THE AVENGERS (2012) Post-Release - Page 3

Going back for a second viewing this arvo.  I just want to prove to myself that this thing is going to have a hell of a rewatchability factor.
 

Obligatory unrelated first sentence to keep those spoilers away from the poor people who haven't had a chance to see this movie yet.

 

Is it safe?

 

Okay...

 

 

Totally in agreement with you on all counts there. I'm very pleased that Whedon took the time, during that battle scene, to show Cap's leadership skills in two distinct ways; with the everyday people and then with the other Avengers. Evans completely sold those moments to me and I didn't find myself wondering why the other Avengers would follow his orders; it just seemed totally right. Hawkeye could have actually done with more screen time but I'm happy with what we got.

 

And, yeah, I think we're pretty much agreed with Hulk as far as I can tell. Great to see him not only putting his rage to use against something other than tanks but also given more depth beyond the usual grunting, angry monster. That smile when Cap tells him "Hulk... smash!" was absolutely fantastic. Whedon made Hulk dangerous and funny, both at the same time, and he has my admiration for that.

 

 

Pretty much everything was better in The Avengers than in the proceeding movies (and this is coming from someone who has enjoyed all of the Marvel movies since Iron Man). It makes me wonder whether future non-Avengers instalments will manage to meet the high bar set here...

 

 

I think he has thing for Asgardians.

 

Loved Thor's quick reversal of 'support' for Loki after learning of the 80 dead. Possibly the best one liner in the movie. 

 

It's pure entertainment and a great time at the movies. Huge crowd reaction. This is going to go really far. Really happy for Whedon.

 

 

 

You'd think that people would have had enough of silly spoilers. But I look around me and I see it isn't so,

 

 

 

 

They have a year still... But I imagine they're going to be making sure that the spectacle elements fucking deliver. And if the success of this has them fast tracking a Batman/Superman and subsequent JLA movie that can also be a good thing. Let's hope they're taking notes on how to do it right.

 

 

 

I stand corrected. Cap has three great moments. Before, I was referring specifically to his action scenes.

 

As far as your second concern... I think we have to look at the non-Avengers installments in much the same way you look at one shot comic stories. They're good but they're always small and personal. The individual movies are the places where there can be real character growth. That's the advantage. And they serve as appetizers for the big spectacle main course of the next Avengers movie, which is much like those special 64-page annuals. Or a major crossover. No character growth or development - just an event.

 

As long as they keep getting solid creative teams to work on the one shots, we'll be fine. People are going to be hungry for more glimpses of these characters. Iron Man 2 was a disappointment. But I'll bet you the third one gets a huge boost in expectations thanks to this. And the same goes for the next Thor and Cap adventures.

 

By the way, is there any truth to the rumor I've heard that Hulk may cameo in Iron Man 3? There are hints sprinkled throughout The Avengers... They really build up this great bromance between Stark and Banner. I'd love for them to follow through on that.

 

A small sampling of how big this thing will be. It was the number 1 movie down here in NZ after only 1 day (ANZAC day public holiday)

 

 

 

Edited by Damar - 4/28/12 at 3:03am

 

 

Did you hear the one about the Asgardian and the Olympian?

 

 

 

I actually quite liked that.

 

 

On the scale of Superhumans Rogers is far closer to Coulson than Thor or Iron Man. He is super human (He can certainly handle himself) but he is still just human. HIs strength is that he just keeps going. I loved when Thor picked him up and asked him if he was ready for another bout and he replied "Why? You getting sleepy?" He was clearly exhausted but on he went. Loved it.

 

 

Yeah, Cap's heart is one of his main powers.  He just doesn't quit.  That's why he's *my* hero, anyway

 

Another great Cap moment I'm kinda surprised no one has mentioned yet (but understandably buried under the other thousand great little touches) . . . Steve silently taking out and handing Fury the ten bucks when the Helicarrier goes invisible.  Laughed even harder the second time.

 

 

I didn't mind the actual helping out, Thor and Iron Man are beyond him in power, but it does become notable in comparison to Black Widow and Hawkeye, who don't require to be saved as often despite being baseline humans without the above human strength and speed, or when they do require help from Thor or Tony, it's something more troublesome than just a few mooks.

 

That said, I thought First Avenger was the weakest of the Marvel Universe movies, and already disliked how Cap was portrayed skill/strength-wise there, so it wasn't suprising he was kept in-character if still disappointing for me personally. Rogers works as a character, but not as much a physical badass like the rest.

Chiming in with the same sentiments as everyone else. Loved it, and having watched it for the second time yesterday, found it works even better second time round. Especially if you've an appreciative audience (I work at the flicks, so first time we watched it was just four staff in the screen). As has already been said, spontaneous applause and whoops and such just DOESN'T happen in the UK, and yet here it is out in full force. Restores my faith in the cinema-going public when they 'get' it, in all the right places. I'll not go through all the little awesome bits, as everyone's already done it, but one thing i don't think i've seen mentioned yet is something I missed first time round. Right at the end, when Tony and Pepper are playing with the wireframe model of Stark Tower (and it then pans out to reveal the 'A'), there is a Quinjet in a hanger inside the model. I didn't clock it it first time, just assuming they were remodelling/rendering a new building, and that the A was just a cute little touch, but clearly they're building an Avengers base. It's not quite a mansion, but its pretty boss all the same. :D

Spare the rod and spoil the child... And, really people, it's not our fault they released this movie early in some international markets. Look on the bright side, at least you get some awesome bonus post-credits scene that we didn't. So feel good about that.

 

Anyway....

 

 

Mike's Pants summed up an answer to your Cap problems quite well. I'll just add that the fish out of water element might have something to do with it too. He's still living in an age of good old fashioned heroism and purity... Which is something that I think Evans plays really well. He's never fought the kinds of enemies he faces here. He was just used to Nazi soldiers and the relatively tame forces of Hydra. And the reason Hawkeye and Black Widow don't have as much trouble is because they have more experience with modern warfare. It may sound like a stretch, but think about it.

 

In the end, Cap has to catch up. I'm pretty sure his sequel will be all about that.

 

Speaking of which... Watching Chris Evans in The Avengers made me actively excited for a present day Captain America sequel. Before, I was wary of the idea, fearing I'd miss the old-fashioned charm of the original. But seeing how well Evans was playing the fish out of water element made me want to see more of the old fashioned boy scout in a modern cynical world. I enjoyed The First Avenger, but I think this movie really made me appreciate Evans' take on the character. He has a straight-faced corniness very reminiscent of Christopher Reeve as Superman.

For those who haven't seen it...

 

Was there any significance in the blonde girl who saw Cap sans mask? She is shown later on tv screens saying good thing about him but I mean if there was more about that regarding the mask...

I unleash my SPOILER BLOCKING powers upon you through the use of a meaningless line of text!

 

All hail Spoiler-Blocker Guy, for I am he!

 

I totally agree with you here. I enjoyed Captain America: The First Avenger too but Evans was even better in this movie, even though he had less screen time. I like the fact that he's still "not just a solider, but a good man" and the way he plays the character illustrates that point. I truly can't believe that this is the same guy who played the witty, arrogant Human Torch in Fantastic Four.

 

 

I was wondering about her too. I made an effort to see if they gave her character's name on the news report but they didn't. (Unless I'm completely blind, of course).

 

Spoilers below.....

 

 

love, love, loved this movie. It was the perfect continuation to the Marvel films thus far.  Pretty much all of my favorite moments have been mentioned aside from the Pepper/Stark interaction about who's idea Stark Towers was.

 

Also I'm glad someone explained the Hulk transformation thing to me it was the only thing about the movie that was bothering me.  Aside from that I had a blast and intend to see it again.

What was your audience like Ken?

 

 

 

I loved the remaining "A" at the end.

 

 

 

What stuff are you referring? 

This thing is getting bootlegged and distributed online to high heaven right now.  Will this make studios think twice about releasing big properties overseas ahead of the US market?

 

 

I really don't think so.  People who are gonna steal it are always gonna steal it.

Okay... So, rather than continue spoiling the movie for everyone, let's talk about business for a minute...

 

 

One of the reasons they release these big movies early in overseas markets (like Asia and South America) is to combat piracy. They're not worried so much about the US market. They know the movie will open big no matter what. But they know that if they open it early (or simultaneously) overseas, they get those audiences to actually go see it in a theater before they can find it on a street corner for a dollar. In those markets I mentioned, piracy is huge. (Case in point: you pretty much can't find any original music or film products here in Bolivia unless you special order them... all DVDs, Blu Rays and music CDs are bootleg copies)

 

A couple of years ago, Liam Neeson's thriller TAKEN was released all over the world almost 6 months before opening in the US. I think it was even available in its entirety on YouTube. And that certainly didn't hurt its box office at all.

 

 

Bonus points for Marvel since it's a must see on a big screen movie, there's no way someone could compare a bootleg and a theater. The tracking of this will be huge.

I remember hearing a rumour some time back about the possibility of a new Hulk television show. I truly hope that doesn't happen. The Hulk deserves to stay on the big screen and I want Ruffalo to continue playing Banner. I don't even want a separate Hulk film franchise anymore. I'm more than happy to catch up with him in The Avengers 2, and whatever other sequels may follow that one.

Tupac's cameo was awesome! LOL  just kidding...

 

 

I think this movie will be a phenomenon like TDK. Maybe even bigger than Titanic or Avatar when it comes to money.

Is Coulson the only death in the movie?

 

It turns out at the end that it was Kevin Spacey all along! And other spoilers of this nature await beyond this line....

 

........................

 

Anyway....

 

As far as major characters, yes. But during the airship siege, several soldiers die. Also, Hawkeye kills some dudes with arrows in Germany, I think.

 

It is implied that all the Chiutaris die too. (I don't know if I spelled that right and I don't care)

 

There is death... But the whole movie exists on a cartoonish heightened reality. Because what Hulk does to Loki would most certainly have killed him in real life.

Bruce Willis was dead all the time...

 

__________

 

So, Loki's plan was to defuse Hulk, so they don't have him at hand, right? Why didn't he manipulate the other members of the team?

I felt there was some missing footage regarding this issue.

 

Lost reel question #2 Also, did Black Widow realize there might be a possible way to cut the device after noticing something odd when Hawkeye awakes? Because everything indicates under his spell you could have retain certain conscious. 

Hold me, thrill me kids me spoil me

Still here, go away! Still spoiling

I think the plan was for Hulk to take out the carrier with all in it, not just get him out of the picture

Velvet Underground, 

___________

 

So good use of BW ordering distracting him to the jet pilot then.

If Joss comes back -he will, he should- I wonder if Loki will find a way to neutralize the big guy since it was a pain in the ass for him this time. 

 

My usual complain against action scenes in blockbuster movies don't apply here, the action scenes have brains: Stark using his Mark 7 in the last second, all coming from Nat, Cap. America defusing the hostage situation quickly etc.

Here's an idea for Cap 2. He's a soldier out of time. What would he think about the "War on Terror"? About the USA torturing prisoners etc...?! Put him at odds with the Government and the President who's a southern good old boy ala Bush. Have Cap made an enemy of the state and the climax is that the President is revealed to be Red Skull. His plan was to destroy America within. Cap hands him his ass. AMERICA, FUCK YEAH!!!

I totally lost my shit when it turned out Gwyneth Paltrow's head was in the box. That was just too much!

 

..................

 

 

 

In that scene where they all start arguing against each other, it's implied that Loki has something to do with that. He seems to be influencing them in some way with his scepter.

 

 

 

Not only that... They are coherently staged and shot. At all points you can tell who is fighting who and why. The geography is clear. You see everything that is going on and it looks fantastic. Like a comic book splash page brought to life.

 

I said it before and I'll say it again. This movie really makes Michael Bay look like an asshole.

 

I used to go out with a girl once that was the real-world spitting image of Daphne from Scooby Doo . . .

 

Nothing to do with the movie, but it's as good a spoiler buffer as anything else.

 

One thing I caught on second viewing which I didn't catch at all first time around due to crowd noise (which is just rare here as it is in the UK), when the pilot distracts Hulk . . .

 

"Target acquired.  Target engaged."

 

"Target angry!  Target ANGRY!!!!!"
 

 

 

Pretty much the same as yours Mike. Totally into it in a big way, and for 3pm on a Friday afternoon I was surprised at how full it was.

 

 

 

I also loved the one remaining A on Stark Towers at the end.  I have to hand it to Marvel, they are really handling the Film side of the business really well.

 

 

Fully agreed. And it was perfect in length, as I briefly feared we'd already had seen all the big moments in the trailers and it would last five minutes at best. Instead we got closer to 20 minutes of full on superheroes vs aliens battle. I even liked how the Avengers believably began to fall under the infinite numbers despite all the asskicking, running out of energy and stamina. That last minute  dick move by the WSC was convenient but not out of character though I question the value of WSC's existence solely to be dicks.

 

Excellent review. And I would welcome a Franchise Me series covering all the movies in the future.

 

.....

 

This is getting pretty widespread critical acclaim. Certainly from the "film nerd" community and internet critics.

 

I'm curious how embraced it will be by the more traditional critics like Roger Ebert, for example.

 

Saw it last night.

 

While I enjoyed it immensely at the time, I did feel a little hollow after it finished. The simplistic story and lack of character development made it feel a bit insubstantial. I think Josh hit on this with his “Holiday Special” comment.

 

As I’ve thought about it today, I’m more comfortable with the split of individual character stories with arcs (ie. Esp when it works as in Iron Man, Cap and Thor) and then giant-fun-mash-up-comic-fun movie which also happens to be executed flawlessly (give or take a few early scenes). So with that in mind, I like it much more. Probably enough to check it out a second time.

 

I saw Thor just last week, so I quite liked seeing  the Asgardians given a lot to do here. I was happy enough with how it related to the previous movie (ie. Jane, getting back to Earth). Also, Loki may not have the best of plans, but I thought he added the right type of villain (tricky, grinning, pithy) to complement the heroes.

 

 

 

I heard it made Ebert's jaw hit the floor.

One thing I've been hearing is a slight lack of depth. But that doesn't mean that it's not incredibly entertaining. But "a lack of depth" can mean anything depending on your point of view. Would you place it next to The Empire Strikes Back and Raiders of the Lost Ark which were great popcorn movies but, admittedly, not the deepest movies ever made. How about next to Spider-man 2 and X2 which are considered the benchmark for Marvel adaptations. I'm not even going to ask for a comparison to The Dark Knight as that's an entirely different beast.

Considering there are 6 superheroes plus a villain, who all get substantial character time, I don't know if story depth even applies. (Even less important considering Fury, Coulson and Pepper Potts get a good run too).

When I say "depth" I don't mean narrative innovation. I know this isn't going to be structured like, say, Citizen Kane. My main concern is that of emotional resonance. Do you feels like the characters have learned something, about the world or a deeper knowledge of themselves? Killing off a character is fine to raise the emotional stakes but one of the things I loved about Spider-man 2, Thor and Captain America was their final moments where no one was high fiving each other and just simply dealing with the fallout of what happened/their decisions and there was a big question mark that you could see on peoples faces. I find those moments stay with me a lot longer than battle scene's.

 

 

There's some minor development... mainly along the lines of working together and overcoming personal differences. One particular point that hit home for me where the characters see the cost of failing to cooperate.

 

But really, the answer to your question is no. If you are after that, then Thor 2, Cap 2 and Iron Man 3 will be along in a little while. In the meantime, just sit back and enjoy the flat out awesomeness of seeing these iconic characters get together and cause a bit of ruckus (both for themselves and Loki).

But also... The movie is operating under the assumption that you've seen all the other ones. So you're supposed to come to it with that baggage. There is no character development because the previous movies took care of that. So the "resonance" it will have absolutely depends on what you bring to the table. I can imagine that it won't work nearly as well for someone coming into it cold. I'm going to see it again today... I'm sure it will hold up to repeated viewings.

 

 

 

I don't think you can really compare this movie to something like Raiders of the Lost Ark or Back to the Future. In essence, as a Summer popcorn movie, I suppose it merits comparison. But those are self-contained films that operate on a different level. They are classic films that were spun off into successful franchises. But when people look back on them fondly, they tend to think of the originals and leave it at that. Most people seem to agree that their sequels are inferior films, even while liking them.

 

This movie is fairly unique in the sense that you have to look at it in the context of the complete Marvel project. And not so much as a single entity. It was a major undertaking that they managed to bring to fruition and pull off in about as satisfying a way as anyone could have expected. Ultimately, The Avengers is the crowning achievement of a 4-year effort and it's very difficult to judge it in comparison to other films because there haven't really been any other projects quite like this before.

 

In terms of sheer spectacle, you can compare it to the Transformers movies or the Emmerich disaster films. Taken like that, it trumps them all in execution. And I think it will have staying power as part of a greater whole. For an entire generation and beyond, these movies are primed to function in a manner similar to the Bond films. Kids who grow up with these movies will want to share them with their own kids. If they can maintain this level of uniform quality through the subsequent sequels, I think this is going to go on for years. It has all but cemented the "superhero movie" as a legitimate genre. And I think, with the success of The Avengers, a kind of standard has been set as far as how to approach these things from now on.

 

Don't be surprised if they back down somewhat in not wanting to integrate Spider-Man, for instance. (They could easily shoot a post-credits teaser for the end of that. Or simply cut it in such a way that a sequel could easily accommodate the rest of the Marvel mythology)

 

And I'm sure all that talk about the Zack Snyder Superman being "an individual film" will be thrown out the window as they rush to replicate this model with the DC universe.

 

This thing has just come out. But we're looking at a game changer in some ways. Though its real impact will probably be felt in the next couple of years.

Superman is almost a semi-God nobody will be interested in seeing bump with other less charismatic heroes. Batman, the sole exception, isn't currently part of his world so you'll have to develop another solo movie just to fix that... On the other hand, Marvel did a good job having Thor being really good interacting with other fellas.

 

 

I guess what I'm hoping for is the type of feeling I got from what I consider Joss Whedon's masterpiece, Once More With Feeling, from Buffy and, no, I'm not talking about singing and dancing although I wouldn't be against The Avengers 2: The Musical. To put it into context, I had never watched an episode of Buffy before but I saw OMWF and although I may not have known the interpersonal relationships between the charcters, by the end of that episode I pretty much understood where they all stood in relation to one another as well as their place within the show. It also worked brilliantly as a self-contained episode but by the end I also felt that the characters had been changed by some ugly truths that had been revealed about themselves that they were going to have to deal with in future episodes. The bad guy was defeated by a technicality but they didn't feel as though they had really won anything other than a hard smack in the face with the reality of their situations. This gave it the weight and "emotional resonance" that I'd like to see in The Avengers. Sure, they'll win in the end but at what cost?   

 

 

 

 I'm glad you mentioned James Bond because Casino Royale was a near masterpiece and had everything that I like to see in what was technically a sequel. It had a great story, excellent villain, was action packed and the relationship between Bond and Vesper gave that movie an emotional core that I had not felt in any other movie from the series. Quantum of Suckass completely failed in every way because although it was an hour shorter and had 4X the amount of action than CR, it felt weightless and generic.  

 

 

Not necessarily. The Nolan Batman movies have done as good a job of establishing an origin and mythology as anyone could expect. Rebooting him after this would be redundant. Unless he dies at the end of Rises, they could easily put the Nolan trilogy into context as vague "backstory" and simply re-introduce the Batman character (with a new actor, naturally) in a World's Finest movie. Provided that Man of Steel works.

 

Honestly, I really think that "rebooting" Batman softly, through a Superman spinoff would be the smartest thing to do. It would be similar to what they did in '86, when John Byrne essentially rebooted the entire DC Universe through Superman. And, in turn, it would be much like what they did with Marvel when they made Iron Man. It's no coincidence that, all things considered, Iron Man still comes off like the central character in The Avengers. It was inevitable given the way they launched the whole thing. And it works. But in the DC version, it makes perfect sense that Superman be the launching pad and ultimate central figure.

I think it would have been nice if the vague terrorist/criminal/foreign blackops mercs and scientists that Loki recruited were from the Ten Rings.