) how he never got diagnosed, and b) how the hell was he allowed to buy a gun?

 

Oh wait, it's the south.

 

Those aspects of this case aren't as flat out disturbing as the racial component, of course, but they're still there. After our nation moves on, tut-tuts racism, and then pats itself on the back for doing so, we'll just get back to the business of being shitty about mental health and guns. EDIT: And we also probably won't be any less racist.

post #58 of 7710

How long before the NRA doubles down in some stupid way and says something like "this wouldn't have happened if the kid had a gun", I wonder.

post #59 of 7710

Gunfights for everyone! America just like God intended! 

post #60 of 7710

I know the South is a favorite target around here, and most often deservedly so, but any quick Google search can turn up hundreds of tragedies like this all over the country. Why don't we try to keep this to case specifics, eh? When you start lumping entire regions together in hatred you end up sounding a lot like those other people who don't want mosques built here.

post #61 of 7710

Besides, the area in which this happened is as un-South as you can get.

post #62 of 7710

I don't hate the South. I grew up there, and still kinda live there, but I think that Northern VA has been excommunicated. But I've never been anywhere with as much a screw loose when it comes to gun laws, and all of America is pitiful when it comes to providing mental health services. Don't mean to paint the place with too broad a brush, my eyes have just been jaundiced by love and disappointment.

post #63 of 7710

I think it's important for everyone to focus their anger here. This case has nothing to do with the "Castle Doctrine" or gun laws in general. This is a case of a lowlife high on power and delusions of being a hero. Who suspected, stalked and killed a kid because he was black. Added to that a local police department that lied and is trying to covered up the incident because he is one of "their own"

 

 

Obviously the Castle Doctrine will come in to play, just the same as any other excuse for any other case; temporary insanity, parents didn't love me, violent video games, crime of passion, etc. I'm not trying to play the role of gun defender but I see this as typical racism and institutionalized corruption. Whether it was a gun, knife, rope or just harassment and false imprisonment, this shit is happening DAILY in this country.

 

 

post #64 of 7710

I've lived in the deep South for 11 years now.  I feel I've done enough time here to warrant making a joke about the need set it adrift into the ocean blue.

 

And besides, it should be obvious I wasn't being serious about states which need to be eliminated.  The map didn't even highlight Oklahoma or Kansas.

post #65 of 7710

I wasn't singling anybody out, it's just a pet peeve of mine. When these things happen in New York or Chicago or L.A. it's seldom attributed to the regional residents. I'm just a little thin-skinned is all.

post #66 of 7710
Thread Starter 
Don't forget that this "stand your ground" law, heavily lobbied for by the NRA, has taken hold in several states following its passage in Florida. This is basically license to murder because the other witness is dead.
post #67 of 7710

And the Castle Doctrine concerns being in one's home or car.  The Stand Your Ground law covers any situation in which a person feels they need to defend themselves.  Like chasing a teenage with a gun, apparently.

post #68 of 7710

You ought to get down on your knees and ask God's forgiveness for what you said about blacks.  I am aware that is how some peoples feel about us, but not all blacks are that way.  We do not teach our children to hate white peoples as some of them teach their chirldren to hate blacks.  But I am a child of God and we have to be mindful of what we say and the way we carry ourselves.  That young boy did not desever to be shot and killed the way that it was done and the person that did it has a record of hate crimes and violence. You need to ask God for forgiveness for what you said.

post #69 of 7710

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post

And the Castle Doctrine concerns being in one's home or car.  The Stand Your Ground law covers any situation in which a person feels they need to defend themselves.  Like chasing a teenage with a gun, apparently.



 No. The Castle Doctrine is the name given to a group of laws relating to self defense and the use of force. Stand Your Ground is a provision within. Florida is one of the few states to adopt the entire Doctrine. 

 

The main statutes are the Castle Law, Immunity from Civil Lawsuit, and the "No Duty to Retreat" or "Stand your Ground" laws.

post #70 of 7710
Quote:
Originally Posted by peewee64 View Post

You ought to get down on your knees and ask God's forgiveness for what you said about blacks.  I am aware that is how some peoples feel about us, but not all blacks are that way.  We do not teach our children to hate white peoples as some of them teach their chirldren to hate blacks.  But I am a child of God and we have to be mindful of what we say and the way we carry ourselves.  That young boy did not desever to be shot and killed the way that it was done and the person that did it has a record of hate crimes and violence. You need to ask God for forgiveness for what you said.



Ehhh?

post #71 of 7710
Quote:
Originally Posted by thewarfreak View Post

Ehhh?


robotroll spam ?

 

post #72 of 7710

 Probably. We'll keep an eye out.

post #73 of 7710
Thread Starter 

I'm shocked SHOCKED to see that that ALEC is behind this law:

 

Quote:

ALEC Has Pushed The NRA's "Stand Your Ground" Law Across The Nation

March 21, 2012 11:41 am ET by Matt Gertz

The legislation apparently preventing the successful prosecution of Trayvon Martin's killer was reportedly adopted by the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC) as model legislation that the shadowy group has spent years promoting across the country with the help of their allies in the National Rifle Association.

 

Formed in 1973 by conservative activists including Paul Weyrich and state legislators like then-Illinois State Rep. Henry Hyde, ALEC has earned infamy throughout the progressive movement for its ability to promote model legislation favorable to its corporate funders through statehouses across the country.

 

Legal experts have noted that Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law may prevent George Zimmerman from ever being successfully prosecuted for the killing of Trayvon Martin. Zimmerman has claimed that he acted in self-defense, and court precedent indicates that the State has the heavy burden of disproving this in order to win a conviction.

 

Florida's statute on the use of force in self-defense is virtually identical to Section 1 of ALEC's Castle Doctrine Act model legislation as posted on the Center for Media and Democracy (CMD). According to CMD, the model bill was adopted by ALEC's Civil Justice Task in August 2005 -- just a few short months after it passed the Florida legislature -- and approved by its board of directors the following month.

 

Since the 2005 passage of Florida's law, similar statutes have been passed in 16 other states.

The rest here.

 

post #74 of 7710

I think I've said it before;  ALEC is one of the more nefarious organizations out there right now.

If the GOP can't control the federal government, they are going to do their damnedest to try and control the state legislatures in an attempt to "drown government in a bathtub"

 

http://alecexposed.org/wiki/ALEC_Exposed

post #75 of 7710

I'm not as informed on any of this as much as some of you, so let me ask: How could a "Stand your ground" law apply to some sick fuck who clearly tracked this kid down in order to confront him?  The kid was never even on his property!  I feel as if I'm not through the looking glass, but being bludgeoned by it.

post #76 of 7710

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bailey View Post

I'm not as informed on any of this as much as some of you, so let me ask: How could a "Stand your ground" law apply to some sick fuck who clearly tracked this kid down in order to confront him?  The kid was never even on his property!  I feel as if I'm not through the looking glass, but being bludgeoned by it.


 

Because that's the way the law has been applied.  If a shooter makes the claim that he felt threatened, he can get off.  The police are complicit by just taking Zimmerman at his word, not administering a drug test, trying to change witness testimony, etc.

 

I'm concerned the case is already to tampered with to investigate properly.

post #77 of 7710

Yeah with "Stand Your Ground," the defendant doesn't have to prove it was self-defense, the state has to prove it wasn't.  Which is usually nigh impossible.  Sure, there's a lot of circumstantial evidence pointing to this being anything but self-defense, but how the hell do you prove a guy wasn't sufficiently fearful for his life?  It's completely fucked up, and has led to lots of police departments just throwing up their hands and closing cases as soon as someone pleads self-defense.

 

Honestly, as much as Zimmerman deserves to do time, I think a lot of this effort would be better spent in getting that law changed.

post #78 of 7710

I thought I covered all possible idiotic arguments. Apparently I haven't. 

 

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/tawana-brawley-2-0-al-sharpton-sides-with-aggressor-in-self-defense-case/

 

Guys, WE HAVE TO KNOW WHY MARTIN WAS SUSPENDED FOR 10 DAYS. 

post #79 of 7710

Oh, he was suspended from school, well, that deserves GETTING SHOT AND KILLED.

post #80 of 7710

Possible reasons for a 10 day suspension at my school:

 

fighting

repeated cellphone violations

over the counter medication

repeated dress code violations

inappropriate physical contact (babies making babies)

 

Only one of those makes some a danger to others. Drugs and weapons are a quick trip to the alternative education facility or expulsion.

 

Maybe Martin was a lothario, making the sweet love to everyone and got suspended. Lord knows I wanted to try that when I was in school.

 

post #81 of 7710

It doesn't matter if he did get suspended for fighting.  He was killed because some guy on a power trip thought himself a cop and decided walking while black was a crime.

 

I mean, if Zimmerman had done what 911 instructed him to do -- stay in his car and let the police handle it -- the situation would have been handled and Martin would still be alive.

 

There's more than a little "Oh, well the kid was a troublemaker, he'd have gotten it eventually" in this rush to look at the reasons behind his suspension that's pretty disturbing.

post #82 of 7710

Speaking of cell phones, where is the victim's? He was using up to the point he was killed. Yet the police never found it, otherwise they could have identified him by it. Did the vigilante take it, or did the cops?

post #83 of 7710

Hey man, we don't know all the facts in this case. Ya know, besides all the numerous facts in this case that we know. 

 

I'm really, really trying to understand how ANYONE can take Zimmerman's side in this. All I see are people trying desperately to try and paint the BOY WHO WAS SHOT AND KILLED as some kind of delinquent. Because apparently in order for your murderer to get arrested in this country you yourself must have a squeaky clean record. 

post #84 of 7710
Thread Starter 

Fox's spin is evidently that radical communist muslim black panther hippies are cooking up this controversy to attack the NRA!  Hide yer guns!

post #85 of 7710

Ah, so FOX can't even spin the actual murder into anything positive for them, so instead they're focusing on the RESPONSE to this murder as the REAL travesty. Got it. Also, expect to hear about every single case involving a black guy killing a white guy ever as proof that Zimmerman should walk free. 

 

post #86 of 7710
Jeb Bush is lucky he's not running for President after this. Totally would kill his campaign and this sorry tragedy should show that they have to overturn this law. Also a question has to be raised whether Bush's endorsement because of this will hurt Romney.
post #87 of 7710
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post

Oh, he was suspended from school, well, that deserves GETTING SHOT AND KILLED.

 

 

must have been one of those violent thug students that I've heard so much about from eye opening documentaries such as The Principal, The Substitute, and Classes 1984 through 1999.

post #88 of 7710
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Happenin View Post

If for whatever reason, Zimmerman is acquitted (this shit is going to trial, is going to be huge and there will be movies of the week for years), what city burns down? I am genuinely curious. This feels like it could go the way of a Rodney King if it goes south.



Which is why the police force is praying that this thing goes away ASAP.  

post #89 of 7710
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post

It doesn't matter if he did get suspended for fighting.  He was killed because some guy on a power trip thought himself a cop and decided walking while black was a crime.

 

I mean, if Zimmerman had done what 911 instructed him to do -- stay in his car and let the police handle it -- the situation would have been handled and Martin would still be alive.

 

There's more than a little "Oh, well the kid was a troublemaker, he'd have gotten it eventually" in this rush to look at the reasons behind his suspension that's pretty disturbing.



Oh, absolutely. I wasn't justifying any of it. Just that getting suspended from school doesn't really mean you are a violent offender roaming the streets.

post #90 of 7710

i just saw breaking news on HLN that the police commissioner in Sanford just gave a vote of NO CONFIDENCE in the police chief's leadership.

post #91 of 7710

...and now the chief is stepping down temporarily in light of the overwhelming ruckus about this. 

 

So my question is, now that the police bungled the immediate investigation, can a conviction be secured? No physical evidence secured, no drug screening on the part of the shooter, and no cell phone of the victim. Can the old screed dead men don't tell tales be true if we have the person who was on the phone with the victim can testify? Or is that heresay? It should be like a deathbed confession.

post #92 of 7710

Sanford Police Chief temporarily steps aside, still manages to sound like he has no idea what the problem is:

 

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2012/03/fla-city-manager-to-discuss-trayvon-martin-case/1

 

So where's Zimmerman now?  I'll bet no one was keeping tabs on him.

post #93 of 7710

 

 

I think of everything I've read about this case, the best response I've read came from someone in the comment section of the New York Times.

 

 

Quote:

One of the most radical ideas of our framers was the separation of powers. This meant, at a minimum, no person could be the judge of his own case. In the criminal justice system the functions of justice are placed into the hands of different organizations and people. However, the Florida law subverts this separation because it permits a licensed gun owner to become: the arresting officer, the investigating officer, the defense attorney, the prosecutor, the judge, the jury, the jailer, and in this case, the executioner. Obviously, the check on the abuse of powerof which the framers were deeply concerned is eliminated by the Florida law. In effect, that law as written asserts that there is no abuse of power if an armed citizen acts under what he believes is a threat requiring a resort to force. Thus we have citizens who have no training in recognizing threats much less defusing them have been empowered by a legislature to hold the power of life or death in their hands. The Supreme Court needs to rexamine the 2d amendment cases and strike a balance that protects those citizens who are threatened by legal gun owners, whose capacity to act reasonably is subject only to their will power and emotions which may or may not be under control.

 

 

 

It is the fault of conservative organizations like the NRA that push this kind of extremely broad legislation that leads to situations like this and the cost taxpayer cost of District Attorneys who now have to sort through cases like that are tedious as fuck .  Race, here, is the underlying factor.

 

Heres a link to the NY times article: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/21/us/justice-department-opens-inquiry-in-killing-of-trayvon-martin.html?_r=1&smid=FB-nytimes&WT.mc_id=US-E-FB-SM-LIN-AFL-032112-NYT-NA&WT.mc_ev=click

post #94 of 7710
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Vivisector View Post

...and now the chief is stepping down temporarily in light of the overwhelming ruckus about this. 

 

So my question is, now that the police bungled the immediate investigation, can a conviction be secured? No physical evidence secured, no drug screening on the part of the shooter, and no cell phone of the victim. Can the old screed dead men don't tell tales be true if we have the person who was on the phone with the victim can testify? Or is that heresay? It should be like a deathbed confession.


Pretty much as you say; there is a whole swath of hearsay that is admissible when the speaker is unavailable and this is about as close as you can get to a textbook example of a "dying declaration".

 

The fucked up thing about this is that securing a conviction (which, even with the absurdly broad standard set by the state courts, seems likely given the recordings and avalanche of other evidence) may be the worst possible outcome for opponents of Stand Your Ground.  If this guy can get off despite recording himself flat out saying that the victim wasn't doing anything and he was going to confront him anyway over the protest of emergency officials, then no one could possibly defend the law as anything but legalized murder.  Whereas if he gets life in prison, the NRA or whoever can point to it and say "See?  You can't use SYG to weasel out of a straight murder!  The system works!" and maybe enough time has passed that the energy to get it overturned has dissipated.

 

Hell, if I'm the NRA or whatever and I'm not above using nefarious means to protect the law I designed from this shitstorm, I'm putting my resources to bear trying to convince Zimmerman to plead guilty and avoid a drawn-out public examination of the standard.

post #95 of 7710
Quote:

Originally Posted by hank_chinaski View Post

Quote:

 

However, the Florida law subverts this separation because it permits a licensed gun owner to become: the arresting officer, the investigating officer, the defense attorney, the prosecutor, the judge, the jury, the jailer, and in this case, the executioner.

 

So in Florida:

cletus_the_slack_jawed_yokel_right.png has the legal right to gun up & play dreddss.jpg.

 

ugh...

 

idiot-21.jpg

Florida. America's skateboarding teen mom.

post #96 of 7710

I just heard about this case.  Awful, sickening, but not surprising really.  Zimmerman is a dead man if he doesn't go to jail.  Somebody is going to take him out.

post #97 of 7710
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambler View Post

Zimmerman is a dead man if he doesn't go to jail.  Somebody is going to take him out.



Which would be just as awful, and wouldn't solve a damn thing.

post #98 of 7710

Well, I don't know about just as awful.  But it wouldn't be good.

post #99 of 7710

In 2007 the son of a Sanford police officer sucker punched and beat a homeless man outside a bar.  Even when the cops saw the video evidence, they did not arrest him.  The arrest only came after news outlets started airing the video.  The officer in charge of the case was also the officer in charge of the Trayvon Martin case.

 

Video evidence.

 

Seems Sanford has a history of sitting on blatant offenses.

post #100 of 7710

Obama weighed in on the case this morning. Thoughtfully so, I gotta say:

 

Obama: 'If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon'

@Politico.com

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