THE AVENGERS (2012) Post-Release - Page 23

Another Whedon connection: Jeremy Renner appeared on an episode of Angel.

Another Whedon connection: his penis was on all sets he's worked on. At least, that's the rumor.

Michael Jai White as Luke Cage.

Scott Adkins as Iron Fist.

Directed by Isaac Florentine.

DTV? You bet your ass. But it's probably the only way we're likely to get that movie at this point. And it's not like they can't integrate it into the Marvel Movie Universe.

I didn't recognize him either. I learned it from CHUD.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reasor 


Wow, I did not recognize him at all. Way to sneak him in!
I actually did a GIS for combinations of "Alexis Denisof," "The Avengers," and "The Other," and this was all I could find. But he sells it with gravitas, by golly!

Quote:

Originally Posted by bendrix 

 

Alexis Denisof, who played Loki's contact to you-know-who, is married to Alyson Hannigan.

And that is why I hate Alexis Denisof.

I believe Whedon has directed episodes of HIMYM, too.

grubstreeter, Yes!  A Tarantino directed Power Man & Iron Fist Film would be...Perfect!

Erix, I like your dtv version of PM and IF as well.

Chris Spider, No race changing for Iron Fist...Please.  The Master Of Kung Fu, could always be...Added to Power Man and Iron Fist.  I would go younger for Danny Rand aka Iron Fist, than other Marvel Heroes, as he was barely...20, when he left K'un-L'un!

So, back on topic WRT Caps costume... I, like most others, did not feel that Captain America's current day threads were realized quite right.  I seriously think that the wings needed to be actual wings coming off the helmet vs. painted on and that would have mitigated a lot of problems.  The hard plasticky shell of a helmet next to the fabric of the rest of the costume just was off putting.

I really didn't like it either. Cap's comic costume (like Wolverine's mask) is just one of those things that works better on the page.

I loved his WW2 look. If they had to update it, maybe just remove the helmet? That improved it dramatically.

The blue was too bright. And if that isn't the worst kind of fanboy nitpick it what was a miraculously good movie, I don't know what is.

You can blame superfan Phil Coulson for Cap's costume design. Apparently he had a hand in it.

And he's dead now. So apparently he got what he deserved for such a shitty costume.

Perhaps it can now be redesigned by someone with good sense for Captain America 2.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erix 

And he's dead now. So apparently he got what he deserved for such a shitty costume.
 

You take that back right now you heartless bastard!

I liked the bulk of his WWII costume.  The Avengers one makes all the bulking up Evans did for the role seem for naught.  He ended up looking slight.

I woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning. Excuse me.

But I also think they need to improve his costume. It didn't bother me THAT much, but there was a weird Halloween costume vibe to it. The WWII one seemed more realistic. They should go back to that look.
 

I hate link-by posting, but I can't catch up to this thread or confine my thoughts to one post's worth, so blog.  I'm doing a couple focusing on the incredible juggling act this script was tasked with.

Erix-- I do agree, somewhat. I didn't mind Cap's costume, but I think it's a step down from what we saw in Captain America. Doesn't look as good. But it still works for me.

Schwartz, great read, and I couldn't have put all of that better myself. Bring on the next installment!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schwartz 

I hate link-by posting, but I can't catch up to this thread or confine my thoughts to one post's worth, so blog.  I'm doing a couple focusing on the incredible juggling act this script was tasked with.

Nicely put, Schwartz-- some really salient points about how Coulson's "shocking" death works. Whedon's snappy dialogue tends to get the most attention, but he's a real craftsman when it comes to building character and story both within individual scenes and over the course of a narrative.

So, home sick today I watched the two "Ultimate Avengers" cartoons on Netflix. And I was struck by how similar the use of the Chitauri was to the movie (or vice versa). There's one shape-shifter like the Chitauri in the Ultimates comics, but the rest of the aliens are basically bio-mechanical cannon fodder. They even keel over battle-droid style when their mother ship is destroyed-- by Iron Man, no less. 

Yeah, those Ultimate Avengers cartoons are kind of... eh. There's some good voicework in them (David Boat as Thor, Fred Tatasciore as Hulk, Nolan North and Grey DeLisle as Hank and Janet), but otherwise they're just kind of going through the motions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erix 

I woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning. Excuse me.

 

But I also think they need to improve his costume. It didn't bother me THAT much, but there was a weird Halloween costume vibe to it. The WWII one seemed more realistic. They should go back to that look.
 

Darken the blue a bit and give the man a side arm.  Also, I know it's not the norm in his case, but having his mask off looked much better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Spider 

Yeah, those Ultimate Avengers cartoons are kind of... eh. There's some good voicework in them (David Boat as Thor, Fred Tatasciore as Hulk, Nolan North and Grey DeLisle as Hank and Janet), but otherwise they're just kind of going through the motions.

"Eh" kinda sums it up for me too. I'd avoided watching them before, because they were based on Millar's work-- whose main skill seems to be taking characters I love and turning them into insufferable pricks. But I'm still in an "Avengers" mood... The cartoon version doesn't go as far as Millar, which would have at least been interesting, and the whole thing pales terribly in comparison to "Earth's Mightiest Heroes". So... yeah, it's something that exists. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoonBaseNick 

Darken the blue a bit and give the man a side arm.  Also, I know it's not the norm in his case, but having his mask off looked much better.

When I see the stills of Cap with the mask/helmet off, the uniform does not look that bad to me. I'm also unsure, given the short time (for Cap) between his movie and "The Avengers", why Cap didn't bring a gun along to the alien invasion.

Earth's Mightiest Heroes is a pretty solid cartoon. I don't know if it's as good as the movie turned out, but it's got a great cast, and the writing and animation back things up nicely.

I've got a friend (not a lifelong comic book fan, and particularly unfamiliar with Marvel) who tells me that he considers "Earth's Mightiest Heroes" on par with "Justice League Unlimited". I wouldn't go that far exactly... but as much as I love the movie, I don't think live-action film could give us some of the things EMH does-- things like AIM bucketheads being commanded by MODOK.

MODOK!

There's a tradeoff, certainly. This works as a FILM, whereas EMH works very well indeed as an animated series.

Oh, it's a great trade-off, don't get me wrong. I'm not favoring one medium-- comics, cartoon, or live action-- over another when it's a good story, well told. And "The Avengers" works fantastically on film, as it turns out. I'm finally going for my second viewing tonight, and I've been looking forward to it all goddamn week...

And Loki-- if there's a way to bring MODOK to the screen and not make it laughable, I'm willing to give Marvel films the benefit of the doubt at this point.

EDIT: Loki Odinson changed his last post. Damn you, God of Mischief.

I would have preffered if he had simply kept the exact world war 2 costume.  The helmet even had a nice curve on the back which made it less bullet head and more combat helmet.  A nitpick but hey, a suit I loved compared to a suit I'm meh on is a big deal.

I hated the costume from the first promotional still and spy photograph. But in the movie, I realized the only thing I disliked was the helmet. And he spends most of the movie with the helmet off. I justified the costume's existence with two things:

1) Stark makes fun of it

2) Coulson designed it

I don't think Cap's suit is the problem. Like it's been said above, the suit looked much more natural and not distracting at all, once his cowl had been ripped off. It's the helmet -- it was a big misstep in art direction. It's a big blue ball that makes his head look too big, and the rest of his body slight. It's over-designed in some areas, and way under-designed in others. They should have kept the old helmet, but updated it. I really dug the inset wings instead of the stenciled on look from the Captain America film. But the rest of it should have been relatively the same, and not completely redesigned.

I did a quick, rough mock-up to back up my thinking (You can click them to make them bigger).

  VERSUS 

The original helmet was much more interesting, heroic-looking and far less goofy and bulbous.

Even that pic fixes it dramatically for me.  Although personally I miss the leather gloves and boots and the straps built into the suit.  The leather is just a personal preference, and the straps gave it a bit more asthetically interesting texture going on.

Eh. The cowl doesn't really bother me at all. It looked fine in motion. In still shots, maybe it looks a bit goofy, sure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freeman 

The leather is just a personal preference, and the straps gave it a bit more asthetically interesting texture going on.

And so it goes that on this day, May the 10th of twenty-twelve, the chewers inadvertently learned more about Freeman's preferences in the sexual realm than they ever dared dream.

Honestly I still think his cobbled together suit from First Avenger had the best headgear.

I preferred the 1940s suit and hated the Avengers Cap suit from the first online pics.  But it was a big difference seeing Evans in motion, with proper camera angles, lighting, and color timing.  His physique and performance made it work.

What I don't get is how the new Captain America hood works.  Most of the time, it's this loose cloth hoodie thing hanging behind him.  But when he puts it on, suddenly it's a hard crash helmet.  Huh?!?

Sometimes the movies lie to us.

I too preferred the 40's suit but in context i thought the new suit was fine, mystery helmet hood and all.

Presumeably the cloth bit is a just a covering that the hard helmet goes over.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doc Phibes 

What I don't get is how the new Captain America hood works.  Most of the time, it's this loose cloth hoodie thing hanging behind him.  But when he puts it on, suddenly it's a hard crash helmet.  Huh?!?

It's kind of like Peter Parker pulling on his stocking-like Spidey mask, only to have it be seamless in the next shot, with the webbing perfectly lined up with the rest of the suit.

MOVIE MAGIC!

As requested by, well, a person, Avengersblog2.  

I liked the way the new suit looked in the movie. The brighter colors really popped on the big screen. Also, there were a couple of things I thought they did better with the mask/helmet:

-The new mask seemed to fit Evans' face better than the First Avenger helmet. The helmet looked like it would slide down Evans' face in certain First Avengers shots.

-The eyeholes on the new mask are smaller. They were too big in FIRST AVENGER and kind of made Evans look like a raccoon in certain shots

Still, I think the new suit could use a little more bulk and some new paint/detail work to make the mask look less-plastic.

There's a bunch of little things that contribute to his visual issues.  For one, the suit doesn't do him any favors in regards to a heroic looking posture - he often has an appearance of being confined by it, so his shoulders appear pronounced rather than rolled back.  Secondly, the suit is very slimming - he's probably wearing the most form fitting clothing of the group and because of that he doesn't look that much more physically imposing than Hawkeye or Stark in plain clothes.  Continuity aside, they should have made Rogers stand at least a couple inches taller than the other plain clothed humans and bulked the suit up a bit more.  And ya, the suit-attached mask just doesn't look that great.  But this has always been a problem with such masks when attempting to maintain mobility.  The first film sort of side-stepped this issue by it not attempting a one-piece suit/neck/mask and just having a separate helmet.

While on the topic about suits, was there a reason why Thor was sans sleeves and cape while on the ship?

Quote:

Originally Posted by hughJ 

 

While on the topic about suits, was there a reason why Thor was sans sleeves and cape while on the ship?

He was business casual. 

Evans looks considerably more bulked up in his civvies than he did in his uniform.

(Kudos to Chrome's spell check for allowing civvies!)

Quote:

Originally Posted by hughJ 

 

While on the topic about suits, was there a reason why Thor was sans sleeves and cape while on the ship?

Supposedly it was a nod to his earlier costume in the comics where he didn't have sleeves.  And I'm guessing having the cape on probably just looked silly among everyone else that was pretty much in their civvies(!) at the time.

hughj, Some people wear a cape for a...night on the town.  Thor Doth...Wear, his cape to...Save the Town!

I think the issue with Cap's costume is just that it IS a costume. Everyone else's outfit is defined by function (or street clothes, in the case of Banner and Thor).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schwartz 

As requested by, well, a person, Avengersblog2.  

Interesting point about the Hulk. I actually feel like he/Banner does have a personal stake in the conflict with Loki, similar to Hawkeye's in that Loki manipulates his behavior for the worse. Yeah, the magical staff of discord and antipathy doesn't brainwash Banner, but it does lead to him transforming in a non-controlled way, which in turn leads to the Hulk rampaging through the helicarrier and endangering his allies. I imagine that with all of the time and effort it's taken Banner to learn how to let the Hulk out in a "safe" (relatively speaking of course) manner, having Loki push him into a blind, reckless rage is probably quite enough reason to assume a personal beef with the trickster god.

In fact, in my head I chalked up the savagery with which Hulk beats Loki in his Bam-Bam moment to comeuppance for playing with Banner's control over his emotions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by agracru 

 

In fact, in my head I chalked up the savagery with which Hulk beats Loki in his Bam-Bam moment to comeuppance for playing with Banner's control over his emotions.

I didn't get that impression. If he did, you think he'd kept Loki alive instead of continue punching until he was only hitting wet bits of skull into the ground?

Same, Damar. Hulk's lashing out at Loki simply had to deal with the fact that it's Hulk and he doesn't dick around.

I took Banner's change of heart to be related solely to the conversation Stark had with him about the purpose behind what happened. Tony knew he gave him a new outlook and that's why he predicted he'd end up coming back.

Not sure if anyone has posted this yet, but this is my new desktop:

http://i.imgur.com/AMxrU.png

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammerhead 

I think the issue with Cap's costume is just that it IS a costume. Everyone else's outfit is defined by function (or street clothes, in the case of Banner and Thor).

This. To me, Cap's costume looked like something you'd wear for Halloween. Not sure if it was texture, color, helmet design or all of it, but it just looked silly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by agracru 

 

Interesting point about the Hulk. I actually feel like he/Banner does have a personal stake in the conflict with Loki, similar to Hawkeye's in that Loki manipulates his behavior for the worse. Yeah, the magical staff of discord and antipathy doesn't brainwash Banner, but it does lead to him transforming in a non-controlled way, which in turn leads to the Hulk rampaging through the helicarrier and endangering his allies. I imagine that with all of the time and effort it's taken Banner to learn how to let the Hulk out in a "safe" (relatively speaking of course) manner, having Loki push him into a blind, reckless rage is probably quite enough reason to assume a personal beef with the trickster god.

 

In fact, in my head I chalked up the savagery with which Hulk beats Loki in his Bam-Bam moment to comeuppance for playing with Banner's control over his emotions.

I actually thought about that a bit, but decided that it doesn't really play as it is onscreen.  Banner never expresses any anger at Loki (he makes one dismissive comment and that's about it), and when he shows up at the end Ruffalo plays to the shame of what he almost did to Widow than anger that he was manipulated.  And I don't think it makes a ton of sense for the Hulk to be extra mad at the person who is responsible for letting him out to play.

I assume Whedon thought about all of this (even) more than I did, and deliberately decided not to play up that angle.  Probably from a combination of not wanting to give him the same motivation as Hawkeye and feeling that giving him a personal vendetta works against the point of the great "I'm always angry" moment.  It shouldn't take anything special to bring out the Hulk; it's supposed to be a constant struggle to keep him in.  One of the biggest problem with building a traditional superhero movie out of the Hulk is that on some level, Banner and the Hulk's motivations are always going to be at odds.  The Avengers doesn't have time to flesh out separate personalities for both, and I think Whedon realized that Banner's motives become moot once the finale kicks in anyway, which is why he is the only one who doesn't get a scene with Coulson.  

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkatthemoon 

Not sure if anyone has posted this yet, but this is my new desktop:

 

http://i.imgur.com/AMxrU.png

Okay, this is really stupid, but my first thought was that BW's pennant said "Shawarma".  I was a bit disappointed to see it was "Shield"