I wasn't sure if this should go here or the social media thread or the misogyny one and that's really the point. It's pretty tempting to draw a sort of fairly inclusive venn diagram over many modern trends like PUAs, MRAs, anti-feminists, the alt-right and white supremacists and pretty much anything cranky nerds seem to be into. You can get criticised for rolling them all together too much as well. That's with some justification in a way as they aren't all inclusive. But dammit they just seem so interrelated, and that may be because I for one keep running into very similar sorts of people who seem very into one or more of these things.
Well to confirm those suspicions comes this pretty amazing lot of reporting. Others around here are more aware of the Fight Club-y contortions of online movements of late. But as someone who was a bit out of touch this is pretty amazing stuff, taken right at the intersection of all those things. A point that arrives right at the Charlottesville protests.
As someone who generally wrestled with the elusive zeitgeist of this apparent young (white) dude-o-sphere, wondering whether it was more than that and how concrete that impression really was, well here it is. It's not an entirely nebulous social phenomenon at all, either. The connection is really quite concrete.
You really want to stick around for the black guy who who helped kick off 'no fap' and things of that ilk watching in horror and becoming woke as fuck as the movement he encouraged morphs into a crypto fascist 'men's club' and then starts to tilt over into regular fascist.
It still kinda blows my mind that the culture of men's rights and men's self discovery that existed in the early nineties, and which inspired Fight Club, is apparently just repeating itself and people seem generally unaware of this. So much of the culture is supposed to have changed and I keep bumping into people who say "we've got to do this because there's so much feminism now" and I have to say "kids, this is nothing". If anything feminists have become louder now because they feel that they grew complacent and lost ground.
But the pattern that asserts itself in my head is that as soon as women's movements start to become more prominent these defensive men's movements spring up almost organically. And I say that because there wasn't any twitter or reddit or youtube to spread this stuff in the old days, no brietbart and blogs galore collating the outrages of women for easy consumption, and yet there it was. And everyone seems to have forgotten quite how big a deal it was. Maybe my memory is faulty.
At any rate, I can't prove it and it's just an impression but it is as if it's enough for women to take nothing from them but assert their equality quite loudly and then a certain portion of men start to lose their sense of self and psychologically crumble. They don't even have to be jock-y 'men's men' to begin with (which is perhaps most alarming of all). That such an intellectual problem could apparently undermine a lot of men's sense of, dare I say it, identity is amazing, when in a lot of cases they weren't living some 'traditional' life by Western or any other standards, especially in 1993. The implications of that are disturbing to say the least.
It's doubly interesting to think that so many of these guys now spend a great deal of time on individualist argument, railing in fury at the unscientific mind enslaving absurdity of the social theories that often drive progressive politics - when at the same time they themselves seem a pretty good sign to me that there's something going on there.
This is off thread topic, but makes more sense if and when you listen to the show.
Edited by Muzman - 10/10/17 at 1:39pm