THE AVENGERS (2012) Post-Release - Page 51

If you'll turn your attention to the 'Likes' on his post you will see I was all over it.

Yeah, Mike's all over me!

 
Or at least his pants.

 

HEY-O!

Yes indeed. Now I feel like part of the gang.

 

Speaking of poor stakes: Bad idea using Dunst. I always wanted Spider-Man to just go ahead and let her die. We all would've been better off. Had she gotten Gwen's death I would've stood up and cheered. And Tom Mix wouldn't have wept.

This isn't a dig at you Shaun H, but I guess I never really understood people's problem with Dunst. I think she's a good actress, cute, and had a nice chemistry with Maguire. Other than being the damsel-in-distress at the end of 3 consecutive movies, I really liked her as Mary Jane. 

I also must add, I am an unabashed fan of the Raimi films, even the flawed third one.

Admittedly she was okay in the first but it escalated quickly downhill after that. But still she bothers me because she's attempting this weird comic voice (I don't know how else to describe it) in the first one that comes and goes and disappears completely with the later movies. She looks like a bag of hammered shit in the cafe attack and they made her so goddamn mopey the latter 2 that it was hard to cheer for them. Gwen was a hollow shell but at least she got to smile.

 

It also doesn't help that I find her acting terribly agitating, whether it's her voice, her facial expressions, or her body language.

 

But, hey, I'm also the guy who doesn't get the Katie Holmes hate in Batman Begins (outside of the fact that she's surrounded by goddamn acting titans, which still doesn't mean she out-and-out sucks), so we'll just call it square.

Shaun, you are dangerously close to "nerdy fugly keyboard commander mocks beautiful successful actress" territory.  Don't be THAT guy!

 

Not at all.  What you're referring to is something ironically rare in superhero movies these days - being a hero.

His conviction, inner strength, moral fibre and drive to simply BE GOOD is why he's been one of my personal heroes since I was 5.

(And just to show my nerd, it's why his shield is the logo on the Ace Of Hearts on my poker hand/Marvel characters back tattoo).

 

I think Spiderman 2 gets this across better, but then it has the luxury of being able to focus and really dig into its main character in a way that this one (there being no "I" in "team up") can't.

 

And you have to post a picture of the tat.

Quote:

 

Oh, I never minded Holmes either, for the same reasons you mentioned. As for Dunst, I guess I always understood where she was coming from in the 2nd and 3rd movies. She's in love with a dude who is emotionally and physically always distant. I'm the sap who teared up at that final scene in 3 with them holding each other's hand.

 

Sounds awesome! Pic please

 

 

I never got the Dunst hate either. She's ok. Plus, she's chained up and wet at the end of part 2. And that's...that's just fine. 

 

Later in that scene she's trying to sneak up on Doc Ock with a board or something, and he slams in the the side with a tentacle - the same arms we saw rip the door of a bank vault earlier. So she's tougher than she looks!

 

That's exactly the beat I was talking about, incidentally.

 

 

Well by your lights most people in the world don't like film, yet every year they go to see them. Paradox! Most people watch movies to have a good time, preferably with a/few friends or a boy or girl friend, spouse, kids, extended family etc. In Avengers the alien invasion is the least interesting or compelling part of the film, and that doesn't bother me at all. Also, I watch James Bond films and enjoy them even though I know Bond will win and stop the villain's plan! (except for SkyFall).

 

Nah, I'm not even close to being that guy. And I ain't fugly. Or a keyboard commander. But I'm surely nerdy. I might've gone off the rail a tad but only if you took me as entirely serious.

 

Also, you said Avengers > Star Wars. If you get to be that guy then so can I!

 

 

A fellow chucker, eh? Well, that makes me happy. I'm harsh on Dunst for some reasons that are out of her control, some that are, and the rest at the casting director. And it's never really been about where she's coming from that was an issue. From the character written her actions and reactions play out accordingly, but that doesn't mean it's fun to watch it.

 

 

Weirdly, I don't have a picture of the tattoo itself (one, but it's not well centred and the light is shining off it so you can't really see) . . . but this is essentially what it is (without matching colours, shading and so forth) across the upper back.

 

I`ll agree to be crazy Avengers guy, if you admit to be being weirdly bias against Dunst, and we both agree to be extremely hot male models.  Agreed?

 

But seriously, I just don't care for her as an actress and have never found her terribly attractive. Nothing more, nothing less.

Why didn't you post a clip from the much much better The Avengers?  Maybe RDJ bitch talking Loki?  Way better scene, plus you don't have to cringe your way through Mark Hamill going "NOonnogongonogononnononononoOOOkmnM!"

That's sweet NZ. I thought I knew my stuff, but who's the dragon? That an Iron Fist thing?

 

Yessum, sir.  You are correct.  Loves me some Iron Fist.

 

If I had a dollar for every time some asshole said my "bat symbol looks feminine", though . . .

grubstreeter, That is the...Mark of the Dragon Shou-Lau Daniel Rand Kai won when he gave the Dragon a bear hug, burning his mark, into Rand's chest, and also giving him the power of the Iron Fist.

 

Sorry, I had red in my ledgerrrrrrzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...

Off-topic, but I've never understood why people direct such undiluted poison at Kirsten Dunst for the Spider-Man films. It's so out of proportion, in addition to being distasteful.

I had a friend in high school who just HATED her because he found her ugly.

That always baffled me as well. She's not a GREAT Mary Jane, but she certainly isn't a *bad* one.

 

The worst part about her in the movie is the hilariously awful stringy wig they make her wear in the first movie. Thank God they wised up and just dyed her hair for the next two.

She reminds me a lot of my sister, so I've never ever been able to relate to her as a love interest of any kind.  But I've always given her a pass because that's not her fault as an actress.

 

To be technical, duke, that's how he defeated Shou-Lau.  But he gained the power of the Iron Fist by plunging his hands into the dragon's molten heart.  Semantics, though . . .

Incidentally, rewatching the (good) X-Men movies lately has made me want some of those characters to appear in future Avengers projects.

 

I know, I know, just like with Spidey it's impossible (and I think Andrew Garfield's Spidey would actually be a better fit for this group than Tobey). But don't tell me you wouldn't get a big kick out of seeing Ruffalo's Hulk do a Fastball Special with Jackman's Wolverine.

 

Actually, it's kinda on-topic right now. But I dislike her beyond just those films, and it's not a simple matter of attraction.

 

 

Don't lie, Candie-boy!

See, just earlier this week in "The Amazing Spider-Man" thread I mentioned how I never really got on board with the Raimi movies because I don't care for the main performances, and I liked Dunst as Mary Jane least of all. Like Shaun, I don't much like her in other movies beyond those either. I also don't find her especially attractive, but that's incidental. 

 

I didn't know there was an "out of proportion" hate for her as Mary Jane. I always assumed I was fairly alone in this, since Raimi's (first two, anyway) Spidey movies are so well-regarded.

Dunstphobes, watch Bring It On right goddamn now.

 

Or Drop Dead Gorgeous. 

Oh, I saw Bring it On (but not Drop Dead Gorgeous). Not my particular cup of tea-- but yeah, it's the best thing Dunst has done. Outside of that-- and Interview witht he Vampire, I reckon-- she's never made that good an impression on me.

 

And as Mary Jane, watching Maguire's Peter moon over her for three whole films, I feel like Michael Bluth: "Her?"

 

Personally, I would have spent more time flirting with Betty Brant.

On another vastly off topic note, the older daughter in the Descendents has been cast as the new Mary Jane.  SHE'S SO HOT.

I never liked Dunst much, or anyone in them. Spiderman is boring. Not enough stakes.

Also, not enough Steaks. 

The NZ Natural, Heart Of The Dragon...You're Right!

FUCK YES. I can't believe more people haven't seen this and it hasn't become some sort of cult classic. It really is hilarious.

 

Or Melancholia. Or Marie-Antoinette. Or The Virgin Suicides. Will never get the hate for Dunst.

I thought she was excellent in Melancholia. Really deserved to be nominated, and maybe win for that role last year. But of course Hollywood politics being what they are, unfortunately that didn't happen. But as Mary Jane Watson? No she was so miscast in that role. The whole idea of Mary Jane is that she is unbelievably insanely hot like there should be no way she ends up with someone like Peter Parker. So while Dunst can look attractive and cute she really seemed off as Watson, Dunst is more Gwen Stacey than Mary Jane. Shailene Woodley is a much better pick for that role by far.

I would move that Dunst was in fact playing Gwen in the first film. It's the Green Goblin storyline, after all. I seem to recall an interview where she said that's who she wanted to play when she signed on.

Yeah that makes sense. Hell maybe in earlier drafts she was actually Gwen Stacey because the writing never really felt too much like Mary Jane at all and maybe the studio forced the change since she was the more popular character, ironically in SM3 when they actually had Stacey she was more like Watson. So okay I'll edit my opinion she was a horrible Mary Jane but a great Gwen Stacey.

Aaaaand nobody liked my idea about more potential crossovers. Again, I know it's nigh-impossible for Spidey, and Fox is attempting to build their own multiverse with X-Men and Josh Trank's Fantastic Four reboot (which, after seeing Chronicle and loving it a great deal, I am more eager than ever to see).

But the idea of Jackman's Wolverine or McKellen's Magneto interacting with the Avengers cast practically makes me salivate.

 

That was always my belief too--that they set out to tell the Gwen Stacey story, cast Dunst, and then decided, I guess, that having the hero's girlfriend get murdered was too uncommercial, so they slapped a red wig on her. Which makes it hilarious that they then cast Emma Stone, born to play MJ, as Gwen.

 

What's sad is that we're likely to finally get the death of Gwen Stacey in the next movie, but all this backing and forthing with the casting and rebooting and the GLAAAVIN pretty much guarantees it'll land with a thud.

 

 

Those are both good observations. One of my gripes about the Raimi films was the "destined to be together forever" quality of Peter and Mary Jane's relationship. Remember, this was before Peter's marriage to her in the comics had been so stupidly retconned out of existence.

 

But I came of age in the Peter Parker: Swingin' Bachelor era and always thought that a fun aspect of the books were the many women Peter did, or potentially could, date. The Black Cat? Betty Leeds might be divorcing her dick husband-- how about her? Sexy blonde Bugle reporter Kate Mercado? Those three chicks who lived down the hall from him? 

 

I know all that kind of thing would be hard to do in the stories Raimi was telling, but I missed it. You got a little of it in the third movie-- but that was on account of the evil black suit, of course. So Mary Jane is his One True Love. Boring. 

  I just realized that Ashley Johnson, she plays the waitress, was in Dollhouse. She played the woman that Alpha kidnaps and imprints Caroline into.  She also had one of the best in that episode.After seeing Echo use her kung fu skills she says,"I kick ass."

 

  I never had a problem with Dunst in the Spider-Man movies. Mary Jane was victim to bad writing in 3. Being jealous of Peter's popularity as Spider-Man and she never really told Peter her problems. She made one attempt, then went to Harry. She was awesome as Claudia in Interview with the Vampire. Aside from being a little older, what I read in the book is what I saw on screen. I also recommend Drop Dead Gorgeous. Much like Starship Troopers. it uses Denise Richards lack of acting skill to its advantage.

 

  The best kind of stake is the one one the grill. You don't have to drink PBR and listen to Roth era Van Halen while you grill it, but it helps.

 

I had this whole idea for the Garfield sequels mapped out in my fanbox where Emma Stone would play both Gwen and Mary Jane. And see it would have been foreshadowed in ASM because Peter has a poster for Hitchcock's Rear Window in his room-- in the second film it'd be Vertigo, what with the dead blonde girlfriend and the lookalike redhead, and in the third, post-Goblin movie he'd have The Trouble With Harry. But nobody listens to me.

If nothing else for the sequel, we have Jamie Foxx as Electro and Dane DeHaan as Harry Osborn to look forward to. That should be interesting.

 

Back to Avengers: we need to think of some kind of role for Neil Patrick Harris. Maybe a villain, to complete the Dr. Horrible connection?

An AIM scientist.