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The Racism & Social Injustice Catch-All - Page 146

post #7251 of 7710

I liked him only because I felt sorry for him getting his arse kicked by Bruce in the way that it did, leaning over gently and neatly into the headlock that killed him.

post #7252 of 7710
I suppose there's no way he didn't vote for Trump..
post #7253 of 7710

The thing about coming armed to the teeth, doing military-style manuvers and commands like you're auditioning for the world's worst 300 remake, and storing weapons around town is that it gives states ground to reject permits or break up gatherings/groups because it no longer becomes a first amendment issue in that case. There was a fascinating article on Slate about these things, chiefly that this the first time we're seeing Second Amendement rights push up against and even win out over First Amendement ones, and states aren't sure how to respond that way.

 

me, I say lock 'em up. 

post #7254 of 7710

These guys always talk big, but when faced with actual armed resistance, they'd fold like the paper tiger they are.

post #7255 of 7710
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Singer View Post
 

These guys always talk big, but when faced with actual armed resistance, they'd fold like the paper tiger they are.


They seem to have this fantasy that they'll be welcomed by the (white) populace with a parade and the local police will join them in their glorious rebellion when they roll into town armed and wearing swastikas, that they will simply assume their rightful place as our rulers.  Straight up manifest destiny style bullshit.

post #7256 of 7710
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Singer View Post
 

These guys always talk big, but when faced with actual armed resistance, they'd fold like the paper tiger they are.

 

Disagree. There are many examples of these guys pushing back against any kind of government incursion when they feel threatened. The Bundy standoff wasn't too long ago, and Ruby Ridge, Waco, and others are in living memory. It's to the credit of the people in charge that they're able to diffuse these situations without using violence. 

post #7257 of 7710
Quote:
Originally Posted by superlaser View Post
 


They seem to have this fantasy that they'll be welcomed by the (white) populace with a parade and the local police will join them in their glorious rebellion when they roll into town armed and wearing swastikas, that they will simply assume their rightful place as our rulers.  Straight up manifest destiny style bullshit.

Don't forget the women lining up to give them blow jobs.

post #7258 of 7710
Quote:
Originally Posted by superlaser View Post
 


They seem to have this fantasy that they'll be welcomed by the (white) populace with a parade and the local police will join them in their glorious rebellion when they roll into town armed and wearing swastikas, that they will simply assume their rightful place as our rulers.  Straight up manifest destiny style bullshit.

 

They're the less idealistic version of the students from Les Miserables, certain the people will rise to join them once the revolution starts, only to be wiped out over the course of a musical number.

post #7259 of 7710

I think it's more likely they're going to try and agitate the counter protestors into enough violence that when they unload into them, it'll be more 'well, both sides were as bad as each other' nonsense. These rallies are a powder keg waiting to go off.

post #7260 of 7710
Quote:
Originally Posted by flint View Post
 

I think it's more likely they're going to try and agitate the counter protestors into enough violence that when they unload into them, it'll be more 'well, both sides were as bad as each other' nonsense. These rallies are a powder keg waiting to go off.

 

Note to feed that fire but...

 

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-charlottesville-witnesses-20170815-story.html

 

Thing is, the Alt Right have a dead woman to account for. Have the "Alt Left" anything similar?

 

Also have to say it: there is some serious Homoeroticism going on amongst some of the Alt Right guys quoted. 

post #7261 of 7710
Quote:
Originally Posted by flint View Post
 

I think it's more likely they're going to try and agitate the counter protestors into enough violence that when they unload into them, it'll be more 'well, both sides were as bad as each other' nonsense. These rallies are a powder keg waiting to go off.

 

Oh certainly. I would never underestimate their craven scheming or underhandedness (the people who yell "FALSE FLAG!" the loudest are the ones most likely to do it), I just think that if they ever actually get shot at they'll shit their pants and run. These aren't disaffected Ruby Ridge isolationists, these are guys in khaki and ball caps carrying picnic torches.

post #7262 of 7710

I am really, really tired of Cylon's "both sides" bullshit. 

post #7263 of 7710
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boone Daniels View Post
 

I am really, really tired of Cylon's "both sides" bullshit. 

 

Well fuck off then. You don't want to have a discussion, you just want an echo chamber. Facebook was made for you. 

 

Also, again, making (or posting) observations do not equate to stating an opinion. 

post #7264 of 7710

We can all be tedious at times. Let's play nice, folks.

post #7265 of 7710
There's no real "alt left." You can't get lefties to agree on anything

If we're taking about Antifa or the Black Block, those guys are plain old anarchists.
post #7266 of 7710
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boone Daniels View Post
 

I am really, really tired of Cylon's "both sides" bullshit. 

 

Who's to say that the violence didn't start with AntiFa?  I honestly don't give a fuck though.  If punching Nazis is wrong, I don't want to be right.

post #7267 of 7710
Quote:
Originally Posted by BorisTheCheese View Post
 

 

Who's to say that the violence didn't start with AntiFa?  I honestly don't give a fuck though.  If punching Nazis is wrong, I don't want to be right.

 

Like I stated in my post, the Alt Right have an innocent dead woman's blood on their hands. Show me a case where the AntiFa's or other Left groups have that, and then we can talk about "many sides". Oh no we can't because the Alt Rights are organized and public about wanting to start shit. 

post #7268 of 7710
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boone Daniels View Post
 

I am really, really tired of Cylon's "both sides" bullshit. 

 

Yeah, I didn't get that from Cylon's post at ALL. 

post #7269 of 7710
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post

Guys like that are afraid of whites becoming the minority because they know how they've treated minorities and don't want it applied to them.

Meanwhile, there are disturbing indications that Charlottesville was a dry run for something much bigger:




And Virginia governor Terry McAuliffe stated that white nationalist supporters had hidden caches of weapons around Charlottesville:


The fear is that this was a rehearsal for a full takeover of a larger town or city somewhere down the road.  And that Immortan Don's tacit support for them will convince them they need not feer any government reprisals.

Man, Ubisoft really read the tea leaves when they developed the new FarCry, didn't they?
post #7270 of 7710
Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post

 

Meanwhile, there are disturbing indications that Charlottesville was a dry run for something much bigger:

 

 

 

Was I the only one who paused before the highlighted area?

post #7271 of 7710
I did too. But he's speaking strictly about his organization.
post #7272 of 7710

National Front is already in use, I'm starting to think these guys are bozos.

post #7273 of 7710
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightning Slim View Post

I did too. But he's speaking strictly about his organization.

 

I got that but his org is also touted as an umbrella org so anyone there under the auspices of white nationalism would be their responsibility.  Sounds like some RICO charges to me.

post #7274 of 7710
We can hope!
post #7275 of 7710
post #7276 of 7710
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boone Daniels View Post

There was a good thread I saw going around on Twitter that basically boiled down to this:

It's not doxxing people who were at the rally. It's the modern equivalent of tearing off their hoods. They rely on their anoymous nature - whether behind a handle or in a crowd - in order to cause fear and terror. 

 
Doxxing, more often than not, is itself an act of violence, designed to cause fear and terror, and to silence. 

Like anything, these arguments are subject to the "slippery slope" defense. 

Fuck the slippery slope. 

No. This is hackneyed vigilantism.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/14/us/charlottesville-doxxing.html
post #7277 of 7710

This sure brought a smile to my face today. (Apologies if someone has posted this before)

http://www.avclub.com/article/read-potential-jurors-show-no-mercy-pharma-bro-mar-259548

post #7278 of 7710
There has to be a middle ground between letting Twitter fight your battles and relying on cops who are so far to the right of the establishment they aren't even public servants anymore.
post #7279 of 7710
Quote:
Originally Posted by felix View Post
 

This sure brought a smile to my face today. (Apologies if someone has posted this before)

http://www.avclub.com/article/read-potential-jurors-show-no-mercy-pharma-bro-mar-259548

 

Quote:

Juror No. 59: Your Honor, totally he is guilty and in no way can I let him slide out of anything because —

The Court: Okay. Is that your attitude toward anyone charged with a crime who has not been proven guilty?

Juror No. 59: It’s my attitude toward his entire demeanor, what he has done to people.

The Court: All right. We are going to excuse you, sir.

Juror No. 59: And he disrespected the Wu-Tang Clan.

post #7280 of 7710

Ahhhh ... voir dire. Such memories.   And here I thought I wasn't going to drink tonight. 

post #7281 of 7710
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anakin's Dad View Post


No. This is hackneyed vigilantism.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/14/us/charlottesville-doxxing.html

 

I've read this article, and one of the things it points out is that there are ways for reporters to find these people through phone calls and triple confirmations. That, to me, is reportage and exposure, rather than hackneyed vigilantism. 

 

Or should we just let them be Nazis on the weekend? 

post #7282 of 7710

The families of the figures on these statues - chiefly Lee and Jackson - have gotten involved. Lee's descendants made a statement which was laugahable, and made me wonder why these families were getting involved - it seemed like something bound to cause more problems. But I was very impressed by the honest reckoning with their family history that the descendants of Stonewall Jackson made: 

 

Quote:
 We are native Richmonders and also the great, great grandsons of Stonewall Jackson. As two of the closest living relatives to Stonewall, we are writing today to ask for the removal of his statue, as well as the removal of all Confederate statues from Monument Avenue. They are overt symbols of racism and white supremacy, and the time is long overdue for them to depart from public display. Overnight, Baltimore has seen fit to take this action. Richmond should, too....
 
....We are writing to say that we understand justice very differently from our grandfather’s grandfather, and we wish to make it clear his statue does not represent us.

Through our upbringing and education, we have learned much about Stonewall Jackson. We have learned about his reluctance to fight and his teaching of Sunday School to enslaved peoples in Lexington, Virginia, a potentially criminal activity at the time. We have learned how thoughtful and loving he was toward his family. But we cannot ignore his decision to own slaves, his decision to go to war for the Confederacy, and, ultimately, the fact that he was a white man fighting on the side of white supremacy.

While we are not ashamed of our great great grandfather, we are ashamed to benefit from white supremacy while our black family and friends suffer. We are ashamed of the monument.

In fact, instead of lauding Jackson’s violence, we choose to celebrate Stonewall’s sister—our great, great, grand-aunt—Laura Jackson Arnold. As an adult Laura became a staunch Unionist and abolitionist. Though she and Stonewall were incredibly close through childhood, she never spoke to Stonewall after his decision to support the Confederacy. We choose to stand on the right side of history with Laura Jackson Arnold....

....While we do not purport to speak for all of Stonewall’s kin, our sense of justice leads us to believe that removing the Stonewall statue and other monuments should be part of a larger project of actively mending the racial disparities that hundreds of years of white supremacy have wrought. We hope other descendants of Confederate generals will stand with us.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2017/08/stonewall_jackson_s_grandsons_the_monuments_must_go.html

post #7283 of 7710
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boone Daniels View Post
 

 

I've read this article, and one of the things it points out is that there are ways for reporters to find these people through phone calls and triple confirmations. That, to me, is reportage and exposure, rather than hackneyed vigilantism. 

 

Or should we just let them be Nazis on the weekend? 


I'm saying I understand the desire to do this, but I have some serious reservations about empowering the twitter mob. You weren't cheering on a reporter with journalistic integrity who is going to triple check their sources before unleashing hell on someone. What's your acceptable ratio of outed Nazis to terrorized random citizens? Cause mine is really low.

 

Edit: Sorry if this is coming off aggressive, I don't mean it to be.

post #7284 of 7710
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anakin's Dad View Post
 


I'm saying I understand the desire to do this, but I have some serious reservations about empowering the twitter mob. You weren't cheering on a reporter with journalistic integrity who is going to triple check their sources before unleashing hell on someone. What's your acceptable ratio of outed Nazis to terrorized random citizens? Cause mine is really low.

 

My original post cited an argument on Twitter (a platform) by someone who was not part of that "Twitter mob." That post was an explanation of the differences between doing the journalistic due dilligence required to uncover someone's identity as a weekend Nazi vs. the technique of doxxing. Citing someone on Twitter is not an endorsement of the Twitter mob. In the other thread, I said this a couple days ago:
 

Quote:
 We saw this happen with the aftermath of the Boston bombing and Sunil Tripath. Shaun King, who I like a great deal, has started a newsletter, and today's is "let's catch these violent men together." I'm generally all for bigots getting got, but I definitely think someone needs to try and contact these people first before posting their information. 

 

And since we're in the bizarro world where the obvious needs to be stated, I am 100 percent unequivocally against social media being used to incorrectly and rapidly identify people who are not Nazis as Nazis. But fuck Nazis.

post #7285 of 7710

Good article by Ari Berman, who's written a lot about voting rights, based in part on a thread he started (on Twitter!): 
 

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/08/texas-republicans-intentionally-discriminated-against-minority-voters-court-rules/

 

Here's that thread. Not part of the Twitter mob: 

https://twitter.com/AriBerman/status/896739107300421633

post #7286 of 7710

De Blasio make sit clear NYC will review and remove controversial memorials and statues

 

Im not an american and agree with most of this, but i think removing the statue of Teddy Roosevelt in fronto of the NH Museum is a bit too far.

Remove the racist and retrograde 19th century elements (the black man and native american), but Roosevelt, while not exactly a saint, is nowehere near confederate, racist and nazi levels.

Hell, the guy had the sense and concience to split from the republicans and was a thorn on them all his life due to his more progressive and liberal views.

But removing the statue of an icon like TR? The first president to invite and host an african american to the white house ? (and who got grilled by democrats of the tiem for doing so?).

There's going to far.

post #7287 of 7710

Well, it's worth noting that that list from Splinter, which leans very left and progressive, isn't the list of monuments being considered by Bill de Blasio. It's just a list of names that they came up with on Twitter. And while I personally think Columbus was gross and shouldn't be celebrated, I understand that others might not feel the same way. We've had these arguments for a while in various threads - for example, to Native Americans, folks like Washington and Grant are as reviled as the Confederates for their anti-Indian policies and massacres. 

 

I spent a portion of this morning reading the report from Yale's Committee on Renaming that came out last year in regards to Calhoun College. It's actually really interesting, and sets up the best framework I've heard so far, called "principal legacies": 
 

Quote:
 We ask about a namesake’s principal legacies because human lives, as Walt Whitman wrote, are large; they contain multitudes. Whitman, as it happens, contained virtues and vices himself. He excoriated the Lincoln administration for insisting on equal treatment for black soldiers held as prisoners of war in the South. But his principal legacies are as a path-breaking poet and writer. Frederick Douglass contrasted African Americans with Indians, who he said were easily “contented” with small things such as blankets, and who would “die out” in any event. But his principal legacies are as an abolitionist and an advocate for civil rights. Of course, interpretations of a namesake’s principal legcies are subject to change over time. They may vary in the eye of the beholder as well. 

 

The whole thing is worth reading in its entirety, but this is also a good defense of why we keep up statues of Washington and Jefferson - those men as slave owners should be central to their story - but their "principal legacy" wasn't as slaveholders. It was as Founding Fathers who left a lasting, positive mark on the country. You could apply this same line of thinking to TR, for the reasons ryoken has detailed above. 


Edited by Boone Daniels - 8/17/17 at 1:38pm
post #7288 of 7710
post #7289 of 7710

Ironically, if these Confederate Nazis (I don't like calling them 'White Supremacists' because they're really only about the 'supremacy' of a very specific subset of 'white' people and even their definition of 'white' is nonsensical) hadn't made the statue removal such a big deal, a full 90% of these pushes to remove Confederate statues wouldn't be happening.  If this really were truly about history, as in all of this shit was actually in the past, almost no one would give a shit about the odd street name, statue or plaque. 

post #7290 of 7710
Hey I don't mind these racist monsters, so it's all good! Gooooooo Redskins!
Edited by Munson - 8/17/17 at 2:11pm
post #7291 of 7710
Quote:
Originally Posted by superlaser View Post

(...because they're really only about the 'supremacy' of a very specific subset of 'white' people and even their definition of 'white' is nonsensical)...

Exactly what I've always thought, they should at the very least call themselves pink supremacists or maybe beige...

Joking aside, I never understood why these groups arbitrarily choose who's "white" and who isn't, like for some reason everybody else who isn't straight, has mostly european ancestry & was raised Christian can't also be "white" even if some of those people are so pale that they can't go outside in the summer without wearing long sleeves and a hat.
post #7292 of 7710
Can you really be white if your neck is red and your face is so purple from alcohol and blood pressure that it looks like a slapped ass?
post #7293 of 7710
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim K View Post


Exactly what I've always thought, they should at the very least call themselves pink supremacists or maybe beige...

Joking aside, I never understood why these groups arbitrarily choose who's "white" and who isn't, like for some reason everybody else who isn't straight, has mostly european ancestry & was raised Christian can't also be "white" even if some of those people are so pale that they can't go outside in the summer without wearing long sleeves and a hat.

It's especially bizarre because they still echo the classic Nazi rhetoric about 'racial purity' and heritage but their whole group is a mishmash of ethnicities that a Hitler-era Nazi would probably have been more than happy to cleanse.  It just goes to show that any pseudo-reasonable crap they spout about economics/racial purity etc is just a bullshit excuse to hide the fact that they are essentially scared to death of a fucking color. 

post #7294 of 7710
Isn't debating whiteness with Nazi's like asking why the eagles didn't just fly everyone to Mordor? I mean it's a made up story they just retcon racial purity as they see fit.

My Grandpa was German and was banished from his family for marrying a Ukrainian. If these people could actually get rid of flagrant darkies then it would be the Slavs and the Italians etc etc next.
post #7295 of 7710
Quote:
Originally Posted by Munson View Post

Isn't debating whiteness with Nazi's like asking why the eagles didn't just fly everyone to Mordor? I mean it's a made up story they just retcon racial purity as they see fit.

My Grandpa was German and was banished from his family for marrying a Ukrainian. If these people could actually get rid of flagrant darkies then it would be the Slavs and the Italians etc etc next.
Agreed. The whole point is that there's nothing to 'debate' them on because their 'beliefs' are nothing more than blatant scapegoating of the most convenient available 'other.' Whatever point you might make in a debate against them, they'll just move the goalpost to 'justify' staying the way they are. They aren't rational actors or a legitimate movement and shouldn't be treated as such.
post #7296 of 7710

Speaking of sports, three Tampa Bay teams have donated money to help remove a Confederate monument:

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/17/sports/tampa-confederate-monument-buccaneers-rays-lightning.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur

 

Quote:

The three major professional sports teams from the Tampa, Fla., area did not merely denounce a Confederate monument downtown — they have helped subsidized its removal.

 

In a joint statement, the Tampa Bay Rays, Lightning and Buccaneers said Thursday that they had donated an unspecified sum to take down a memorial in front of the old Hillsborough County courthouse, which depicts two Confederate soldiers on either side of an obelisk. The monument “does not reflect the values of our community,” the teams said.

 

The teams’ donation was part of a surge that came one day after county commissioners voted to give fund-raisers 30 days to raise $140,000 — or about half of the amount necessary to relocate the memorial to a cemetery in suburban Brandon. The commissioners voted about a month ago to move the memorial.

post #7297 of 7710

this is a big step to take......

 

 

ACLU Will No Longer Defend Hate Groups Protesting with Firearms

Executive director says violence and guns at Charlottesville rally spurred new stance

post #7298 of 7710
Quote:
Originally Posted by VTRan View Post
 

this is a big step to take......

 

 

ACLU Will No Longer Defend Hate Groups Protesting with Firearms

Executive director says violence and guns at Charlottesville rally spurred new stance

Completely fair. It's one thing to support ALL free speech, you should. When guns come into play it changes the game. 

post #7299 of 7710
I was trying to think of what other groups this would apply to. The Black Panthers still have armed demonstrations sometimes, right?
post #7300 of 7710

"It is true, of course, that in Germany before 1933, and in Italy before 1922, communists and Nazis or Fascists clashed more frequently with each other than with other parties. They competed for the support of the same type of mind and reserved for each other the hatred of the heretic. But their practice showed how closely they are related. To both, the real enemy, the man with whom they had nothing in common and whom they could not hope to convince, is the liberal of the old type." -Friedrich A Hayek, The Road To Serfdom

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