Game Of Thrones Season 2: Throne Harder SPOILER FREE - Page 31

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Originally Posted by Schwartz 

The firsthand accounts all make the Mad King sound legitimately insane.  We know that one person's mental illness doesn't prove anything about their entire extended family, and even the people of Westeros say the gods flip a coin when one is born.

If you have the Blu Ray, The Complete Guide to Westeros feature fills a lot of these blanks and questions; its specially nice because the subject of Robert's rebellion is narrated by Tiwyn Lannister, Robert and Vyseris, so they have a different view of the events.

However, the Mad King was originally paranoid and obssessed with dragons and fire, wne went mad with age; Tywin Lannister managed to make the kingdom prosper and reign in the Mad King while he was Hand, but once he quit and isolated himself after the King grew paranoid and envious of his success, the king went really, really of the rails; his son, Rhaegar (who abducted Lyanna Stark and triggered the rebellion) was more to blame, since his actions truly unleashed his father's madness and cruelty.

But yeah, a viewing of the Guide to westeros fills in most of the questions you'll have about the backstory in a clever and entertaining way; plus, who doesnt enjoy more Charles Dance narrating things?

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Originally Posted by BoatMan 

 

No problem. Most I got from the show, but it comes sporadically and in tiny snippets. You need to pay attention to the little things. I also read the viewer's guide on HBO.com. This is the ONLY reading that I'll do online as I'm terrified that I'll inadvertently spoil something for myself. Side note, Youtube is DANGEROUS. The rest I just filled in because it makes sense. I love world building and tend to obsess about details.

 

One thing though, I find that definitions of the passage of time, populations and other "number based" things tend to be inconsistent in this world. For example, the way the length of seasons are exaggerated and how some characters claim to have lived through quite a few winters just doesn't seem to jive. And also seeing the armies that are being fielded, along with quoted naval sizes, I don't see how Robert was ever concerned about the Dothraki. Tens of thousands don't seem like much against the hundreds of thousands that he could have called in if he tapped the bulk of the kingdom. Point being, don't sweat that stuff too much and just go with it.

Even forgetting spoilers for the moment, YouTube comments in general are bad for your health. They're consistently the least informed and most obnoxious crowd on the internet.  I really appreciate you straightening me out on this history though. Someone's got to obsess over the details, and then fill in the rest of us who are less careful!

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Originally Posted by Hyperspace 

Dany's dragon eggs might very well have been thousands of years old. (or more) Just because some dragons flew around 300 years ago does not mean that all eggs had to be that 'fresh'.

 

BTW, the Blu-ray of season 1 is a treasure-trove of non-spoiler world history told through short animated films.

If you want to see some of them, this YouTube playlist has 16 of them: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHPlFXqQEwc&feature=BFa&list=PL5EB9C15A3BB8B65E (again, only background info)

Ah that YouTube playlist is ace. I love it. I watched a handful last night and I'll watch some more when I get home today. Thanks so much for those, seriously.

 

I had not considered that her eggs were not from the final dragons, so good point there.

 

By the way, do you think some of that art we see for the battle against the Mad King was concept art or story boards for a sequence they originally wanted in the pilot? It would have been an epic way to open the series, reminiscent of Fellowship of the Ring's 7 minute prologue.

 

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Originally Posted by ryoken 

If you have the Blu Ray, The Complete Guide to Westeros feature fills a lot of these blanks and questions; its specially nice because the subject of Robert's rebellion is narrated by Tiwyn Lannister, Robert and Vyseris, so they have a different view of the events.

However, the Mad King was originally paranoid and obssessed with dragons and fire, wne went mad with age; Tywin Lannister managed to make the kingdom prosper and reign in the Mad King while he was Hand, but once he quit and isolated himself after the King grew paranoid and envious of his success, the king went really, really of the rails; his son, Rhaegar (who abducted Lyanna Stark and triggered the rebellion) was more to blame, since his actions truly unleashed his father's madness and cruelty.

But yeah, a viewing of the Guide to westeros fills in most of the questions you'll have about the backstory in a clever and entertaining way; plus, who doesnt enjoy more Charles Dance narrating things?

That content sounds fantastic. I'm now seriously considering picking up the set. I held off on purchasing season one because the week before it came out I signed up for HBO and watched the entire first season on HBO Go. Also I was disappointed in the packaging I'd seen online. It seemed really cheap compared to past efforts from HBO. Generation Kill, Deadwood, Carnivale, Sopranos, Rome, The Pacific, all had creative packaging that made them stand out as event programming compared to the rest of the TV on DVD landscape. Game of Thrones has an untextured normal style cardboard case, surprisingly cheap looking given the importance of the show to the network. I'd have loved if they went with something like the Extended Editions for LOTR, where they made the individual film cases look like old worn books. I've got the Extended Editions up on my bookshelf to this very day, and you'd not know at a glance that they were not actually leather bound print editions.

Yeah one of the few problems I had in general with the show is the Dothraki, and how they look like "Stargate extras of the week" as opposed to the mean Mongol/Sarmatian/Magyar/Turk/Steppe badasses that everybody should properly be afraid of. I don't even think they've got any shots of them handling bows, which would be the main reason Robert's intimidated of them.

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Originally Posted by LaurenOrtega 

 

 

Yeah one of the few problems I had in general with the show is the Dothraki, and how they look like "Stargate extras of the week" as opposed to the mean Mongol/Sarmatian/Magyar/Turk/Steppe badasses that everybody should properly be afraid of.

That was one of my big problems with season one. It didn't feel like there was an entire Dothraki civilization, just a few guys in costumes on limited sets. Khal Drogo brought it, but the rest of 'em were weak sauce.

That was one of my big problems with season one. It didn't feel like there was an entire Dothraki civilization, just a few guys in costumes on limited sets. Khal Drogo brought it, but the rest of 'em were weak sauce.

Well, I'm not going to be the one to defend the Dothraki side of the show as its strongest, but I also don't think that there has been screentime (or budget for that matter) that would've been better spent    digging deeper into that world.  Their function in the first season was to be distant, largely hypothetical threat, and that threat now seems further than ever from actually materializing.  Had their side of the show been built up as an equal counterpart to the Westeros side of the equation, then an entire half of the show would come off as a big, slow anti-climax compared to the other at this point.

Oh no, I agree completely with the amount of screen time they get. I just always felt that in comparison to everything else on the show they had the idiot-stick tossed to them design-wise.

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Originally Posted by Schwartz 

Well, I'm not going to be the one to defend the Dothraki side of the show as its strongest, but I also don't think that there has been screentime (or budget for that matter) that would've been better spent    digging deeper into that world.  Their function in the first season was to be distant, largely hypothetical threat, and that threat now seems further than ever from actually materializing.  Had their side of the show been built up as an equal counterpart to the Westeros side of the equation, then an entire half of the show would come off as a big, slow anti-climax compared to the other at this point.

I don't actually disagree, in an ideal world though I would have liked every corner of the Game of Thrones universe to feel as complete and fleshed out as possible. I think we get one big Dothraki CGI shot in the opening wedding episode, and everything after that is on a Stargate scale, as Lauren mentioned. All that being what it is though, I've since recalibrated my expectations and it helped enormously with my enjoyment. I'm no longer expecting it to match the production values of something like Rome, and instead I'm examining it against Battlestar Galactica, another show that had to depict a vast world on a fairly limited budget.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hyperspace 

Dany's dragon eggs might very well have been thousands of years old. (or more) Just because some dragons flew around 300 years ago does not mean that all eggs had to be that 'fresh'.

 

BTW, the Blu-ray of season 1 is a treasure-trove of non-spoiler world history told through short animated films.

If you want to see some of them, this YouTube playlist has 16 of them: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHPlFXqQEwc&feature=BFa&list=PL5EB9C15A3BB8B65E (again, only background info)

Quite possible, but it was stated somewhere that the last dragon layed a bunch of eggs before dieing. Those eggs never hatched and are primarily the ones that people have been collecting.

I can't remember exactly what episode.

No, that was never stated in an episode. Nor has it been stated in the books-which-shall-not-be-discussed, so I'm not sure where you got that from.

The show is expensive, and sometimes it's easy to forget that it's a TV show, and there are constraints.  Sure the Dothraki could've used a few more sweeping CGI shots last season, but I wouldn't have wanted those in the place of fake looking Dragons.  Concessions have to be made, and I feel like they've made the right choices so far.

Conan touches base with GoT last night....(be patient)

http://teamcoco.com/video/citizenship-test-pie
 

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Originally Posted by Deanburger 

The show is expensive, and sometimes it's easy to forget that it's a TV show, and there are constraints.  Sure the Dothraki could've used a few more sweeping CGI shots last season, but I wouldn't have wanted those in the place of fake looking Dragons.  Concessions have to be made, and I feel like they've made the right choices so far.

Yeah, that's the unfortunate reality of it.  If anyone has to get the short stick when it comes to budget or time or whatever, it should be the Dothraki.  The way the story is structured, shortcomings there are least likely to spill over into other facets of show.

Dwelling on the last episode (as I tend to do) I can't help but think that dramatically speaking at this point it would make the most sense for Jaime at some point to kill Robb.  They've taken pains to show that Jaime is one of the most dangerous people in the lands, they've shown us that Robb has no interest in a 1 on 1 fight with Jaime and they've set it up so that if Jaime does anything at all to the Starks it comes directly back to Cat.  The question is whether it would destroy Cat to realize she'd sacrificed her son for the possibility of saving her daughters.

After Robb's roll in the hay with Sexy Nurse, I'd say Jaime is the least of his problems.  If Frey gets wind of that there will be hell to pay. Aren't there a significant amount of Frey soldiers in Robb's army? It's not like Robb is being especially secretive about it.

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Originally Posted by Hyperspace 

No, that was never stated in an episode. Nor has it been stated in the books-which-shall-not-be-discussed, so I'm not sure where you got that from.

It's mentioned at the non-spoiler Game of Thrones Wiki that the final dragons laid eggs which never hatched. I guess I picked it up from somewhere since I have not read the books.

http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Dragons

But you're right, it's not stated specifically how many eggs are left and where Dani's came from exactly. I doubt it will ever be talked about in the show, nor does it really matter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deanburger 

After Robb's roll in the hay with Sexy Nurse, I'd say Jaime is the least of his problems.  If Frey gets wind of that there will be hell to pay. Aren't there a significant amount of Frey soldiers in Robb's army? It's not like Robb is being especially secretive about it.

I doubt that the Frey soldiers care who Robb is banging. Beside I really don't think that Walder Frey with his multiple (and sometimes underage) wives is really riding a moral high horse. It will only be a problem if he desides to break his vow in the end. It will cause more of an issue between him and his mom, which isn't great right now anyway.

I agree that Jamie right now is not a problem. He's worried about escaping and keeping his head. If he escaped Brienne he would flee to Castlery Rock or Kings Landing, not go back to try and kill Robb.

Magister Illyrio outright said that the dragon's eggs are from "The Shadowlands beyond Asshai" in the first episode, so they've got nothing to do with the Targaryen dragons. He also made it pretty clear that they were really old--"the ages have turned them to stone". As in, they were fossilized.

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Originally Posted by BoatMan 

 

I agree that Jamie right now is not a problem. He's worried about escaping and keeping his head. If he escaped Brienne he would flee to Castlery Rock or Kings Landing, not go back to try and kill Robb.

I said eventually, not right now.  I don't anticipate Jaime escaping Brienne, doubling back through people who are actively looking for him and sneaking in to Robb's tent to finish things.  I anticipate Brienne taking Jaime back to King's Landing safe and sound on nothing more than a promise from Jaime (and a Lannister always pays his debts) and Jaime heading back out to the only place that he truly belongs (the battlefields).

It just makes dramatic sense to me that Cat's choice should come back to haunt her in both the obvious ways and the ways she never predicted.  If a Lannister always pays his debts, Jaime has a pretty large debt he wants to pay back to Robb at this point.

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Originally Posted by BoatMan 

 

I doubt that the Frey soldiers care who Robb is banging. Beside I really don't think that Walder Frey with his multiple (and sometimes underage) wives is really riding a moral high horse. It will only be a problem if he desides to break his vow in the end.

I believe the words were "I don't want to marry her". I doubt right after the sex Robb went "Psyche! You dumb nurse, HAHAHAH"

I'm pretty sure that a highborn girl like HELLO NURSE getting her cherry popped before marriage is a BIG no-no.  At least, that's how it is in every medieval/classic story I'd ever seen.  Bringing shame to the family name and whatnot.  I think Robb's not going to have any choice but to marry her in order to protect her honor.  But for all I know, she wasn't a virgin. 

And now I think HELLO NURSE is indeed a spy/deal-breaker/temptation deliberately sent by someone to ensure Robb would break his word with the Freys.  It's too much of a coincidence that she magically appears after the deal is set and continues to flirt it up with him.  I trust NO ONE.

She already abandoned and dishonored her family, so I don't think she's going to be crying about the shame to her name.  And they are nobility in their country but foreigners who don't rate in the Westeros scheme of things.  Noblemen step out on their wives all the time in this society of arranged marriages, I'd imagine.  Any shame to the women involved is much, much less important in the public eye than the insult to the head of her family if Robb failed to honor his vow.  He's not marrying the nurse.

My God, Emilia Clarke. I get used to seeing her in the silly blonde wig, and... I... I forget... [thud]

Yeah, I sometimes wonder how much of my cooler reaction to the Dany character compared to the other GoT fandom I've encountered comes from thinking the wig just looks horrible.

Even out of character, Jon seems such a tool.

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Originally Posted by Trav McGee 

My God, Emilia Clarke. I get used to seeing her in the silly blonde wig, and... I... I forget... [thud]

She has an amazing smile...which Dany never gets to use.

Thanks for the heads up on the Complete Guide to the Westeros feature on the Blu.  Worked through the Histories and Lore last night.  Very useful and valuable backstory.  And very well done.

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Originally Posted by Schwartz 

Yeah, I sometimes wonder how much of my cooler reaction to the Dany character compared to the other GoT fandom I've encountered comes from thinking the wig just looks horrible.

I don't much care for her wig either. It just doesn't look very natural. Her hair never looks appropriately grimy or sweaty.

Take one of Cersei's wigs, dump some Clorox on it, and give it to Dany.  Problem solved.

Apropos of nothing in particular...

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Originally Posted by Jacob Singer 

Apropos of nothing in particular...

 

The young child looking up, hands clutched to his chest in awe, is what sends this into legendary territory.

*creeps in*

I get that this last episode was supposed to be a "calm before the storm" type deal, but I didn't enjoy it as much as the previous one. Anyone else telegraph the nurse's back story two sentences in? I pretty much lost all interest in her as soon as she wrapped up (she didn't sell it acting wise either). Varys and Tyrion was gold. So was Stannis and Davos. Dany's scene was just sloppy. Where are they? How are they even remotely safe? Why aren't the Warlock and the King of Quarth not just dragging Dany to the tower?

Don't speak ill of the Young Wolf Stelios...  The King Of The North knows what he's doing.

That Tyrion shop is uh-may-zing.

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Originally Posted by TentacleTed 

*creeps in*

 

I get that this last episode was supposed to be a "calm before the storm" type deal, but I didn't enjoy it as much as the previous one. Anyone else telegraph the nurse's back story two sentences in? I pretty much lost all interest in her as soon as she wrapped up (she didn't sell it acting wise either). Varys and Tyrion was gold. So was Stannis and Davos. Dany's scene was just sloppy. Where are they? How are they even remotely safe? Why aren't the Warlock and the King of Quarth not just dragging Dany to the tower?

I love how Rob was turned on by what amounted to a college entrance essay. I understand what they were trying to do with that scene, but it's still amusing that Game of Thrones spent 5 minutes on  a CPR story.

Oh, and more GoT cast spam, since they're all so pretty:

Jack Gleeson cleans up well.

That's a hideous picture!  Gleeson looks more robot than the kid from A.I. 

Gleeson looks like the thing from Splice in that image. What are those, rattlesnake eyes? Freaky. 

It's funny hearing him in interviews. He seems like the most calm and thoughtful kid imaginable. Everyone on the set supposedly loves him, including Dinklage.

I'm sure he's just the most terrific person on the planet, but it's probably a good thing he's contemplating giving up acting after GoT and becoming a physicist. Poor bugger's going to be typecast from here to eternity, all because he does SUCH a good job playing SUCH a bastard.

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Originally Posted by stelios 

I don't care what you guys say, I'm nervous about Robb. I'm not seeing him making the next season. Because as I'm reading almost all his scenes, both the constant parallels with Ned and the scriptwriting 101 humanization attempted with the romance, everything screams "Dead man walking."

 

I hope I'm wrong.

He can't die before I see that ass.  If anyone's dying, it's Cat.  Whatshisface at the camp was aching to get his hands on the Kingslayer, and she took that away.  I can imagine him snapping in the finale and taking his frustrations out on her.

Originally Posted by Greg Clark 

I'm sure he's just the most terrific person on the planet, but it's probably a good thing he's contemplating giving up acting after GoT and becoming a physicist. Poor bugger's going to be typecast from here to eternity, all because he does SUCH a good job playing SUCH a bastard.

The nice ones usually are the best at being bonkers.  By every account I've read, Gary Oldman's personality is closer to Commish Gordon in reality than his more psycho characters.

Frey showed that he didn't give a shit about anyone's cause, he just wanted to marry off his kids.  If Robb turns his back on that deal it's going to cause a lot of problems, not to mention the fact that it doesn't seem like Arya is going to go through with her marriage either.  They should've made a "If Ned gets beheaded all bets are off" clause.

I'd also like to point out that this is all Cat's fault yet again, she made that deal without consulting Robb.

Yeah, I don't see how anyone can really be behind Cat at this point. I think she'll redeem herself eventually but she really fucked up in the moment. It's looking doubtful the King of the North can recover. They lost their only leverage, they're rapidly alienating all their allies and bannerman, and the leadership at the top is fractured. 

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Originally Posted by Greg Clark 

I'm sure he's just the most terrific person on the planet, but it's probably a good thing he's contemplating giving up acting after GoT and becoming a physicist. Poor bugger's going to be typecast from here to eternity, all because he does SUCH a good job playing SUCH a bastard.

I think he ought to find at least one other big role before he quits, something that makes him likeable. Otherwise he's likely to have strangers punching him out on the street for the rest of his life.

I'm not fully going to defend what Cat did--it was rash, and she should have waited for Robb--but it was looking incredibly likely that Jaime was about to suffer an "unfortunate accident" at the hands of the Karstarks or someone else any minute, in which case they would have been in even worse shape then they are now. At least they still have theoretical leverage.

Also, the story of Jamie and Brienne hasn't played out.  As a not-having-read-the-books viewer, for me, it's an interesting quest they're on and we have yet to see how it resolves itself.  Cat has been doing what she thinks is right to protect her family--in a situation she has no doubt dreaded her entire adult life (Ned's assassination)--and I don't think she's making any of these moves on a whim.  Her vision and Robb's are in some ways at odds and we have yet to see who will be right in the end.
 

At this point, anyone named Stark is fucked.  All of them have too much heart, loyalty, and honor to survive this game.  Even the most ruthless one of all, Arya, had to bring that little fatass boy with her out of Harrenhall, even though he's not a valuable asset.  He's just her friend.  A fatass friend who will eat all the food and slow her down.  That whole family is doomed for extinction.

Jesus. They can't seem to find Gleason's non creepy camera angle. Maybe he should try the puppy dog head tilt.

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Originally Posted by Deanburger 

Frey showed that he didn't give a shit about anyone's cause, he just wanted to marry off his kids.  If Robb turns his back on that deal it's going to cause a lot of problems, not to mention the fact that it doesn't seem like Arya is going to go through with her marriage either.  They should've made a "If Ned gets beheaded all bets are off" clause.

 

I'd also like to point out that this is all Cat's fault yet again, she made that deal without consulting Robb.

...Yes she did, if you're referring to the deal with Lord Bridge Troll Frey. There was that interluding scene where she presents Robb with the ultimatum  and assured him that all of Frey's daughters are homely so he could just suck it up or turn back and let Ned rot in King's Landing.  It was implied that Cat was pretty much the only one who could cross the bridge and negotiate with Frey because he was a family friend and would have turned anyone else from Robb's camp over to the Lannisters.

I mean, yeah, Cat has screwed up big time, but she seems to bear the brunt of the blame for Team Stark's problems when it's really the Targaryens/Lannisters who started shit. The problem is it seems Arya's the only one in the family with any sense of strategy, and even that's questionable.

Poor Cat is totally the Skylar White of Westeros.

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Originally Posted by Dr Harford 


What is it with HBO driving talented child actors from the industry? Max Perkis, beloved for his work in Master and Commander and Rome, never worked again after his HBO show wrapped. Now Joffrey is rumbling he's set to retire. Not how things usually work in Hollywood.

I was just wondering what happened to Max Pirkis today.  Apparently the guy who played the older Octavian retired from acting too.  Weird all around.

Max Perkis certainly seemed to be really good too. And briefly prolific. But then, sometimes you end up being Haley Joel Osment, poor kid.