Game Of Thrones Season 2: Throne Harder SPOILER FREE - Page 14

I doubt the show will go much more into it so here's the more detailed version. It's pretty much what you would expect.

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Originally Posted by Schwartz 

I assume the blacksmith noticed, as Gendry did, that prominent lords kept taking an interest in the boy and then dying suddenly.  I figure he just didn't want any part of whatever was going, although I wouldn't be shocked to learn that Littlefinger or Varys pushed him to it.

I'd say, if that were the case, it'd more likely be Varys. Watching Littlefinger this episode, I realized that his sigil should be a snake (Seriously, imagine him as a huge talking snake this whole episode.) He's the definition of opportunist, only in it for himself, and whatever schemes he has are solely for his own benefit.

Varys, meanwhile, MEANS it when he says he "Serves the realm." Looking back last season, I think that, had he KNOWN Ned was going to end up getting his head chopped off, he would've done something to help him escape. Sure he's untrustworthy, but his schemes are for a larger purpose, for "the greater good." Now, whether or not they actually ARE is irrelevant; he BELIEVES what he's doing is for the greater good. 

In short, if one of those two were to use their influence to save one of Robert's bastards, it'd be Varys. 

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Originally Posted by Joseph P. Brenner 

That's great!  Where did you find that?

My wild theory on Gendry is that he is Robert and Cersei's actual son.  I could mis-remembering something (probably am), but when Ned was talking to him, I got the idea that since he didn't know his mother, and just described her, that it could have been Cersei.  With that wild theory, I think Cersei sent him away.  Not personally of course, but worked it out.  This stupid theory was in jeopardy when the bastards started being killed and I thought Cersei ordered it, but then it was clear Joffrey ordered it. 

Also, fuck Joffrey.  The actor is killing it, but I really hope his death is a memorable one.  Hopefully at the end of Needle.

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Originally Posted by Hyperspace 

 

That's great!  Where did you find that?

 

pretty much all of my posts come from reddit

King Hammis

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Originally Posted by Syd 

 

I'd say, if that were the case, it'd more likely be Varys. Watching Littlefinger this episode, I realized that his sigil should be a snake (Seriously, imagine him as a huge talking snake this whole episode.) He's the definition of opportunist, only in it for himself, and whatever schemes he has are solely for his own benefit.

 

Varys, meanwhile, MEANS it when he says he "Serves the realm." Looking back last season, I think that, had he KNOWN Ned was going to end up getting his head chopped off, he would've done something to help him escape. Sure he's untrustworthy, but his schemes are for a larger purpose, for "the greater good." Now, whether or not they actually ARE is irrelevant; he BELIEVES what he's doing is for the greater good. 

 

In short, if one of those two were to use their influence to save one of Robert's bastards, it'd be Varys. 

Except if Littlefinger did it, he did it in order to have leverage against the Lannisters and it would fall right in nicely with him being a snake.  Littlefinger doesn't strike me as the type of guy who only has one plan moving forward, he's using his information network to put together as much leverage on as many people as possible to keep himself relatively safe.

EDIT: Never mind, Brenner already covered it.

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Originally Posted by Teitr Styrr 

My wild theory on Gendry is that he is Robert and Cersei's actual son.  I could mis-remembering something (probably am), but when Ned was talking to him, I got the idea that since he didn't know his mother, and just described her, that it could have been Cersei.  With that wild theory, I think Cersei sent him away.  Not personally of course, but worked it out.  This stupid theory was in jeopardy when the bastards started being killed and I thought Cersei ordered it, but then it was clear Joffrey ordered it. 

 

Also, fuck Joffrey.  The actor is killing it, but I really hope his death is a memorable one.  Hopefully at the end of Needle.

I like the theory other than trying to explain away Robert having no apparent recollection of that pregnancy.  It certainly would cast a new light on the scene where Tyrion is accusing Cersei of ordering the killings of the bastards, and how conflicted that information must have made her.

Thanks for the info about Davos.

speaking of Davos

So what role do you think Liam was up for last season?

Just a note if you're looking at the related videos on youtube, some of the other thronecast interviews have spoilers but this one is fine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syd 

 

Varys, meanwhile, MEANS it when he says he "Serves the realm." Looking back last season, I think that, had he KNOWN Ned was going to end up getting his head chopped off, he would've done something to help him escape. Sure he's untrustworthy, but his schemes are for a larger purpose, for "the greater good." Now, whether or not they actually ARE is irrelevant; he BELIEVES what he's doing is for the greater good.

This is my take on Varys, too. Varys would sell out any individual person in a heartbeat, but he really does want what's best for the realm. That said, I think he tends to interpret "what's best for the realm" as "maintaining the status quo". That's why he tried to get Ned to help Robert but then didn't step in to help him out when he got thrown in a dungeon. He knew the facts about Joffrey were going to cause major turmoil if they came out. He can happily work for both sides, too, if he thinks that's what's required.

One thing I don't quite get about Varys from season one: we saw him conspiring with the Magister from Pentos, apparently to get the Targaryens back on the throne, but then he willingly sent an assassin to kill Dany. I don't know if he figured Dany was a lost cause after Viserys died, or deliberately hired a shitty assassin (that's a stretch, I think), or figured that he was cool with either outcome...maybe he even guessed that a botched assassination would rile up Khal Drogo and hasten the invasion?

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Originally Posted by The Prankster 

 

One thing I don't quite get about Varys from season one: we saw him conspiring with the Magister from Pentos, apparently to get the Targaryens back on the throne, but then he willingly sent an assassin to kill Dany. I don't know if he figured Dany was a lost cause after Viserys died, or deliberately hired a shitty assassin (that's a stretch, I think), or figured that he was cool with either outcome...maybe he even guessed that a botched assassination would rile up Khal Drogo and hasten the invasion?

This one's been gnawing at me too (along with the unresolved, unaddressed in S2 "who sent Bran's assassin with Tyrion's dagger" mystery), especially as I agree, so far, with that assessment of Varys being true to "the realm" and ultimately scheming for stability and peace. To that end, I've half decided that he was merely playing the Pentos magister in that conversation, another instance of telling a player what he wants to hear while using the information from that player to different ends. No evidence one way or the other, but would seem consistent with the rest of his actions.

I hate to be that guy, but it's something the later books explain.

James Franco as Jaime and Danny McBride as Tyrion

I would assume Liam Cunningham was up for Jorah Mormont, as a guess.

What is or isn't addressed in the books is not for this thread, gents.

Yep, if you don't want to be that guy, then don't be.

As for Liam Cunningham, I assume he originally auditioned for Theoden King. This being my first experience with the actor (that I can recall), I still keep reminding myself he isn't Bernard Hill.

Yeah, he does have a striking resemblance to Bernard Hill. And Jean Reno at the same time. 

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Originally Posted by First Class 782 

I would assume Liam Cunningham was up for Jorah Mormont, as a guess.

That was my guess too.

There's a big spoiler regarding Varys in this thread that should be blacked out or removed as soon as possible. 

I'm not sure why my post was being read as a spoiler, since it wasn't, but I've edited my post anyway. We can discuss it further in the "those who have read the books" thread.
 

I appreciate you removing it, Prankster. I don't want to seem like a spoiler militant, I know it was an innocuous bit of conversation, I just felt it reveals a little too much about future developments for a character who is served best by being as enigmatic as possible. 

It added to my list of characters that I know survive fairly late into the series due to reader comments in the non-spoiler threads.  Prankster, you're a good guy and not to single you out, but this is not the first time your fairly innocuous comments have been revealing of things the show has not gotten to yet. 

I don't want to be a scold or to run away anyone who has read the books, but I ask again that you please be very, very careful when discussing character motivations because you can't help bringing what you've read to bear on your interpretation, and even what you don't say can be as revealing as what you do.  In addition to accidentally figuring out a few of the people that are going to be around awhile, I am currently expecting a certain character to take a particularly villainous turn because those who have read the books all seem to totally disregard any notes of sympathy the show has worked into their portrayal thus far.  I can't point to any one post about this character and say "this one is a spoiler" but this is essentially why we have a BOOKS DO NOT EXIST rule in the first place.

Liam would've made a solid Ser Barriston as well. I think he's too old to play Jorah.

Liam is 3 weeks older than Iain Glen.

edit: I guess this an opportunity to bring up more casting stuff from season 1. They read some actors for Ned but always wanted Sean Bean. They offered the role of Tyrion to Peter Dinklage from the start without an audition. I wonder what would have happened if Peter declined.

reposts of some auditions

Jason Momoa decided to perform a haka during his audition.

Rory McCann performing a great scene that for some reason was modified and given to Littlefinger

Fucking Joffrey set-up Tyrion last season didn't he? I just thought about the whole beating the prostitutes thing to get back at his uncle whom he cannot touch directly, and about how lame of a set-up giving Tyrion's knife to an assassin is, and it's basically the same thing. Joffrey isn't brilliant, and it was the best thing he could think of to fuck over his uncle and not have it traced back to him. Pretty sure that's it.

For all these people shit talking my boy Vary's, am I crazy or wasn't there a scene in season one where Vary's DID try and help Ned escape the dungeon so he could join Jon, but it was EDDARD who refused to flee because "his honour was worth more than his life"?
 

I would like to introduce an initiative in this thread to refer to Joffrey as The Yellow Bastard from here on out.  He is yellow, he is a bastard in every sense of the word, and he can't have fun unless a woman is screaming.

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Originally Posted by Freeman 

For all these people shit talking my boy Vary's, am I crazy or wasn't there a scene in season one where Vary's DID try and help Ned escape the dungeon so he could join Jon, but it was EDDARD who refused to flee because "his honour was worth more than his life"?
 

Not exactly how you remembered it. Varys was relaying Cersei's message that Ned would be allowed to take the black if he confessed to treason. Ned refused at first because of honor but he did end up taking the deal when Varys brought up Sansa and Arya.

Just found this pic from season 1 again. The facial expressions in this picture are perfect. In the wider shot that was on hbo.com, Littlefinger has his usual smirk. Varys is the only one looking away.

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Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny 

Fucking Joffrey set-up Tyrion last season didn't he? I just thought about the whole beating the prostitutes thing to get back at his uncle whom he cannot touch directly, and about how lame of a set-up giving Tyrion's knife to an assassin is, and it's basically the same thing. Joffrey isn't brilliant, and it was the best thing he could think of to fuck over his uncle and not have it traced back to him. Pretty sure that's it.

 

 

I would find that surprising.  Joffrey didn't seem to be actively plotting at that point and even the whole incident with the butcher's boy seemed to be mostly orchestrated by Cersei.  We also know that Joffrey was intimidated by his uncle even before Tyrion was the Hand from when he got slapped down about his duty to express his well wishes to the Stark family for Bran's recovery.

Plus, there's no reason that Joffrey should have known who was responsible for Bran's injuries to begin with.  There would have been no reason for him to hire an assassin.

As far as I remember, Varys was not offering Ned the chance to escape and rejoin his son.  He was chastising him for allowing his honor to doom him to poor choices, and tried to help Ned come to terms with the fact that he could still save his life by taking the black and confessing to treason, if he still wanted hope for himself and his children.

I do think that Varys was sincere in trying to give Ned the best deal possible, but he wasn't willing or able to work miracles for him and put his own life in danger.

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Originally Posted by A-Pathetic 

 

 

I would find that surprising.  Joffrey didn't seem to be actively plotting at that point and even the whole incident with the butcher's boy seemed to be mostly orchestrated by Cersei.  We also know that Joffrey was intimidated by his uncle even before Tyrion was the Hand from when he got slapped down about his duty to express his well wishes to the Stark family for Bran's recovery.

 

Plus, there's no reason that Joffrey should have known who was responsible for Bran's injuries to begin with.  There would have been no reason for him to hire an assassin.

We weren't, at the time, exposed enough to kind of person Joffrey is to determine whether he would be actively plotting this kind of thing, and it doesn't matter if he didn't know who pushed Bran out the window and why. Bran was in a vulnerable position, and Tyrion had just smacked the shit out of Joffrey for not being attentive to what the Stark's were going through. It seems to me like the harshest, most indirect "fuck you" a teenage sociopath like Joffrey could cook up at the time (which is why the prostitute scene brought me back to it). Cersei wouldn't have done it because one, it's too impolitic for her and would have snowballed into exactly what it snowballed into, and two, it would have enraged Jaime (who clearly loves his brother). I can't quite recall where Littlefinger was in that moment in the narrative, but it's too inelegant for him to have orchestrated (with no clear angle he could work), despite being the guy who presented the evidence to Catelyn (though it wouldn't surprise me if he found it suspect and figured it out after the fact).

updated version

That's fantastic. Though I have to take issue with the (possibly unintentional) implication that Bush has a huge dick.

Seriously, the Mother of Dragons will burn you.

Can she see Winterfell from her house?

Danerys is Hillary. Forced from a rightful position of power, aligned herself with strange foreigners for protection, married to a sexual Tyrannosaurus, selfishly assisted with dark unnecessary ritual with evil powers to the detriment of her people's established health care system.

Oh, almost forgot to factor in this week's ep, where an eloquent, clear-headed black man helps bail her out, for which she is grateful, while never forgetting that she may have to potentially screw him over but good to get where she needs to go.

If this were one election cycle ago, you'd have a strong case for Balon as McCain - grizzled old military man whose attempt at an internal rebellion was squashed by the former king, now sees his chance to grab a crown from an untested young upstart who is proving surprisingly canny in the field.

You also get Theon/Lieberman - came up in one house in the north, gets frustrated that he is never going to rise past under certain point with them, so under the guise of reaching across the aisle he defects to the service of the military man in his doomed campaign.

Palin would be the whore who rode the turnip cart to the capital city only to find out that the political elite are all big meanies.

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Originally Posted by Trav McGee 

Palin would be the whore who rode the turnip cart to the capital city only to find out that the political elite are all big meanies.

Roz? Oh, hell no.

Palin's Theon. Sent from a far off, backwards-ass land, thoroughly convinced irresistable golly-gee-ness and sex appeal is enough to garner power, makes a fucking asshole of him/herself in the process, gets rode out of town on a fucking rail, where his/her real family is now convinced they can bumble themselves back into being any sort of major power.

Ros has a better grasp of foreign policy than Palin. Actually she has a better grasp of American foreign policy than Palin. Despite not living on the same planet.

Theon, meanwhile, is more likable. But otherwise that's a good analogy.
 

Except I don't think Theon was convinced of any of that, he was just grasping at what straws were available to him in his awkward position.  And he wasn't run out of town on a rail, he's defected.

I dunno, being sent back home to talk to your bumpkin nation about marching to war still seems like busywork. I've come to seriously doubt Robb really wants Theon anywhere near something important for this war. If anybody will give Robb a moment of pause, it'll be Theon's father/sister, not him, baptism be damned.

Reaching out to his father was Theon's idea, and he had to sell Robb on it.  Not to mention how important the ships that are the Greyjoys main asset have been to everyone's war plans all along, and that the worst possible place to send a hostage to do "busywork" would be the stronghold of the family he was taken from.  You're way off base here.

Fair enough. It's possible all that stuff skipped my mind just because I kinda hate that kid. And yet, still love watching his side of the story. Yay paradoxes.